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How is the Cavs bench better?
I've only heard, that we have the big 3 and the Cavs have a better bench...
What makes Devin Brown, Sasha, Boobie, Varejao and whoever else comes off the bench better?
I'm not seeing it
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Dawg Talker
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Wow. Everyone must be at the Red Sox/Tigers game...
Joe Thomas made Justin Timberlake change his name. He didn't want wusses to have the same initials...
Dawg Talker since 3/26/2005...
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I don't get it either. There's no way the Cavs bench is better than the Celtics bench. The thought of that is.... 
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j/c:
Wolf, playoffmaker, and LeBron........................good posts. Post more in Pure Football. We need logical thinkers over there.
I have no idea who will win. I think it's a toss-up. Some keys as I see them:
---Celts will probably get the calls. We are going to have to know that, understand it, and deal w/it. We can't let the emotion of not getting calls affect our game. And...........I am afraid it will affect our game. The NBA has always been a star-favored team, and let's face it............the Celtics have more star power. The media wants a Boston----LA final. Like the old days. We have to overcome this. And I am now whining..........we typically get some breaks on the calls, because we have LeBron. It's just the way it is in the NBA.
---I think Z can be a factor if we have him set off-ball picks and then "pop" out to the wing and the elbow. He can nail those shots and Perkins doesn't want to go out that far. I don't want to see a lot of Z posting up on the low block.
---I would actually try these match-ups some...............Joe Smith on KG. Similar length and builds. And this is the crazy one. Wallace on Pierce. Pierce does his most damage when he gets into the lane and overpowers weaker defenders. He is very fluid for such a strong man and while LeBron has the strength to defend him, I don't wanna see LBJ pick up fouls. Wallace can move his feet and he won't be overpowered down low by PP. I know Pierce can hit the jumper, but I would rather he operate on the perimeter than down low. I don't think we should make this our primary defense, but I do want to see it employed.
---I worry about Wally matching up w/Allen. Allen is dangerous and has a better all around game than most give him credit for. He is NOT strictly an outside shooter. I thought it was great that we got a couple of practices in. I want to see Sasha on Allen when we need stops. I am a big fan of offense/defense substitutions at the end of games, and yes, even quarters. We need to make these moves in such situations.
---I worry about us having anyone quick enough to contain Rambo. We need to turn him and make him dribble side to side. If he gets an angle to the basket, we are doomed. Big series for West. I don't think Gibson has the drive to be that tough. He would rather use his hands and go for steals.
---At the end of games, we need to take Allen out of play. He is their guy at the end of games. Force KG to beat us. Not sure he can.
---I think we should increase the tempo in this series. I'm not a big fan of that style of game, but I do believe that we can get some real mismatches if we push it more than normal. Boston plays some good D in half court sets, but they are not real good in transition.
---I want to see Andy become a pest in this series. I want to see him get in guys faces. I wanna see him flop. I wanna see him off the Boston bigs the way he did Rasheed last year. I don't care if he fouls out. I want him to annoy people. And he can do it. *L*
---I don't want to see LeBron catch it on the wing. I want him to get it up top or in the paint. I want him to drive it hard anytime he thinks we might have numbers. To do this........we must control our defensive boards. That means all five guys playing good sound defense. That goes beyond blocking out and hitting the boards. What I mean is............don't get beat off the dribble and force us to switch and then rotate on the weak or back side. We must stay in front of the dribbler. You hear that Wally? West? Gibson? And even you.....LeBron? If we make them earn points and not allow them to offensive rebound.........our offense will be much better. We can push it w/LeBron and even West. We can flood zones in transition and even if we don't get the drive for points..........we WILL get kick-outs for our spot-up shooters.
---And finally............as we all know...........we need LeBron to be what he is. One of the greatest of all-time. I think he can rise to a new level, but we gotta do those other things for that to happen. We cannot slack in those other areas and expect LeBron to win this series. It's going to take:
*poise
*guts
*discipline
*a want-to on the defensive end, especially when defending the ball
*and ice in your veins to hit open shots.
We do those things and LeBron will put us over the top. If we don't do those things, we lose. It's a lot to ask, but I think it is possible.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I think some of you overestimate the talent level on Cleveland because LeBron makes them all look much better than they really are. I think Cleveland is a middle of the road team talent-wise, but LeBron himself makes them a possible top 10 team.
However they get it done is fine by me, this exact thing is what makes Cleveland so dangerous..
Cleveland a possible top 10 team..? 
They are defending Eastern Conference champions, Boston is the team that's unproven.. and it will show..
[color:"yellow"]"If I could do anything different, I wouldn't have went and gotten nothing to eat then. There wasn't even no girls in there," - Pacman Jones[/color]
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One of the above posters mentioned that the Cavs have a better bench?
I cant think that Damon Jones, Daniel Gibson, Wally, Sasha, Joe Smith and Anderson Varejao can possibly...even a little bit, be better than
Cassell, Eddie House, James Posey, Leon Powe, Big Baby, PJ Brown, and Tony Allen.
Am I missing something here? 
Playoff Stats:
James Posey: 7.4 PTS, 4.3 REB
Leon Powe: 6.7 PPG, 3.4 REB
Sam Cassell: 5.9 PPG, 1 REB, 1 AST
Glen Davis: 2.3 PPG, 1.6 REB
Tony Allen: 1.8 PPG
PJ Brown: 0.7 PPG, 1 REB
Eddie House: 0.4 PPG (no, the decimal is not in the wrong place).
Daniel Gibson: 11.8 PPG, 3.2 AST, 1.8 REB
Wally Szczerbiak: 10.8 PPG, 1.8 REB, 1.5 AST
Joe Smith: 5.5 PPG, 4.8 REB
Devin Brown: 5.2 PPG, 3 REB, 1.2 AST
Anderson Varejao: 3.2 PPG, 5.8 REBS
I'm not a math major but the numbers from the first round don't lie. Cavs have 2 double digit scorers, 4 players giving them 5+ points per game and 2 giving them 5 rebounds per.
Cavs are getting 36+ points and 15+ Rebounds from their 5 bench guys.
Boston is getting 26 points and 11+ Rebounds from their 6 bench guys.
Don't see how any of this would equate to Boston having a better bench.
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Vers...i agree with almost all of your post. Well thought out, and good points.
I only disagree with the thing about calls. I think LeBron will get enough calls to even it out. Reading a bunch of articles and watching the series, LeBron's saying he's being beat up and Mike Brown putting him on that pedestal, turned what is a relatively soft Wizards defense among the ranks of the bad boy Pistons.
Whether Boston will give him the same business I dont think so, but, still...I see LeBron and Mike Brown clamoring for more calls...and getting them.
Joe Smith on KG might be a mistake, but I think Varejao would give KG fits, because he'll play tougher than KG wants to. and BWall on Pierce could be good, but I'm not sure he's fleet of foot enough to stay with Paul on the outside, but definitely in short term bursts that could be damaging.
Z will be most effective if he can get Perkins to play a soft big man style. Thats why I think id rather have KG on Z, and let Perkins handle BWall, which i hope Doc does.
Rondo is very good when he drives, and the best part is that with all the attention people put on the Boston Three Party, Rondo flies under the radar. People dont realize he averages 10 pts a game. So every time you turn ur back, he'll score on ya.
I still think C's in 6. They play so well at home i find it hard to believe Cleveland will steal one, and I think Boston will snag one in Cleveland.
but...still, why is Cleveland's bench better...someone?
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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You're exactly right, except Wally is a starter now.
But something can also be said for Sasha.. who is healthy now and a physical defender who in the past has sucsesfully had the job of hounding one specific defender (Vince Carter)
If needed, Brown wont hesitate to throw Sasha on the easily frustrated Paul Pierce..
And something also can be said for Damon Jones, because he's a guy that can come in cold in a late game situation and hit a clutch shot..
[color:"yellow"]"If I could do anything different, I wouldn't have went and gotten nothing to eat then. There wasn't even no girls in there," - Pacman Jones[/color]
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They have better STATS because Cleveland relies on their bench to score MUCH more than Boston does. Talent-wise, Boston's bench is considerably better than Cleveland's.
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Ok...but one of the numbers missing is Minutes.
Gibson is getting those numbers in 29 minutes a game.
Wally in 25
Smith in 19
Varejao in 18.
The C's bench gives:
Posey 23
Powe 17
Cassell 13
and the others between 4 and 8.
If you look at the regular season we had 5 guys scoring 7+ per game off the bench.
So yes their numbers may be higher, but so are the minutes. Maybe that means theyre more productive players, but that takes away from the starters more than it says good things about the bench.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Quote:
Quote:
I think some of you overestimate the talent level on Cleveland because LeBron makes them all look much better than they really are. I think Cleveland is a middle of the road team talent-wise, but LeBron himself makes them a possible top 10 team.
However they get it done is fine by me, this exact thing is what makes Cleveland so dangerous..
Cleveland a possible top 10 team..?
They are defending Eastern Conference champions, Boston is the team that's unproven.. and it will show..
I don't think it's that farfethced that Cleveland is a borderline top 10 team. 12 teams finished with better records than the Cavs in the regular season.
I think Cleveland is better than some of those teams. I think Cleveland is better than Denver, Denver, and the Warriors for sure. They may be better than Orlando and Dallas, but that's debatable IMO.
Record wise they are not a top 10 team. At best, I see the Cavs as the 8th best team in the NBA, and at worst I see them as the 12th best team. Personally, I think they are the 10th best team in the NBA, but that can be debated. Hence, why they are a possible top 10 team. It isn't unrealistic.
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First of all........thanks. Secondly........I ain't raggin on Boston for getting the calls. It's just the way it is. They are the media darlings........along w/LA. I don't know how old you are, but the NBA has always been that way. Besides, like I said..........we do get calls because of LeBron. He may get some calls, but overall, it will go to Boston. If I am wrong....I'll make sure to point out you were right. Fair? I understand that Wallace isn't fleet of foot. He does have quick feet though and can stay w/Pierce if he gives PP room. Yes, Pierce could torch us w/outside shots. But, I am picking the lesser evil. Pierce is a very talented offensive player, and I want him operating on the outside. I do NOT---under any circumstances---want him driving on us and using his incredible flexibility and strength to manufacture shots in the paint. He can beat us in there. He can damage us from the outside, but he can't beat us out there. And again...........that is not an exclusive match-up. We are going to have to run multiple guys at KG, PP, and Ray. Ray is the guy we really don't match up well with, unless we can get Sasha on the floor w/out him killing us on offense. Rondo.......Rambo scares me because I think he can beat our PGs off the dribble. If we are forced to switch and rotate, we are doomed. We can not, under any circumstances, allow Boston second shots. They go on streaks of getting offensive boards..............we MUST minimize this. I gotta say this.................I coached HS basketball for awhile and I am always dumbfounded at how bad NBA coaches are. You guys ever listen to their talks on the bench? LMAO............They say like "we gotta block out." "We gotta increase our intensity." "We gotta take good shots." "We gotta get stops."  No kidding! Masters of the obvious. Rarely do I hear a guy actually give instruction on how to do those things. Hubie Brown was the best I heard as far as a coach. Most of these guys are stiffs in regards to BB IQ. They are more facilitators and less instructors than anything else.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Exactly!!! That and, like I said, the Cavs rely on their bench to score much more than Boston does. Boston can win without a lot of production off the bench much easier than the Cavs can win without a lot of bench production.
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Quote:
Record wise they are not a top 10 team. At best, I see the Cavs as the 8th best team in the NBA, and at worst I see them as the 12th best team. Personally, I think they are the 10th best team in the NBA, but that can be debated. Hence, why they are a possible top 10 team. It isn't unrealistic.
I hate guys who talk smack. Take it to the smack shack. We won the Eastern Conference last year. That puts us in the top 10, especially since we have a better mix of talent this year. Also, you conveniently forgot all our injuries. We had a TON! Your post is similar to one of the BQ guys bad-mouthing DA. Little fact, and a lot of hot air that adds up to little but smack.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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You just said that Boston's bench was way better. Now, you are saying that ours produces better because we play it more. Get the hell outta here w/your BS! Look, I can talk to an opponent w/a measure of class. I used to talk to Bells. He was reasonable. But don't come on our home turf and talk smack. Talk facts. No smack, or you will get smacked.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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They may be better than Orlando and Dallas, but that's debatable IMO.
Let's see , Dallas was eliminated, Orlando got stomped by Detroit in the first game. Kinda makes this post ...uhhhh.
Hey Vers, I have a question that you might be able to answer. Mind if I pm you ?
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Not sure if I can answer it, but yes, you may PM me.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I can see that point. I suppose the only reason i thought that way on calls, is that i didnt think we got so many calls in the ATL series to make it seem like we were getting the calls. Maybe though, I can see where youre coming from.
And i see that about Paul.
I think the fear of Rondo is very valid still, and when he can get to the lane it makes #20 that much more effective, cuz he'll be there for Rajon to dish and Ray doesnt miss often.
I too agree about the coaches being bad. Its strange though, I look at how college coaches are, and how they seem to fare terribly in the NBA. and it makes me think, that really you just have to be a facilitator to be an NBA coach. and a lobbyist to referees. They spend more time on refs than their team.
I think in the NBA its about giving your team a good game plan. These guys are good enough to just let it happen.
Im 22, i been coaching since I was 17, and i just really think the NBA is a completely different animal than any other kind of basketball
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Hmmmm...........good post.
About the calls...............let me tell you. Growing up, Boston and LA were always the teams. They got every call. It took a lot for Chicago and Detroit to knock them off. Hell, not that long ago.........we saw what happened to Sacremento against LA. They got hosed. It sucks, but it is what it is. And like I say.........I know the Cavs get calls because of LBJ. So, I am not crying. My point is that because we are used to getting some calls, we can't melt down when we don't. We can't let the refs get inside our heads. We must accept it as a fact, and work to overcome it. Feeling sorry for yourself, or lashing out in anger has never been a key to success, whether it be hoops or life.
Good point about Rambo driving and kicking to Ray. Ray is deadly. He is the ONE guy I wish the Cavs got. Very underrated player. I also think that if we have to rotate, Boston's bigs will kill us on second shots, especially guys like Davis, Perkins, and that Pogue guy, or whatever his name is. I'm bad on names.....sorry. Plus, we won't be able to transition.......and we do need to transition. Our ball defense is huge in this series.
Good point about college and NBA coaches. College coaches are far superior to NBA coaches. Hell, most HS coaches are too. But, that is probably part of their problem in the NBA. You can't tell these multi-millionaires what to do. They baby them. They massage egos. And they work the refs.......just as you said. I absolutely loathe those talks they give though. No .............we need to get stops and take good shots. LOL............who doesn't know that?
Glad to hear you are coaching. It's rewarding. Try to get your school to fund your trips to clinics. Don't go to NBA guys. Go to college guys. It's been awhile for me, but Pitino always ran great clinics. Knight is unreal. If you hate him......you won't after hearing him speak. Motta is a sharp guy. The best is Pete Carill. He was the former coach of Princeton. Master of back door cuts off of screens.
Also......if you are looking for an offense to run.................check out UCLA w/motion. Lots of screens and cuts. Puts shooters in position to shoot and allows you to crash boards. Do your research. It will pay off.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Legend
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Quote:
you're going under the assumption that if the cavs win this series, the trade is good, and if they lose, it's bad
and that isn't right at all...
Exactly. The Cavs are about to play a team that is far better, at least on paper, than any team they had to beat last year to get to the finals...
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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But if they lose that doesn't mean the trade was bad ... do you honestly think that if we had Gooden and Hughes on our team, our chances of beating Boston would be signifigantly improved? (Not directed to you specifically DC)
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Legend
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I guess if the Browns don't get the AFC Championship game, picking up Rogers and Williams was a mistake... 
yebat' Putin
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They have better STATS because Cleveland relies on their bench to score MUCH more than Boston does. Talent-wise, Boston's bench is considerably better than Cleveland's.
post of the year.
laughable.
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Legend
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Quote:
But if they lose that doesn't mean the trade was bad ... do you honestly think that if we had Gooden and Hughes on our team, our chances of beating Boston would be signifigantly improved? (Not directed to you specifically DC)
exactly.
we're starting to see why danny ferry pulled the trigger on this trade...
larry hughes was not dedicated to winning, his comments back that up... i think we somewhat still miss his defense a little bit, and i love drew gooden, but he is not a fit for the way the cavs play... i think joe smith on his own, off the bench, can make up most of what drew gave you every night (minus the dumb quotes)
if you think about the way this trade was structured, how danny ferry was able to get rid of some dead weight, for a few productive players, one young point guard... and actually increase our expiring deals for next year, you can see that he has put this organization in an unbelievable spot for the future...
this trade was made in hopes of getting some production this year, but also being very flexible in the next 2 years, so that they can improve this team to the point of them being put in a class with the elite teams... the teams that are there every single year, the spurs, pistons, suns, etc...
wally had one good game, it doesn't mean he's going to hit 6 threes every night, but it could finally be a sign that he's comfortable, and that he understands his role...
he could easily revert back to shooting 2-12 and turning the ball over 4 times... there's no guarantee of anything...
our bench has become a strong point though, gibson and devin brown really give the backcourt a much-needed boost, joe smith is about as consistent as it gets...
i don't know if we'd beat this boston team had we never made the move, i think it would have been a hell of a lot easier to load up on lebron, and force other guys to make shots...
and really, doing that puts our fate in the hands of boobie gibson, if he's on, we're in, if he's a smidge off, it gets ugly...
but now? we have several guys who can knock down open looks...
and i watched ray allen clank quite a few open shots in the atlanta series, i think if wally can just contest most of his shots, that should keep him on the floor, and keep the double and triple teams off of lebron...
because when we defend, lebron will tell ya "we can have anything we want at the offensive end"
and by the way, i think calling the wizards an average team is kind of lame... considering their injury problems, they are a good team, definitely better than atlanta, better than denver, and some of these other teams that didn't do diddly in the playoffs...
i watched a bunch of the boston/atlanta series, and saw tons of chances where the hawks could have stayed with the celtics in boston... and their youth really showed...
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IMHO....If the Cavs are to advance , someone else has to step up , like Booby & Wally did....IF Lebron has to single handedly carry this team on his shoulders , I don't see how we beat the Celtics....This series is going to be a tough battle....Boston's roster is stacked with veteran Talent with Playoff experience....I do think that our ability to defend Garnett will be Critical to any chance we have at winning the series....
The Mammal
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i think lebron will be more agressive going to the basket in this series...
if you noticed, he didn't go to the hole as much as you would have expected, but that is also due to the fact that this is the best surrounding cast he's had since being drafted... he knows that he doesn't need to carry the load... he's going to do what he has to win... but i think with this being the big bad celtics, the juices will get flowing, and i expect him to make things a lot easier on his teammates...
i think z is a huge factor too... does kg guard him? and if so, will he come out if z is banging in that mid range shot? that can prove lethal to the cavs... if that's hitting, the interior defense is screwed... and that opens up chances for offensive rebounds... which is something the cavs hang their hat on...
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j/c
I don't see how anyone can say that Boston has a better bench. If you want to say they have a better starting 5 then duh, you are absolutely correct.
It's up for the Cleveland Starters and bench to outscore the big 3. If they can, then we will win.
Boston's bench is either young and unproven or waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over the hill.
you had a good run Hank.
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Would you guys quit worrying so much about Garnett. He will not be the reason we lose this series if we do.
How often do the Cavs lose due to the other team's best big/bigs beating them? Hell, we didn't lose in the finals due to Tim Duncan. We lost due to Tony Parker running circles around us.
Just think about that for a minute....
Like I mentioned in the other thread, my main key to the series is stopping Rondo from getting going. When I say "getting going," I mean facilitating the offense and getting in the paint. If we do that, this team will have its hands full with us. All in all, we are not going to lose this series because of the "big 3." We will lose it by letting guys like Perkins and Powe on the offensive glass, etc.
I heart winning
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Vers, i hear that it is obnoxious about the talks. Theyre boring and as you said, way uninformative.
to them others...the Boston bench is unproven or over the hill? Cassell and PJ Brown are old, thats true...and Big Baby and Powe are young and unproven sure.
but James Posey and Eddie House are both proven and not over the hill. I mean Eddie House isnt spectacular, but he can score. and thats his role when he's in.
But i think the bench provides an equal balance of youth, veteran leadership, and ability. and most importantly it plays a very very effective role on the team. Like i said, each player has a role that they can fill, and do better than others. Cassell is the leader and calming influence. Posey is the defense, House is the shooting, Brown is the rebounding, Powe is the big man, Baby is another big man. They do what they need to get the W.
What has the Cavs bench done to prove anything...other than Daniel Gibson? Pavlovic is defense only. Varejao is a good reserve and boosts the D when Z gets a break. Joe Smith is also good, as a solid steady guy.
but personally id take Posey over Sasha, I'd take Powe over Varejao. Joe Smith is the only guy that comes off the bench id rather have. Boobie too i suppose, but id rather Sam Cassell than him, i know they play different spots, but.
to Washington being a mediocre team...I havent said that, i just said they were on defense. And thats shown all year. Theyve been hampered by injury most significantly Agent 0, and that makes them average.
I really think this series comes down to...
helping out LeBron, knowing youre role, and playing unintimidated. KG is intense, and it psychs teams out. It didnt to ATL and they showed it. Paul Pierce is Paul Pierce, you have to make him play like someone else. Try to make him a player he isnt (thats where Vers' idea of BWall on him could be key), and Ray Allen is Ray Allen...he's our LeBron...he's gonna get his. Thats what he does, its so hard to stop because he moves so well without the ball.
Boston doesnt have any truly stout rebounders. No one averaged more than 10. but, they rebound well, and it shows because their defense is stout. Half of it is rebounding.
People see LeBron and think he is just unstoppable, but this is the best defense in the league statistically, They dont beat themselves, and they dont do any one thing spectacular, they just take you off your game. Thats tough for teams to overcome, LBJ and co will have to. He's goin to have to force Boston's defense off their gameplan into what LBJ does. Thats the biggest key.
Needless to say...I see Boston just playing their game too well. The scare will focus them. Much like the Davidson game did for Kansas this year.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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to them others...the Boston bench is unproven or over the hill? Cassell and PJ Brown are old, thats true...and Big Baby and Powe are young and unproven sure.
Ok so you just confirmed what we are saying about 4 of your bench players. So your saying that over half of your bench players are over the hill or young and unproven. i agree 
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but James Posey and Eddie House are both proven and not over the hill. I mean Eddie House isnt spectacular, but he can score. and thats his role when
he's in.
I have always been a Posey fan, (although he wont "lock up" Lebron lol) and he was a solid quiet pickup for a team like Boston trying to build a contender on the fly. But House is only proven to be a gunner. Yea if he gets hot he can hurt us in spurts, but im not too worried about him in the long hall of this series.
And to stick to the subject, he'd be buried on our bench along with Damon Jones if he was on Cleveland. There would be no role from a no defense gunner like that..
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But i think the bench provides an equal balance of youth, veteran leadership, and ability. and most importantly it plays a very very effective role on the team. Like i said, each player has a role that they can fill, and do better than others. Cassell is the leader and calming influence. Posey is the defense, House is the shooting, Brown is the rebounding, Powe is the big man, Baby is another big man. They do what they need to get the W.
Ok so you listed your bench and said they all do one positive thing...
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What has the Cavs bench done to prove anything...other than Daniel Gibson? Pavlovic is defense only. Varejao is a good reserve and boosts the D when Z gets a break. Joe Smith is also good, as a solid steady guy.
Then you list ours and say they "only" do one thing, and that makes it bad...
I don't think I have much chance of convincing you at this point that Clevelands bench is much superior to the C's, so all I'll say is that they are neither unproven or old and washed up. Cleveland is a proven and tested (together) team from top to bottom.
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but personally id take Posey over Sasha, I'd take Powe over Varejao. Joe Smith is the only guy that comes off the bench id rather have. Boobie too i suppose, but id rather Sam Cassell than him, i know they play different spots, but.
You sounds like a wonderful GM..
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I really think this series comes down to...
helping out LeBron, knowing youre role, and playing unintimidated. KG is intense, and it psychs teams out. It didnt to ATL and they showed it. Paul Pierce is Paul Pierce, you have to make him play like someone else. Try to make him a player he isnt (thats where Vers' idea of BWall on him could be key), and Ray Allen is Ray Allen...he's our LeBron...he's gonna get his. Thats what he does, its so hard to stop because he moves so well without the ball.
KG wont psych anyone out... this isnt the regular season, and we arnt the Bobcats, Nets, or whatever other team Bostons psyched out during the regular season. KG will not psych out Cleveland lol..
Ray Allen is not like LeBron in any sense you can come up with...
Pierce will play like someone else, he always does against LeBron. He will make it a one on one show and come up short in the 4th..
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Boston doesnt have any truly stout rebounders. No one averaged more than 10. but, they rebound well, and it shows because their defense is stout. Half of it is rebounding.
Cleveland is the number one offensive rebounding team in basketball, this should concern you.
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People see LeBron and think he is just unstoppable, but this is the best defense in the league statistically, They dont beat themselves, and they dont do any one thing spectacular, they just take you off your game. Thats tough for teams to overcome, LBJ and co will have to. He's goin to have to force Boston's defense off their gameplan into what LBJ does. Thats the biggest key.
LeBron single handedly dismantled the Pistons defense 2 consecutive years in the playoffs, and they have a much better D than the C's.
Yes, LeBron is unstoppable. That's great that the Celtics D was nuumber 1 on paper, but i can promise you LeBron has seen better, and he's not intimidated in the least..
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Needless to say...I see Boston just playing their game too well. The scare will focus them. Much like the Davidson game did for Kansas this year.
LOL.. I hate to even spend time on that comment, but scares happen in college because of one game eliminations on neutral courts against teams that dont know each other..
When a series goes 7, thats not a scare or a fluke.. its a pattern. Boston would have lost the next 5 straight at ATL if the series could go on..
They are soft..
[color:"yellow"]"If I could do anything different, I wouldn't have went and gotten nothing to eat then. There wasn't even no girls in there," - Pacman Jones[/color]
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Eat it Phil...
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It's not smack talk, it's reality. Plus, why would I smack the Cavs when I root for them as a close 2nd favorite team? The only team that I won't root for the Cavs over are the Celtics. I think some of you are letting your loyalty to Cleveland get in the way of the truth. Are the Cavs a good team? Yeah. Are they a top 10 team? That's debatable.
As far as the benches are concerned:
Cassell>Boobie
Brown & Smith = push
Powe>Varejao
House & Damon Jones = push
Posey>Brown or Pavlovic
Those are pretty much the main bench players for both teams, may have forgotten one or 2. The Celtics bench is better.
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You just said that Boston's bench was way better. Now, you are saying that ours produces better because we play it more.
Get the hell outta here w/your BS!
Look, I can talk to an opponent w/a measure of class. I used to talk to Bells. He was reasonable. But don't come on our home turf and talk smack. Talk facts. No smack, or you will get smacked.
If a bench player plays more, that player should put up more points. That's logic. I don't see how you don't understand that. Bostons starters produce more than the Cavs starters, so Bostons bench doesn't have to produce as much as the Cavs bench in order for their team to win. It's pretty simple. The Cavs bench plays more, so it scores more. That's why there STATS are better.
In the playoffs so far, Bostons starters accounted for about 75% of their total points per game, so their bench accounted for 25%. The Cavs starters accounted for about 72% of their total points per game, their bench accounts for about 28%. The Cavs NEED their bench to score more than Boston does.
Cavs top 4 Bench players v. Celtics top 4 Bench(#'s rounded):
Gibson - 30 MPG, 12 PPG Posey - 23 MPG, 7 PPG
Smith - 20 MPG, 6 PPG Powe - 18 MPG, 7 PPG
Brown - 14 MPG, 5 PPG Cassell - 13 MPG, 6 PPG
Varejao - 19 MPG, 3 PPG Davis - 8 MPG, 2 PPG
#'s added up:
Cavs top 4: 83 M, 26 P
Celtics top 4: 62 M, 22 P
The top 4 Cavs bench players compared to the Celtics top 4 bench players, play 21 more minutes and score only 4 more points.
So yes, the Cavs bench scores more, but they also play more. Based on this, the Celtics bench is better. This also leaves off players like House, Brown, and Allen who have played in almost every playoff game so far.
Statistically the Celtics bench is better, and IMO, talent-wise they are better too.
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They may be better than Orlando and Dallas, but that's debatable IMO.
Let's see , Dallas was eliminated, Orlando got stomped by Detroit in the first game. Kinda makes this post ...uhhhh.
Hey Vers, I have a question that you might be able to answer. Mind if I pm you ?
Dallas was eliminated by New Orleans - a much better team than the Cavs.
Orlando did get beat bad by the Pistons, but the Pistons are still a better team than the Cavs. So Dallas and Orlando lost to teams that are better than the Cavs IMO. That argument doesn't work very well hurricaned. Sure, the Cavs beat Detroit last year, but last year is last year. The Pistons were a better team last year too, but the better team doesn't always win. Talent-wise, the Pistons are much better than the Cavs.
So your argument is: Dallas and Orlando both lost to teams that are better than the Cavs...
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damn this 8pm start, i wouldnt mind another 6pm start. I just dont like waiting that long. 
President - Fort Collins Browns Backers
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As far as the benches are concerned:
Cassell>Boobie
As a point guard, I agree, Cassell is better...however, Boobie is the better scorer.
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Brown & Smith = push
Not even close. PJ Brown came out of retirement and is older than dirt.
Joe Smith is near the end of his prime and can still be a legit starter in the league. Your bias is showing on this one.
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Powe>Varejao
It really depends on which Varejao shows up. If he is the good Varejao, then Varejao is much better than Leon Powe...if it's bad Varejao, then I think it's Powe...but not by much. Not to mention Powe has no experience...that does not work at all in the playoffs.
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House & Damon Jones = push
Probably...and Damon Jones doesn't even play for us in the playoffs. Compare him with Brown, and you are in a big disadvantage. You might as well put Dwayne Jones in this spot.
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Posey>Brown or Pavlovic
Posey is the only one on the bench that I really respect. Posey is a heck of a bench player and probably the realistic 6th Man of the Year.
Overall though, there is no way your bench is better than ours. You have Posey and either over the hill players or unproven players.
The Cavs on the other hand have players that all have playoff experience, a 3 point expert, two energy guys that can be hot and cold, and of course, Joe Smith, who is still a very productive bench player.
you had a good run Hank.
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The Cavs NEED their bench to score more than Boston does.
Do you see that as a good thing for Cleveland or a bad thing? Because I don't see how Cleveland using their bench more is a bad thing..
I'd also like to point out the word "need" could be replaced with the word "rely" in this situation, and it would be more appropriate.
Maybe if the Celtics bench was better they would be relied on to score more points than they are?
Depth wins in the playoffs, the Celtics don't have it. I think the fact that their starting 5 does all their scoring is exactly why Boston is not contenders (especially when their Center and PG don't score). Maybe a young team could get away with that, but the big 3 are all old... they just played a stressful 7 game series, and need to suit up to play LeBron 2 days later.. they need depth off the bench.. it's going to catch up to them..
I think the Celtic fans on this thread need to understand the difference between playoff basketball and regular season basketball..
[color:"yellow"]"If I could do anything different, I wouldn't have went and gotten nothing to eat then. There wasn't even no girls in there," - Pacman Jones[/color]
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Legend
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You sure looked up a lot of numbers to not make much of a point...
yebat' Putin
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Cassell>Boobie
Maybe for phoning ET but in terms of basketball, do you honestly think Boston wouldn't ship Cassell off in a millisecond to have Gibson coming of their bench for this stretch run?
Gibson is a young player (who's playoff tested by the way) coming in to his own. Shooting 48% from the field and 50% from 3. He makes good decisions, plays hard and he's lights out in crunch time.
Cassell is a nice veteran player but even for only one year (this years playoffs), I'd be shocked if Boston wouldn't take Gibson.
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Brown & Smith = push
Huh? Joe would eat PJ Brown alive. He's one of the more underrated players in the league, even at 32. Smith can get you 10 and 6 pretty easily off the bench. It might take a step latter for Brown to do that at this point. He's a good lockeroom guy but aside from that, he's not really a contributor at all. His season high was 4 points in 23 minutes and that was in March.
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Powe>Varejao
If there's a push on the list, it's probably these two players. Their games and roles are pretty similar. Powe maybe gives you a little better production as an inside scorer but Varejao is the better rebounder.
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Posey>Brown or Pavlovic
The nod goes to Posey but with a healthy Pavlovic, it would be pretty much a wash. He averaged 9 points and 2.5 rebounds in 22 minutes last year. Posey Averages 7.4 points and 4.4 rebounds in 24 minutes. Both are good perimeter defenders and can knock down the 3. Each has good size at 6'7'' and 6'8''. Posey is a little more reliable game to game but Sasha can give you that 20-25 point outburst that he did a few times this and last season. He's also a better slasher then Posey, who for the most part is more of a spot up shooter at this point in his career.
It may not be an enormous edge but the Cavs bench is better, especially when you consider Pavlovic has been injured.
In terms of your argument, it's almost a what came first....the chicken or the egg. You say the Cavs rely more on their bench because their starters aren't as good but maybe they rely on their bench because they have more capable players (then Boston) that need to get minutes.
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