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Damanshot #267979 05/15/08 12:06 PM
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y'all act like the wheels will come off if he doesn't play this season. he's only one piece of the puzzle, and he isn't irreplaceable.

choco #267980 05/15/08 12:17 PM
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Mmmkay. Not quite sure where that came from. We're discussing the idiocy of the local media and it's spin on Winslow's absence. This has nothing to do with our ability to succeed without him. I fully expect K2 to be with us this season and to play with the same level of emotion and intensity as he has the past 2 seasons, regardless of whether or not he gets a contract extension. For the record, I don't think there will be an extension for K2 this season. Savage has said as much. K2 will need another solid year to prove he deserves it, especially in light of his deteriorating knee.

Kardiac12 #267981 05/15/08 12:45 PM
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A couple of other articles I found that have me drooling in anticipation...

Ready for a breakthrough
Browns hope Stallworth can take offense even higher
Thursday, May 15, 2008
By Steve Doerschuk
REPOSITORY SPORTS WRITER

BEREA As a Wednesday rain tap-danced on the fieldhouse roof, Donté Stallworth darted to the left sideline as if shot out of a fire hose.

He stopped on a dime, pivoted and instantly recognized where Derek Anderson's pass was going to be. Stallworth wedged his body to the ground and made a highlight-quality rolling catch.

The delight on Anderson's face spoke volumes. This is something he can get used to.

"Obviously, he has speed," Anderson said. "I've been throwing to him four or five weeks. The guy can stretch the field, and he's got a good set of hands on him.

"He can bring a lot."

Tight end Kellen Winslow Jr. was a missing piece Wednesday, absent from the second day of spring practice while recovering from arthroscopic knee surgery and angling for a new contract.

That shifted attention to Stallworth, perhaps the missing link.

Why might an offense that broke through in 2007 be so much better because of Stallworth?

"He has an incredible burst," quarterback Brady Quinn said. "He's quick and agile. He's able to do different types of routes that we can almost create just for him.

"He's a real luxury to have."

Stallworth, 27, was the 13th overall pick of the 2002 draft, taken by New Orleans via the University of Tennessee. His career year was 2005, when he gave the Saints 70 catches for 945 yards and seven touchdowns. On a 16-0 New England team in 2007, he made 46 catches for 697 yards.

"I would hope I'm still in my prime," Stallworth said. "I feel like I have a little bit left in these olds legs."

Speed, Anderson said, was the first thing he noticed when working with Stallworth. And it's not just about going deep.

"Both Donté and Kevin (Kasper) both bring a little more quickness to us on underneath routes, things that maybe we haven't had," Anderson said.

Yes, that was an indication 29-year-old newcomer Kevin Kasper, a former Iowa standout, could make the team.

But Kasper would be a bit player. Stallworth is supposed to take a big bite out of defenses.

He opens up intriguing possibilities for No. 1 wideout Braylon Edwards, who is coming off an 80-catch, 1,289-yard, 16-TD year.

"I'm excited," Edwards said. "Donté is high-energy. He's fast. He's a playmaker. He blocks. He has all the intangibles.

"He'll create mismatches."

Stallworth was drafted at a spot that suggested Pro Bowls and 1,000-yard seasons. His career hasn't developed that way, but ...

Has he seen himself as a No. 1 wideout in waiting?

"I don't get into all that," Stallworth said. "I feel like I can make any plays the coaches ask me to make.

"My main objective is getting this playbook down. We're getting a lot thrown at us.

"I know what kind of ability I have. I just try to be that guy coordinators are scared of every game."

canton rep


Edwards has that swagger
Thursday, May 15, 2008
BY Steve Doerschuk
REPOSITORY SPORTS WRITER

BEREA Beginning his fourth year with the Browns, Braylon Edwards is acting like a senior.

The Pro Bowl wideout was completely at ease Wednesday on the second day of spring practice. He laughed. He clowned. At one point, he and fellow former Big Ten wideout Kevin Kasper took turns throwing each other football fastballs out of baseball windups.

Edwards ran with the spring of a colt and the air of an old pro.

The bounce carried over to his words after practice. Head Coach Romeo Crennel says the Browns are embracing great expectations. Edwards is bear-hugging them.

"We were one of the better offenses last year, and we have another year with it," Edwards said. "I'm very confident we can be amongst the top three."

Rob Chudzinski enters his second year of spring practice as offensive coordinator. Last spring was about installing. This spring is for streamlining.

Derek Anderson isn't wondering if he'll be behind Charlie Frye and Brady Quinn. He spent Wednesday's entire practice running the No. 1 offense.

Edwards' take on what continuity breeds:

"Going into the season, we already kind of know each other like a book, like an Indianapolis Colts type of situation."

Refinement should help a team that already believed in itself last year, Edwards said.

"We put together 10 wins, and we should have had 13," he said. "The only difference this year is, everybody else knows about us.

"This year is a year we fine-tune things and become masters at what we do."

TAKE A NUMBER Defensive linemen Shaun Rogers and Corey Williams basically are replacing Ted Washington and Orpheus Roye on the roster. Rogers is wearing Washington's old number, 92. Williams is the new No. 99. Those were Roye's digits the past eight seasons.

In certain "trips" formations, Nos. 16 (Josh Cribbs), 17 (Braylon Edwards) and 18 (Donte Stallworth) could be in a cluster. The newcomer in the group, Stallworth, also wore No. 18 in New England.

MEAN MR. ROGERS A year ago, the Browns were breaking in a running back, Jamal Lewis, who had seemed to be fading as a Baltimore Raven. Lewis delivered his best season since 2003. Now, the team is working with a former Pro Bowl defensive tackle, Rogers, who was seen as declining in Detroit.

Edwards, who knows Rogers fairly well, said: "He has a chip on his shoulder. It'll be the same type of situation as when we got Jamal last year. Trust me, he'll get it done this year."

EXTRA POINTS

• Linebacker Willie McGinest expects this season to be his last, but he said, "Who's to say? You see guys have their retirement party ... then they come back."

• McGinest on new Defensive Coordinator Mel Tucker: "He brought that fire and that feistiness into the meeting room the first day. He knows what he wants to do and how he wants to do it."

• Veteran cornerback Kenny Wright, who played in only seven games last year and had offseason legal issues, was released Wednesday.

canton rep

Kardiac12 #267982 05/15/08 01:32 PM
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As a Wednesday rain tap-danced on the fieldhouse roof, Donté Stallworth darted to the left sideline as if shot out of a fire hose.

He stopped on a dime, pivoted and instantly recognized where Derek Anderson's pass was going to be...

" Stallworth wedged his body to the ground and made a highlight-quality rolling catch.. "


Sorry but I have to

waterdawg #267983 05/15/08 01:41 PM
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Yeah, I found that kind of funny too. I guess it's good that we have receivers who can snag balls off the turf. Unfortunately, he won't get too many YAC if he has to roll on the ground to catch the ball.

choco #267984 05/15/08 02:18 PM
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Sorry Choco,, but I don't see anyone all that worried about it,, we were discussing the media.. So, what's your problem with that


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Damanshot #267985 05/15/08 02:34 PM
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You guys have every right to not like the media types, and think they start a lot of crap, for whatever reason.

I am not willing to dismiss what they are saying. I do not believe what they say is gospel, but I can draw conclusions from what we do know. I am certainly not going to start critizing (hating to many of you) Winslow at this point, but would not be suprised if this does turn out to be true.

Rosenhaus is natorious for pulling power plays like this, and everyone in football knows it. Winslow's lack of comment doesn't mean it is because he wants to holdout, but it is strange. I don't remember Winslow ever having a problem speaking to anybody. I don't know if it was just a matter of wanting to rehab somewhere else why he would keep quiet about it.

Someone brought up the history of staph and the Browns. I can see why he would be concerned, and why he wouldn't want to say so publicly. i don't think that he would nee to bring that up publicly. All he would have to say is that he feels his rehab is better where he is at now.

I think there is some smoke. I don't think that means there is fire. I am not naive enough to believe that this is nothing more then a made up story.


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Pdawg #267986 05/15/08 02:36 PM
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I agree Pdawg. There certainly could be some truth to this matter. I just can't stand the constant pounding of it.


I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
Kardiac12 #267987 05/15/08 02:51 PM
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Good stuff, Kard. Donte has me drooling as well. I wanted him when he came out. I know he's taken some flack over the years, but I was really happy when we signed him. I like what that article says too. Maybe we've found our Hoosh. BE is really coming into his own as well. Love the transition he's made and the maturity he's showing.

Pdawg - I am hoping K2 is sitting out because of his surgery and until he misses TC, I personally, am not going to worry about it, but you are certainly correct regarding Rosenhaus' antics. And while I am tired of the fabricated sensationalism by the media (we discuss this every year on here it seems) especially by Mary Kay, often, as has proven the case, where there's smoke there's fire. While a contract holdout wouldn't shock me, I fully expect Savage to do what is best for the team, whatever that proves to be given all the factors he'll need to weigh.


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Damanshot #267988 05/15/08 02:52 PM
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I don't see what it would benefit Winslow from holding out. The Browns are one of those teams that aren't afraid to pay their players, within the boundaries of common sense. I can see Winslow making a few ripples with the OTA's just to stir the local press but he's not going to take a back seat to anyone once it comes time to play football. His clock is ticking and one day that knee will explode. If he wants in the Hall of Fame he absolutely must be on the field every time the Browns play. At this point in his career it "The light that burns the brightest burns half as long." Do you think he wants to miss all those prime time games we're playing this year? The deal will get done.

J.


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jeepnstein #267989 05/15/08 02:55 PM
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Quote:

I don't see what it would benefit Winslow from holding out.




A huge guarantee? He has a bad wheel. If they know his time is severely limited, they are going for the gold. Paying it may not make much sense for the team in terms of return on the dollar. I would think, though I am not certain, that Savage would insist that extensive medical evaluation be done before any contract would be renegotiated. Just a thought or two.


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CalDawg #267990 05/15/08 03:32 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

I don't see what it would benefit Winslow from holding out.




A huge guarantee? He has a bad wheel. If they know his time is severely limited, they are going for the gold. Paying it may not make much sense for the team in terms of return on the dollar. I would think, though I am not certain, that Savage would insist that extensive medical evaluation be done before any contract would be renegotiated. Just a thought or two.




I would think Winslow might not want to have too much scrutiny of that knee. It would seriously hinder his ability to get a big contract anywhere else. He's a brilliant player but his career could end at any second.

Cleveland may very well be the only game in town for Mr. Winslow. Imagine how unhappy he'd be if he was still chained to a crappy organization like the one that drafted him.

The deal will get done. I'm sure glad I don't get the PD down here.


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jeepnstein #267991 05/15/08 03:38 PM
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It would seem that another good year by K2 would make the team more than willing to talk contract with him at the end of the season, so if the contract is an issue, I have to wonder if the fragility of his knee is what is driving this, (if it's being driven and if that is what Rosenhaus is angling for).


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CalDawg #267992 05/15/08 03:47 PM
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Quote:

It would seem that another good year by K2 would make the team more than willing to talk contract with him at the end of the season, so if the contract is an issue, I have to wonder if the fragility of his knee is what is driving this, (if it's being driven and if that is what Rosenhaus is angling for).




I dunno man, he caught 89 passes 2 years ago and broke Newsomes yardage record last year... I don't know what more he needs to prove besides that hes healthy.


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WinslowBodden #267993 05/15/08 03:53 PM
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Quote:

Quote:



It would seem that another good year by K2 would make the team more than willing to talk contract with him at the end of the season, so if the contract is an issue, I have to wonder if the fragility of his knee is what is driving this, (if it's being driven and if that is what Rosenhaus is angling for).




I dunno man, he caught 89 passes 2 years ago and broke Newsomes yardage record last year... I don't know what more he needs to prove besides that hes healthy.





I only say this because he still has three years left on his contract. (If I'm not mistaken.)

Pdawg #267994 05/15/08 03:56 PM
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I am not willing to dismiss what they are saying. I do not believe what they say is gospel, but I can draw conclusions from what we do know.




I'm pretty sure we all do that Pdawg,, to one extent or the other anyway.

And to be honest, if I only heard it once from each reporter that Winslow might be missing the OTA's in a contract issue.. then I, like you would view it as an opinion and move on..

But man, every story they write that refers to Winslow,, they bring it up.. each and every time.

To me, that's not reporting, it's trying to build public opinion. That's not telling it like it is, that's telling it like they want it to be..

Like I said, I read these stories,, gleen what there is to get and move on. But when it's a constant harping on one issue.. it's pretty transparent to me what they are attempting to do..

And yeah, I rail against it...


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WinslowBodden #267995 05/15/08 03:57 PM
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I dunno man, he caught 89 passes 2 years ago and broke Newsomes yardage record last year... I don't know what more he needs to prove besides that hes healthy.







That is the entire point. He has played on one leg the past two years. Being on one leg is his fault. If I was sure he can stay healthy I'd make him the highest paid TE. Hell, I'd pay him as an elite receiver, he is that good. He should feel lucky he has a career at all. He is playing at what, 80%? Maybe 90%? To most others that wouldn't be enough to make it in the NFL.

I think he needs to do what is in his best interest. What that is, I don't know. I know his decision making in the past has been terrible. Whatever he is doing now (whether he is considering sitting out or not) I hope he listens to someone who is wise.


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Pdawg #267996 05/15/08 04:03 PM
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That is the entire point. He has played on one leg the past two years. Being on one leg is his fault.




This is a very valid point. I do feel though, that while it was a bonehead mistake, he has earned the right to move past that particular asterisk. My problem resides with the terms he agreed to when he restructured being invalidated by a snake like Rosenhaus. But it's only business, right?


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CalDawg #267997 05/15/08 04:12 PM
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The thing I have a problem with is that he is a huge health risk now, and it is because of his own actions. I would think that redoing his contracts with huge payouts if he is able to play is the right way to go. Huge upfront guarentees would be foolish, and I don't think he should ever expect them at this point. I do think we should compensate him for what he has done.

I hate when athletes want to rip up their contract anytime they do something good. The thing is, it's now seems to be the norm. Not only that, but teams have no quams about making players restructure their deals when it suits them. Or even cutting them, since players deals aren't guarenteed.


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Pdawg #267998 05/15/08 04:22 PM
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I agree, but we both know large guarantees are the cornerstones of contract agreements now. If they were to do an incentive/performance laden restructure with minimal guarantees, I would see that as a good deal, especially if it would lock him up and shut Rosenhaus up for five years. (Assuming he can last that long.)


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CalDawg #267999 05/15/08 06:07 PM
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Needs, values and motivations are what makes the world go around. If KWjr. wants more he knows he'll have to do more... For the right value why wouldn't the Browns want more too. Another 100 or two more yards, 10 more catches, a couple TD's and a playoff birth, along with the proper mental approach, improved poise and maturity might be worth a fist full of more dollars...

Why not restructure the contract incentives only... Leave the length and G money the same? If KWjr hits certain production numbers, top 4 TE's and a P-Bowl, different numbers for alternate PB selection... Remember that old finacial commerical, "he'll earn it"... A win, win is a win, win for all... Jr. is a top 5-10 NFL TE, depending on your perspective...

Issues can arrise with chemistry and a true team focus when players aren't getting the rock enough to hit the nums... Jr. is known for not being a mental giant, has exibited his fair share of selfishness and lack of poise at times...

We shall see..

Boisebanger #268000 05/16/08 10:18 AM
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j/c

I emailed a local sports reporter (who shall remain nameless) regarding Winslow. This was my letter:

"I just had a question regarding Kellen Winslow. You have said, as have a number of other sportswriters, that Kellen Winslow is, ostensibly, not attending the OTAs because of his contract situation.

Outside of the minuscule comment he made in February, what other evidence exists that proves that he’s 'holding out'?"

This was the reply I received:

"Phil Savage acknowledges Winslow wants a new contract and might be posturing toward that."


I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
Boisebanger #268001 05/16/08 10:27 AM
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Quote:

Why not restructure the contract incentives only.



Because the Browns already did when he breached his contract.....and he GUSHED at the time how nice it was of them to do so......and because he is coming off of surgery.

It's a quid pro quo thing........

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"Phil Savage acknowledges Winslow wants a new contract and might be posturing toward that."




Right. So Phil read the same article we all did in February and says that MIGHT be why Kellen isn't here. Since when does 1 + 1 = 3?

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Did U and kardiak come down with the last drop of rain??? sometimes what u two post makes me think U seriously did ..

I agree .. most of the MEDIA STINKS .. and they come to inane conclusions just like most of U folks .. difference is they get paid to sell papers ..

I mean for U guys to just blow it off is as assinine as them saying its definelty over a new contract .. actually their conclusion is WAY MORE VALID THAN YOURS ... look at the evidence ...

1. KW HIRED DREW .......

2. KW HIRED DREW .....

I said it twice cause it is a HUGE RED FLAG .. why????

A. Who do u hire when u want a contract torn up pre-maturely and a new one???

B. Whens the last time someone hired Drew in the middle of a contract and didn't hold out for a new one????

HUGE HUGE RED FLAG RIGHT THERE ...

2. KW said he HOPED for a new contract .... could be he is actually hoping .... OR it could be a smart way of saying it without another PR nightmare ...

3. he is saying he will let Drew handle that .. HANDLE WHAT pray tell??????????? what do u guys think ... Drew going to call them up and say ... "Opie ... we know hes under contract and we hope in good faith you;ll give him a new one ... but if u choose not to he will be their with bells on and wont say a word .. we just HOPE you;ll do it out of the kindness of your heart" ...

Ya .. thats why he hired Drew and how that convo would go ... *LOL* ...

4. Kardiak said that drew is not running his mouth so nothing is up cause he always runs his mouth .. well he said NO COMMENT at this time ... I didn't see him REFUTE ANYTHING ... but its all good ..

my guess is .. and this is what I would write if I were a paid pro ... (and if i were a paid pro my goal would be to sell papers cause folks wanted to read me cause i was pretty fair and accurate and not because i came up with grandiose theories and BS over things like most in C-towns media and on this board do) ..

anyhow ... heres my take ...

At some point before TC there will either be a new contract signed or KW will be a "holdout" ... meaning he will either be there but to hurt to participate or he will come right out and say it ...

as of right now Opie and Drew are talking about it ... and thats why Drew is keeping his mouth shut ..... if things don't go Drew's way at some point he will be flapping his gums and we'll see his mug on ESPN like we do every year ... that will be more than likely be later than sooner as KW wants to avoid the PR nightmare a "declared holdout" would bring upon him ...




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You may be right Diam (notice how I can say that without insulting anyone) but until I hear from Kellen, Drew, or Phil that he is 'holding out because he wants a new contract', this is a dead story to me. I'm not denying that it may BECOME a story later on in the summer, as you said, especially if Drew doesn't get his way. But as of now, this is nothing more than the media throwing crap against the wall and hoping some of it will stick. Nobody is talking and it drives them crazy. So they report on what they THINK is happening based on the limited information they can add toegther. Seems to me some dude at the Boston Herald got himself into some pretty hot water for doing basically the same thing. You may have heard the story. I dunno, something about some videotapes.

Kardiac12 #268005 05/17/08 07:55 AM
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Quote:

this is a dead story to me. I'm not denying that it may BECOME a story later on in the summer, as you said, especially if Drew doesn't get his way. But as of now, this is nothing more than the media throwing crap against the wall and hoping some of it will stick.




I can't agree w/that. I think K2 is our best player and I've always defended him, even after the motorcycle accident. However, it's pretty obvious that something is up w/the contract.

--He hired Drew R.
--He has talked about it a couple of times.
--Drew has talked about it.
--Savage has acknowledged it.
--We moved up in the draft to get a TE w/a similar skill set.
--K2 is missing time in the OTAs.

Kardiac, this goes way beyond the media slinging crap. And the story is certainly not dead. It may be hibernating, but it isn't dead. Believe that.


"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
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Versatile Dawg #268006 05/17/08 08:15 AM
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Weren't his last agents the Postons??

It is my understand they have been decertified by the NFLPA for a few years.

No big deal to Winslow. They could still work for him seeking endorsement money and such..they just can't do direct work with the NFL contracts.

So, hiring someone new means he wants some direct work done on his contract.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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j/c

Savage indicated Winslow's absence might be a combination of recovering from arthroscopic surgery and gaining leverage toward a new contract.

Savage said Winslow wasn't expected to be ready for current voluntary practices but might be able to go in the minicamp.

"I'm not really sure that it's that big a deal," he said.



Kardiac12 post-mid-page


So it appears he can't, nor was he expected to, participate until minicamp. It also appears that the reason he isn't rehabing here may be contract related.

So everybody's right.


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I really don't care about being right. I just know how important K2 is to this offense and team. Things just don't look good when you combine all the bits of news.


"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
Versatile Dawg #268009 05/17/08 08:26 AM
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Quote:

--He hired Drew R.
--He has talked about it a couple of times.
--Drew has talked about it.
--Savage has acknowledged it.
--We moved up in the draft to get a TE w/a similar skill set.
--K2 is missing time in the OTAs.




The 1st 4 there are facts for sure...Definitely Contract related...

TE in the draft???...This one isn't Winslow Hold-Out Driven...That's where Grossi gets slammed all the time...You don't trade up and give future picks away for PROTECTION against a potential hold-out...That's P-Poor drafting philosophy...This one was 3 things IMO...

1) We see Winslow for what he is...FIVE surgeries on the SAME knee...
2) Heiden and Dinkins are both upgradeable...
3) Chud's offense is highly driven by the TE spot...

Until we hear that an OFFER has been REJECTED...There's zero problem with this...


Go Browns!!!
DiamDawg #268010 05/17/08 08:28 AM
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Quote:

Did U and kardiak come down with the last drop of rain??? sometimes what u two post makes me think U seriously did ..




Is it really necessary to insult people when you speak to them.,. Kid, if you were my son I'd wash your mouth out with soap,,

I don't generally mind when someone disagrees with me.. it's ok by me. No problem. Where I have a problem is with guys like you who are insulting, Rome Clone Wannabee, Smack artists who think it's "really cool" to talk (write) in a staccato fashion because you think it makes you sound tough and smart and knowlegable..

It doesn't, it makes you sound like a fool.


It's really a shame that most of your thinking, which most always has merit, has to be laced with insults..


#GMSTRONG

“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan

"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Damanshot #268011 05/17/08 08:36 AM
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Quote:

It doesn't, it makes you sound like a fool.


It's really a shame that most of your thinking, which most always has merit, has to be laced with insults..




Having those two sentences back-to-back is ironic.


"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
Versatile Dawg #268012 05/17/08 09:03 AM
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Maybe it's ironic, but it's also accurate in my view.

His constant insults are often times laced with real useful info and, "ironically", some/most of that information is stuff I agree with..

I just have a hard time getting past the "Diam the Insult Dawg" and "Rome Clone Wannabee" act to get to the meat of his comments..

Call it Ironic if you want.. be my guest, but it's also exactly how I see it..


#GMSTRONG

“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan

"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
Versatile Dawg #268013 05/17/08 09:20 AM
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Okay. I just think it's a bit premature to be connecting all those dots Vers. If he's a no-show when the mandatory workouts begin, then I'll be all over the "hold-out" thing. But I just get tired of the whole "Oh my God, the sky is falling... K2's not at OTAs" sensationalism that's going around. So what? He's not here. For now, I don't see it as this huge ominous sign of disaster on the horizon. Granted, it's the optimisitic season, so maybe that's where my head's at. But until K2 gives some further indication that he is definitely demanding a new contract and will hold out until he gets one, I'm not zeroing in on the panic button. In all actuality, it's not the 'signs' of a hold-out that I'm contesting here. Those points are all valid. It's the hype that the media is spewing about it. I'm just not ready to lose any sleep over this yet. But that's just me man, you guys think what you want

Damanshot #268014 05/17/08 11:12 AM
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"I hope that's not bad news."

Just reading and responding to your post at the beginning of the thread, don't know if much or how much has changed as the thread progressed so don't know if my response is Too Late???

Bad news??? on Shaun Rogers, actually we have now learned good news - Rogers is concentrating solely on the NT position. All parties (Rogers n Staff) agreed that two positions got a little too confusing, I'm sure its in his future but he is now concentrating all his technique and learning the system via ONE POSITION NT...once he gets it then he can try learning the nuances of the DE position in our 3-4!

"Or it could be the same as last year when he worked out somewhere else instead of here."

Regarding Winslow's absence to OTA's.

Actually if If I recollect correctly, I seem to remember KW2 here in last year's OTAs after having his Microfracture surgery...chomping at the bit, running in the sand - rehabbing that knee just like JJ, Heiden and Baxter are here and rehabbing. Actually this worries me as KW2 has the Devil for his Agent and he is exhibiting some MEism that seemed to be shattered after doing just that to his knee 3 years ago. Has Rosenhaus been able to rear its ugly head! This does worry me and Rucker was not chosen to replace KW2...sure he could possibly develop into a good TE 2-3 years down the road. But he ain't no KW2. Not a disaster but I don't like this one bit, not when we have a track record of KW2 working hard and being with the team rehabbing and now a different action!

"Well, then I'm glad we fired him."

On WMcG and Gratham - possibly it was McG who smelled out the rat and advised RAC on the sabotage at brew!

JMHO


Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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CHRIST HAS RISEN!

GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
eotab #268015 05/17/08 11:50 AM
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Quote:

Bad news??? on Shaun Rogers, actually we have now learned good news




Like you said, other things have been reported to make me not worry about it at all now..


Quote:

Actually if If I recollect correctly, I seem to remember KW2 here in last year's OTAs after having his Microfracture surgery




Yes, you are right,, I've since been corrected,, I confused years and made a bad assumption.

But it still only slightly changes my thinking.. I still think he'll be here and he'll play his heart out and I think he'll do it no matter what his contract circumstances are.

My reason is this, him sitting out after the amazingly stupid thing he did on the motor bike, then having the Browns work a deal with him so he could get back almost all that he lost. Basically being very fair with him,,

If he does a TO on the Browns after all that, he would be viewed as a complete moron. The media would crucify him. The fallout could damage his reputation for years to come and could jeopardize his earning potential after football..

I could be wrong, but it's just another way of lookiing at it..

Quote:

On WMcG and Gratham - possibly it was McG who smelled out the rat and advised RAC on the sabotage at brew!

JMHO




Willie and RAC have worked together for quite a while and they both have rings from those years.. so sure, I can see that being possible..


#GMSTRONG

“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan

"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Damanshot #268016 05/17/08 08:04 PM
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Just Clickin'...


Savage entertains local crowd
Browns GM, scout with Tiffin roots handle questions from audience

By Dave Feltner, Sports Editor, dfeltner@advertiser-tribune.com
POSTED: May 16, 2008


He entered to a highlight film recounting the Browns’ memorable 2007 season. He exited to the customary “Woof! Woof! Woof!” from the peanut gallery.

In between, Browns General Manager Phil Savage — along with Columbian graduate Donovan Beidelschies — regaled a crowd at Camden Falls with tales about his rise to NFL hierarchy.

Beidelschies is getting his feet wet in the NFL, working for Savage as a scout, and the connection between the two brought the Browns GM to town for the Don Hall Memorial Foundation benefitting Tiffin Little League Football.

Here are some excerpts from their question-and-answer session with attendees.



Savage on the hiring of Beidelschies and two other new scouts:

“The great thing about that is we bring these guys in, [and] they seem to have a passion on scouting, and we’re basically able to train them for two years before we ever really put them out on the road. ... I’m proud to say that of the 12 guys we’ve hired over the years, every single one of them has progressed up through the ranks. Some of them are directors. T.J. McCray, our personnel director, in 1997 was sitting right where Donovan is, and 11 years later he’s the personnel director for the Cleveland Browns. Even though Donovan was [scouting] in Fargo this past fall, in a couple years he’ll be in Ann Arbor or Columbus. ... I’m certain about that because he enjoys what he does.”



Savage on switching from coaching under Nick Saban at Alabama to scouting:

“Probably the main reason I did it was because I didn’t like having a hole in the back of my pants where Nick Saban chewed it,” he joked, bringing on a roomful of laughter. “On a serious note, I had gone to a small college myself. I’m 43-years-old, and next season will be my 36th football season, so I’ve just grown up with it. I decided to try my hand at coaching, and I hooked on at the University of Alabama — I’m from Alabama — and I spent three years at Alabama, and I went to UCLA, then found myself with the Browns under [Bill] Belichick and Nick. One thing Bill does with the Patriots ... is he lets his young guys cross over from coaching into scouting. I spent those three years with Nick on the defensive side of the ball, and I was a quarterback and offensive coach, so it was a whole different learning experience for me. Ultimately, Bill said to us, ‘We’re looking at drafting defensive backs, so I want you guys to go with us to a college on a Friday, watch the kid play Saturday and be back up with the team for Sunday.’ I did that in the Fall of ‘92, and in ‘93 I did the same thing.’ In ‘94, I think Bill felt some pressure to bring in an experienced coach. [Former Alabama Head Coach] Bill Curry was quoted in the paper the other day, saying ‘I remember when Phil was with us, he looked like he was 10-years-old.’ Sometimes, that hurt me in my coaching career, really.”



Beidelschies on scouting:

“You try to identify players when they’re a junior [in college]. By the time the draft rolls around, and we’re in our draft meetings, some of the players are gonna have 10 or 12 or 15 reports on them. They go through every detail that you can dig up on a player.

“The most detailed report is from the area scout who’s near the school. It’s the scout’s job to go to one or two games a year and make sure you get all the background and make sure you cover all your bases like talking to an academic liason and the athletic trainer and all the coaches. My experience I’ve built on going to different schools is that the more information you can get, the better. All that information gets piled together, and it all gets back to fill, and then the decisions get made.”



Savage on the rumblings of a holdout from tight end Kellen Winslow:

“This is a unique situation with us. Obviously, he was drafted by the previous regime. He was right at the top of the board with the Ravens; he’s a tremendous talent. From our side of things is this is someone who was payed $11.6 million for two seasons, and he played two games. We could have just dropped the anvil on the contract and just moved on and been done with the situation. But we felt like he was a talented player who was worthy of giving another opportunity, another chance if you will.

“He came back, and I don’t think there’s any question that he’s a big-time threat, and he’s advantageous to the offense. We restructured his contract and put an extra year on it. He’s got three seasons left as a Cleveland Brown. On one hand, we feel like we were very forgiving with Kellen. ... And (with his severe injuries), there is some concern long-term for Kellen. We’d love for Kellen to come back and have a great year this year, and [then] let’s talk about it. There’s been some noise out there, if you will, about this situation, but it’s only May 15. ... I think only time will tell how this plays itself out.”



Savage on getting his NFL start with the Browns, moving to Baltimore when Art Modell moved the team, then returning to Cleveland and leading a resurgence in the Browns franchise:

“It is confusing to try to tell somebody that I was at Alabama, then I went to UCLA, and I came to the Browns, then we became the Ravens, and now I’m back with the ‘new’ Browns. People have a tough time figuring that out if they’re not a Browns or a Ravens fan. Cleveland was my first exposure to the NFL, and you get a chance to see the fans and how much they truly love the Browns. The Cavs are doing well, and the Indians are doing well, but the fans love the Browns. ... It’s great.

“I’ve interviewed for GM positions five different times, and as exciting as all those were, the Browns have such a great tradition. You’re talking about Paul Brown, Jim Brown, Otto Graham, [Bill] Willis, Paul Warfield, Ozzie Newsome, Clay Matthews. There’s just a long line of history there, and it means something to a lot of people. ... When you’re scouting for the Browns, you feel like you’re scouting for the entire city and other cities in Ohio. I think there were 13 of us who went to Baltimore, and of that group I’m the only who’s come back. It’s kind of interesting how all that happened.”


linkage


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ddubia #268017 05/17/08 10:29 PM
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Quote:

Savage on the rumblings of a holdout from tight end Kellen Winslow:

“This is a unique situation with us. Obviously, he was drafted by the previous regime. He was right at the top of the board with the Ravens; he’s a tremendous talent. From our side of things is this is someone who was payed $11.6 million for two seasons, and he played two games. We could have just dropped the anvil on the contract and just moved on and been done with the situation. But we felt like he was a talented player who was worthy of giving another opportunity, another chance if you will.

“He came back, and I don’t think there’s any question that he’s a big-time threat, and he’s advantageous to the offense. We restructured his contract and put an extra year on it. He’s got three seasons left as a Cleveland Brown. On one hand, we feel like we were very forgiving with Kellen. ... And (with his severe injuries), there is some concern long-term for Kellen. We’d love for Kellen to come back and have a great year this year, and [then] let’s talk about it. There’s been some noise out there, if you will, about this situation, but it’s only May 15. ... I think only time will tell how this plays itself out.”




Good read on that subject. I'm with Phil 100% on that one.


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Sure seems to me that there is smoke. I guess all those reporters weren't just making things up...At least not this time.


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