DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Let's talk outside linebacker opposite Wimbley

I wanted to make this thread because of all the hoopla surrounding Alex Hall and what it possibly means for the other OLB's opposite Wimbley.

Firstly, Willie McGinest naturally has the spot locked down, at least on the first two downs. He's still solid and instinctful against the run and it was clear as day when he took over for Peek last year. Peek couldn't stop the run to save his life, it seemed.

Speaking of Peek, we haven't heard anything out of him so far this camp and I'm more than just a bit concerned. Last preseason he was good enough to have me believe he was going to benefit from the attention Wimbley received, but an ankle injury derailed that, and I'm willing to give him a pass for that because I know ankle injuries kill your ability to passrush, just being a half-step slow when you're already average makes you blockable. But I expected to hear more about him by now.

Shantee Orr, haven't heard jack about him. He's supposed to be a special teamer a la Chaun Thompson, but he had a solid sack year a few years ago IIRC.

David McMillan is cut material, unfortunately.

Now we come to Alex Hall...is all the hype he's receiving justified? Or are we excited to see a low-round pick looking like he's holding his own? I haven't seen training camp in person so I don't know. Is this "Wimbley-esque" hype truly worth it? And also, where should he begin on the depth chart for the first preseason game? I'm wondering if we should put him on the "fast track" and start him out with the 2nd unit, but I have a feeling RAC will play him with the 3rd team at first and make him earn it.

Answer this for me, how does he look against 1st team linemen, and does he look like he can contribute as the 3rd down rusher this year?

I'm looking forward to the responses.

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Speaking of Peek, we haven't heard anything out of him so far this camp and I'm more than just a bit concerned. Last preseason he was good enough to have me believe he was going to benefit from the attention Wimbley received, but an ankle injury derailed that, and I'm willing to give him a pass for that because I know ankle injuries kill your ability to passrush, just being a half-step slow when you're already average makes you blockable. But I expected to hear more about him by now.

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You haven't heard anything because our guys here aren't saying anything...

Elsewhere he's being talked about VERY POSITIVELY!!!....

Peek got tatooed last year with the season long ankle and knee problems...He was never 100%...Cause when he is he's a bonafide pass rushing LB...Keeping him healthy is key here...

Orr has also gained solid reviews early as Wimb's back-up...We've got 4 solid OLB's right now...

Hall's the wild card...If he's as raw as they say...I doubt he makes the 53 man roster...No room for him...He won't make it ahead of the top 4 OLB's...We may end up seeing him on IR just so we don't lose em' via the waiver wire...He may not make it to the PS...IF he does make the final roster...Count on him being INACTIVE weekly unless an injury dictates otherwise...

Wimbley, IMO isn't so much a lock.

People talk about other players needing to improve, yet very little is said about Wimbley needing to improving.

If he keeps playing like he did last year, he isn't the type of player who can't be replaced, and certainly not the type of player you can build a defense around, yet somehow I get the feeling many think he is that type of player.

Out of all the rookies the name that had the staff going big eyed after the mini camps was Hall. its no coincident that he is opening eyes now that camp has started. Remember camp hasn't been going for a week, its the time where the vets should be owning and the rookies should be struggling. Seeing the kid on tape its raw explosion. He may be end up being a scrub but right now he is a bit of hope for a position that hasnt provided anything.

Peek, Orr we will see. I dont have a great deal of condience in either of these guys. I think Peek can be a decent backup but he just doesnt seem to have that big time play making ability.

McGinnest looks good atm but i remember how he looked last year with Big Ben running around him, away from him and over him lol. I think he can play at a high level for 15-20 snaps a game. After that he is just spent and he no longer is helping this team.

I agree Peen, I am not sure why this guy isn't scrutinized more. It seems our backers got a pass for some reason last year and our corners didn't?

I don't get it. Only Mcginest can shed blocks, once the guard engages Wimbley, DQ or Peek, it's over, they are done, out of the play. They don't shed blocks well at all, if they aren't running free, they aren't making tackles.

Hopefully the new D-line will command more doubles.

Wimbley improved last year even though his stats may not have shown it. He and Robaire drew all the attention. Teams made an adjustment as the LT's decided they simply were not going to give up the inside to Wimbley. He got there but the QB simply stepped up because we didnt have any inside push at all.

his coverage was better and he was also better against the run. Dont get so caught up in sack numbers.

I didn't say anything about sacks.

Wimbley has GOT TO be able to seal off the outside and not get turned inside..he's got to use his strength and quickness to get past the blocker and blow that side up..

Like I've said before, other teams made adjustments around Wimbley. The Pats for example. He was the ONLY one on our D they were truly concerned about and, therfore, the only one they game planned for.

Tough to be truly effective when you are the only one receiving any attention.

Now, does that mean he's above criticism? Absolutely not.

I just wish Wimbley would learn a new move. everyone has speed and power in the NFL. 3 years should equal 3 moves learned at least. L2, triangle, X, hit stick something.

I couldn't agree less with you and Peen on Wimbley. The kid is a dynamo.. But you can't expect anyone to do much better than he has done given the line he has had to work with..

Let's see how he does this year

just clicking....


I'm undecided on Wimbley.

He is most definitely a dyanamo, to borrow Daman's term.... and he has LOADS of ability. There is no doubting any of that.

That said, he also has a few significant weaknesses that didn't seem to improve too much last year, BUT the DLine royally blew chunks... so what can we really evaluate?


I'm a firm believer that you have to evaluate in a bit of a graduated fashion from Front to Back. That means that if the players on the Line of Scrimmage can't get it done, then you have to cut some slack to the guys behind them when things get blown up. It is a machine, but one that is more like a train... it all follows what is up in front and if that part of the train up front isn't very strong, that train isn't gonna be going very strong at all. It's silly to call out the coal car for the engine sucking.

That said... you CAN point at the coal car and say "It's rusty" or "it has a bad wheel" or "it isn't really appropriate for hauling this or that". You CAN look at a 1on1 matchup and see that Wimbley can have trouble shedding blocks or that he hasn't played the run all that well at times unless the D is able to stretch it out. If a lineman gets into him though, the RB is generally going past him in a flash because Kam isn't going to get off the block.



What all of that boils down to is this: We finally have a DLine, so we FINALLY can get a true read on what is behind them. Take what you little you can see to this point with a grain of salt and see if your negatives improve this year..... if not, then that player should be getting replaced or moved to situational use this coming offseason.

Lets also not forget that you don't get a true read on a player many times till their 3rd and 4th year.

Peen, here's a little cheat cheat to help you post...

Guys you can't find any fault with...

Wimbley
Quinn
Thomas
Winslow
Edwards
Pool

Guys you can't say anything good about (unless you point out the negative too)...

DA
Shaffer
Davis
Pool


Yes, I'm exagerating to some degree, but I don't think I'm far from reality. Well, except for Pool, he gets it coming and going.

Hall is another guy where I'm not sure why all the love is coming to him. I loved the fact that Savage picked him (sorry Rishuz) but he was a later pick in the seventh round for a reason. People are saying we won't be able to put him on the PS because he will be grabbed for sure. If that's the case, why didn't anyone draft him? We are just a week into camp people, there is no way we can judge him yet. I've been fooled before, so I think I'll wait a little longer before annoiting him.

You didn't say he was a bust, you said that he's not irreplacible.

I completely dissagree. The guy improved his coverage and run defense last year big-time. While he didn't seem to get to the QB as well, he definitely was hands down our best OLB. He's very athletic and he's only going to continue to improve.

While he might not be DeMarcus Ware, I like Wimbley and don't see him as replaceable at all. May be we have some other guys on our defense who are also very good, but Wimbley is improving. Remember that this is his third year and you can't just expect guys to be the top players in the league at their position.

As Tab or Mourgym said, Wimbley made the QBs step up last year and this wasn't enough because our D-Line was miserable. While he didn't get the sacks, he was the only one pressuring the QB. I expect him to be much better this year, and I hope you eat your words.

Also, some poster was talking last year about the undisciplineness of Robaire and how that was effecting Wimbley. May be that was the case and we can clean it up this year.

But I've got no problem with Kamerion, he plays hard, was our best defensive player last year, and he's not a diva in the least bit. My friend from Fort Lauderdale (who was my roommate for four months when i was in Prague) had a friend at FSU who was good buddies with him or roommates or something. and he (my friend) hung out with Kamerion. He said he's a very nice guy, not a jerk who's full of himself like some of the other FSU players.

So yeah, I'm sticking with my guy Wimbley, and that's why I got his jersey.

Here's what I think I've been to assess, for what it's worth, with much conjecture, obviously... Wimbley with Willie McG opposite. Peek in on passing downs. Orr makes the rotation. Hall makes the team as a huge surprise, developing on STs, upside forcing them to give up McMillen. JMHO

Re: Wimbley... toss the book until we see him play with this line... a whole new Wimbley, IMO, but we shall see... I see Peen's and others' points. I think like many the line will make the difference this year. I hope so, anyway... that's all we've been hearing.

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I think you are the one who needs a little help here. Say anything even mildly critical about Anderson and his self-appointed protectors will label you a "hater" or a Quinn "lover" and have a little hissy fit.

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Jules there are way more people who bash DA then those that think he is all that. His biggest defender was Vers (who got himself in trouble yet again) and he wasn't sure if he would be the long term answer. The way I see it Quinn gets a free pass on everything, not DA. Just look at the camp reports. Quinn is supposably not doing well, yet you hear little about it. Can you imagine if the tables were turned?People bring up the good that DA has done (TDs, passing yards) and in the very next post people have to bring out his negatives (INTs, comp. %, decision making). For the record, I do defend DA a lot because he gets hammered so much on everything. By no means do I think he is the answer at this point. I don't even know if he is better then Quinn. I also stuck up for Quinn in one of these threads because it wouldn't be right to crucify him with only a few practices.

My whole point is that there are a few players on this team that can do nothing wrong in the eues of the majority, and a few who can't seem to do anything right. Neither is true, but that is the way it is.

I'll go even further....I think there are more then a few on here who hope certain players fail. "I just want the Browns to win." is crap. Everyone wants us to win, but there are many who want certain players to suceed, and others to fail. When it comes to QBs, most want Quinn. If that wasn't the case, he wouldn't be a top jersey in sales. People are fickle. In the beginning of the season I was lambasted for critizing DA. The majority on here wanted to overlook his terrible games (like Oakland) by making excuses for him. The tide sure changed after a couple of losses, even though DA wasn't to blame.

I probably should have left off those two names because my post wasn't meant to start yet another QB debate.

If you say anything negative about Edwards, Winslow or Wimbley it won't go unchecked. The same can be said about Schaffer and Davis on the other side. Actually Davis should be on both sides, because his play is very polarizing.

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I think even a blind man could see that Hall has a lot of talent and natural instincts, but right now he is physically raw and needs a little more muscle along with needing to be coached up as a LBer.

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Since I've never seen him, I guess I'm in with the blind people. From what I understand, he has physical tools ( those can't be taught) but he has never played ball at a high level. He may turn out to be good, but to think he will be scooped up (without any doubts) so we have to keep him on the roster is premature. The fact is not a lot of teams can afford to keep a raw player on a 53 man roster. That is unless he can play special teams well. Hopefully he can be a good special teams player and he makes our 53 man roster. Hopefully, he proves himself worthy to get playing time on the defense. I'm waiting untill late August to decide if he is worthy.

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That said, he also has a few significant weaknesses that didn't seem to improve too much last year, BUT the DLine royally blew chunks... so what can we really evaluate?

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That last sentence is pretty much my point Purp,,,

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It is a machine, but one that is more like a train... it all follows what is up in front and if that part of the train up front isn't very strong,

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Same on the O side of the ball,, look what happened once we got the horses up front... (of course those that want to harass me can remind me that I believed that Frye would improve behind a better Oline... Hey, I had to make a mistake someday )

I like your thinking on this subject Purp,, It's honest and a whole lot less reactionary..

I read a good article on this topic the other day. here it is.

Akron beacon Journal

Wimbley won't predict

Young linebacker lets sack results do the talking

By Marla Ridenour
Beacon Journal sportswriter

Published on Monday, Jul 28, 2008

BEREA: From now on, Kamerion Wimbley will keep his personal goals to himself.

During his rookie season of 2006, the Browns' 13th overall pick revealed he was shooting for a sack a game. That's even though he was making the transition from defensive end at Florida State to outside linebacker in Cleveland. And that it seemed somewhat out of character for the shy, unassuming native of Wichita, Kan.

But he nearly hit his number. His 11 sacks set a Cleveland rookie record and tied for 11th in the NFL. In 2007, Wimbley saw no reason to lower his expectations, so he stuck with his prediction.

While the Browns finished 10-6 and a game shy of the playoffs, Wimbley recorded only five sacks. He still led the team in sacks and quarterback pressures (20), but observers regarded it as a sophomore slump.

Wimbley, 24, is older and wiser now. Cleveland traded for two talented defensive linemen, Detroit's Shaun Rogers and Green Bay's Corey Williams, who should attract some of the attention he was getting. Left outside linebacker Antwan Peek, who played through an injury-plagued season in '07, is healthy.

But when it comes to his sack-a-game standard, Wimbley is keeping his mouth shut.

''I don't want to make another statement like that ever again,'' Wimbley said Sunday. ''I think everybody pays attention to that. It was lofty. It was something I believed at the time.

''As a guy coming into the league, you get away with it the first year. The next year, you think you're going to be able to do the same thing, get those one-on-ones. Naw, that's not the case, you've got backs chipping, you're going to get double-teamed, they're going to run zones, they're going to slide the line. It's crazy, the adjustments they made. It kept me busy and tried to keep me off-balance. I won't make another prediction. I'd rather be under the radar.''

But Wimbley still believes the reasoning behind his lofty goal is sound.

''A lot of that was coming into the league and wanting to be great,'' he said. ''You make a statement and hopefully you can live up to that. That was a goal. I didn't live up to that expectation, but as a football player, I felt like I got better. So I wasn't disappointed in last year.''

Browns coach Romeo Crennel agreed that Wimbley made strides last year.

''Just his knowledge of the game, runs and schemes, I thought he played the run better than he did his first year,'' Crennel said. ''When you watch the tape even though he didn't have pass rush production, he's always around the quarterback. He just didn't end up with the sacks. Hopefully, we'll be able to get him a step closer and maybe he'll knock the ball out of the hands, he'll sack the guy. I feel confident about him as a pass rusher.''

Wimbley said opposing players would tell him during or after the game that he was the player they schemed against. He also heard it when veteran players joined the Browns.

''Guys on different teams would come up and tell me, 'Our offensive coordinator said you were a key person we had to stop in order to be successful,' '' Wimbley said. ''That's a compliment, me only being in my second year in the league.''

Crennel said the Browns saw all kinds of strategies to neutralize Wimbley last year.

''They can shift so he's double-teamed for a while, they can slide the line one way or the other,'' Crennel said. ''The type of passing game you're facing, whether it's a deeper-setting passing game or a quick-throwing passing game, all of that impacts production as a pass-rusher. With the addition of some of the guys we have now, I think we'll be able to push the pocket more. If we can keep [Antwan] Peek healthy, I think that will impact him as well.''

Crennel said Wimbley will also have ''another move or two in his repertoire,'' thanks to his offseason work with defensive line coach Randy Melvin and defensive assistant Bob Trott. But chances are those won't be revealed until the Sept. 7 season opener against Dallas.

''It's improving. I don't want to reveal anything,'' Wimbley said. ''We'll implement those into the game plan and come game time, we'll use them.''

I found another one as well

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsi...46370&rfi=6

07/29/2008
Wimbley hopes to benefit from line upgrades
JEFF SCHUDEL , Morning Journal Writer

BEREA -- Last year Kamerion Wimbley was like a one-man crew trying to row a barge upstream against a strong current.
He usually got swallowed in the tide, and as a result his sacks dropped off from 11 his rookie year to just five last year.

''He was our only pass rusher other teams had to worry about,'' a Browns official said at the start of training camp.

Wimbley yesterday said he improved as a player from his first year to his second.

Coach Romeo Crennel agreed, saying Wimbley was better against the run, and even though his sacks were down, Wimbley was around the quarterback enough to be credited with 20 pressures. No one else had more than nine.

But no pass rusher gets to dance for a quarterback pressure.

The entire offseason was dedicated to improving the defense so Wimbley can get to the quarterback more, starting with replacing defensive coordinator Todd Grantham with Mel Tucker and trading for defensive linemen Shaun Rogers and Corey Williams.

''I don't like to point fingers at anybody else, but overall as a defense we didn't get better statistically last year,'' Wimbley said after practice yesterday. ''I guess as an individual, I have to be responsible for myself.''

There's a lot more to it than that, starting with the comment by the Browns official about Wimbley being the only pass-rushing threat in 2007.

Antwan Peek was supposed to be the pass rushing linebacker from the other side, but he battled injuries all season and finished with four sacks.

Leon Williams and Robaire Smith also belonged to the sack-a-month club.

Teams schemed to keep Wimbley away last season. Wimbley knows, because he said opponents told him they were targeting him with an extra blocker or a running back to ''chip'' him as he rushed the quarterback. That chipping, which is to bump Wimbley off his path, was sometimes the difference between a sack and a near-sack.

Wimbley acknowledges he has been working on other ways to get to the quarterback besides bending low and zipping around the tackle. He wants to keep his new techniques under wraps until the games start to count in September.

''Nobody knew of me my first year,'' Wimbley said. ''Last year, offensive coordinators came with schemes to slow me down and wear me out. We've gotten players from other teams who told us Ôour offensive coordinator specifically said you were a key person we had to stop in order to be successful.'

''Hopefully, people will still pay attention to me, but this time I have some more people to come along with me.''

As an eager rookie, Wimbley said his goal was a sack a game. He didn't quite make it in 2006, but his 11 sacks set a Browns rookie record. Last year he said his goal was the same. He has since decided to get out of the prediction business.

''I don't ever want to make a statement like that again,'' he said. ''Everybody pays attention to that. It was lofty. It was something I believed at the time. You get away with it the first year. The next year, you think you'll be able to get those one-on-ones. That's not the case.''

Opponents will have to divide their attention if Rogers and Williams live up to what is expected of them. Rogers had seven sacks with the Lions last year and Williams had seven with the Packers. Even if they don't match those numbers, they will force opponents to account for them.

As far as Crennel is concerned, keeping Peek healthy is as important as adding Rogers and Williams if the Browns are to increase their sack total of 28. Only the Bengals (22), Panthers (23), Falcons (25) and Raiders (27) had fewer sacks.

Maybe I was the only one who noticed Wimbley getting double teamed constantly.

He wasn't getting double teamed constantly. That's repeated as mantra but it simply isn't true.

There were games like Seattle where he was doubled about 10% of the time. Of course that's because Walter Jones doesn't need help.

If there was an inferior left tackle playing that game he may have been chipped part of the time, with a RB protecting or a TE over the tackle but not all that often.

Wimbley was our best defensive player on the field last year but.....

He was doubled far less than most would have you believe.

Thanks for the articles Hungry,, Not that these two reporters know anything more than any body else,but they have DIRECT quotes from RAC saying the direct opposite of what some on this thread are saying..

Now maybe it's just me, but if I'm going to take the word of someone, it's going to be someone that's been in coaching for 30+ years, has 5 SB rings and made his bones coaching the D.

If RAC said that Wimbley improved, then I believe him.

As for the irreplaceable comments.. If Tom Brady begins a downward spin, he's replacable... So, under those conditions, if he is, anyone is......

j/'c


IMO... McMillan is out of here... Alex Hall is going to get his spot. McMillan has been here long enough, and has not really done much. Some may say he may be good at special teams, but I'm sure Alex Hall could do the same, as well as get a little playing time.

Peek will probably split time w/ McGinnest, and Orr will probably back up Wimbley. So as our OLB's, I have:

Wimbley
McGinnest
Peek
Orr
Hall

Do we normally keep 5 OLBs? That sounds like too many.

NICE!!! Good point. It's a football responce so you should be good...

Nobody in our lb core is irreplaceable except for Willie because nobody but Willie brings a headiness to the football field. Of course, we can only expect Willie to be that irreplaceable piece for a dozen or so plays a game and for just this last year.

But we don;'t have a playmaker amongst our linebackers. Guys that impact at lb usually show their stripes right away.

And don;t try and say kamerion Wimbley is a playmaker. For all his sacks and tackles, there are few or none that have changed games.

DQ was a playmaker in college but hasn;t been in on a lot of turnovers this early in his career.

If the playmaker we are missing is waiting amongst the draftees, they'll show their physical prowess sooner rather than later.

T_