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I thought he was 3 for 8. Not 4 for 9. But either way...........these experts just know BQ is better. 
It was 3 for 8.
If he went 4 for 9 then I would be sold ...
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msiterbaseball:
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Where are you getting this idea? Savage himself has said that Quinn "would really have to play lights out" to become the starter. This would seem to imply that if all things were more or less equal, DA is the starter. Right?
I'm getting it from what they have already seen from the two. It hasn't been that close.
Now..............there is some indecision in their minds. Neither QB has proven enough to be counted on as the guy. Neither has played so awful that he has proven not to be the guy. Savage did a masterful job of keeping both guys and keeping them relatively satisfied.
The competition is not over. It's just at this point, DA has shown them more than BQ. If he hadn't, he would be on another team right now, and you can take that one to the bank.
1) How do you know what the coaches and management has seen from the two? I'm genuinely curious if you have insider info or something. What are you basing the statement, "it hasn't been that close," on? Based on the 07 reg. season? Based on offseason workouts?
2) Isn't it likely that DA has "shown more" than BQ because he's played more than BQ? As most people point out, there's not much to judge from 8 pass attempts.
I'm hoping we'll see a lot of each QB this preseason so everyone can hopefully come to an agreement on who is the guy to lead this team. It would be nice if the fanbase could unite behind a quarterback. As of now, I personally do not think DA will be an elite NFL QB. He can be solid, as he was for most of '07.
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I knew what you meant, ddub. I was just being a pain and acting like a teenager. 
Z: I agree that you can't give all credit for a win to one player. The same holds true for a loss. I seem to remember you blaming DA for us not making playoffs. I could find the quotes if you like. The point being made with the 10 wins thing is simply we won 10 games with him at quarterback. That is a respectable number. If Quinn could do better, then yeah, put him in. But we have no reason to think that he could do better. And lets be real here, it's not like our team really struggled last year and we need to make a change.
DA has a few bad games and all of a sudden people think he is the worst QB ever. If I remember correctly Peyton Manning threw 6 picks in a game last year. Thats a lot worst than DA did in a game.
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Yes, Vers has inside info. An example is him telling us to pray for Joe Andruzzi before it was announced that he had cancer.
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If I remember correctly Peyton Manning threw 6 picks in a game last year.
Yeah, but it wasn't "THE deciding game".
In "THE deciding game" he crumbled to the pressure toward the end and it ruined the Colts chance of a repeat. What a bum. 
#gmstrong
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DA has a few bad games and all of a sudden people think he is the worst QB ever.
Just where has anybody even alluded to that fact? Not being sold that he is the best QB to take us into the future is not the same as saying he sucks. Nor does it mean that we think BQ walks on water. What is so hard to understand about that? 
And, it was more than a few games. 
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Why aren't you at work?
#gmstrong
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I'm taking a break. 
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For some reason I keep defending DA when I actually think that BQ will be the better Quarterback. I'm with you when you say you are not sold on DA and you don't think BQ is some sort of super amazing QB. I am far from either one of them. And I admit I shouldn't have said some people. I should have said BrownsFanZ. Sometimes IMO, people (mostly BrownsFanZ ) exaggerate how bad, or not good DA is.
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I do the same. It's not like I believe DA is a franchise QB or BQ isn't. There's no way for me to know for sure. But I find myself defending DA a lot. He's a Browns player who did very well for us in '07. I appreciate that.
Being thrown in the fire in the very first game, as he was, he could have folded, but he didn't. That showed me something. I know all the arguements about playmakers and offensive line and anyone could do as well. None of that matters. He did well and we needed that.
Imagine having season tickets and once we got past that first home game all the other ones were wins. It's awful to attend a home game and watch the team lose. That only happened once all of last year. Sitting in the stands watching a streak of seven home wins to end the season had to be one hell of a great ride.
DA deserves some props for his part in all that and I give them to him as I can.
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DA has a few bad games and all of a sudden people think he is the worst QB ever. If I remember correctly Peyton Manning threw 6 picks in a game last year. Thats a lot worst than DA did in a game.
I didn't all of a sudden think he was the worst QB ever, and I'd take DA over a lot of QB's in the league. I don't think that is what people are saying at all.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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I think that most people feel the same as I do. They are not sold on DA as a franchise QB and appreciate what he did for the Browns this year. They are a few people who really under value DA though. I'm not saying that your one of them.
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I think that most people feel the same as I do. They are not sold on DA as a franchise QB and appreciate what he did for the Browns this year. They are a few people who really under value DA though. I'm not saying that your one of them.
Gotcha.
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Show me where I say anything about DA being horrible or sucking...no I simply state that his second half of the 2008 season was as bad as his first half was good. He played above average last season when you take the whole season together. I just strongly disagree when posters claim that DA was "awesome" and "great" because if you watched the whole package he wasn't. He was above average with a great suppoting cast.
Therefore he leaves some major question marks to be answered. But like myself, and others need to remember, Derek does have the ability to fix them.
Further more I nowhere state that I know or beleive Brady will be a great quarterback, my stance is simply that we cannot hand the job over to DA with a guy that has the POTENTIAL to be a great QB in the wings. If DA shows he's the man this summer and fall that will be great for us and the Browns, be lets make sure he shows that.
By having an open job, we can better evaluate which QB should play...both have the talent and ability to be great QB's...but the problem I have is people claiming either QB will be great because we simply have not seen enough of DA yet and we have seen nill of Quinn.
I don't know if Quinn will be better and I don't know if DA will improve, I have thoroughly stated my major concerns with Derek. That being said Derek is the guy, hopefully forever, because the only way he sits is because of bad play.
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Now your trying to tell me that we missed the postseason because of our defense? Wrong...you take away the turnovers against Arz and Cinci we are in ,even with our lousy defense, you know it too.
There you say we didn't make the playoffs because of DA.
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BUT....take away the turnovers against Arizone WE WIN, we are then in. Take away the picks against Cinci...a game our DEFENSE played good, we win. And we are in the playoffs.
Here you say it again. I have never heard someone on here say DA played "great" or "awesome". You say Brady has the potential to be a great quarterback. And DA doesn't? What makes you think that BQ has more potential the DA?
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DA scored a 15 on his wonderlic test. Only two points above Vince Young.
Terry Bradshaw couldn't spell 'cat' if you spotted him the C and the T.
Are we really citing Wonderlic scores?
Normaly, no I wouldn't. However, if you are trying to compare an extremly intelligent QB from our past ( Bernie ), to DA in order to do so, you must also point out the contrasts.
It is possible to overcome physical limitations using a high level of intelligence to do so? Bernie had such an ability.
Now Phil, I don't know if you realise it, but you can take the wonderlic, or a very close reproduction of it. Many of our posters would score a 20 or more.
So if you want to compare the two, I believe when it comes to a QB who has certain limitations, you must use some type of gauge to draw a mental comparison from.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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If you allow yourself to focus on those things you mention, then you are not allowing yourself enough focus on the task at hand which is the game.
So if you know your income may double if you play well the last game of the season and the pro bowl, you will be a hero to the fans of Cleveland and lead your team to the playoffs................that "DA" has the ability to simply put all of that out of his mind in order to do this?
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You focus on the game at hand. The rest will take care of itself.
That would be the ultimate goal that only, if you look closely, not many NFL QB's have achieved over the last decade, yes................
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You seem to blame him for not putting enough focus on those oh-so-important elements that are on the fringe compared to the actual game.
No, I don't "blame him" for that. But firstly you seem to call all of these "life changing events" that were facing him as "things on the fringe"????
What I "am saying" is that ALL of these elements add to the pressure of "any young man". And I do believe that "these two performances" leave much to doubt and question wheather DA has the tools to deal with such pressure.
I don't quite know how you can explain his "last two performances". Unless of course you feel the weather at the pro bowl was not conducive for the passing game.
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And I feel that I truely do understand how your human mind operates after the whole diatribe you've been going through.
Then you fully understand that I support both of our QB's but have strong feelings about which one is better equipped to lead us into the future.
I believe Quinn to be far more "nimble afoot". Which is a positive.
I believe he has "more than enough arm" that makes this a non issue.
I believe he's much smarter.
I believe to this point, he has shown great poise in a similar situation that stood before him in his life. Pre season and his very limited time in the regular season. I mean is it "the norm" for a first time rookie to come off the bench and lead his team to a scoring drive the way Quinn did?
Now are any of those things "garuntees" that he will be "our franchise QB of the future"? Not a one of them.
But we'll never know if he doesn't play. And the question marks that surround DA do not put me in a "comfort zone" at the QB position. His limitations would be far more telling if we endure many injuries on the OL and or RB position.
I believe we'll get a chance to see Quinn this year. Our schedule is looking very tough and I do believe, unfortunatly, that as such, it will take a physical toll. And at that juncture, I believe it will be necassary to have someone that must have the ability to roll out, throw on the run OR sit in the pocket when one is afforded him.
Something I haven't seen thus far that DA has the ability to do.........................
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Now your trying to tell me that we missed the postseason because of our defense? Wrong...you take away the turnovers against Arz and Cinci we are in ,even with our lousy defense, you know it too.
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Like I said earlier, he won us a few (Cinci, Baltimore, Seattle), and lost us a few (Arz, Cinci). He didnt win 10 games and lose 6 as so many want to pin that beside his name. He played great first 8-9 games and sucked down the stretch, that eqauls above average.
And please, as you want to pin on me that I say anywhere Quinn is "god", nowhere have I said Quinn will be better, simply that he has the skills as does DA. Lets just let both go at it and see who shouold play this pre-season.
If you actually read my posts completely rather than just making wrong assumtions you might see that we are saying the same things.
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You say Brady has the potential to be a great quarterback. And DA doesn't? What makes you think that BQ has more potential the DA?
DeepThreat: it helps to read my posts completely here is what I just said and have said before. Don't mistake my concerns with DA to mean that I feel Brady is the answer.
From my previous post...
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By having an open job, we can better evaluate which QB should play...both have the talent and ability to be great QB's...
I feel Quinn will be better??? 
Again my thoughts are this : I don't know if Quinn will be better and I don't know if DA will improve, I have thoroughly stated my major concerns with Derek. That being said Derek is the guy, hopefully forever, because the only way he sits is because of bad play....and some translate that to mean I think Brady Quinn is a hall of famer? I'm not gonna go around like people who feel DA is it, and trash Quinn who has never walked on to the field. If someone was on this board saying he thought Quinn was gonna be awesome those people would rupture their arteries, however they can already label Quinn as not as good. 
Making judgements on either QB, good or bad at this point is insane. We don't know if Derek can fix his issues and we don't if Quinn can be any better than Derek. We don't know yet, its hard to say anything good or bad about Quinn because we havent seen him play. We have seen DA play, hence the fans eveluating his problems. Which he can fix for the upteenth time, I just am not one to ignore his problems and they do scare the crap out of me.
But that does not mean I think Quinn will be better, I'm simply staing my concerns with Derek and my displeasure that there isn't an open competition. 
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But we'll never know if he doesn't play. And the question marks that surround DA do not put me in a "comfort zone" at the QB position. His limitations would be far more telling if we endure many injuries on the OL and or RB position.
Awesome point Pit...this is why I want an open comp. this summer. If Quinn is better he'll show it, If Derek is better he'll show it.
Then all the doubters will run and hide and we'll be confident heading into the season because we will have seen what both QB's can do.
I don't see how thats bisas towards either player.
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The reports I hear are just so contradictory that it's really anyone's guess as to what's really going on behind the scenes. As it stands, DA is our "starter going into next season". I guess it's up to people to decide for themselves at what juncture "going into next season" begins. Do you "go into next season" as the 08 training camp starts? Is that what it means? Or does it mean "He will be the starter at the season opener"? I don't have the answer to that question. And I believe anyone that says they do, may be blowing smoke. So I don't believe that there won't necassarily be an open competition in training camp. I'm not sure who posted it, but I believe that watching the reps and playing time as the pre season progresses will give us a much better indicater of that. JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Like I said earlier, he won us a few (Cinci, Baltimore, Seattle), and lost us a few (Arz, Cinci).
But right here you said:
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there were 10 other players on the field on offense and 11 on defense
So is it a team game or not? You seem to be contradicting yourself.
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And please, as you want to pin on me that I say anywhere Quinn is "god",
Where did I say that you said Quinn was "God"?
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simply that he has the skills as does DA
In no way shape or form is DA anything like BQ. Unless you are referring to the fact that they both have potential.
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I feel Quinn will be better???
I didn't feel like copying the post of yours we quoted. There you say that they both have potential, but here you say something different.
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with a guy that has the POTENTIAL to be a great QB in the wings.
But DA has the potential to be a great QB as well.
I'm not against having a competition necessarily. But I don't think it should be an open one. We should give BQ reps with the first team in training camp and the pre-season. If BQ wins we give him the job. Other wise DA keeps it. This way there is never doubt that DA is our guy. It is/was the right move to name DA the starter.
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i think alternating starts in the preseason is also a good way of judgeing what they can each do with the "1s" and not relly cause such a stir
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j/c:
I think it is an open competition. It's always an open competition. It's just that thus far, DA has been the better QB in the minds of the Brown's braintrust, if not in the minds of most fans and media types.
I am not saying that it will remain this way. BQ could prove to be better. And if/when he does..........he will be named the starter. I just hope the pressure of the fans and media doesn't influence the Browns before it is time.
Oh. btw soup and Pit..................NO ONE ..........and I mean.........NO ONE has said that DA is our franchise QB and he is great. NO ONE! Some of us are just tired of the garbage that the likes of you two, Jules, 17, and even DC are spewing. Well...........I shouldn't speak for others in regards to being tired of hearing crap. I'm tired of it. Hell, I was tired of it the first time I read it.......because I knew it was garbage.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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You sure keep coming back for more, though.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Like I said numerous times..............As long as you guys keep making crap up and talking nonsense, I will refute it.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Naw.....you'll keep coming back until everyone agrees with you or hell freezes over. Whichever happens first. I'm thinking the second option happens before the first one. But, hey, ya never know...... 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Otto..............you keep saying that, but I could care less if anyone agrees w/me. Nevermind.......everyone! It's about standing up for what is right and pointing out what is wrong. It's about showing integrity to what is right, despite what the majority say and what scorn you may take because of that position. It is also something I doubt you would ever understand. So, keep on, keepin' on w/this nonsense of me needing everyone to agree w/me. It is what you can understand, even though it is far from the truth. For the record..............I have NEVER said that DA is a franchise QB. I have never said that he will guaranteed be better than BQ down the line. I have never said we should trade BQ and put all our faith in DA. I have argued that it would be wise to keep both QBs. I have argued that DA has potential. I have said that the Browns see good things in him. I have said that BQ has not outperformed him. I have said that we were wise to keep both. And also for the record.......a lot of the guys calling for an open competition and that they think the better QB is on the bench are the same guys who claimed that DA would NOT BE ON THE ROSTER AFTER THE DRAFT! And not only do they NOT acknowledge how wrong they were, they start more nonsense and belittle those who called it correctly. But, you keep blasting me man...........You have it down to an art form.  And like I keep saying.........I could care less if the likes of 17, Jules, soup, and Pit agree w/me. They never will and I don't expect them to. I only promise to keep calling them on their BS posts that are filled w/deception and misleading facts.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Making up crap??? Like?
Hold on, let me get another beer for this one.
Call me what you want, Vers, but don't call me a liar.
Last edited by Dawgpound017; 05/09/08 10:06 PM.
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Making up crap??? Like?
Hold on, let me get another beer for this one.
Call me what you want, Vers, but don't call me a liar.
Not calling you a liar, but many of your statements are fictional, which is where I got the "made-up" thing from. Here's the first post I came across of yours on this thread and you didn't disappoint:
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I don't think Brady has much of a chance unless he completely blows away DA, and DA bombs out. What preturbs me is if Brady does play better, why wouldn't you want the better guy playing?
I'm all about winning. I'm sick and tired of losing.
That is fictional at best. And do you really think that 10 and 6 is a losing season ..............and what's more...........do you really, really think that Savage and RAC want to keep losing?
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
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I don't think anyone wants to lose, but that had nothing to do with the statement I made. You like to take things out of context, Vers. I want them to get the decision correct. If Brady Quinn truly is the man that will give us the best shot, play him. That's all. It's simply, really. That's all I'm trying to get across there. Didn't say Brady IS better. I just want to make sure he has the opportunity to get his shot. And no, 10-6 is not a losing season. We're above .500. But, we didn't make the playoffs. That IS the goal, is it not? And what I mean by losing is, what is our overall record since we've returned??? That's losing. You try to pick apart every little thing someone says and use it to your advantage. Just take a comment and run with it. I guess I'll have to say everything in detail for you so we're on the same page. One year having a winning season doesn't offset everything else we've sat through. 10-6 last year may not equate to 10-6 this year. It should be a tougher schedule. SHOULD. People thought it'd be tough last year, now they're saying it was easier. So we'll have to sit on it. As far as my comment on Brady Quinn starting the season....and man I wish I can find the quote, but I've heard it from the horse's mouth. Savage basically said that it's DA's job and Brady would really have to outperform him to take it away. The tone in many of his interviews says it, and his comments say it. Why the hell would I make stuff up? I'm not here to impress you, nor do I care if I do. I'm just here to argue with you. That's where the losing comment comes in. If Quinn is on the bench and can gives us 12 wins, why would I want 10? I just want them to get it right. I'm not saying I know who is right. I can give opinions, but it's ultimately up to the staff. I'll look for the comment somewhere and post it if I find it....I remember it right before the draft.
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This isn't the comment, but Phil sure does some foreshadowing..... "It's a great situation for the team," Savage said of having both quarterbacks. "It's not so hot for Brady Quinn, because only one of them can play at a time."
Ok, this wasn't the interview because it is dated as 2-29-08, but he says basically exactly the same thing. I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure the one I was looking for was on STO, possibly on All Bets Are Off. But here's this quote: (On whether he would tell Quinn that it’s an ‘open battle’ still)- “When you sign a contract like we did with Derek, I don’t think there’s going to be an ‘open competition.’ We go in with Derek as the lead horse. You don’t sign a contract like that and say, hey, it’s an open competition. Obviously, if Brady goes out there and plays that well and (Anderson) is not doing that well, then we have the where with all to put the relief pitcher in. The scenario you are painting might have occurred had he just come back on the tender. At that point we would be looking at this a whole different way.” That sounds pretty clear to me. He comes right out and says that there really isn't an open competition now, and Quinn would have to play well and DA poorly. Isn't that what I've been saying? So, IMO it sounds to me that if DA plays well in camp, but Quinn looks even better, DA is the starter. Unless he's completely FOS, that's what I'm reading. I can sit here and bank on the FOS theory which would mean you'd be right. But I can't, so I have to think this is the plan. I don't have insider info. All I have is what Phil and company bring me. Fictionalizing...... 
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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I really don't think the two sides in this argument/debate are that far apart. Though I'm probably not 100% clear in what everyone thinks.
I think that DA played well for us last year and has a lot of potentail. We don't know what we have in BQ, but he too has potential. I think that DA is probably better physically with Brady having a better chance at becoming the more mentally sound Quarterback. DA will probably make more plays and BQ will make less mistakes.
The Browns should go into camp with the attitude that DA is the starter unless BQ plays better and unseats him. If they play on the same level, DA should be the starter because he was our leader and QB last year on a team that won 10 games. The QB who plays the best in camp and the pre-season should be the starter.
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I want them to get the decision correct. If Brady Quinn truly is the man that will give us the best shot, play him. That's all.
Do you really think the Browns don't want to get it correct? Or, do you think you are one of the few rational people on earth who wants to get it correct? Dang man..............think about what you are saying.
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And no, 10-6 is not a losing season. We're above .500. But, we didn't make the playoffs. That IS the goal, is it not? And what I mean by losing is, what is our overall record since we've returned???
LOL.....are you arguing my side, or yours?
Our overall record is pathetic since we returned. Yet, DA went 10 and 5 as a starter. Not 10 and 6, but 10 and 5. Yet, you guys continually bash him. {let me guess........now you will say that it is a team game. It's like a never ending vicious cycle of nonsense w/you guys].
DA won games. He was undefeated at home and we sucked at home in the past. Yet, other QBs who sucked got defended and you guys blast DA. It's moronic.
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As far as my comment on Brady Quinn starting the season....and man I wish I can find the quote, but I've heard it from the horse's mouth. Savage basically said that it's DA's job and Brady would really have to outperform him to take it away. The tone in many of his interviews says it, and his comments say it.
Wow. You still don't get this part, huh? DA garnered those comments from Savage and RAC because he has been the better QB. These guys see both QBs every day. I don't. You don't. They do. He got the nod because he has outperformed BQ, and it isn't all that close.
DA would not be here if it was a close competition. We would have dealt him and got more defensive help. How can you not understand that?
Now...........once again............DA is not a sure thing. If he was, the Browns would have given him a huge contract and he would be the guy. Savage bought some time. He kept both QBs for this year and he kept them both relatively satisfied. This QB competition is not settled. And if you were on here saying BQ was dogmeat and DA was the franchise QB, I would be arguing w/you just as much as I am now.
I am calling for common sense. DA is here and got paid because he has been the better QB. He has been named the starter because he has been the better QB. It is not about him being favored. It is not about the Browns being stupid. It is not about anything other than what it is..........he's been better than BQ.
Quit trying to BS us. It isn't working. There may come a day when BQ proves himself as a better QB than DA. When he does, he will take over. Hell, he will probably be given the job even if he isn't quite as good. He was the investment. Not DA. This BS talk of the Browns favoring DA is unreal.
I actually think you are an okay guy, 17. We've laughed over this a few times. But, this idea of favoratism that some of you are throwing out there is wrong and I will continue to bust your ass if you continue this type of argument.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Maybe we're just misunderstanding each other.....or at least one of us is. Did you not say somewhere in this thread (and forgive me for not looking, I'm tired after having a few beers, my contacts are dried out, and I have to hurry up to feed my daughter a bottle ) that if the competition is even or pretty close that in your opinion Brady gets the nod? I'm not hearing that from Phil. This is from you earlier in the thread- Quote:
I think it is an open competition. It's always an open competition. It's just that thus far, DA has been the better QB in the minds of the Brown's braintrust, if not in the minds of most fans and media types.
I am not saying that it will remain this way. BQ could prove to be better. And if/when he does..........he will be named the starter. I just hope the pressure of the fans and media doesn't influence the Browns before it is time.
Again, I'm not hearing that from Phil. It sounds like DA will only ride the pine if he stumbles and Brady looks good. Not if Derek plays well along with Brady. Smoke? Maybe. Misleading? Possibly. But we don't know that.
I took your "fictional at best" comment as being related to this comment I made-
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I don't think Brady has much of a chance unless he completely blows away DA, and DA bombs out. What preturbs me is if Brady does play better, why wouldn't you want the better guy playing?
The comments Phil has been making leads me to believe what I said above has to happen. I'm not disagreeing with you that Derek has played better than Quinn up until now at all. I have no qualms with DA going into the season as the #1. And as far as this comment -
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I want them to get the decision correct. If Brady Quinn truly is the man that will give us the best shot, play him. That's all.
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Do you really think the Browns don't want to get it correct? Or, do you think you are one of the few rational people on earth who wants to get it correct? Dang man..............think about what you are saying.
Of course I know they want to get it correct. I just hope they go about it right. Comments like I posted from PS make me a little nervous that Quinn has a shot, but needs to really outshine DA.
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LOL.....are you arguing my side, or yours?
Our overall record is pathetic since we returned. Yet, DA went 10 and 5 as a starter. Not 10 and 6, but 10 and 5. Yet, you guys continually bash him.
Yeah, exactly. Our overall record is pathetic. Which is why I said I'm sick of losing. One 10-6 season isn't enough.
And do you honestly think I bash Anderson? I may be critically at times and point out my concerns with him, but "bashing" is a harsh term. I admit I may "bash" him in the heat of the moment during the game, but IMO I don't feel I've bashed him on here. Being critical and bashing are 2 different things.
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I actually think you are an okay guy, 17. We've laughed over this a few times.
I definitely respect your knowledge of the game. I take some of this stuff serious, because the Browns are my passion. But I don't get offended, I just enjoy the arguing. Unless you call me a liar. My birthday was today, well yesterday now. That makes me a Taurus. And you know what the major attribute of a Taurus is right? Stubborn as a bull. Just like you, I'll continue to hold my ground. Nobody likes being wrong, especially me.
Just ask my wife.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Huh? Yes..OK.....and they do tell story that we have seldom heard in Cleveland in a long time. When was the last time that our offense threw the ball like we did last year and score as prolifically?
That's a VERY easy answer!
It was the last time we had an OL that could give our QB a consistant pocket. That's a funny thing about this board.
It seemed "everybody and their brother" knew that our QB's would look better behind a GOOD OL.
Now that the OL is built? A QB who is average at best is made out to be a God.
Could it be that he looked better simply because he had a consistant pocket in which he could develop a comfort zone rather than some "great improvement from DA"?
I think so. I think many give DA too much credit and the OL not near enough.
JMHO
You left out Chud.
Team...coach, players and scheme. All a good fit last year and DA was a part of that. Your effort to deflect deserved praise for DA is simply not based in fact.
No one on this board has attempted to diminish the job our offensive line did last year. No one.
The "God" comment is inflammatory. I haven't read every post in every QB thread, but I think it's fair to say that those who understand this....
"Derek has played over 1,000 snaps, and there's still people that have doubts outside of our building," Savage said. "Brady's played 10 snaps, and people are convinced that he's the guy. It's really kind of illogical."
...are simply acknowledging that DA is the starting QB and deservedly so. Any hypothetical points to be made to the contrary have their limits especially considering the success that our offense had last year with DA at the helm.
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DA deserves some props for his part in all that and I give them to him as I can.
The post that came from sums it up for me. I have repeatedly said that I find it striking that Derek's numbers from season to season are very similar since his Soph year at OSU. Big yards, double digit TDS and double digit Ints. If DA doesn't take care of the picks, then Brady will get his shot soon enough. MHO.
Until then I hope for the best for DA and, of course, our Browns. Besides I betcha that while God is not our QB he is a Browns fan.
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It's about standing up for what is right and pointing out what is wrong. It's about showing integrity to what is right, despite what the majority say and what scorn you may take because of that position.
It is also something I doubt you would ever understand. So, keep on, keepin' on w/this nonsense of me needing everyone to agree w/me. It is what you can understand, even though it is far from the truth.
Ahhh....I see. You're fighting for truth, justice and the American Way. Be careful your cape doesn't get caught in a tree and choke you. I also like the way you insult people while seeming not to. It's a neat trick that you're very good at.
And not only do they NOT acknowledge how wrong they were, they start more nonsense and belittle those who called it correctly.
The only person who constantly belittles anyone is you. And "calling" the fact that DA would still be here after the draft hardly qualifies you as an expert. Hell, I said the same thing and in no way do I consider myself an expert.
But, you keep blasting me man...........
This one really made me laugh. If you really think I'm "blasting" you perhaps you should try checking that massive ego at the door for a change.
I actually agree with quite a bit of what you say. And if you wrote it in a tone similar to, say, ddubia then I'm positive we'd never have these little discussions. But instead you post like you're the middle school principal and we're all 7th graders who need to be taught a lesson. We're not.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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I think you all are crazy and haters!
KEN DORSEY IS THE FUTURE OF THIS TEAM!!!!!!
If Tim Couch had this OL last year the Browns would have won 12 games.
Easily.
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Like I said earlier, he won us a few (Cinci, Baltimore, Seattle), and lost us a few (Arz, Cinci). He didnt win 10 games and lose 6 as so many want to pin that beside his name. He played great first 8-9 games and sucked down the stretch, that eqauls above average.
There are two things that are continually brought up by a few posters that aren't exactly accurate. (well, there are more than two by some of us but I want to focus on 2 here)
First let me add that DA did not lose 6 games, nor did he win 10. I will state that even though it is a team sport, there are times where you can pin a loss on one player for his performance, and I can say that my belief is that DA lost the Cincy game by his performance. That is MY belief.
My first point of contention---- The Cincy game did not keep us out of the playoffs. It WAS the clinching game that kept us out, but you can name any one loss as "the" game that prevented us from going to the postseason. If I had to pick one, I would name the Oakland game. We had the game in the bag.....and with a win there, we would have started the season 6-2 in the first half, which can mean a lot for morale. With a victory over Oakland, we would have been 8-3 going into December. I have always been one to preach against playing "coulda woulda shoulda" but that is the one game that bugs the hell out of me.
2nd point of contention- You stated (and others have as well) that DA played great the first 8-9 games and sucked down the stretch, when in fact he did not. He did not play well against Oakland in his 3rd appearance and his 2nd start, he did not play well against New England in his 4th start (a winnable game for us at the time that kept us out of the playoffs), he did not play well against Pitt in his 8th start (regardless of not throwing any picks in this contest).
Lots of variables in all of this, as always, that there is no reason to go into depth about. It's a done deal....now we can just sit and wait for things to play themselves out in camp and the preseason and hope and pray that the FO makes the proper decisions when the time comes.
Go Browns.
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Maybe we're just misunderstanding each other.....or at least one of us is.
Yes, I think we are misunderstanding one another.
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Did you not say somewhere in this thread (and forgive me for not looking, I'm tired after having a few beers, my contacts are dried out, and I have to hurry up to feed my daughter a bottle ) that if the competition is even or pretty close that in your opinion Brady gets the nod? I'm not hearing that from Phil.
Yes, I did say that.
I think that you are getting bent out of shape over DA going into this season as the starter. He was given the contract because of his play. He was named the starter because thus far he has been better than BQ. It's that simple.
If BQ proves to understand the offense better, look better in practices, and in games.......he will move ahead of DA.
It's so obvious. I think some of you guys want BQ to be the QB so badly that you can't see the obvious. Savage kept DA and gave away the chance at getting picks, which would have really helped the defense, because he saw a lot he liked in DA last year. He also sees that DA has a lot of untapped potential. Those are the reasons for the contract and naming him the starter.
He also knows that DA isn't a guaranteed thing and that he has a high profile QB, who the fans just love, waiting in the wings. And while BQ hasn't looked better than DA thus far, that doesn't mean that he can't improve. Therefore, DA's contract is set-up where he is either going to be sent packing or reworked where he gets big bucks soon.
Earlier this year, when most were saying that DA would be gone.......Savage said that they wanted to prolong the decision of which QB to go to for as long as possible. I think Savage did a masterful job of handling this. He has both guys. He is going to let it play out in the meetings, film room, and on the field.
The trouble comes from the outside. Too many people are acting like we could make a big mistake here. The chance of making the big mistake is beyond us. The mistake would have been to either let DA go, or to give him a contract so large that BQ wouldn't have a chance.
It would have been a mistake to make either of those decisions because the Browns are not sure which guy is going to be better. Now, we can let it play out and we have much better odds of going w/the right guy.........long term.
They'll make the right decision. The only danger is if public pressure becomes so hot that they make a decision prematurely.
Oh, and 17. I apologize if it came across as if I was saying you were a liar. That would make me mad too. I don't think you are a liar. I think you tend to see the facts in a narrow way and present only certain sides of the argument at times, but I do not think you are a liar.
Otto: Another quality post. Do you ever talk football? God man..........all you do is slam people. I'm not even going to bother defending myself. I have a feeling most people can see through your charade.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Legend
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I think it is an open competition. It's always an open competition. It's just that thus far, DA has been the better QB in the minds of the Brown's braintrust, if not in the minds of most fans and media types.
Really? By who's account? I have a source that has indicated just the opposite. And that they fully expect BQ to win the competition. That BQ has exceeded their expecations. And when you look at the price they paid for him in the first place, I'd say those expectations were pretty high to start with.
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I am not saying that it will remain this way. BQ could prove to be better. And if/when he does..........he will be named the starter. I just hope the pressure of the fans and media doesn't influence the Browns before it is time.
Which is all we have asked for.
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Oh. btw soup and Pit..................NO ONE ..........and I mean.........NO ONE has said that DA is our franchise QB and he is great. NO ONE! Some of us are just tired of the garbage that the likes of you two, Jules, 17, and even DC are spewing. Well...........I shouldn't speak for others in regards to being tired of hearing crap. I'm tired of it. Hell, I was tired of it the first time I read it.......because I knew it was garbage.
Likewise I'm sure.
Maybe if you oppened your mind to the fact that you're not the "be all end all of Dawg Talkers", you would lose the attitude. But I'm not holding my breath.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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