DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cavs & NBA Draft

While Brand may be "the guy," I am somewhat convinced that this "second option" needs to be a guy that can get to the rim from the outside. Big guys can do a lot of good things, but since they dont have the ball as much, it is that much harder for them to "take control" of an NBA game. I still think the guy to get is Redd. If there is ANY way we can get him, I go all in and take the risk. Just think about how energized our franchise would be if we had him. LB and him would KNOW they can take it all next season. He would get so many good looks on this team its crazy. He MAKES 3's, can weave his way to the bucket, can easily go off for 40 any given nite, and MAKES FREE THROWS. Who knows, JMO..

Then I sit back and think about when we got Larry. I remember we were all excited since he was a "slasher," a guy that could create his own shot and get to the bucket at will. Well, Larry became a fragile jumpshooter the minute he put on the wine and gold.

I am with you on taking the BEST player on the board in the draft...

If the cavs got michael redd along with elton brand I would pass out. Either of them would make this team incredible but both would be unbelievable.

Well yeah we sure as hell wont get both...

Just thought of something, so roll with me here guys..

I was just thinking that with Redd on the olympic team, it could really help. The olympic team has its first organized events on the 26th of June. They are gonna spend a lot of time together. With Redd and LB speniding all this time together, you know they are gonna talk about it. Redd now knows he made the wrong decision staying w the Bucks, and now LB will really plant the seed with him in terms of talking about teaming up in C-Town. Maybe Redd will really start being ornary with the Bucks (more ornary than he already is). I just get the feeling that being team mates on the Olympic team, it will help the situation a bit...

I am prolly crazy, who knows...

WE ALREADY HAVE THE DEFENSE!!

Sometimes you gotta give up a little D to get that world class O. Hell, if we lose a TAD on the defensive end, we will still be in the top 1/4 of the league. Defense is much more about system and effort. Mike Brown has shown he can coach defense, so whoever comes in will become a better defender just entering our system. The problem is not the D at all..


KG would not be the same without BOTH of those guys. KG went into a situation where he could be comfy, he doesn't have to take the big shots. Like you mentioned, the guys that made their big shots all year were Allen and Pierce. To compare Redd to Sasha Vujacic?

i myself would rather have brand, but i sure as hell wouldn't cry all night if it ended up being redd... either one of them makes us a much better team, and i think it puts us into that "elite" class of nba teams...

right now i think we're the first team on the outside of that group, we're scrappy, pesky, whatever you want to call it... we're a team that no one wants to play a 7-game series with, but we're also a team that nobody is going to pick to win it all...

i think elton brand could make some of our perimeter players better. can you imagine the space on the outside with brand and z on the floor? jesus christ, you could probably put AC out there and he'd get you 15 points...

however, getting elton brand still leaves a hole at the 2-guard position... sasha pavlovic took 2 steps back after taking a step forward last year, can he be the guy? how can we really know?

gibson? love him, but right now he's too important as a spark off the bench...

there's wally, but you have to assume he would be part of the brand deal...

if sasha can get back to the '07 sasha, i think we could set ourselves up nicely...

because, then off the bench you have gibson, big ben, joe smith/anderson varejao (one of those guys could be used in an elton brand deal)

a lot of it depends on how much danny ferry can screw elgin baylor...

we can argue whether it should be redd, or brand all day and night, but honestly, i don't care, i just want to see another guy added to this team that can make us a championship squad, because we're close

also, a move like this could spark this team to play better during the regular season

and we've all witnessed how important home court is, it was the only difference between us and the team that just raised a championship banner.

and really, every cavs team since lebron has been drafted has been lackluster during the season... and the problem is they don't take care of business against the teams you should beat 9 times out of 10, the knicks, bobcats, nets, etc...

their record against the elite teams this year was pretty damn good...

2-2 against boston, 2-0 against the lakers, they split series' with dallas and san antonio...

so although unlikely, if the cavs could get something done before the season starts, i think they have this refreshed attitude coming into the season, and make it a goal to shoot for 60 wins...

boston will be good again, detroit will still be solid, orlando and atlanta have gotten better, but really this eastern conference belongs to nobody.

you have to take advantage of that...

I just looked at the trade machine ... Elton Brand is in the final year of his contract too. I'm not so sure L.A. is going to want to trade him and just get a bunch of other expiring contracts back in return. Do we have anything that's going to make them want to unload him? Is Daniel Gibson and a few low draft picks going to be enough? Expiring contracts aren't going to cut it in his case.

Now Michael Redd is a different story. Three years left on a 14 million dollar contract, and they WANT to unload him anyway.

I would REALLY like Brand. If we could get him and another player it could put us over the top. Lebron himself said he thinks we are "one and a half players away from a championship". I think at least one of those players needs to be a superstar. No more of these "role players".

The bolded makes me mad....

Getting a handle on Varejao rumors
June 19th, 2008

There has been an uptick in Anderson Varejao rumors bouncing around the last couple of days. Today, ESPN’s Chad Ford floated one involving the Golden State Warriors. Earlier this week, Beacon Journal columnist Patrick McManamon wrote an excellent column summing up Varejao’s situation.

So with all that out there, let me tell you what I know about what has been going on.

–The Cavs have had trade talks with at least five teams about Varejao. But these talks have three sides, the Cavs, the potential trading partner and Varejao’s agent, Dan Fegan. Because Andy has to give permission to be traded before Dec. 5 (a stipulation when a player has an offer sheet matched by his team), he must be in the loop before a deal can be done. This permission will be given (he cannot be traded to the Bobcats under any circumstances until Dec.) only if Fegan likes the chances of Varejao getting big minutes and having an important role at his new destination. The reason is this is Varejao’s contract year essentially and a big season would mean a chance at the big deal Andy has wanted for a year. I also know that at least one trading partner has already been told “no” by Fegan. I do not know which team, but keep in mind as the Cavs are linked to the Milwaukee Bucks in trade rumors that Fegan also represents Yi Jianlian and probably would not like Varejao and Yi fighting for minutes with one another.
–Because of all these moving parts — there are three different sides able to pitch trades — any deal involving Varejao will be difficult to pull off right now. The Cavs do not have to trade him and they may wait and let the Dec. 5 deadline pass so they have more freedom. But obviously there is a market for Varejao and with the draft coming up, there’s an uptick in trying to get things done.
–The Cavs were pleased with how professionally Andy handled playing with Ben Wallace and even went to him and thanked him at the end of the season. But it is clear to both sides that Andy was not happy yielding crunch time minutes to Wallace and that is an issue that may become problematic next season when Varejao starts feeling the heat of playing another contract. With that in mind and the fear of losing Andy for nothing and/or going another 15 rounds with Fegan next summer, it is easy to see why the Cavs are open to trading their only big man under 30.
–There are a number of players the Cavs like in this draft. If anything, they are looking to move up in the draft or get a second pick instead of trading out as rumors have suggested. In addition, unless there is another rock solid plan in place, it is doubtful the Cavs would only trade Varejao unless they were getting another big man in return. It is questionable whether they can get an immediately contributing big with the 19th pick and losing Varejao would leave a huge hole because he is the team’s only legit backup center.
–I’ll have more on the draft over the weekend or early next week.

http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/cavs/

Test...

I hope they don't make that move with AV and #19 to the Warriors. I'm not an AV fan but I think they need a better player than what they'd get in return.

Who is the player in return?

j/c

Coming from somebody who doesn't know a ton about basketball, how about a deal to move up in the draft...I've heard the Knicks are desparately trying to rid themselves of Randolph:

Cavs get:
Zach Randolph
Jermome James
#6 Pick

Knicks get:
Anderson Varejao
Wally Szczerbiak
Sasha Pavlovic
#19 Pick

~Lyuokdea

This isn't that strong of a draft, and you'd be blowing through our expiring contracts to take on Zach Randolph and only get the #6 pick? Those expiring contracts might help us net somebody like Tracy McGrady or Michael Redd.

Fair enough, not really sure what a pick is worth

~Lyuokdea

Rumor mill is in spin mode
Bob Finnan, RFinnan@News-Herald.com
06/20/2008

Varejao to Warriors is unlikely


The Golden State Warriors are rumored to have interest in Cavaliers forward/center Anderson Varejao.However, a trade rumor circulated by ESPN.com - Varejao and the No. 19 pick to Golden State for second-year forward Brandan Wright - doesn't appear to have much validity.

The Warriors have a $10 million trade exception, which would make a deal like that work with the salary cap. They also apparently want to hold onto the 6-foot-9, 205-pound Wright, picked No. 8 by the Charlotte Bobcats in 2007 and dealt to the Warriors in the Jason Richardson trade.

The 20-year-old North Carolina product played in 38 games last year and averaged 4.0 points and 2.6 rebounds and shot 55.4 percent from the field.
A league source said it's nothing more than a rumor. The Cavs might be interested in such a deal, and the Warriors could use an inside presence.
However, Varejao can't be traded without his consent until one year has passed since he signed an offer sheet with Charlotte. He signed the three-year offer on Dec. 5. The Cavs matched it the next day. He would have to agree to a possible trade, which he might do in Golden State.

Sources say the Cavs have been quite active in trade talks in days leading up to the draft.If the Warriors made forward/center Al Harrington available, the Cavs might have an interest. Harrington, 28, averaged 13.6 points and 5.4 rebounds for the Warriors last season. The 6-9, 250-pounder will be entering his 11th season in the league.

He will earn $9.2 million this season and $10 million next year. It would take much more than Varejao to coax Harrington away from Golden State, however.


Rumors say the Cavs would be open to moving up and taking Kansas shooting guard Brandon Rush in Thursday's draft. They currently hold the No. 19 pick.

Seattle has four second-round picks in the draft (Nos. 32, 46, 50 and 56). The Cavs have reportedly talked to the SuperSonics about acquiring one of those selections.

Spanish shooting guard Juan Carlos Navarro, who played in Memphis last season, re-signed with FC Barcelona. The Cavs were reportedly interested in signing him.

Suns GM Steve Kerr said former Cavs coach Paul Silas is in the mix as the lead assistant coach in Phoenix. However, Nets assistant Bill Cartwright interviewed for that position on Tuesday.

©The News-Herald 2008

http://www.news-herald.com/site/news.cfm...21848&rfi=6

I wanted wright in last years draft but it would be insane to trade AV and a draft pick. IMO

I"m not sure if it has been posted in here, but I do know that Brian Windhorst has said that Andy has been turning down offers. He has the power to do so until Dec 5th, then after that, he can be traded without Andy's permission.

I want him gone, but he will only go to where he wants to be.

FYI: Here is the link to the blog if you want to read it.

http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/cavs/2008/06/19/getting-a-handle-on-varejao-rumors/

yeah, you kinda gotta figure that andy and his agent are going to be a problem...

i think with ben wallace around, we should definitely look to get rid of andy...

i wouldn't be surprised if andy wants to stay a cav this year, only because he knows he'll be on a good team that gets a lot of publicity, and also a team that is on television a lot...

that way he can get his money when his deal is up

and i guarantee that will be someplace else.

i like the guy, but he's not worth what he thinks he is...

i've said this for a year now, he's a slightly better version of fabricio oberto..

Quote:

---

he's a slightly better version of fabricio oberto..

---

Isnt that the guy that makes beef jerky

Trades notwithstanding, I think I've come to what I am comfortable with assuming we stay at #19. Though, I like the thinking of most on this board as far as trades go.

If we stay at 19, my 1 through 5 choices would be (in order).

1) Brandon Rush
2) Kosta Koufas
3) Courtney Lee
4) Chris Douglas-Roberts
5 tie) Mario Chalmers or DeAndre Jordan

At least 3 of those guys will be available.

If we were able to move up (outside of the top 5), I think my top 5 would be:

1) Eric Gordon
2) Joe Alexander
3) Russell Westbrook
4) Brook Lopez
5) Brandon Rush

OJ Mayo would be the guy if I could pick anyone.

Nice post.

I came across this in The News Herald and thought it was kinda interesting about the past CAVS drafts. (kinda long sorry)

First round not first rate for Cavs
Bob Finnan/BFinnan@News-Herald.com
NBA Notes

Drafting LeBron James was such a no-brainer, your grandmother could have made the pick.
But other than that stroke of genius in 2003, the Cavaliers have failed miserably in the first round of the NBA draft in the last decade.
The only saving grace was taking Utah point guard Andre Miller with the No. 8 pick in 1999.
But even after taking Miller, they turned around and flopped with the No. 11 selection - Duke shooting guard Trajan Langdon.
The following is a look at the Cavs' first-round picks in the last 10 years:
1998: The Cavs traded their first-round pick to Milwaukee, along with Terrell Brandon and Tyrone Hill, in exchange for Seattle's Shawn Kemp on Sept. 25, 1997. The SuperSonics received Vin Baker. The Bucks used the No. 19 pick on Notre Dame's Pat Garrity. The Cavs needed a star player and they thought Kemp would fit the bill.
1999: After Brevin Knight was shredded defensively in the 1998 playoffs by then Pacers point guard Mark Jackson, the Cavs decided they needed a bigger point guard. That led to the Cavs drafting Miller with the eighth pick in the first round. He turned out to be a fabulous player for the franchise and even led the NBA in assists in 2001-02. If Miami (Ohio) University swingman Wally Szczerbiak had been on the board (he was picked at No. 6 by Minnesota), the Cavs would have thought long and hard about drafting him. That's how high then GM Wayne Embry was on him at the time. When Miller's agent, Lon Babby, hinted at a "max" contract after his third season in Cleveland, the point guard was traded to the Los Angeles Clippers for Darius Miles. When GM Jim Paxson was considering that move, he asked for input from his staff. Supposedly, only assistant coach Ron Ekker had the guts to tell Paxson it would be a terrible mistake. The Cavs also had the 11th pick in '99 and used it on Langdon, who had an outstanding season for CSKA Moscow this year. He was a flop in the NBA, however. The Cavs had several options instead of Langdon, including Corey Maggette (No. 13 by Seattle), Ron Artest (No. 16 by Chicago), James Posey (No. 18 by Denver) and Andrei Kirilenko (No. 24 by Utah).
2000: Center Zydrunas Ilgauskas' future was in doubt after another foot surgery, so the Cavs needed another big man. They drafted Michigan guard Jamal Crawford at No. 8 and traded him to the Bulls, along with cash considerations, for Chicago's No. 7 pick, Texas center Chris Mihm. Had they kept Crawford, they might have been better off. Mihm wasn't terrible and had skills for a big man. Observers can still hear then Coach John Lucas calling him "Mihms" in his raspy voice. Mihm played a couple of foul-prone years in Cleveland before being dealt to Boston. The Cavs thought he was soft. He's now on the Los Angeles Lakers' roster.
2001: The Cavs had the eighth pick for the third consecutive year. Unfortunately, they didn't get the eighth-best player. They chose Oak Hill Academy center DeSagana Diop. Again, they felt they needed insurance in case Ilgauskas was nearing the end. He appeared in just 24 games in the 2000-01 season. Diop was a bit pudgy when he came to the Cavs, had knee issues and never really developed. Even though he helped the Mavericks make it to the NBA Finals a few years ago, he'll never be more than a backup center. Diop was sent to New Jersey this season in the blockbuster Jason Kidd deal. The Cavs let the Senegal native go as a free agent after the 2004-05 season. He averaged 1.6 points in his four-year Cavs career. Players they left on the draft board in 2001 were Joe Johnson (No. 10 by Boston), Richard Jefferson (No. 13 by Houston), Zach Randolph (No. 19 by Portland), Gerald Wallace (No. 25 by Sacrament0) and Tony Parker (No. 28 by San Antonio). The Cavs also had the No. 20 pick in the first round. In a prearranged deal, the Cavs drafted North Carolina center Brendan Haywood and sent him to Orlando for journeyman center Michael Doleac. The Cavs didn't think Haywood was worth a three-year, guaranteed contract, which was another blunder.
2002: They moved up to the No. 6 pick in '02 and Paxson allowed Lucas to talk him into Memphis guard DeJuan Wagner. Paxson supposedly wanted UConn swingman Caron Butler. Wagner, who once scored 100 points in a high school game in Camden, N.J., could put the ball in the hole. He just couldn't stay healthy and eventually fell out of their plans. "Juanny" had an assortment of physical problems, including a bad knee and a colon malady. The problem with drafting him was the players they left on the board, including Amare Stoudemire (No. 9 by Phoenix) and Butler (No. 10 by Miami). To the Cavs' credit, Stoudemire had refused to work out for them that year. Butler, though, thought he was headed to Cleveland. The Cavs also drafted Duke forward/center Carlos Boozer in the second round - No. 35 overall - in one of Paxson's best moves.
2003: The Cavs drafted James this season. No matter what one says about Paxson, he always has this pick on his record. He came back in the second round and selected UCLA shooting guard Jason Kapono with the 30th overall pick, another outstanding pick.
2004: The Cavs had the 10th pick in the draft and had a chance at some very good players, but once again took one who flopped terribly. Oregon swingman Luke Jackson was Paxson's choice. He immediately had issues with his back and eventually was traded to Boston for journeyman center Dwayne Jones. He played just two seasons and a total of 46 games with the Cavs. He'll always be remembered when his shot from the corner bounced off the side of the backboard. Some other players who might have made more sense were Latvian center Andris Biedrins (No. 11 by Golden State), prep forward/center Al Jefferson (No. 15 by Boston), high school forward Josh Smith (No. 17 by Atlanta) and St. Joseph point guard Jameer Nelson (No. 20 by Denver).
2005: The Cavs traded their first-round pick to Phoenix in the Wesley Person deal in 1997. It was lottery protected. The Suns later traded it to Charlotte, which selected North Carolina forward/center Sean May. But that wasn't the biggest error the Cavs made. They protected journeyman swingman Kedrick Brown and left Kapono exposed in the expansion draft. The Bobcats drafted Kapono, who evolved into one of the league's top 3-point shooters. Brown is no longer in the league.
2006: The Cavs had the No. 25 pick in the draft and used it on Michigan State shooting guard Shannon Brown. He was athletic, strong and could score. He wasn't able to play point guard because his ball-handling skills were weak. He also turned the ball over too much. He lasted a season and a half with the Cavs before being sent to Chicago in the 11-player, three-team trade on Feb. 21. He's an unrestricted free agent trying to find a home. The Cavs did strike it rich in the second round - again - when they picked Texas guard Daniel Gibson with the 42nd pick.
2007: They dealt away their first-round pick on Feb. 24, 2005, in exchange for guard Jiri Welsch. The Celtics ended up trading the pick to Portland, which used the No. 24 selection on Spanish guard Rudy Fernandez. Welsch will always be a part of Cavs' folk lore. Silas didn't care much for him as a player. He also hurt his knee in his first practice with the Cavs. But he'll always be remembered for his air ball in New Orleans Arena in a game against the Hornets. The shot missed the rim by at least 4 feet. James looked over at the bench after the shot with a quizzical expression on his face. He was given away to Milwaukee in the offseason and is now playing overseas.
2008: We'll see what the Cavs will do with the No. 19 pick.
Link

Nas - I think he's going to be the guy unless we trade up. I wouldn't be surprised if Rush sneaks into the lottery and would be surprised if Koufas last past Philly. That leaves Lee as a no brainer in my book.

if we ended up with courtney lee, i wouldn't mind that at all...

he could even have a chance to battle for a starting spot... that 2 guard spot has been our weak spot for years...

i haven't seen a lot of him play, just from the few games they played in the tournament...

there are a few guys i wouldn't mind having, and i like koufos and everything, but i think we need to get ourselves a great athlete, someone who can ballhandle/drive to the rim

it just angers me, because we have guys capable of it, but whenever the pressure gets put on, they can't even be successful against a single team... you know with #23 on the floor you won't see too many doubles...

plus, i think he's very similiar to z, not as good of a rebounder in my opinion (especially at the offensive end) but i also think z has a few decent years left... everyone assumes he's getting old, but some of those european players (like sabonis) played pretty late into their 30's...

i wouldn't be surprised to see z back here again when he's up for free agency, and at a pretty good value too... i don't think he'll leave and i don't think he'll demand top dollar...

there was no way he was going to get a good post up position in that boston series... kg is a little too much for z to handle...

what i was dissapointed with is z not taking it to him on the offensive glass, that's one area where i've seen him destroy every big man he's ever come across...

the pick&pop play is nice, but it's really feast or famine with that...

i really think after this current group (barring some huge pre season trade) gets a training camp together, that z will benefit a lot from it...

i really think deltone west is going to make a huge leap forward with this team, i was impressed throughout that entire boston series with him... his defense was good, his shot was pretty good, and his energy sparked huge runs... he just needs confidence with these guys

I agree with everything you said.

To be honest, I think that the biggest problem with the team is Mike Brown. Great defensive coach, but the offense needs work when the main play is to give LeBron the ball a the 3 point line and wait for the clock to get down under 10 before anyone does anything.

I have an option for Cleveland and Lebron James. Find Lebrons swingman "Pippen" from a small college ala Pippen. Courtney Lee SG Western Kentucky. Im not sure about this guys defense (Pippen was an all-league defender) but this guy is a smooth 3 point shooter and is excellant moving around the court without the ball. Another shooter would help open it up for Lebron. Plus, the guy can fly around the court like Rip Hamilton. Who better to get him the ball then Lebron? There are times that everyone is standing around when Lebron has the ball. This guy would move around to give Lebron a passing option. I think he would be an upgrade to Devin Brown, in the future, and possibley immediately. He would also give the Cavs a shooter they would be missing if they lose any in free agency. Is Wally a FA?

I know they need some young big men, but big guys who can rebound and play defense could be had in the second round. They dont need a PF or C that can score. Jordan never had one other then Horace Grant in his first "3 Peat". The second "3 Peat" he had Longley, Purdue, Wennington, and Rodman. That was what..... 10 points a game between all 4 of them? Late first rounders Dickey Simpkens and Corie Blount never had to score for them either.

if i followed college b ball I could provide some insight

I dont so this means NADA

if danny/gm has not spotted a PG, i might roll the dice with my boy Koufos

i don't know why everyone says the cavs have to find their pippen

we actually need to find our jordan, if you really think about it

lebron is a 3, so was pippen...

we obviously don't need to find someone as good as jordan, but we need a 2 guard...

those jordan teams had pretty solid players at all different times...

don't forget about ron harper... he was a huge piece to that first 3-peat...

dennis rodman was also a huge piece to the back end of that dynasty...

Oh so we only have to find somebody better then lebron. That shouldnt be to hard.

well, i said he doesn't have to be as good as jordan, so that really narrows it down

When I say "Pippen", I dont mean by position. I mean a 5 tool, all-star caliber player that can be second fiddle to a great player. The player I suggested could possibley slide under the radar and last until the cavs pick.

I also like 2 big men Ive been reading reports on that I wouldnt mind the cavs getting. Most of their big men are over 30 and Andy will be traded. I,ll get their names later, have to go to bed. Both play defense and are good passers.

Jason Thompson out of Rider
Maureece Speights out of Florida

Two big men then can help the Cavs, trade Andy for PG help or SG. Hopefully trade him to a team so the Cavs can get the other player I want. That would give Lebron the best rookie class he ever had to work with, which isnt saying much other then Bobbies 3 pointers.

Test. Is this working? I keep posting messages and they don't show up!