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Michelle...I think you know what i am talking about...I busted the chops of a good friend I met up with for Browns games for years....he qualified, but he could walk 200 extra feet rather than take up a handicap stall for 4-5 hours for someone who really needed it..like your 86 year old Granny.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
I'll go have a cigarette now.
You WILL be going outside, won't you? 
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Quote:
On a related note, all the cigarette smokers will need handicap stickers because their lungs can't stand the walk from the back of the parking lot!
Prove it.
You don't know that.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I was joking...you know that right?
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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I never understood that, to be honest. As some of you may remember, my father had his leg amputated last year. He and my mother are both already wheelchair bound due to arthritis. When I take them to the store, it does bother me to see people parking in the handicap spot and then able to walk around the store for hours. Of course, it bothers me less sense I am there and taking care of my parents getting in and out of their van with their electric lift. It's just easier with those wider spots to use the lifts, not so they don't have as far to go to get in the store.
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Quote:
but he could walk 200 extra feet rather than take up a handicap stall for 4-5 hours for someone who really needed it..like your 86 year old Granny.
That's what I mean...I'm not sure she really needs it. Although lately, she's been having more pain and having to sit down a lot if she does go shopping. So, maybe it's okay for her.
But, not for my Mother.
And, Coach...I think the van spots should be for vans with lifts only. No cars allowed.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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The only "special" parking placecs I've ever used are the ones that can be found for Expectant Mothers. And I only used them while I was VERY pregnant (last trimester only), only in bad weather and then only if I couldn't find something else fairly close. I could still get around just fine, even if I did look like a Weeble-Wobble when I walked! LOL!
![[Linked Image from i75.photobucket.com]](http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i302/lrhinkle/d5eaf0b9-e429-4211-b53f-b843bfcf6aa9_zps2ac17420.jpg) #gmstrong
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Those spots are fine by me...I'm sure it's a royal PITA to waddle around when you're very pregnant. I saw a man get in a car parked in the expectant mothers/mothers with children spot once. He knew he was busted by the look on my face. 
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Oh yeah, and I had a serious waddle too! I just wanted to save them for the women that REALLY needed them. They were nice, but I could still get around easily enough. I just had to look like a penguin when I walked!  LOL!
#gmstrong
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Well, right now, it's Constitutional until the Ohio Supreme Court rules otherwise. Like I said, it's been awhile now. If it's so unconstiututional why haven't we seen an easy challenge?
Yeah....it's been "awhile" now. In your posts within this thread, you have spouted about the year 2006. Yes, that's when the law technically went into effect but it was May of 2007 before the law was actually being enforced by health departments.
You have also spouted off that the verbage was not hard to understand, but as people have posted within this thread (and others in the past) why did the rules change after the effect in regard to private clubs? This in and of itself clearly illustrates that the law as voted upon by the voters of the state of Ohio and NOT implemented by the "big bad government" as you referred to it was a skewed plan from the get-go.
I have posted a news article that illustrates that county health departments are incapable of enforcing the law as voted upon and are turning this back over to the state. Do you know the status of the current and future state budget??? I do, and you can believe me bro that the state is not going to be any more capable of enforcing this ill conceived law than the counties are. It is one of the grossest forms of waste of time and resources ever allowed to be cast upon this great state. They are slowly figuring this out at the local levels and it will soon be realized at higher levels.
You can sit there upon your soapbox (just as I can upon mine I fully realize) and state that the language was easy to understand and that people knew what they were voting for. However, this is a huge load of horse kaka and all of the debate contained within this thread is moot........IMO the people did not know what they were voting on, the law cannot be readily enforced, and it is in no way a fair law in regard to the rights of either private clubs and/or private entrepeneurs. I know this as a long time officer of a post of the American Legion as well as a VFW member who has waged battle in person against this law.
This comes from a person as you are aware that lost his mother to lung cancer due to cigarette smoking. I hate cigarettes. I hate the fact that I am addicted to smokeless tobacco myself.
It all comes down to the choice to be able to choose.........but nothing i can say here can change your mind. You see it from one side and one side only......but to look at any issue you have to be able to look at it from all sides fairly.
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Quote:
The only "special" parking placecs I've ever used are the ones that can be found for Expectant Mothers. And I only used them while I was VERY pregnant (last trimester only), only in bad weather and then only if I couldn't find something else fairly close. I could still get around just fine, even if I did look like a Weeble-Wobble when I walked! LOL!
Not to get off topic but since it has been raised........Christy and I often park in the spot marked "Expectant and mothers of young children" parking spots while we go grocery shopping.
That is just ridiculous to have special parking spots for someone that is waddling or toting a young child........what would these people have done in the 1800's? Hell, what would they have done in the 1970's/1980's??? Give me a break!!!! 
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YOUR PREGNANT 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Legend
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We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Yeah....it's been "awhile" now. In your posts within this thread, you have spouted about the year 2006. Yes, that's when the law technically went into effect but it was May of 2007 before the law was actually being enforced by health departments.
Yep.. thats when the law when into effect.. it's been that long since someone could challenge the law and rectify all inequities right?
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You have also spouted off that the verbage was not hard to understand, but as people have posted within this thread (and others in the past) why did the rules change after the effect in regard to private clubs? This in and of itself clearly illustrates that the law as voted upon by the voters of the state of Ohio and NOT implemented by the "big bad government" as you referred to it was a skewed plan from the get-go.
The language of the law as presented on the ballot is simple. It is not difficult to understand. That is the point I made. Changes made to the law does not negate the simplicity of the wording. You DO understand what was written don't you?
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I have posted a news article that illustrates that county health departments are incapable of enforcing the law as voted upon and are turning this back over to the state. Do you know the status of the current and future state budget??? I do, and you can believe me bro that the state is not going to be any more capable of enforcing this ill conceived law than the counties are. It is one of the grossest forms of waste of time and resources ever allowed to be cast upon this great state. They are slowly figuring this out at the local levels and it will soon be realized at higher levels.
Thats nice.
Quote:
You can sit there upon your soapbox (just as I can upon mine I fully realize) and state that the language was easy to understand and that people knew what they were voting for. However, this is a huge load of horse kaka and all of the debate contained within this thread is moot........IMO the people did not know what they were voting on, the law cannot be readily enforced, and it is in no way a fair law in regard to the rights of either private clubs and/or private entrepeneurs. I know this as a long time officer of a post of the American Legion as well as a VFW member who has waged battle in person against this law.
It IS worth noting that given the otherwise simplicity of the wording.. certainly not enough was put in writing about the enforcement and funding of the enforcement. THAT is a major issue.
As you know, I am pals with more than a few friends in the bar business.. all of them are involved with BARPAC which is an organization attempting to turn back some of these regulations as being onerous and unenforcable besides being bad for business. In fact, one guy that I know enforces the ban until 9 pm when he knows the Health Inspectors have gone home and are no threat to his business. If someone complains, they come out and investigate during banking hours 9 - 5.. He's always been cleared as he doesn't allow smoking inside before 9 pm..
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This comes from a person as you are aware that lost his mother to lung cancer due to cigarette smoking. I hate cigarettes. I hate the fact that I am addicted to smokeless tobacco myself.
Yes, I know. I remember the post. I offered my condolences then and they are extended to this day.
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It all comes down to the choice to be able to choose.........but nothing i can say here can change your mind. You see it from one side and one side only......but to look at any issue you have to be able to look at it from all sides fairly.
Thats what you think.
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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See, that's just it. First, it should be up to the owners to decide what the policy is, not dictated by the government. That's the whole point.
Also, it isn't that hard to do? So, if it's pourinf rain, snowing, cold, whatever, it isn't that hard to stand out in inclement weather and smoke a cig?
Again, please explain to me why it is easier for the smokers to go outside than it is for a non-smoker to choose between a bar that allows smoking and those that don't?
When it's raining or snowing, I don't go ride my bike. I fail to see what weather has to do with this? It's an activity you're choosing to participate in.
Argue the law all you want but when someone else willingly participates in an activity I want no part of, that in turn has adverse affects on MY health, they can do it outside.
Some of the people that disagree with it act like we're talking about chewing gum here. Smoking kills how many people each day? Week? Year? Take the cancer sticks away from the healthy lungs.
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I was in Salt Lake City many years ago and we went to run errands with my friends uncle who lived there. We went to several stores and I noticed that we never parked all that close, he always left a bunch of open spots closer to the store and parked farther away. When I asked him why, he said it was just the right thing to do because we were all capable of walking the extra 40 feet and those spaces could be used by older folks or women with children or anybody who might need them more than we do. He told me that it was common practice in Salt Lake City.... I will say this about parking like I say it about so many other things, if there were more people who would just do the right thing because its the right thing to do, there would be no need for all of this legislation.
yebat' Putin
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But doing the right thing goes against what so many believe is their God given right to be the most important person in the room.
I seldom park close unless it's raining hard and there are several close spots open, not just one, even then I don't take the front spot. I kind of enjoy the few extra steps.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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, if there were more people who would just do the right thing because its the right thing to do, there would be no need for all of this legislation.
Absolutely, you are right on with that statement.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Does anyone know when the legislature will vote on this bill? I have a vested interest in it. I happen to OWN a bar. Quote:
I don't see why smokers just can't go outside.
And if the small bars are hurting, it's because smokers are just too lazy to get up and go outside to smoke. There's nothing stopping them from going to these small bars. It's not like they have any other option except to stay at home. All bars are operating under the same rules. Smokers abandoned these places, not non smokers. Most non smokers, aren't usually big drinkers, because drinking and smoking go hand in hand.
Restaurant owners have to cater to the biggest crowd, and not make a choice of smokers vs. non smokers...and basically it comes down to will you get a bigger crowd allowing smoking or not. People with children will be less likely to visit a place that allows smoking...I know that's true for me. I truly believe it's in their best interests to not allow smoking.
Bottom line, get up and go outside. It's not that painful to do!
Why don't you just keep your sorry ass ought of my bar and you won't have to worry about the smokers. It's my bar... not your's. Don't forget that. You want the gov't to come in your house and tell you to turn your thermostat down because you are wasting energy? Buy a motorcycle because it saves gas. Check your computer to make sure your kids have no access to any unseemly sites. Bring in a homeless person because they have nothing to eat and you have to give them a meal and sit them at your table? I think not. It's all the same thing... It's our/my bar.... You go outside....YOU... and hug a GD tree somewhere. 
Last edited by Referee 3; 07/23/08 09:13 AM.
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Hey Skippy,
Sounds like the well is pretty dry? All your regulars pack up and leave you? Tree Huggers?? Gimme a break man....
I am pretty indifferent on this bill, but my goodness, I sure hope a guy that talks like yourself is not the "face" of most bar owners in Ohio...
I heart winning
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1st String
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Quote:
Hey Skippy,
Sounds like the well is pretty dry? All your regulars pack up and leave you? Tree Huggers?? Gimme a break man....
I am pretty indifferent on this bill, but my goodness, I sure hope a guy that talks like yourself is not the "face" of most bar owners in Ohio...
Trust me... it is... as well as should be. You like haveing YOUR rights violated? Do you own a gun? Do you think you should be made to turn it in? I know it has little to do with the smoking ban.... EXCEPT... rights are rights. That's why I get so upset. People dictate to me how I should run my business and have NO intention of ever stepping foot in the place. Yea... tree huggers.
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I know many people who own bars and a few of them are as pissed as you.
It's a health issue...it's here to stay.
I hope your smoking customers come back...in the meantime, you've got to find a way to bring people back.
Easy for me to say for sure...but it is what it is.
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Practice Squad
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I'll play along (note: I voted against [vehemently, I might add] the smoking ban(s), but don't mind going into bars and not reeking of smoke). But doesn't the gov't put other limitations on your business in the name of "public safety".
Like employees must wash hands before returning to work. And you need to 3 sink wash you glasses. And your bartenders can only have 1 drink per hour. You can only have 2 neon signs per street.
Sounds like you submit to lots of laws. I think the bigger question is why did your regular customers abandon you (and yes, it is abandonment) because they can't smoke?
Personally, I don't care about smoking in bar (it's a vice palace IMO, let anything go). In restaurants, if I never experienced a rude smoker it would be too soon, but in a bar, could actually care less. But why are smokers abandoning bars when the bars need them most to survive. Seems to me that the smoking is more important than bar to them. So be it, says a lot about the smoker. Personally, I've been more apt to go to bars now, and yes, I'm putting my money where my mouth is (it's just those damned gas prices and DUI laws keeping me closer to home).
Original Dawg Talkers Pick'ems Champion
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J/C Here...
I think there is some generation gap that comes into play. MOST of the people I drink with smoke, but I never hear anyone complaining about it. Then again, I am in my 20's, and I think that makes a difference.
Most of the people I see and hear complaing about it are the middle-older aged crowd. I think its just that the middle-older aged crowd:
a) has a longer history of being able to smoke inside the bar, thus just being used to the luxury, which makes it harder to give up
b) are less motivated in the first place to hit the bar, thus this makes them stay home
I heart winning
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I was gonna say sorry about whatever losses you may have had...but since you wanna call people names and get undignified, I'll save my well wishes for someone who might actually deserve it.
But I will say this. I was never for the ban on bars. I understood that's what it was when I voted for it. I was given a choice of all or nothing...I took all. I hate smoke when I eat.
If I'm ever given a chance to change that law and lift the ban on bars, I'd be happy to. I'd even sign a petition if I needed to.
The point was made earlier, by me and a couple others, It's not entirely the law's fault why business has gone down. I agree that to some degree, your customers gave up on you. Especially if they're regulars, and they know that's it's not your fault, why not come still. So the question remains, why can't they go outside? I understand it's a little inconvenient. However, I never let a little inconvenience stop my fun. But that's me.
Anyway. Stay off the insults chief. We can discuss this like adults.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Here's my take on it... I know freshman year I got pretty sick of coming back from bars reeking of smoke, because I'm a non-smoker. I know that if the bar was able to decide to have smoking or non, the bar would always choose smoking, and it'd be next to impossible for me to find a non-smoking bar. I also know that I enjoy NOT smelling of smoke when I come back from the bars. I also don't see why the smoking ban keeps customers out of bars. Bars are for socializing...last I checked you don't need a cigarette in your mouth to socialize (but a few beers does help  ). I also know that this is a democratic society, and we the people spoke on this matter. Sorry smokers, I'll take my clean air and the lastingness of my cologne for the night...
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Legend
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The way it worked down here is probably 80% of the places went to a no smoking policy...the only places that didn't were the places I would call a classic bar or honky tonk...all the fern bars are non smoking as they are attached to larger restaurants.
Again...I don't see why a establishment can't allow smoking if it chooses to operate under that stipulation.
Workers don't have to work there, and people don't have to go.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Legend
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Quote:
J/C Here...
I think there is some generation gap that comes into play. MOST of the people I drink with smoke, but I never hear anyone complaining about it. Then again, I am in my 20's, and I think that makes a difference.
Yes, but not for the reasons you think. It's not because the younger people are so much more enlightened and health conscious than the old fogies. It's because the young folks have been brought up in this nanny age and have no problem with infringing on others if it's what they want. They've grown up with this big government who wants to control how you live and what you put in your body. Look no farther than Ammo's post above to see the selfish me attitude of the younger group. Nearly every sentence starts with an "I" and what "I" want. I'll bet his cologne that he brags about is far more offensive than the smoke. LOL.
The best way is choice. The business owners decide and in the end, most people get what they desire.
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I know that if the bar was able to decide to have smoking or non, the bar would always choose smoking, and it'd be next to impossible for me to find a non-smoking bar.
First of all, I doubt all the bars would be smoking bars. Secondly, this isn't about you, the non smoker, or me, the smoker. This is about the business owners. You think it's okay to tell them how to run their business, I don't. Sure, there may be benefits to one group or the other, but what about the owner of the bar? Does that person matter to you in any of this? Pretty soon, neither of us may have smaller bars to enjoy. And for that, I'll take your attitude and I'll blame you. 
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Ohio Senate proposal to modify
Ohio smoking ban
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