DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Savage conducting chemistry experiment in Cleveland

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I cannot agree with that. For the first time in years when our QB dropped back I expected good things. Stats can be misleading, but DA numbers tell a story of success.

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These "numbers" you speak of ARE "stats!

I just know the feelings of some long time Browns fans that I speak with. Their confidence level far more mirrors mine.

At any rate, neither of us know for sure at this juncture. If you believe you do? Good luck with that.

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there is no reason to think BQ can be better or even close to as good as DA was last year.

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This I disagree with... there is a reason to believe he can be at least that good... that's why he was projected top 10, that's why we gave up what we did to get him... You think we traded up to get him and didn't think he was good enough to go 10-6 and be a pro-bowl alternate? Maybe not in his rookie year, but I guarantee you they had every reason to believe he was capable of that and more...

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The potential to have great touch on his short passes.

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The potential to scramble when needed and throw on the run.

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The potential to not only complete passes, but place them so that if our WR doesn't catch it, no defender has a shot at it. (Accuracy/ball placement)

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In the limited time we saw him, these things he DID show!

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He has the overall smarts and skill set to be a "franchise NFL QB".

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As I said earlier, DA has a strong arm and a quick release. What else have you seen that he does to give you cause to believe he has the qualities to reach "the next level" in the NFL?

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You know, at times I'm not 100% sure that some people even believe what they themselves type.

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There are no garuntees with EITHER of these two QB's.

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More raw talent

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scrambles better

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I actually saw WR's drop passes looking SHOCKED that the ball actually hit them in the hands IN STRIDE!

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But if it's left to some, we'll never find out huh?

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The future was brite for my Browns last year but all of a sudden it has gotten dimmer

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How so? On paper, our recievers got better, our d-line got better. We lost a bit in the secondary, perhaps...but what made it dimmer?

The fact that Quinn isn't starting? If so, do you see how little sense that makes?

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JC

I don't know how anyone could have watched every play of every game last year and be certain that Anderson is the guy.

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A reflection of what?

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A reflection of his accuracy and what I think may be a career limitation on DAs part (again though, he is young and I don't have a crystal ball). That response of was in context of questioning his accuracy.

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These "numbers" you speak of ARE "stats!

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Huh? Yes..OK.....and they do tell story that we have seldom heard in Cleveland in a long time. When was the last time that our offense threw the ball like we did last year and score as prolifically? It is that very reason that I had much more confidence in a successful outcome when DA stepped back to throw than in so many years past.

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At any rate, neither of us know for sure at this juncture

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I will tell you right now that if I think the better player is on the bench



Based on what? Preseason games?


Based on whatever information I have... last season, the team they were with last season, their college career, the last few games, whatever information I have... afterall, it is just my opinion and I wasn't speaking directly about BQ and DA...

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I have a fear that DA is going to do just enough to keep his job but not enough to convince me that he is the guy and we are going to be sitting here in the same place next year only with major salary and hold out implications on the line......



So..............you think that Savage, RAC, Chud, and Rip want to play the worse QB? Un--freaking--real. You guys make no sense!



You know what is really un--freaking--real? The lack of reading comprehension on this board... Did I say anything even remotely close to what you think I said? No, I did not.

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So why did Charlie Frye start ahead of DA last year in week 1? Because he's better? Because he looked so much better the previous year? Because he looked so much better in practice? Because he looked so much better in preseason? Or because our coaches made a mistake in judging performance?

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Finally, a decent proposal. Perhaps they chose Frye because he looked better in camp and preseason games. Perhaps he had a leg up because he was the incumbent. Perhaps, his higher draft status made him the more desirable choice.

But............did you ever consider why there was a competition in the first place and why there really isn't one this year? LOL

Did you ever even stop and think that they pulled the trigger quicker than snot froze on Tucker's mustache in the Buffalo game?

Did you ever consider that they were waiting for that opportunity and took it......and then quickly banished Frye to Seattle?


To the rest of this madness that followed:

The rats sure jumped out of the woodwork as soon as they smelled blood. And you are going to make what should be an enjoyable and growing season into pure hell. All because you wanna see your guy. You can spew your BS all you want. I know what you are up to. Seen it too many times. Your inane and uneducated reasons are going to hurt this team.

And if DA were to get hurt and BQ were to take over.......watch the excuse parade begin. The line really isn't that good. Too many guys are aging and need replaced. Lewis will have lost it. K2's knees are killing him. Joe is too old. Edwards is still good, but how can you expect him to produce big numbers again when all the other skill positions, except QB, have digressed. Oh..........and the schedule. You'll say that DA wouldn't have won a game.

You are the same group that defended Timid. You know, the guy who has been out of the league as soon as the Browns shipped his sorry ass out of Cleveland. You all don't know squat about QBs or even the game. Quit acting like you do.

Yeah, I know I do act like that. But, I do know the game. I only speak to a few things on this board. Football, basketball, and education. You don't see me acting like an expert on other topics. Stick to what you know. It's okay to have opinions and be a fan, but don't act like you know more than the Brown's coaching staff and Savage.

Believe me.............if the competition between both QBs is close, the nod will go to BQ. They have more invested in him. The fans and media favor him, and don't think that in a business as big as the NFL that marketing isn't considered.

DA is going to have to be decidedly better than BQ to play. I'm not sure if he will be, but at this point in time.............he obviously is!

Now............take your little bruised and offended egos.....regroup.......and come stronger, because not one of you have said a thing that adds up to WHY BQ is better than DA at this particular point in time. You're talking . And while it may stick to a wall.........it ain't sticking w/this guy.......who can comprehend what he reads.

Have a nice day.

Gotta admit.........this is a lot of fun.

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What happens when you have the "normal injuries" that generaly occur? How does DA scramble? How well does he throw on the roll out? Because in a "normal season" with "normal injuries" this will come to pass.

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Big concern. No arguement there.

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Also, DA played pretty well in a lot of games when it turned into crunch-time. He didn't crumble like a Keebler cookie "every time" we got to "crunch-time/make or break situations". That was one game that gets blown out of proportion badly.

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I disagree. It was "the only 'make or break scenario" he's been under. If you feel that the pressure of such situations do not have an adverse effect on certain people, then we simply strongly disagree.

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It all depends on your definition of "make or bread scenario". To me it's a game to game thing. If you wish to lay it all on DA for the cincy game then that's your perogitive. But to me there was a lot more going on in that game other than DA thowing picks in the wind. Palmer threw half as many passes and threw half as many picks. That's the kind of game plan, in hindsight, Chud should have called.

In my definition of "make or bread scenario", or, "crunch time" I feel dude played pretty well when the chips were down. If you want to define it as only with playoff implications at hand I still find it difficult to lay all the blame for that cincy game on DA. Apparently you don't.

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Sorry, but I've seen Bart Starr, Fran Tarkenton, Brett Favre, John Elway ( DAMN IT! ) win and excel in just as bad or worse conditions. We can play the excuse game all we like, but in make or break situations, I don't see DA having "it".

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If you're looking to compare DA to some of the best in the game after he started his first season with a team who has only their second winning season in nine years that may be a bit premature. Fourty years of watching this game or not, that's very soup-like if you can stand the reference.

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He was also fairly innacurate for the majority of the season and far below average in the league in accuracy. I know most of the people I generaly watch the games with cringe every time he drops back, me included.

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Accuracy? Again, no arguement there.

Cringe? How many times did you cringe leading into a TD play? 29 times? DA was 5th overall in TD's. That would be scoring for those who are following along.

30th overall in Comp. Pct and 5th in scoring. Something in that should tell you that Comp. Pct. is not the end-all, tell-all stat. DA's Comp. Pct. was a dismal 56.5. So you're right about that. By the way, just for a reference as to what I'm saying, Superebowl winning quarterback Eli Manning's Comp. Pct. was 56.1.

Another stat that gets tossed around as a big deal is the QB rating. DA's was 82.5 while Eli's was 73.9.

You see, it's not ALL on the QB. When you have a solid defense, one who can stop the run, get pressure on the QB, and get the opposing offense off the field, you can win some games, even the Superbowl, with less than stellar statistics in some of those areas in which many fans give great credence.

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I guess it's a one way street. When we win, some claim, "he had success". But when we lose, it's a "team thing". But you'll have that from time to time.

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When we win it's a team win. When we lose it's a team loss. When the QB plays bad there's not much one can do to sugar-coat it. But that doesn't lay the loss squarely at the QB's feet. There's just too may plays in a game, on both sides of the ball, to blame any one player for a win or a loss. If the QB has a spectacular come from behind win some people have to mind the fact that passes don't get completed for TD's without a total team effort. There's a lot going on that the other ten guys are responsible for.

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A "premiere passing team" last season? Are you trying to insinuate that the Bengals were a "premire passing team" last season? I would certainly hope not. Their 2007 season was fairly dismal on the O side of the ball. Well, with the acception of their first game with us.

But Palmer had an off year. He was NOT his "usual self" in the 2007 season even on "non windy days". Please refer back to the above where I, and you too if you are willing to admit it, have seen MANY QB's have GREAT performances in "crunch time" in just as adverse, if not worse conditions.

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26 TD's, an 1100+ yd receiver and a 1400+ yard receiver, over 4100 yards, yeah, that's pretty good. If I was mistaken for calling an offense what was in the upper 3rd of all major passing catagories then, my bad. Passing because that's what I called them, passing offense.

Also, check Palmer's stats, I wouldn't call it such a "down year" really. But I guess that's subjective.

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You can take those 4 interceptions DA threw and put them up against defensive players who would admit that had not the defense made these mistakes or those mistakes the end result would have been different. It's a team. It's more than the one guy the television camera focuses on every game.

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You just keep telling yourself that.

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You just keep watching the player on camera.

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So you do not believe that the "four int's" made the difference in a W or L in that Cincy game?

Now to a degree, I agree with you. I don't blame the fact we did not make the playoffs strictly upon DA. Our D was extremly porous at best the first half of the season. Chud could have had a better game plan that day. All of these elements and more are deciding factors as to wheather we made the playoffs or not.

But the fact remains that when "the heat was on" and DA had his chance to BE "the deciding factor", he fell flat on his face with those four int's.

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Sure he did. But when you're being told to throw the ball all over the field on a very windy day, something that was wisely not asked of Carson Palmer, you're begging for trouble, and they got it with that gameplan.

"All those elements and more are deciding factors as to wheather we made the playoffs or not"... but we'll just lay it all on DA anyway.

As I said in my response to BrownsFanZ who won't reply to me for whatever reason, that was one game. If the defense steps up and helps us win one of our other 5 losses that one game, "THE deciding game", doesn't even come into play. "THE deciding game" becomes a non factor itself.

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And DA is "the only guy" on our O to handle the ball on every snap.

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Fourty years of watching this game and you forgot about the center.

And you forgot he only handles the ball on offense snaps.

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So when you give your QB a consistant pocket and he throws four int's, you blame others?

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No. Hell no. You expect a TD evey time he makes a throw. You expect him to compare with Bart Starr, Fran Tarkenton, Brett Favre, and John Elway. If everythings so perfectly set up for him his TD's should still way overcome any INT's. Hell, that is only 4 passes.

Has none of the affore mentioned Hall of Famers ever thrown 4 picks on a windy day in their first year starting? Brett Favre is famous for throwing more picks than just about any QB in NFL history. He's lost playoff games doing just that.

It happens. It happens when you are inexperienced in big games and you press. It happens when you are highly experienced in big games and you press. DA definately needs to cut down on the picks or that kid who's breathing down his neck is going to take over his roster spot.

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My opinion of DA, lays squarely with the play of DA, not W's and L's.

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That's the proper way to look at it in my opinon.

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You see, I'm of the opinion, and having played sports all through high school, I've seen it first hand MANY times, that when "the heat is on" some people step it up a notch. Their competative juices flow. They actually "play better" under such stress and pressure.

Then I've seen "the chokers". Who, when the heat is on, they crunble under the pressure of it. Now you may see the logic in this, or you may not. But please at least think about this and consider it........................

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I'm not 13 years old. And I have my own set of eyes. What I saw out of DA was when the heat was on he played exceptionally well. At one point I compared him to a closer who doesn't get fully focused until he's put 2 guys on. Then he closes the game for the win.

DA often seems to start cold and we've gotten into a pressure situation in which his slow start played a part. But at one point he steps up. Look at the 3rd and long throws he made consistantly. Circus catches? Some. Ball placed where it could be caught? On every catch that was true. Tell me you didn't see that out of him consistantly. We had more successful 3rd and longs than I can remember for quite some time. Those are pressure situations.

DA does play better in pressure situations in my opinion. I think he's shown that over and over. It's those pressure situations in which we came up successful that lead me to belive that he dosen't fold under pressure.

"THE deciding game" seems to be the single game that you're focused on and calling it crumbling under the pressure because he wasn't able to execute an arguably flawed game plan.

It's one game that you seem to be pointing out as the tell-all that he is a choker. And is that because it was our last chance to get into the playoffs? We had 5 other chances to win a game that would have gotten us into the playoffs. But apparently they don't count. I though every game did. Again, my bad.

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Now let's fast forward to nearing the end of the season. How much did the pressure raise? Let's take a look at it for a minute. First, let's look at DA's "long term career". He knew he would be a FA at seasons end. He knew that in those last few games, it could garner him a 5 to 6 year deal as a "franchise QB' making anywhere from 45-60 million dollars.

He knew that by playing "lights out" there would create a higher value and competition for his services that would command a high price for a LONG time! He also knew that by performing well in the Cincy game, he would have made the playoffs which in essence would show that he could handle the heat when the pressure was on to other teams that could drive his value even higher.

Once the stress and pressure elevated to that juncture, we saw the results. He had yet one more chance to redeem himself to drive up his stock, the pro bowl. One last "at bat" to raise his stock which could mean the difference in millions of $$$ to DA. Yet once again we saw the results when "the REAL heat was on".

You see, I'm not trying to use DA as a scapegoat here. Actually, I'm simply breaking down how he performed in the face of increasing pressure and adversity when such performances were critical to his wallet and career.

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You've watched this game for forty years and played it all through HS and think that is what is going on in the mind of a player who is trying to win the next game?

I'm sorry Pit, but that is just one hell of a load of mental masterbation.

I don't care who you are, that there's funny right there.

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Now you can explain that away by weather if you like. Although I've seen MANY "good QB's" play VERY well in as bad and worse conditions.

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I remember a Browns/Bengals game when Bernine & Co. couldn't complete a pass to save their lives due to the wind, the cold and the rain and the muddy field. Meanwhile, Boomer & the Boys were playing toss and catch against us almost at will. I understood it's hard to throw and catch under those circumstances but then, how in the heck was cincy doing it when we couldn't? It happens. That's all. It happens.

I'll say it again for you and any others who might not understand. I am not defending DA because I feel he is our only option at QB. I just feel that for as good a season as we've had, with the best QB performance we've seen from the Browns in 9-freaking-years, it's hard for me to stand by when he is being dissed as our problem. What problem?

Personally, I would like to see Quinn win the job. That would mean he's playing better than DA so it would be an upgrade. And I'm all for an upgrade at any position.

I'm pretty sure that Quinn can do some things that DA can't. But I'm also pretty sure that DA can do some things that Quinn can't. Plus, he did one hell of a job for us in '07 and I'll defend any Browns player who had that kind of season for us but gets the raspberry from the fans anyway.

If Trent Dilfer was backing up DA I'd bet that everyone would be completely estatic over DA's play. That would be the talk. Not the fault finding mission some are on now.

I really believe that the fault finding mission is fueled by the fact that our Round 1 draft pick is waiting in the wings and fans want to "see what he can do".

I have no idea who our QB is going to be come game one in '08. I am even less sure of who will be our startng QB going into game one in '09.

But I'm sure glad we kept them both as that will give us more time to make an evaluation and a more accurate decision on who will be our quarterback of the future. Right now I like the QB situation we're in. Anyone want to trade this situation with any other QB tandem we've trotted out on the field in the past 9 years?

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And good night Mrs. Kallibash, wherever you are............

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Mrs. Calabash is here with me bemoaning the fact that you spelled her name wrong.


...damn, I'll argue about anything won't I?

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Just food for thought...if DA really was kicking Quinn's butt, why would Mel Kiper say the Browns are even happier with Quinn now than they were when they drafted him?

Doesn't make sense...

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I just know the feelings of some long time Browns fans that I speak with. Their confidence level far more mirrors mine.

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Since when has the majority ever been right?


"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it."



Sorry my friend, I couldn't resist.

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Then this off season we trade away the remaining top draft picks we have to shore up the D to make a run this season. This should make it obvious that the bulding is over. This is a huge mistake in my eyes. I don't mind winning now but to do it for a reason like saving Romeo and Phil's jobs are not what us as fans should be all about.

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I always get a chuckle when peope like you bring up his preseason performance and one series during the season as some kind of proof. We just don't know enough about either guys. You want to throw DA out with the bath water...Fine. You might be proven right. He might have had his best year as a player last year. For you to think that way I find crazy.

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The rats sure jumped out of the woodwork as soon as they smelled blood. And you are going to make what should be an enjoyable and growing season into pure hell. All because you wanna see your guy.

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Now............take your little bruised and offended egos.....regroup.......and come stronger, because not one of you have said a thing that adds up to WHY BQ is better than DA at this particular point in time. You're talking . And while it may stick to a wall.........it ain't sticking w/this guy.......who can comprehend what he reads.

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Trent Dilfer anyone?

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I'm not 13 years old.

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I'm going to give my general opinion on this subject. While DA may not have played at a lights-out-All-Pro level, he played well enough for us to win 10 games and come within a game of making the playoffs. We did this while having the worst defense in the NFL. Can someone tell me the last time the team with the worst defense in the NFL went 10-6?

Everyone on here knows that DA has the ability to make every throw on the field. His arm strength is right up there with Brett Favre's. He has made throws that no one in their right mind could expect someone to make. DA can thread the needle just as well as anyone. Where he lacks in accuracy is on the short, simple throws. We know that this problem has nothing to do with the arm because we see him make some of the most accurate throws possible. We know that this is a matter of consistency and is fixable.

We have seen time and time again that DA has an extremely quick release. Despite us having a great O-Line (hearing that never gets old) there will be times where that will be very important. Another thing that we can't over-look is that DA has great size. He's 6'6" 230 lbs. That sounds great to me.

Also, DA seemed to show a lot of improvement as the year went on. There were times where you could tell that he wanted to go deep but it just wasn't there. He would then dump it off. IMO this is where he improved the most. Yeah he threw 19 picks last year, but Brett Favre, who is one of the best QB's ever, has the record for most interceptions in a career. And like any other young QB you would expect him to improve a lot more.

Now lets see what we have in BQ. With BQ there is an unproven quarterback with eight career pass attempts. Quinn has a strong arm but no where near as strong as DA's. There were concerns with BQ's accuracy coming out of college. Personally, I never saw it, but you would think that there would be some truth behind it. Quinn was known as being a smart QB and it could easilly be argued that this is DA's biggest weakness.

Like DA, Quinn has very good size. I doubt that anyone on here would argue that Quinn isn't more mobile than DA. That is a given. With our old O-Line that would have been important to me, now I care more about pocket presence. DA almost never leaves the pocket. BQ was a very good pocket passer at Notre Dame and you would think that he would be in the NFL as well.

My basic point is that with DA we know what we have. He is a guy who can help us get 10 wins with the worst defense in the NFL. He earned the starting job last year. We have no idea what we have in BQ. It can be argued that DA made a lot of mistakes last year and hindered our team. I think that our defense hindered our team a lot more than Anderson did. While I am no where near sold on Anderson, at least we know what he can do for us. And that is give us a very respectable record with (yes, I'm going to say it again) an awful defense.

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Trent Dilfer anyone?

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Trent Dilfer...only one.

To pull off what the Rats did you need a defense like they had. They were arguably as good or better than the '85 Bears. Raise your hand if you think they'll be saying that about our 30th ranked defense any time soon.

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Funny, I've seen a ton of people deeply involved in football and with self-proclaimed football genuis be dead wrong about many football related issues and about decisions made on players. I do think Phil is making all the right moves with this, and my guess is that he has just as many questions about DA as some of us, with our piddly little football brains do. They have to see if the positives we saw out of DA are going to show themselves again and the negatives are going to subside. If anyone thinks RAC and Savage aren't concerned about what they saw in the later part of the season, they are either posturing for ego's sake or not being realistic.

For any fan of this team to come on here and tell other fans they shouldn't be posting because they aren't "football" wise and brag about their own prowess to try and bully people with a view other than their own is not only sad, it's rather pathetic and mean-spirited.

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Believe me.............if the competition between both QBs is close, the nod will go to BQ. They have more invested in him. The fans and media favor him, and don't think that in a business as big as the NFL that marketing isn't considered.

DA is going to have to be decidedly better than BQ to play. I'm not sure if he will be, but at this point in time.............he obviously is!

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The potential to scramble when needed and throw on the run.

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DA will never have this. Then again, niether did Bernie.

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I agree. But Bernie was EXTREMLY accurate and recieved two degrees in three years. So not only was he accurate, but extremly smart. DA scored a 15 on his wonderlic test. Only two points above Vince Young.

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The potential to not only complete passes, but place them so that if our WR doesn't catch it, no defender has a shot at it. (Accuracy/ball placement)

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DA has shown great accuracy at times. He has such a big arm that he can throw the ball between defenders that Quinn will never be able to do. There is not a pass that DA can't throw. The question on accuracy is consistancy.

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In the limited time we saw him, these things he DID show!

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This absolutely kills me when people say this. We have not (as fans) seen enough to come to any conclusion. I think the Browns are in a better position to judge. It was well documented by the media of the struggles of both DA and Frye last training camp. I believe we also heard from Romeo about it. There have been a few things said about Quinn in practice, but nothing I know of by Romeo. I think once we are in camp we will hear more about both QBs progression.

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More raw talent

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I don't think I agree. Quinn is more refined, but I don't know if he has more talent.

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Better scrambler. Better at throwing on the run. Better "ball placement" so that ONLY our WR's have a shot at the ball. Yet he STILL has enough arm to throw the long ball, while having great touch on the short stuff. And he hasn't spendt four years in the NFL. Imagine what HE can be like in three or four years with NFL coaching that DA has ALREADY recieved.

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scrambles better

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Again, I don't know. He moves much better but DA has shown an ability to avoid the rush. Sometimes things equall out. Frye is probably a better scrambler than these two combined. Didn't really help his game.

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JUST having "good feet" alone isn't the greatest of attributes. But being able to look downfield and using your scrambling to buy time for your WR's to get open is a VERY valuable tool. One that will show greatly when ( not if ) our OL gets banged up. That's when I believe we'll actually "get to see" the stark contrast between these two QB's.

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I actually saw WR's drop passes looking SHOCKED that the ball actually hit them in the hands IN STRIDE!

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I know you're joking but come on, DA did hit many receivers in stride. It all comes back to consistancy.

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But if it's left to some, we'll never find out huh?

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I hope we don't. I hope DA lights it up from day one and never lets up. I don't really believe it, but it would be nice. Like I said earlier, the only person that I can point to off the top of my head who is behind DA 100% is Peen. Quite frankly, I could be wrong about him. The thing is people on here seem so sure Quinn will be better. He was rated higher coming out of college, that can't be denied. Late round players are taken because they need development, they aren't usually ready to start. DA sat and now has started for one year. He hasgrown leaps and bounds in my eyes. I don't know if he can make the next jump or not. I don't feel we should be so willing to cast him aside and put our hopes in a kid who has had one series in the NFL.

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Huh? Yes..OK.....and they do tell story that we have seldom heard in Cleveland in a long time. When was the last time that our offense threw the ball like we did last year and score as prolifically?

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When we win it's a team win. When we lose it's a team loss. When the QB plays bad there's not much one can do to sugar-coat it.

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Well he threw those four int's in the "deciding game" as to wheather we made the playoffs or not.

And it seems like a LOT of "sugar coating" to deny he chokes in such situations.

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If the defense steps up and helps us win one of our other 5 losses that one game, "THE deciding game", doesn't even come into play. "THE deciding game" becomes a non factor itself.

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And if frogs had wings, their butts wouldn't hit the ground when they jumped!


Point being, that WAS the scenario. It WAS a "make or break" game as to wheather we made the playoffs. And on a windy day, the "short stuff" can be delivered. But I keep forgetting, that is one of the areas he's "poorest" at.

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No. Hell no. You expect a TD evey time he makes a throw. You expect him to compare with Bart Starr, Fran Tarkenton, Brett Favre, and John Elway. If everythings so perfectly set up for him his TD's should still way overcome any INT's. Hell, that is only 4 passes.

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I'm sorry Pit, but that is just one hell of a load of mental masterbation.

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DA scored a 15 on his wonderlic test. Only two points above Vince Young.

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Terry Bradshaw couldn't spell 'cat' if you spotted him the C and the T.

Are we really citing Wonderlic scores?

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I do believe that DA shows many "flashes" of great accuracy, but with a lack of consistancy. But as far as "putting the ball where ONLY our WR's have a shot at it"? I've seen it from Quinn, but not from DA.

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But I believe considering rookie jitters, holding out and on a new team, in what little time we did see him, all of these things appeared not to rattle the kid at all.

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And he did show "all of the raw tools" that it takes to be a "potential" franchise QB.

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And Anderson didn't?

DA threw 29 TD strikes in his first year as a starter. Quinn threw 9 passes in his first year in the league. And yet one has "raw potential" and the other has hit his ceiling?

You honestly can't see the bias there?

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He has a "couple of them", but after how many years in the NFL now? If those attributes aren't showing now, I find it highly unlikely they will ever show.

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He's started ONE season in the NFL.

I wonder if after Quinn's first season under center you're ready to call him a finished product?

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Better scrambler. Better at throwing on the run. Better "ball placement" so that ONLY our WR's have a shot at the ball. Yet he STILL has enough arm to throw the long ball, while having great touch on the short stuff

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I do believe that DA shows many "flashes" of great accuracy, but with a lack of consistancy. But as far as "putting the ball where ONLY our WR's have a shot at it"? I've seen it from Quinn, but not from DA.


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Which of Quinn's 4 completions sold you on his ability to do so?

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Really, Quinn has only thrown 4 completions EVER?

The guy had a lot of National exposure playing for Notre Dame. Putting the ball on the money is putting the ball on the money, no matter when or where you're playing. You don't have to have an "official" NFL game to see that a guy is accurate and throws a good ball.

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Really, Quinn has only thrown 4 completions EVER?

The guy had a lot of National exposure playing for Notre Dame. Putting the ball on the money is putting the ball on the money, no matter when or where you're playing. You don't have to have an "official" NFL game to see that a guy is accurate and throws a good ball.

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I would assume Tim Couch, Akili Smith, and Ryan Leaf also "put the ball on the money" during college.


Afterall, this production against college defenses and talent is what got them drafted in the first round.


I would disagree with your last statment and say you DO need an official NFL game(s) to determine a qb's response to NFL defensive schemes and talent.

Oh, almost forgot...

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Really, Quinn has only thrown 4 completions EVER?

The guy had a lot of National exposure playing for Notre Dame. Putting the ball on the money is putting the ball on the money, no matter when or where you're playing. You don't have to have an "official" NFL game to see that a guy is accurate and throws a good ball.

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I would assume Tim Couch, Akili Smith, and Ryan Leaf also "put the ball on the money" during college.


Afterall, this production against college defenses and talent is what got them drafted in the first round.


I would disagree with your last statment and say you DO need an official NFL game(s) to determine a qb's response to NFL defensive schemes and talent.

Oh, almost forgot...

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Where are you getting this idea? Savage himself has said that Quinn "would really have to play lights out" to become the starter. This would seem to imply that if all things were more or less equal, DA is the starter. Right?

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I'm not 13 years old.

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...Bernie was EXTREMLY accurate and recieved two degrees in three years. So not only was he accurate, but extremly smart. DA scored a 15 on his wonderlic test. Only two points above Vince Young.

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If you don't understand that the raw human emotion that goes along with him becoming a FA, his future career and playoff implications running through one's mind as a FAR higher degree of pressure than "just any game", then I do not feel that you truely understand how the human mind operates.

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May the best man win, my money's on #10 but I'm not gonna write off #3 either.

I don't think that's being unfair to either QB.

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I agree completely...but it seems nobody that beleives Derek is our franchise QB wants a open competition. I don't know if Quinn can fair better, but unless DA fixes the craters in his game he isnt the answer.

Among other things..... 2 things I've read in this thread that I find quite amusing.

1. Derek will have to play MUCH better than Quinn to start... Dunn who said it, but comon people use logic. It's DA job until he falls apart completely and leaves no doubt, that is the only way Quinn sees the field.

2. "Derek won 10 games" Did he? I didn't know there were 10 other players on the field on offense and 11 on defense, must be watching two seperate games.

Then again I guess J Lewis won 10 games as well...Derek certainly won us a few games, but giving him credit for 10 wins is insane. It's the worst way on earth to judge a QB by regular season wins. He won us a few, and lost us a few. He didnt lose all 6 games and he didnt win all 10 games. Its stupid to asign a record of a TEAM to a player.

It's no different than a pitcher in baseball, if he goes 22-3 but has an era of 9.40. You can't judge on wins & loses in a TEAM sport.

This thread is pointless, as will be the next 57 before August, Derek is the guy, whether or not we fans agree. Time will tell if he can be the QB for this team.

It's like reading a political thread...too much propaganda and silly egos banging heads.

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The guy pointed out that you can't know how accurate Quinn is by 1 series in the NFL. I just have to disagree.

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Jules and 17..........do you both post w/a sour pickle in your mouths? *L*

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