DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cavs..how far will they go in the Playoffs?

Everytime I think the Cavs might be in trouble they seem to rebound. Obviously "the trade" really didn't work out. Delonte West is a nice player, not a true PG, but nice.

We sorely miss Larry's defense, and Gooden actually is better than Big Ben. Wally has been so up and down, he's not shooting like he was supposed to. But we still have LeBron James..that means we are in every game period.

I think we get out of round one in the playoffs, we are still good enough to beat the 76ers, the Wizards will be tough but I still like our mental edge over them.

I think the only way we get through round 2 is if we play Detroit, no way we can beat Orlando or the Celtics. We still need a true PG more than anything, someone to QB this team. IMO Our biggest issue is lack of any purpose on offense except everyone watch Lebron and boobie score.

I think Cavs are one and then done, Lebron can't beat everyone single handed.

Thoughts?

Still kills me that we had no interest in Earl Boykins. Not that he's an all star by any means, nor a full time player, but the man can run the point in the interim when we have absolutely no one who can. And trust me, I like Delonte...but he's not a PG.

I think we were all very spoiled having Mark Price and Terrell Brandon for 10-12 years straight.

Yeah Earl would be nice, kinda like Sam Cassell for the Celtics. Even tho he's what.... 5"6?

They will be out of it in the first rd. I love the team but they are not good enough to go anywhere.

I think Price was drafted in 1986 and Miller was traded after the 2002 season. Yeah, we were definitely spoiled...

It depends on who were matched up with. I dont know whats happened to them

I actually think we have a better chance against the Celtics than we do against the Pistons..I think it really depends on who we play

I think they get to the second round before they are eliminated.

They'll be lucky to win a series. If they play Washington I would bet money they lose. Toronto can beat them. Then playing the Celtics, we could easily get swept. I never liked the trade they made, just lost way too much offense and got almost none in return.

The trade was done to get rid of Hughes. Granted, we took on Wallace contract but the move was done for positioning. It was a gamble on Ferry's part and this team will be MUCH better once we get the contracts off the books, next year, and bring in a stud to go with Lebron. Right now, this team just isn't very good.

this wasn't a bad trade...

it's just that i think it might be asking much to give 4 guys half a season to incorporate themselves into a system...

i've said it before, give delonte west a free pass, i really like the flashes he can show us, but he needs more time to be able to fully take control of this offense... we won't see him really until next season, when he's got a training camp with these guys under his belt... but i love his first step, he's a willing defender (there is no doubt that he cannot be larry hughes on defense, larry is bigger, however, delonte may eventually be better at stopping the chris pauls and tony parkers of the world)

big ben is giving you what he gives you, good solid defense, rebounding, and at times, a cheap bucket here or there... drew gooden was not fit for the cavs, how can you tell? well, how come he was on the floor to start the game, but never on the floor to finish it?

wally has been a disspointment, i don't get it, his shot is just not falling, that should not be a chemistry/new team thing, he's gotta knock down shots, he isn't and his bad defense is being exposed because of it...

joe smith needs to play a bit more, but i think mike brown is saving his minutes for the playoffs, he's a smart guy, he can get you 10-15 points, good rebounding, and very solid defense, he always seems to make the smart play, he's a team guy... he's the devin brown of the frontcourt...

i think this team will win one series, with washington, because i think lebron is enough to do that (he's done it to washington once before, basically on his own) but beyond that i cannot see them beating a detroit or a boston, they just don't play good enough defense right now, and i'm not going to bank on the switch just being flipped when playoff time comes, it's dissapointing, but i think next year is when you'll see this trade really show it's worth...

and by the way, how can anyone call this a bad trade when we got rid of a guy, who we paid 12 million by the way, that was quotes as saying he wasn't happy because the team "wanted him to sacrifice things to win"

drew gooden and donyell marshall will be missed because of their class atittudes, and the way they were received by their former teammates, but i am so glad larry hughes is gone, i never really hated the guy as much as other cav fans, but after those quotes, i lost a ton of respect for him, he is not a winner.

But dont you think that we lose in the transition after this trade? Seem's we are slower after a bucket in getting reset?
As for Wally.... Not sure what is going on there, Mental perhaps?

Cavs will be lucky to win even 1 game in the first series.

I dunno I think thats alittle extreme, you can atleast count LB James for a win.

Personally, I think the trade really didn't do much for us, we traded overpaid trash for overpaid trash. If Dan Ferry, who in my opinion is the worst GM around, can somehow have his braintrust get a deal done this offseason for some PG then this team will have sucess.

Danny has done nothing but bring in bad talent around LeBron, I love the arugment that Danny is a great GM because the Cavs went to the Finals. Wrong, the Cavs went to the finals purely because of Lebron James who the Cavs lucked into the draft, he was the last great move the cavs made.

Danny is so stupid by making a trade just to make a trade....which again took on more money, rather than just keep what we had and get quality players this summer.

Danny has failed in bringing in quality talent, plus the Cavs screwed up with Boozer and not doing enough to get Micheal Redd to sign. If Boozer is on the 2007 team we are the champs.

I have no idea who the Cavs can get at PG, PF, or SG for the future...I think Boobie should the starting 2 gaurd from here out. We'll see how Danny does, he has to do something this summer to help LB James.

Problem is there aren't many decent PG's on the block any more.

Wow, full of hate are we?

Ferry did what he had to do...remember, before we got LH, Donyell and Jones, we had NOTHING on this team, other than LBJ and Z.

He did draft Boobie Gibson, who so far is going to be a very solid contributor on this team. He has gotten a decent PG, who is young and plays good D in Delonte West. Sure he screwed up in getting Larry Hughes, but what was the other alternatives? Remember, Redd's pride was hurt because LeBron didn't pick him up at the airport, Carlos Boozer robbed this team and a blind man by asking to be out of his contract and having an under the table deal with Utah. That really isn't Ferry's fault.

But people will just have blind hate sometimes, and that I cannot help.

Bigbaddawg,

Don't even waste your time presenting facts to this guy, he is clueless

You think that is bad..........you should read his Pure Football nonsense.

first of all, the boozer fiasco happened when jim paxson was running the team, not danny ferry, he was still in san antonio learning how to put together a championship ballclub...

danny ferry is not the worst executive in the league... um isiah thomas anyone? are the knicks so bad that we don't count them? not to mention michael jordan, who isn't exactly making great moves down in charlotte, after not exactly making great moves over in dc...

i think he learned from the hughes mistake, the best guy we probably would have gone after is joe johnson, who isn't exactly lighting up the league, and doesn't exactly play a whole lot of defense

people talk about michael redd, and that the cavs didn't treat him right, that's garbage... it was the 20 million more that milwaukee was allowed to offer, plain and simple, don't read into it, 20 million folks, 20 million.

and honestly, even if you hate mike brown, you can't blame ferry for him either, because brown was hired before ferry was (as strange as that sounds)

danny ferry did a hell of a job drafting boobie gibson, and so far has not wasted any draft picks, which may not be worth a ton in the nba, especially when you make the playoffs every year, but they do give you at least a chance to bring in a quality guy, just look at san antonio, and their draft history past the first round...

not to mention, that when this trade was pulled, we actually bettered ourselves with our cap situation for next year and beyond, the cavs actually picked up more money in expiring deals next year...

so really dude, think about the future, and not just about now...

because this trade isn't the only reason the cavs are not looking like they did last year, injuries have a lot to do with it, not to mention 2 guys in your rotation holding out to the point where they actually missed games (and by the way, how about giving danny ferry credit for that, standing his ground and not overpaying for 2 guys who aren't exactly all-stars)

give the guy his due, i think he's doing a pretty good job... people ripped him for bringing in hughes, marshall, and jones, but nobody ripped him right when those deals were made, those guys underachieved (marshall and hughes more than jones) and when people called for those guys to be shipped out, ferry did just that, and when these new guys came in, nobody ripped ferry, but now that it's not exactly looking great, people again are all over danny ferry...

and if anyone knows how the nba and their salary cap structure works, you know that he's been handcuffed these past 2 years, as far as bringing in players via trade..., but now, those days are over, and the days of the cavs being in great shape for a major trade are soon ahead

Lebron,

Thanks for taking the time to present some facts, unfortunately I was too lazy since I did not think it was worth the effort with Brownsfan Z

j/c

Cavs down 2 to the Heat entering 4th quarter. Yes, the HEAT!

I think that we got a lot older with this trade. And we will be out in the first or second round due the teams unfamiliarity with one another. We basically went out and traded some young guys that had enough chemistry to get us to the finals last year--for a young PG and some aging, past-their-prime vets.

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think ben wallace still has a few good years ahead of him

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I disagree, I think Wallace is pretty much done as any kind of difference maker. Sure, he can still play competitively, but his days of dominating the game on the defensive end were over a couple years ago.

Danny Ferry has done a pretty stellar job if you consider the hand he's been dealt. Rather than look at it from a high-level overview, and calling him junk ... you should take a look at all the moves he made at what everything was like at the time he made them. Probably his biggest mistakes have been doing things that the media, Lebron or the Fans were clammoring for.

First off ... Paxson destroyed this team. He let Boozer screw him over and walk, and he blew a good portion of our draft picks for junk like Jeri Welsh and had our team loaded full of bad players with long year/high salaries like Eric Snow and Ira Newble. Basically he had no draft picks, no tradable players and no real talent to help Lebron.

The one thing he did have was a little bit of cap space. With that he courted Michael Redd and Ray Allen. Both ended up signing with their original teams, since the NBA Collectibe Bargaining Agreement allows the original team to offer more money. That left Larry Hughes as the top free agent. The aforementioned Media, LeBron and Fans all insisted that Ferry do SOMETHING in free agency to "prove" that he wanted to help LeBron win. So he went out and got Hughes ... as well as Donyell Marshall and Damon Jones. The last two being the best 3 point shooters on the market at the time. Ferry arguably got 3 of the top 5 free agents on the market, but it was one of the weakest free agent markets in years. If he had told the media and fans to be patient ... he might of netted Steve Nash a year later, but everyone was demanding action NOW, and the three free agents he got hurt the team now.

Later that year, I think he picked up Flip Murray who was an instrumental role player in helping the Cavs get into the playoffs. Probably one of his more under-rated signings.

In 2006, he was finally able to have his first draft (thanks to Paxson). For their first round pick, they intended to pick Daniel Gibson. But Shannon Brown was considered a top 15 pick, and he fell into their lap, so the took him instead. A few picks later, they were able to get Gibson anyway, and he's been one of the best picks in years for the Cavs. (outside of Lebron and Boozer)

In 2007, he had no draft picks again, compliments of Paxson, and also no cap space, compliments of Paxson and everyone's insistance that he go all-out in the 2005 free agent market.

So this Winter everyone INSISTED that he make a trade again. He had no viable trading peices other than Gooden, Newble and Gibson. Somehow he got a trade down that A) let us keep Gibson, and B) Didn't mess up our cap space one bit.

So even if this trade (that everyone else insisted we make) doesn't pan out ... we haven't hurt ourself one bit in the long run. We only lost Ira Newble's salary coming off the books this year ... and face it, we aren't going to get a stellar free agent this summer for ~3 million. And we defered that salary to next year ... meaning we have $30 million in expiring contracts next year and something like $25 million the year after. We can basically trade for whoever we want to next year and the year after! Which in itself is brilliant. Ferry made the trade that he didn't necessarily WANT to do, but everyone else wanted ... yet he has put us in GREAT position for trading for the next two years.

So outside of the 2005 free agent class that everybody wanted us to blow our wad on, and the 2007 trade deadline that everybody implored Ferry to make a trade by ... what exactly has Ferry done wrong?

... and your answer better not be some version of, "Why couldn't he trade overpaid/long contract players A and B, underachieving player C, and a high non-lottery draft pick next year for superstar D.?"

I think we'll get out of the first round but barring a god like performance from LBJ, I don't see how we can beat Boston. Especially without homecourt.

Did Danny sign Larry Hughes? He's the one that spent the dough on Hughes and Gooden. Instead of absolutely doing everything they could to get Micheal Redd the Cavs ASSUMED he would just love to play with LB James, its well documented what the Cavs did, sending Eric Snow to meet with him.

The Cavs(Paxson) obviosuly screwed us before him w/ the Boozer ordeal, but Ferry has not brought in talent to surround James.

He made this trade just to make a trade and the results speak for themselves. I wouldnt fire the guy, gotta give him one more round of dealing. But based on history he makes poor decisions.

What Ferry should have done was move Gibson and the other trash, plus our picks, for Mike Bibby.

What ever you say you can, Ferry made a trade because of media and fan hype, that is a serious red flag.

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You think that is bad..........you should read his Pure Football nonsense.

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It's quite flattering you took the time out of your day just to bash my opinions.

If the Cavs traded Gibson, LeBron would want out immediately.

Gibson is Robin to LeBron's Batman.

Unfortunately, LeBron is missing his Nightwing, which is what he really needs. Boozer would have been that guy. (For those who don't know, Nightwing is the original Robin who grew up to become is own hero...just useless comic trivia I learned last quarter).

The team's not as bad as their play is indicating...personally I would have kept the other group instead of this group because I thought we were pretty good when firing on all cylinders...but I see the bigger picture beyond just this season.

One step back, two steps forward, Carmen Policy coined that term but I actually believe it with this bunch.

I know theyre friends, but Boobie almost has to be in any deal where the Cavs get something in return. I like Boobie, he's a great shooter, might develop into a star down the line. But if we could move him and dead weight to get a 4-5 star PG, the Cavs and Lebron would be nuts to pass.

And as far as James wnating out, he's under contract, hopefully the cavs make moves that help them win championships rather apease Lebron. If the deals do both great. I think any honest Cavs fan realizes unless the cavs win multiple championships James will leave for New York, why worry about him, we got him till 2011.

Kobe made a big stink, Lakers did what they wanted and it turned out ok id say. I surely hope that Lebrons friendship with Boobie wasn't the big factor in us not being able to land Bibby.

I like Boobie but.... Bibby, Sasha, James, Gooden, and Z. Andy, the Jones on the bench. Thats a great team. West, Wally, James, Big Ben, and Z. Just seem to get in each others way, no chemistry.

This team so desperatly needs a real PG to unleash James beyond what we have seen and allow us to run plays rather than just give it to James and everybody else watch.

I don't know how to fix it, but clearly whats out there isnt working.

Okay, just my general thoughts on this topic.

First, and foremost, I pretty much agree with Excl's post in regards to Danny Ferry. I will leave that part alone as I think Excl hit that stuff right on the head. Nice work, Excl, you are right on the money

In regards to this basketball team and their performance on the court, it has been very disappointing. It has been over a month and a half since the trade, so the players have had plenty of time to adjust to the system. No more excuses. Let's remember this is basketball, not rocket science. At this point, I think a lot of the issues start with Mike Brown. The guy is not progressing as a coach, and to be honest, the players do not seem to respond anymore to the defensive approach. Offensively, the man is clueless, and I think he even realizes that. When I mean we he is not progressing as a coach, I mean that we are having the same issues we had when he took the job some 3 yrs ago. Mike Brown doesn't have a clue with his rotations, NOT A CLUE. I watch all of our games and honestly, I don't even know how many minutes Sasha will see in the playoffs. I do know one thing, and it's that we have ZERO chance against Detroit and Boston without Sasha being a factor. He is the only guy we have that has the quickness to guard Rip or Allen. We still sit around and watch LB, we still have a lack of urgency to put teams away, and as individuals, guys are not really getting better. Sasha is a great example. Where has he really improved in the past 2-3 years? AV still makes the same dumb errors on offense. Even Delonte lacks a ton of confidence out their. He is a good ball player, but he needs to play with confidence and assert himself early in games.

As I sit and watch the Nets game the other nite, I see Boobie Gibson looking like Jason Kidd out their in the fourth. I see glimpses of a basketball team that is running, moving the ball, having fun. I don't think people realize what a great talent Boobie is, and he has the potential to put the ball on the floor and be a hell of a creater. YOU DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT MOVING HIM. I just have my doubts at this point that Boobie will ever be more than a jump shooter under Mike Brown.

I think we all need to realize how much LB has bailed this team out. Sure, other guys contribute, but in order to beat Boston in round 2, it's going to take a gargantuan effort from 23. I like us to beat the Wiz in 7, due to us having 23, as well as our entire team will be fired up because of the DeShawn Stevenson comments about LB.

We shall see....

That would be my guess as well....I just don't see us getting another deeper into the Playoffs considering their lack of both healthy players and set rotations....