DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum How can we complain to OPEC about oil shortages when we...

I wonder at what point it is more cost effective to use synthetic oil to produce fuel, than crude oil?

We need to recycle all oil, Cooking oil can be used in diesel engines so why don't we use it?

Cost. Diesel is still cheaper than vegetable oil.

You got some folks out there recycling used fryer fat into biodiesel, but they are able to do it because the demand is currently nil.

Oh the joy of 3.79 a gallon for gas we shelled out over 330 bucks in gas just for one week.

can we complain to OPEC whe we drive extremely innefficient cars. no.

we dug ourselves into a SUV hole. now lets get out of it.

It has nothing to do with rudderless ship or leadership or any of that. The plain fact of the matter is that at this there is not a VIABLE alternative out there. Not one alternative energy source that comes close to the energy output of oil and fossil feuls..and not one that is anywhere near as CHEAP.

And the sheer cost of not only developing that alternative energy source, but then transforming the country's infrastructure is mind boggling compared to what we are complaning about now.

There is no magic bullet out there. and frankly I agree with several others out there that the answer is to allow more oil exploration, build more refineries, while AT THE SAME TIME, exploring other alternative sources of energy and slowly transforming the infrastructure to accomodate alternative energy sources.

People act as if we already have the answer....well I hate to dissapoint them...but we don't. The theories are there. The technology is getting there, The manufafacturing of this technology has a long way to go. The infrastructure is no where near ready to handle anything, and frankly we really don't know what the ramifications are of using the alternative energy sources. I mean just look at what the E85 did to food prices....woops...didn't see that coming....

I saw a program (I think on Discovery Science) where a guy was building what ammounted to underwater windmills to generate electricity in New York City's East River. He was using the tidal currents....the currents push the blades, the blades turn, the generator makes electricity. Sounds great. And the whole time I am watching this, I have this nagging thought in the back of my head. They kept talking about filling the place up with these impellers and he could practically handle the electrical needs of the entire city (I don't remember how big of an area).....But I kept having this nagging thought......they kept treating this as if it was free energy.....but as any Physicist knows that energy isn't free. The tides would lose energy as they get further down the line of these impellars...the water would get slower and slower...OK...fine I am sure they thought of that in their calculations concerningthe power computations....but did they consider what that will do to the marine life that depends on tidal movements? or what than means for the silt that is moved out by the tides that would now most likely have to be dredged out.....dredged out between all of these rotaing blades......How will that affect the shipping traffic that is dependent upon the tidal flows.....Yet some people would be calling for this to be implemented Now...I mean it is pollution free...we aren't damming up anythign..and supposedly the only drawback may be wave height is reduced but not tidal height....

The problem is that WE JUST DON'T KNOW AS MUCH AS WE THINK WE DO!!!!!!!!!!!!! And While this may be very promising, there is way too much that we do not know about it. The theory is there. The technology it getting there...The manufacturing for this has a ways to go...and so on....

We simply are not ready to just flip the switch and do an Emeril BAM into alternative energy sources. The costs are FAR too great. But making intelligent and prudent moves in that direction while at the same time trying to aleve some of our current issues of foreign oil through increased drilling and more refineries is definitely something we should be doing.

jk

CNN did a SIU report called "Out of Gas" Here's my little take on it. I'll put up a spoiler warning here in case anyone is going to watch it on Sunday


This is a report that shows how addicted to oil we are and what could happen if the supply line was hit. It plays out a hypothetical situation where a hurricane causes severe damage to refineries in Texas followed by a terrorist attack in Saudi Arabia that severely compromises the worlds oil supply. The problem here is supply and demand(as it always has been) that oil producing countries are starting to have problems keeping up with demand.

Some notes touched in the show:
-America accounts for 25% of world oil consumption using about 21 million barrels a day, our domestic sources of oil is dropping
-China is second largest in consumption of oil and is expected to increase consumption by 20 million barrels/day in the next decade
-The demand for oil continues to increase and is getting to a point where Saudi's cannot keep up with demand, thus causing in increase in prices
-There is plenty of oil still in the earth, but it cannot be brought out fast enough
-In addition to not getting oil out fast enough, they have drilled the easy places, it is becoming more difficult to drill for oil
-There was no reference to Bush until the end when they point out his failure to make alternate energy a top priority after 9-11

This was pretty spot on imo, however did not give me anything I didn't already know. It did use a possible scenario that would make whats happening today look like nothing. We are addicted to oil. The worlds thirst for oil grows on a daily basis and oil companies can't pull it out of the ground fast enough. You can point fingers at bush, demand taxes on the oil companies all you want, that is not going to decrease the demand for oil. We need to become less reliant on oil. As the world population continues to grow, demand continues to increase, it's only a matter of time before countries go to war over these resources.

. "You can point fingers at bush, demand taxes on the oil companies all you want, that is not going to decrease the demand for oil. We need to become less reliant on oil. As the world population continues to grow, demand continues to increase, it's only a matter of time before countries go to war over these resources. "

As a human needs oxygen to breathe...so does our economy need oil.

Might as well ask us to stop using steel in building as to stop oil usage.

True !....It's Never good to expect someone else to put your interest first ....The Bottom Line IMO is that we can not allow ourselves to be held hostage by being forced to import oil from nations who want to rack us over the coals.....As soon as we no longer have a need to import oil from countries hostile to America the better....

Just clicking....

How can people complain about gas prices when....

-Some of my friends complain about filling up a truck that their parents pay the gas for.... RIIIIIGHT
-They just don't take an overall proactive solution to doing something about it to save money... like carpooling when possible, riding a damn bike, not driving around unnecessarily

Seriously... I live 7-8 miles away from town out in the country... I find it therapeutic, relaxing, and envigorating all in one to just ride my bike... and save money doing it. It's not a one size fits all solution... but we're freaking FAT in this country, it saves money, and is actually a solution. The point I'm trying to make here... just do something instead of complaining constantly about it without doing something.

just clicking.

Interesting if you do the math, and I would bet that alot more than 25% of the SUV's being driven, are driven by people with a NEED for a large vehicle.


As of 2004 there were 243,023,485 registered passenger vehicles in the US.

136,430,651 (56.13%) were classified as cars
91,845,327 (37.79%) were classified as "Other 2 axle, 4 tire vehicles," presumably SUVs and pick-up trucks
6,161,028 (2.53%) were classified as vehicles with 2 axles and 6 tires
2,010,335 (0.82%) were classified as "Truck, combination."
5,780,870 motorcycles


Now lets say the Cars get an average of 20 mpg, SUV & trucks get 16 mpg, and we will just say everyone puts 15k a year on the vehicle.


15,000 / 20 = 750 gallons per year per car
136,430,651 x 750 = 102,322,988,250 gallons of gas used by cars a year

Now, let's assume 50% of those cars switched to hybrids, averaging 35mpg.
15,000 / 35 = 428.5 gallons per year per car
136,430,651 x .50 = 68,215,325.5
68,215,325.5 x 428.5 = 29,230,266,976.7
68,215,325.5 x 750 = 51,161,494,125
29,230,266,976.7 + 51,161,494,125 = 80,391,761,101.7

102,322,988,250 - 80,391,761,101 = 21,931,227,149 gallons saved per year
1 barrel of oil (44 gallons) produces about 20 gallons of refined fuel.

21,931,227,149 / 20 = 1,096,561,357 barrels of oil saved per year
21,000,000 x 365 = 7,665,000,000
1,096,561,357 / 7,665,000,000 = 14% fewer barrels needed





15,000 / 16 = 937.5 gallons per year per SUV/Truck
91,845,327 x 937.5 = 86,104,994,062.5 gallons of gas used by SUV/Trucks per year

Now if 25% of the SUV owners traded in for Hybrids
91,845,327 x .25 = 22,961,331
22,961,331 x 428.5 (from our 35mpg avg) = 9,838,930,333
91,845,327 x .75 = 68,883,995
68,883,995 x 937.5 = 64,578,745,312

9,838,930,333 + 64,578,745,312 = 74,417,675,645

86,104,994,062 - 74,417,675,645 = 11,687,318,417 gallons gaved per year
11,687,318,417 / 20 = 584,365,920 barrels of oil saved per year

1,096,561,357 (barrels saved by cars) + 584,365,920 = 1,680,927,277 total barrels saved
1,680,927,277 / 7,665,000,000 = 21.9% fewer barrels needed