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Wonder if Mark Shapiro is gonna get a call from CC's agent soon, inquiring about wether that spring training deal that Cleveland offered is still on the table. 
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Legend
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Wonder if Mark Shapiro is gonna get a call from CC's agent soon, inquiring about wether that spring training deal that Cleveland offered is still on the table.
no freaking kidding man...
after choking in the playoffs, and now this pretty mediocre/crappy start, this guy is gonna demand santana money? lolz...
i really love mark shapiro, that guy is awesome, the carmona deal is genius, and now i think he's slowing getting cc sabathia by the jewels...
just think what he'd do with a better payroll...
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C.C. is a punk, always has been. He doesn't give a crap about this season or the Indians. The sad truth is no matter how bad he pitches this year some team will still give him $20 million/yr.
He's the pitching version of A-Rod, great when it doesnt matter, sucks when it does. Also both are inconsistent, C.C. has no control of his emtions, A-Rod doesn't either. Both will be the highest paid players in baseball, neither worth half.
He isn't gonna be an Indian because he hates Cleveland, fans can beleive the BS he tells the papers or listen to Shap try and give Tirbe fans hope. But hes gonna be gone just like every other Cleveland Indian star, leave for more mulla.
I just hope and pray the Tribe trades him, which will probably happen because this team isn't gonna be a serious contender. Get something back for him and go with Carmona as our ace, since he is, he's the best pitcher in baseball since the break last July. He will actually only get better, so glad the Tribe spent their dough on him rather than C.C.
Sad stuff, Tribe got really lucky last year with the Royals, Twins, and White sox sucking. This year the Indians have to play a good teams alot, they have no offense, average starting pitching, below average bullpen.
They are hard to watch, but since they went to the ALCS all year we will hear "the Indians will turn it around, they just have to get into their groove".
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Legend
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CC's line for tonight 3.1 IP / 12 H / 9 ER / 2 BB So that makes him 0-2 with an 11.57 ERA on the year. And he should have won the opener (the bats gave him a 7-2 lead that he blew). Amazing! What a statement to make when you want the team to lock you up longterm.  We could trade him....but we won't get much for him (well, maybe a high level prospect). He's in his contract year. Nobody is going to give up a real bat for a rent-a-pitcher, especially if he continues his sucky pitching.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Legend
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C.C. is a punk, always has been. He doesn't give a crap about this season or the Indians. The sad truth is no matter how bad he pitches this year some team will still give him $20 million/yr.
He's the pitching version of A-Rod, great when it doesnt matter, sucks when it does. Also both are inconsistent, C.C. has no control of his emtions, A-Rod doesn't either. Both will be the highest paid players in baseball, neither worth half.
He isn't gonna be an Indian because he hates Cleveland, fans can beleive the BS he tells the papers or listen to Shap try and give Tirbe fans hope. But hes gonna be gone just like every other Cleveland Indian star, leave for more mulla.
I just hope and pray the Tribe trades him, which will probably happen because this team isn't gonna be a serious contender. Get something back for him and go with Carmona as our ace, since he is, he's the best pitcher in baseball since the break last July. He will actually only get better, so glad the Tribe spent their dough on him rather than C.C.
Sad stuff, Tribe got really lucky last year with the Royals, Twins, and White sox sucking. This year the Indians have to play a good teams alot, they have no offense, average starting pitching, below average bullpen.
They are hard to watch, but since they went to the ALCS all year we will hear "the Indians will turn it around, they just have to get into their groove".
i think you are being a bit harsh, just because cc choked in the playoffs, and he's sucking this year, doesn't mean he hates the indians and doesn't give a hoot and a holler about the cleveland fans...
and also, while you say the tribe got lucky that the sox, twins, and royals sucked last year, does that also apply to the red sox, who got lucky that the rays, jays, and o's suck each and every year? bad form, my man, bad form. that comment holds very little water, how about when the cardinals won the world series 2 years ago, playing in probably the most mediocre division in baseball?
i love cc, i hope he stays, he has almost always been classy (other than the time he flipped off the fans, but we probably deserved it) and by all means he has been a good teammate... and as far as the entire picture goes, he's been a horse as far as pitching innings goes, and a strikeout machine, he's also been our ace since how long ago? this guy has been in this organization for 10 years, he's not just going to walk for money, it will be tough, the tribe will offer him something respectable, and it will be up to him if he wants to sacrifice things to go and play in a bigger city (like having a personal life)
with that said, he still choked when it meant the most, 3-1 lead in the alcs, closeout game, in your barn, and he was nowhere to be found, when you add in his other 2 bad starts, he choked, but guess what, guys choke, it's not the end of the world, and i don't hate him for it, and i don't wish him to leave cleveland, he's still one of my favorite indians
but i think he needs to get himself in order, i think he needs to get this extension done, if this is truly something bothering him...
i hope he stays, but i have my doubts, i do know that it will be difficult, because of the way this organization has treated him.
but let's not hate on the guy. he's still our ace, and we should support him.
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Just a general reply ..... My God .... we're 10 games into the season. We've played like crap so far. We're 2 games back. Blow up the team! Trade 'em all ...... and cut the ones we can't trade! Geesh.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Quote:
Just a general reply .....
My God .... we're 10 games into the season. We've played like crap so far. We're 2 games back.
Blow up the team!
Trade 'em all ...... and cut the ones we can't trade!
Geesh.
dude, you forgot the best one
FIRE WEDGE!!!
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dude, you forgot the best one
FIRE WEDGE!!!
Well ..... that one goes without saying. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I'm not going to say that or anything, but I would like an explanation for why Michaels is in RF over Gutierrez. I've been trying to wrap my head around that one and am coming up empty.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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I just hope and pray the Tribe trades him, which will probably happen because this team isn't gonna be a serious contender.
LOL...........kinda early to say that, especially since most people predicted the Indians would be a real contender. I see that we agree as much on baseball as we do football and politics....................Not at all. *L*
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Practice Squad
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B.P. er, I mean C.C. has some serious issues right now. I've never seen a guy who can get to 0-2 in the count so easily but completely lacks the ability to get the third strike without throwing it right in the heart of the plate. I keep waiting for the coaching staff to teach him how to throw that crap that looks good but leaves the strike zone, but I guess he'll learn that from the Yankees pitching coach.
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Fatman keeps pitching like this and we won't have to worry about him giving us the "hometown discount"...haha
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I really don't give a hoot if "we were picked to be good". We aren't, we have 2 good hitters, 2 good pitchers and 2 good relievers. Realistically we have one .300+ hitter in Victor, gGrady will probably crack it too..hopefully. Outside of those two its all average after that. Jhonny is improving, still a .280 hitter at best.
Our offense unfortunatley is dependant on Pronk, again people keeing saying "when Pronk gets back on track". People! It's been 1 1/2 seasons, I think this is Pronk.
I'm not saying we will lose 95 games, I'm sayin we aren't the cream of the crop team predicted. We just don't have the players or leadership, our supposed ACE in C.C. is only concerned with himself and we have no good vets on offense like a Kenny Lofton that can level the high and lows out.
I love what Shap is doing, he done awesome considering what he has to work with, he wasted money on Pronk, but I think we all thought he was for real.
Look you all can keep the homer glasses on forever but this is not a great baseball team, its a good team but not great. We have the toughest division to play in, I'm telling you now this team wil struggle to win 80 games.
C.C. is clearly not with it, his mind is in November when the Mets, Giants, Red Sox, Yankees, Angels, Cubs, and Tigers will be bidding on him reagrdless of his 2008 numbers, teams won't care.
I don't want the team blown up, just sayin get what you can for C.C. before he walks seeing as how this is not a World Series caliber team. IF we have some dough to spend and Ben Fransico / Aaron Laffey pan out we might be for real in 2009.
I'm not saying panic, just face the fact this team is overated because they WAY over acheived last season by walking alot and getting key hits, plus they got a great year from Byrd and Kenny Lofton. Byrd is clearly close to being done. For some odd reason we let Kenny walk and decided to go with the two duds Delluci and Micheals. We also deicided to take these two over a guy in Ben Fransico who hit circles around them in spring training. Also Joe Barowski got extremly lucky last season saving 40 games with an ERA of nearly 5.00. That won't happen again, this year his velocity has dropped again, and his control is terrible. Betancourt is should be the guy, I dunno what else has to happen.
But like I said, this whole season fans will continue to think that this is a great team and will continue to wait for them to "turn the corner".
Just cuz "experts" jumped on the Tribes wagon doesn't mean anything, they are strictly going off what the 2007 team did, which by the way, was never under .500 the entire year and played alot of game against horrific teams in the central. No really bad AL teams this year, AL is pretty even and good.
Hope i'm wrong, hope the Tribe can find a maricle.
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I just hope and pray the Tribe trades him, which will probably happen because this team isn't gonna be a serious contender.
So a team that was 1 game away from the World Series who returns the ENTIRE TEAM is all of a sudden not a contender? And don't give me the bull about "well the teams were worse last year". That means nothing. The Tigers have won 1 game this season. Does that mean they're going to suck? Hell, I don't know and neither do you. It's 2 weeks into the season. But to say that the Indians are not serious contenders is completly ridiculous..especially 10 games into the season.
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What name did you get banned under before, and when are you going to learn about MLB. 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I was wondering about the ban thing too. He uses a ton of board cliches that would take awhile to pick up.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I've never seen a guy who can get to 0-2 in the count so easily but completely lacks the ability to get the third strike without throwing it right in the heart of the plate. I keep waiting for the coaching staff to teach him how to throw that crap that looks good but leaves the strike zone, but I guess he'll learn that from the Yankees pitching coach.
I have noticed that very same tendency with several Indians pitchers. They go up in the count 0-2, 1-2, and don't seem to have the gas for the punchout pitch or the control to throw stuff on the edges. I'm from the Bob Gibson/Roger Clemens school where the 0-2 pitch is gonna be up and in, and you'd best not be digging in or looking to extend your arms. Instead, I've seen CC, Lee, and Betancourt struggle when they are up in the count. With Borowski and Byrd I understand because they just don't have the stuff and need to be pinpoint to succeed, but those other guys have pretty good arms and need to become more aggressive when the hitter is at a disadvantage.
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C.C. is clearly not with it, his mind is in November when the Mets, Giants, Red Sox, Yankees, Angels, Cubs, and Tigers will be bidding on him reagrdless of his 2008 numbers, teams won't care.
I agree with your assesment of what is hppening on the field RGHT NOW for CC, and the rest of the team for that matter, but I think your personal atack on CC as a "punk" is ridiculous. You should stop taking a game so seriously that you feel the need to attack a man in a personal manner because you arent happy with his on the field performance.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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after choking in the playoffs, and now this pretty mediocre/crappy start..
The guy pitched more innings last year than he ever had previously. He won the Cy Young last year. Santana did not.
His slow start may be directly related to the workload from last year.
Every team in the league overpays for pitching.....that is the way of things. Why doesnt he deserve top $?
So i guess in 3 games he went form one of the top 3 pitchers in the AL to a bum??
I think you need to lighten up until we have played 30 or 40 games.
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I was wondering about the ban thing too. He uses a ton of board cliches that would take awhile to pick up.
We go through this every year. Somebody starts out slow, or the team starts slow, and all at once some posters think everybody is a bum
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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The guy pitched more innings last year than he ever had previously. He won the Cy Young last year. Santana did not.
His slow start may be directly related to the workload from last year.
That is a good point that I never thought about. Maybe he just ran out of gas, but hes had plenty of rest only pitching 4 or 5 innings at a time this year(if that many).
I am not making a proclamation of CC as a " choker" just yet, but I am concerned. I am thinking he blew it under pressure last year in the playoffs and now he has chosen to go into this season with the contract issue over his head and RIGHT NOW he is bowing to that pressure it seems. I like CC and I am rooting for him to come through and be the great pitcher that he really is.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Quote:
Quote:
after choking in the playoffs, and now this pretty mediocre/crappy start..
The guy pitched more innings last year than he ever had previously. He won the Cy Young last year. Santana did not.
His slow start may be directly related to the workload from last year.
Every team in the league overpays for pitching.....that is the way of things. Why doesnt he deserve top $?
So i guess in 3 games he went form one of the top 3 pitchers in the AL to a bum??
I think you need to lighten up until we have played 30 or 40 games.
when did i say he wasn't a workhorse? when did i say he wasn't a good pitcher? when did i say he was a bum?
all i said was that he choked when it counted the most... great players have choked in the history of sports before...
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Quote:
I was wondering about the ban thing too. He uses a ton of board cliches that would take awhile to pick up.
We go through this every year. Somebody starts out slow, or the team starts slow, and all at once some posters think everybody is a bum
Exactly GM, it's like clockwork around here. 
I heart winning
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If C.C.'s smart he'll sign the deal with us. He's not gonna get any more on the market if he keeps pitching like this, and IMO he will with the contract on his mind. He's fragile minded...it shows all throughout his career and it showed in the playoffs last year.
He's not cool and calm.
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What name did you get banned under before, and when are you going to learn about MLB.
I would like someone who believes this is a good baseball team to explain to me why, you can't, except that we went to ALCS last year. Well the year before that with essentially the same team we didn't make the post-season.
Last years team never hit a huge slump, they were never under .500 Why? Mostly because the central sucked lasted year, the Twins, Sox, and Royals were bottom feeders. This year its alot tougher and the Indians gained nothing in the offseason the only lost players like Kenny, and got older with Byrd and Borowski.
I can explain to you that we now have 2 holes in our rotation and a big hole at closer. I can also who you we don't have enough bats. The Tribes run last year was great, they got career years out of Byrd and Borowski. We no longer have Kenny who helped this team a great deal.
Both are done, I'd love to beleive in this team but they simply don't have the hitters and not enough pitching. Last year this team walked alot, and got the key hits. This year teams are pounded the strike zone and forcing our guys to hit.
Clearly C.C., is in another land....he won't this bad, but he's slowly went downhill since the break last year.
I don't mind being critized but please back it up with something other than "well they did it last year", cuz this team isn't signifigantly different but its missing it biggest leader, and its missing Paul Byrd 2007.
This team has very few proven good players, its nice to win with a bunch of role players like last season. Thats rare, and it's usually a one time thing.
Hey hopefully the Tribe proves me wrong, like "angels in the outfield" or something. Cheerio! 
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i think you are wrong...
however, i agree with you on borowski, i don't like him, i didn't like him last year, i don't care about the 45 saves, i don't like the 5 era and the fact that he cannot be dominant in that ninth inning role, he's a tough guy, and i think he has a closer's mentality, but there has got to be someone better...
you talk about how we've gotten old with byrd and borowski, yet you are saying we should have kept lofton?
who cares if we were never under .500 last year, we're not even 2 weeks into the season...
i honestly don't think the central is any better than it was last year, chicago looks good right now, but i don't know if their pitching is going to hold up, a couple of good young arms, they are a decent team, but i do believe the tribe will finish better...
detroit is not as bad as this start, but i do think they were overrated coming into this year and i said that before the year started... too much hype, their pitching staff isn't great, and i don't care what kind of lineup they roll out, or if they score a thousand runs or not, PITCHING WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS
minnesota and kansas city will both be at the bottom of this division, well below .500 by the 4th of july, those are not good ballclubs, kansas city will be a pest, but they are still going to lose their share of ballgames...
cc is off to a bad start, maybe it's the looming free agency, maybe he's just in a rut, maybe he's in a bad funk that stems from the postseason, i don't know, but i do know that he is going to get better...
i think our lineup is fine, these guys usually weed out their problems, and they managed to be a very solid lineup last year, despite having a down year from travis hafner, and an average year from grady sizemore... sizemore looks good, and hafner is still not quite there, but he does look better than last year, despite the numbers not being there...
i'm not ready to jump ship on a team when we have not even gotten 2 weeks into the year, we're haflway through april (say that to yourself, halfway through april, april)
the boston red sox are 5-6 by the way, do you think anyone in boston is panicking and saying they aren't going to do squat this year?
i seriously love baseball fans that come out and are ready to stick a fork into a season when it's not even summer yet...
kind of like soup... i remember him going on and on about how the tribe wasn't going to make the playoffs last year, they stink, bla bla blah... dude was nowhere to be found when we clinched...
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Ahhhh, Jhonny!
Sat down too easily there.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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There's 152 games left on the schedule counting tonight's game and as of this morning, here are the division leaders: AL East - Orioles AL Central - Royals AL West - A's NL East - Marlins NL Central - Cardinals NL West - D-Backs We've got a long way to go...
Joe Thomas made Justin Timberlake change his name. He didn't want wusses to have the same initials...
Dawg Talker since 3/26/2005...
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They are about to blow a huge opportunity here.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Joe Thomas made Justin Timberlake change his name. He didn't want wusses to have the same initials...
Dawg Talker since 3/26/2005...
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I heard FC gave up like 8 walks?
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Yeah, 8 walks in only 3+ innings. He walked 4 guys in the third then got pulled...
Joe Thomas made Justin Timberlake change his name. He didn't want wusses to have the same initials...
Dawg Talker since 3/26/2005...
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WTF? Do we even have a starting pitcher this year? 
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Go figure... JoeBo throws a 1-2-3 9th inning when we're down 7-2...
Joe Thomas made Justin Timberlake change his name. He didn't want wusses to have the same initials...
Dawg Talker since 3/26/2005...
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Another game, another loss not even close. Too boot an A's team that we were supposed to be able beat, man I hope your all right that think this team will turn it around.
Right now, this team sucks in just about everything, we just have poor quality bats.
The only way we score runs is through fielders choices and walks, its really getting worse with each game intead of better.
They need a shakeup now to jump start something(won't happen)...get Micheals and Delluci off the field and put Blake in Left and put Marte at third. Cut Delluci and get Ben Fransico up here now along with Barfield. We need hitters bad and both looked the best in spring training.
I would ask the question...how many more losses until the Indians have to switch things up?
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Posts: 5,276 |
Quote:
The only way we score runs is through fielders choices and walks,
And alot of that is Wedge!!!!!!
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882 |
Wedge needs to have a closed door meeting and sit a few guys down. Send a message. "This isn't acceptable."
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,679
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,679 |
Well, since nothing is going to get better all year, then why do you want to call up Francisco when he's batting .182 at AAA?
Joe Thomas made Justin Timberlake change his name. He didn't want wusses to have the same initials...
Dawg Talker since 3/26/2005...
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,177
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,177 |
Quote:
And alot of that is Wedge!!!!!!
I dunno if Wedge has anything to do with it, if your players can hit and pitch they can. If they can't, they can't.
He's not the one striking out, he's not the one blowing saves, Wedge hasn't given up 9 runs in 3 IP. He can only do so much, he needs to light some fires under some bums.
Is he perfect? No, but this teams lack of production is talent, not coaching or managering..whatever. 
Last edited by BrownsFanZ; 04/12/08 11:12 PM.
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