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No, some are going over the state line. Others are staying home. I don't think you understand the mindset of hardcore smokers...of which there are many. Smoking is more important to them than the drinking or bowling or whatnot, yet even some smokers themselves won't admit it. It's a strong addiction.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Speaking for my habits...I do go to bars less often now. We used to meet up with another couple regularly to shoot some darts and visit. Now, because it's such a giant PITA to pack up your stuff each time you go outside for a smoke, it's easier (and cheaper) to stay home. I know many bowling teams, dart teams, pool teams, etc., get tired of waiting on the smokers to take their shots or start a game. Not to mention as a smoker you have to run outside, hurry and take a few puffs, and rush back inside trying not to hold people up. That does tend to take the fun out of things. I've heard many members of teams say they would rather have smoking allowed inside than make a longer evening waiting around for the smokers to smoke. So, to answer your questions...sure, you can still bowl or get drunk. It's just much more of a hassle and mostly not worth it (at least for me). I will still go to the Browns bar, though, same as last year, and will continue to miss plays because I'm outside. 
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No, some are going over the state line. Others are staying home. I don't think you understand the mindset of hardcore smokers...of which there are many. Smoking is more important to them than the drinking or bowling or whatnot, yet even some smokers themselves won't admit it. It's a strong addiction.
I used to be a hardcore smoker. Which is why I stopped. But I had no problem going to smoke outside. I actually chose to because I didn't want my smoke to bother other people.
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You would go outside to smoke when you were in a bar? 
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I see your point, but I can't really sympathize. I haven't been bowling in a long time, but I do enjoy it, but got tired of getting home smelling like an ashtray, and I haven't smoked anything.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Not always in a bar, but yes...just to get some air. And cool off, it gets hot in those places sometimes.
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I don't bowl, either, but it's the same for any bar sports. And, back to the point, it would be nice if you could choose the non smoking bowling alley if you wanted to bowl, and I could choose the smoking. Now, if you wanted to bowl with me, I would go to the non smoking out of consideration for you, but I would be running outside every so often. 
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I know many bowling teams, dart teams, pool teams, etc., get tired of waiting on the smokers to take their shots or start a game. Not to mention as a smoker you have to run outside, hurry and take a few puffs, and rush back inside trying not to hold people up
That's completely sad if a person can't play a game of darts or a bowl a game without having to take a cigarette break.....talk about a serious addiction.
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It's not about a person not being able to not smoke for an hour...of course we can wait. It's about doing a leisure activity that is supposed to be fun and relaxing. If you have to wait an hour to smoke, it can become less fun. Especially when drinking.
If that's sad to you, so be it. I find it sad that people feel the need to drink every day. Drugs are a powerful thing, no?
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I don't bowl, either, but it's the same for any bar sports. And, back to the point, it would be nice if you could choose the non smoking bowling alley if you wanted to bowl, and I could choose the smoking. Now, if you wanted to bowl with me, I would go to the non smoking out of consideration for you, but I would be running outside every so often.
That's awfully sweet of you Michelle. I actually wouldn't allow you to do that, and would go to the smoking alley with you.
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That's completely sad if a person can't play a game of darts or a bowl a game without having to take a cigarette break.....
Smoking is an addiction. If you don't get the nicotine, you are uncomfortable. It's basic human physiology. Why is that completely sad? If you aren't a smoker, then you don't know what you're talking about. If you are/were a smoker, then you're belittling those who aren't as "strong " as you.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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I wouldn't call it belittling, but I could manage to make it through an activity without smoking. If I can do, anyone can!
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I find it sad that people feel the need to drink every day. Drugs are a powerful thing, no?
Absolutely....I feel bad as well for one of my best friends who drinks everyday or like my father who has had problems in his lifetime abusing perscription drugs.
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I wouldn't call it belittling, but I could manage to make it through an activity without smoking.
Thank you,that was my point 
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Again, though, it's not about being able to make it through an activity. I'm sure we've all sat through dinner, a movie, a church service, a funeral...whatever...and made it just fine. But, what's the first thing that happens when you walk out the door? Light up, of course.
I can go hours at home and not smoke. I don't smoke in the home office. But, it's my choice...I could go in to the other room. When I'm at a bar and drinking, it's not my choice. I have to go outside between dart games or between halves of the football game. Again, this makes fun stuff much less fun.
This is also a reason I'm going to fewer football games in Cleveland. It's completely stupid that they can't give smokers one ramp or something to smoke on. I would gladly walk across the stadium to a designated ramp that was sealed off from the non smokers/stadium. I do not want to be trapped in there for four or five hours and not be able to smoke. Football is stressful for me...
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They completely outlawed smoking from CBS? I was unaware, last time I was there you just couldn't smoke inside the seating areas, but you could smoke out by the concession areas.
I don't see why there isn't a smoking area in CBS...hell, tobacco tax helped build it!
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Have you ever bowled on a league? My wife used to be a regional pro bowler. She was on leagues that had 5 per team and in league play you bowl 3 games. That's sitting through 15 games. That taks about 3 1/2 hours. It's not like an hour activity.
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I can go hours at home and not smoke. I don't smoke in the home office. But, it's my choice...I could go in to the other room. When I'm at a bar and drinking, it's not my choice. I have to go outside between dart games or between halves of the football game. Again, this makes fun stuff much less fun.
But is smoking fun to you ? When you are puffing a cig is that more of an addiction or having fun ? And please know that I'm not trying to put you down whatsoever,I've known you for many years and I know you know my tone if I was getting rude
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SMOKING POLICY In compliance with Chapter 3794 of the Ohio Revised Code, smoking is prohibited in Cleveland Browns Stadium.
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Have you ever bowled on a league? My wife used to be a regional pro bowler. She was on leagues that had 5 per team and in league play you bowl 3 games. That's sitting through 15 games. That taks about 3 1/2 hours. It's not like an hour activity.
Wow they don't give you a 5-10 minute break between games,that sucks. Me personally I would need to pee pee after about an hour or so 
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But is smoking fun to you ? When you are puffing a cig is that more of an addiction or having fun ?
Sometimes I enjoy smoking, yes. Sometimes, not. Mostly though, as has been mentioned, it's a drug addiction. Regardless, for me, it's best to have fun and smoke at the same time.
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You can run to the restroom, but you go from one game to the next, at least in the leagues she's played on.
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That sucks.
And that's what was wrong with how the ban was worded.
I would vote to exempt certain places.
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I don't like gov't. telling people how to run their businesses. I do like democracy - the voters telling the gov't. what they want and don't want.
Even when that hurts the businesses?  IMO, "the people" have no need to butt in to how I run a business as long as I'm within my legal rights. Smoking is legal. The end.
Smoking was not made illegal by this law, this law mad intruding on other people desire to not have to breath cigarette smoke. Listening to music is legal, is it legal to listen to music so loud that everyone has to hear it? How would you like if while you were sitting at the bar I came and sat next to you with a boombox blasting death metal?
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Okay, Kingo....whatever you say. I'm sorry, but I'm finished with this subject for the evening. I wore my little brain out earlier. I'm sure I'll be back, so look for it. LOL
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It's completely stupid that they can't give smokers one ramp or something to smoke on. I would gladly walk across the stadium to a designated ramp that was sealed off from the non smokers/stadium. I do not want to be trapped in there for four or five hours and not be able to smoke. Football is stressful for me...
I agree 100 % on that, I absolutely believe in designated smaoking areas in the stadium, or any public place for that matter. What bothers me is I know of many people who wished they could sit in their seats and smoke and if they were allowed would do it, the person sitting next to them be damned.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Coach, I don't know how the law is worded, or if it's basis is due to the health of others. If second hand smoke is dangerous, then it should be banned in all public places. That includes private businesses.
The bar arguement is a bogus arguement, if it is for the health of the employees. The "other jobs are dangerous" arguement is crap also. There is a thing call OSHA (is this the right acronym?). It was put in place to lower the possible safety and health risks to employees. I had to climb poles and ladders when I worked in the telecom industry. There were regulations in place to make my job safer. If I didn't follow the regulations my company (as well as myself) could be fined by the government.
This is a law, and not just a safety regulation. However, if it was put into place to protect the health of the employees, (and not just for the comfort of people) and they have proof that second hand smoke causes serious health concerns, then businesses have no ground to stand on.
Buinesses should be required to protect the health of their employees with reasonable measures. Banning smoking is reasonable the way I see it, although I know others differ. Banning the use of any peanut products is something I would find unreasonable. Again, I know other would disagree.
There is almost always gray area within laws (not to mention many are poorly worded) so somebody will have to draw lines. That leaves topics like this open for hot debate.
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I researched the wording on the ballot for State Issue 5 regarding the smoking ban.. I'm not quite sure what wasn't clear about the wording.. seems pretty straight up to me.. http://www.smartvoter.org/2006/11/07/oh/state/issue/5/To enact Chapter 3794. of the Ohio Revised Code to restrict smoking in places of employment and most places open to the public. The proposed law would: Prohibit smoking in public places and places of employment; Exempt from the smoking restrictions certain locations, including private residences (except during the hours that the residence operates as a place of business involving non-residents of the private residence), designated smoking rooms in hotels, motels, and other lodging facilities; designated smoking areas for nursing home residents; retail tobacco stores, outdoor patios, private clubs, and family-owned and operated places of business; Authorize a uniform statewide minimum standard to protect workers and the public from secondhand tobacco smoke; Allow for the declaration of an establishment, facility, or outdoor area as nonsmoking; Require the posting of "No Smoking" signs, and the removal of all ashtrays and similar receptacles from any area where smoking is prohibited; Specify the duties of the department of health to enforce the smoking restrictions Create in the state treasury the "smoke free indoor air fund;" Provide for the enforcement of the smoking restrictions and for the imposition of civil fines upon anyone who violates the smoking restrictions. SHALL THE PROPOSED LAW BE ADOPTED? YES NO Whats not to understand here?
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private clubs, and family-owned and operated places of business;
Then why is it that private-clubs, and family-owned and operated business's are not permited to allow smoking???
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And if the small bars are hurting, it's because smokers are just too lazy to get up and go outside to smoke. There's nothing stopping them from going to these small bars. It's not like they have any other option except to stay at home. All bars are operating under the same rules. Smokers abandoned these places, not non smokers. Most non smokers, aren't usually big drinkers, because drinking and smoking go hand in hand.
AHHH but not all bars are operating under the same rules. People in this area are taking their money to WV, and PA in this area. I would prefer to spend my money in Ohio, supporting OHIO business, I can drive 10 to 15 min north, or west to go out to eat, or to a bar, or I can drive 10 to 15 min east, or south and go to a bar or out to eat in a place where I can relax, take my time, and enjoy myself, while smoking.
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Whats not to understand here?
People generally don't read the entire thing...that's the problem. They read the first sentence and vote.
And, like GM asks...why are they not allowing smoking in private clubs (VFW, etc.)?
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If memory serves me correctly, I think those were exemptions that were later closed somehow. I dinna know for sure. Maybe legal challenges? My point was that overall, the language used was not that difficult to understand.
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I understand your point. My point is that most people don't understand what they're voting for -- with almost ANY issue. You can't read the first sentence or paragraph and expect to know what you're doing. The nitty-gritty is usually hidden within somewhere.
I know this first hand from prior ballot issues that have been discussed here and from talking with people I know. It's simple...many people don't read or do their homework before they vote. I guess I just don't understand the point in voting on something you know very little about. I don't.
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private clubs, and family-owned and operated places of business;
Then why is it that private-clubs, and family-owned and operated business's are not permited to allow smoking???
It's very simple actually...if you have an employee, you cannot have smoke.
As PDawg said above...someone finally says it after four pages of posts...this law is designed to protect the employee. Simple as that. Agree or disagree all you want...this is, in large part, a health/safety issue.
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Quote:
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private clubs, and family-owned and operated places of business;
Then why is it that private-clubs, and family-owned and operated business's are not permited to allow smoking???
It's very simple actually...if you have an employee, you cannot have smoke.
As PDawg said above...someone finally says it after four pages of posts...this law is designed to protect the employee. Simple as that. Agree or disagree all you want...this is, in large part, a health/safety issue.
Last time I checked we were free to work any where we want. If the employee has a problem with smoke then don't get a job in a place that has smoking. It's that simple.
Since when did we not only become a nanny state but the majority thinks it's great????
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I understand your point. My point is that most people don't understand what they're voting for -- with almost ANY issue. You can't read the first sentence or paragraph and expect to know what you're doing. The nitty-gritty is usually hidden within somewhere.
I know this first hand from prior ballot issues that have been discussed here and from talking with people I know. It's simple...many people don't read or do their homework before they vote. I guess I just don't understand the point in voting on something you know very little about. I don't.
So...what do we do about a voter's inability or unwillingness to use their vote responsibly? Do we just reverse what was chosen by the majority because some people don't like it.
I'm really not trying to bust your chops here...but I've heard your point before. Maybe people need an IQ test before they can vote...maybe they should be forced to be land owners...or have a job...or ?
I think the majority of people knew exactly what they were voting on.
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And I understand your point as well.. you and I have already discussed at least one issue that we thought was poorly
written and designed to have people read the first sentence or two then vote without reading or understanding the rest of it..
In fact, I thought it was an exceedingly brilliant tactical plan on the part of the Rove Republicans the way they worded the Defense of Marriage Act / Gay Marriage on the ballot in 2004. That was a divide and conquer strategy that gave Bush Ohio. People saw the first sentence and voted without reading or understanding the whole thing.
I don't think the same applies to the smoking rule.. that may be a moot point, but certainly the language contained is not terribly difficult.
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Last time I checked we were free to work any where we want. If the employee has a problem with smoke then don't get a job in a place that has smoking. It's that simple.
Since when did we not only become a nanny state but the majority thinks it's great????
So I should be free to build office buildings with no handicap access? I mean screw the people in wheelchairs, they can get a job someplace else, right?
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I'm not going to read this thread because I'm pretty sure it's filled with posts from people who hate smoking where they go and people complaining because they can't smoke where they go.
This is not the point and has never been. The point is that business owners should be allowed to make their own choices when determining if they want their business to be smoking or non smoking. It's a legal activity (for now) and they should be able to decide if they want it or not. People should not be able to vote away business owners' rights. Vote with your pocketbook, that's what the smokers are doing now....
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Last time I checked we were free to work any where we want. If the employee has a problem with smoke then don't get a job in a place that has smoking. It's that simple.
Since when did we not only become a nanny state but the majority thinks it's great????
I guess we should do away with ADA laws as well...why should I have to spend another $15,000 to make my building handicap-accessible...afterall, employees can choose where they want to work.
(For those who may not know this...one could make the argument that handicap/ADA laws are designed to protect employee and prospective employee rights moreso than they are designed for the convenience of the consumer/customer.)
I cannot stand the argument that "the employee can always choose to work elsewhere". That is one enormous assumption.
Ok...so the government makes it harder for people to find work that they can tolerate so others can smoke indoors? Talk about taking away someones choices.
Nanny state?
Because of a law that improves the health environment of the state's citizens? I won't buy that one.
Let's do away with Occupancy limits, Zoning/Building codes, guards on food slicers, overtime for hours worked beyond X, sexual harrassment laws, non-discrimintation laws, and ... well...you get the point.
Again, the smoking ban is just another health/safety issue. Doesn't mean you have to agree though.
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