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"It gets old, doesn't it? Even if one of the Quinn lovers tries, feebly, but tries to say he doesn't care who the starter is as long as the browns win, and then goes into rants about how terrible DA is."
]If thats how you feel about my posting say it to my face but leave out all the insults and NON-Football crapola you just spewed and simply DEBATE me on it.
Ytown...thank you for trying to make it a debate. At least you took the football route and that was a pleasure. But see the above post by Archi...thats what I'm talking about regarding a debate without any football. And for him to question my fandom and to state that I don't truly care about how well the Browns do cause I'm a player fan not a Brown's fan. Is a piece of low down garbage. 
JMHO
Whoa, guy. Settle. Sorry you took my post that way. Didn't mean for it to taken like that by you. It was more directed in a different direction. (and honestly, I don't read most of the yellow posts - yours or anyone elses - and don't take offense by that-it's just hard on my eyes)
Let's discuss qb's.
I could not care less who starts. I am not a DA fan, nor a Quinn fan - I'm a Browns fan.
What irks me is the people that lambast DA for his shortcomings, and praise Quinn for how great he is, or because he must be the future of the Browns, or whatever.
Even the most knowledgeable (sp?) football fan, to have any credibility, has to sit back and do a couple of things: Realize that the coaches want to/need to win, and they will play the players that give them the best chance of that.
Realize that our coaches watch these guys in practice every day, and then watch the tapes of the practice (the life of a coach is kind of boring)
Realize that, while Quinn has not had near as much time with the starters as DA, there must be a reason for it.
Is Quinn better? None of us know. Apparently, the coaches, at this point in time, don't feel that way. I'll go with their decision. And if they change their mind, I'll go with with that.
But, for anyone to flat out state that Quinn is better - sorry, those are some kool aid colored glasses they are looking through.
Can he be better than DA? Absolute possibility.
Is he the future of qb in Cleveland? Absolute possibility. But some people post like DA is nothing but body odor with a strong arm.
See, my problem is not with you, but with people that have Quinn annointed as the answer, without ever seeing him in a real game, where it matters. When the heat is on.
We've seen DA. We know that he can be awesome, and we know that he can suck the peel off a lemon without wincing. For whatever reason, he's the starter now.
But for anyone to state, unequivocally, that Quinn is better is not something I can believe.
Further, show me a q.b. in the nfl, college, h.s. or anywhere else, that can't improve on something.
Sorry I got you worked up, like I said, it was more directed elsewhere.
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Quote:
But see the above post by Archi... And for him to question my fandom and to state that I don't truly care about how well the Browns do cause I'm a player fan not a Brown's fan. Is a piece of low down garbage.
Just for the record, the name is Arch, or Archbolddawg. I don't go around calling you tabbie, do I?
Sorry you had a bad day. Read my post again.
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All Pro
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Wrong again... There are a lot of things you don't get... QB is one of them... Q- Is DA accurate IYO? Q- Was DA successful last season? Get it now?  DA had one of the best QB seasons in Browns history... But that is not good enough for you and others... PEEEUUUU man... I CLEARLY WROTE THAT DA DOESN'T HAVE TO BE AS ACCURATE AS YOU WANT, TO BE SUCCESSFUL!!! CAN YOU FRICKEN READ AND COMPRREHEND THOSE WORDS??? Cut the crap... Why do you contiune to act like the body area you're sitting on reading this? DA did what he did last year in his first year as the Browns starting QB... We all know the Wins losses, TD's, Pick's, the rest of the numbers... The accomplishments, awards and new contract... We all know what he needs to improve on... There is no way possible that DA could have improve in all the areas you say he needs to by the first game of the pre--season... Who do you think you are kidding here???   Lose what? To who? WTHAYTA? How can a team win without a accurate QB? Ask Trent Dilfer, Phil Savage Ozzie Newsome and the Ravens... UNBELIEVABLE...      
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Remember the 1986 denver bronco performance by elway in the super bowl, wow what a dis grace and again in 1989,
Well its a good thing Elway didn't have a former 1st round pick threatening his job or he might not have had a chance to well whatever.
It is almost football season.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Remember the 1986 denver bronco performance by elway in the super bowl, wow what a dis grace and again in 1989,
Well its a good thing Elway didn't have a former 1st round pick threatening his job or he might not have had a chance to well whatever.
It is almost football season.
lolwut?
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j/c:
Man!!! I can't believe how much stamina you Dawgs have for this subject.
I was out of breath after Page 3.
Maybe the International Olympic Committee should consider "Dawgbate" as an Olympic endurance event.
___________________________________
Bottom line #1: The game of football is populated by less-than-perfect Human Beings. The Game is also simple in its basics, yet incredibly complex in its intricacies- and that's what gives you "Debate Dawgs" the fuel to carry this threadbate out beyond last call... and all the way up to closing time.
Bottom line #2 : DA has flaws, but helped to win us 10 games last year.
Bottom line #3: BQ has the pedigree to suggest that he'll be a good player in the NFL, but still has only played less than one entire game of real NFL football.
Noone in this marathon deadbate is really right, and noone's really wrong... BECAUSE THE JURY'S STILL OUT ON BOTH OF THEM... and we ALL need more time to see what either of them have to bring to the Browns' table to make an accurate assessment.
ONE WHOLE SEASON for your starter, ans ONE WHOLE TRAINIG CAMP for your backup? Realistically, who knows what we really have?
Ultimate Bottom Line: we have a bona fide starter and a capable, promising backup... and that's what all teams want.
so...
What's with all the hubbubs, bubs?
Look- if you Dawgs are tossing this thing around because it's still the preseason, and there's noting better to do, I can get with that. If it's more than that....
...all y'all need to get lives outside of this board.
.02
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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"But for anyone to state, unequivocally, that Quinn is better is not something I can believe."
I'm sorry, where is that being said by me? I have said In the long run I think BQ would be the franchise QB but until he plays and we can view is pluses and minuses its simply a ??? but from what I viewed he has the intangibles to make something out of nothing which DA doesn't. Can he do the 80-90% stay in the pocket passes better? I cannot say that with certainty until he plays.
I rarely mention BQ in this thread cause its not about BQ its about our STARTER DA and I question if he is THE ONE? And I state why I question it very clearly. DA has more than proved to me that he's an NFL QB...I just don't know if he has that EXTRA stuff to win games against Stiff opponents. Thats all and as we all know in the Playoffs - ALL the opponents are Stiff competition. Am I confident he will eat up weak defenses that apply no pressure...yep. Some seasons that will get you 10 wins others 7-8. Can that number go up if we get an AWESOME DEFENSE, yep. But then we could just fill in the blank at QB for that matter.
But this thread is not about the D...its about DA as a starter. I've stated my opinion...I've been precise in why I think what I think and I have not seen any valid arguments come up. I seen some stats thrown out there which are correct stats but don't validate or vindacate DA as an accurate passer. I've heard that my opinion doesn't count cause it bad KARMA for the team and I'm not a good fan.
But this is still pure football. Thats all I'm doing is talking football anyone and everyone is welcomed to join me.
Oh and Peen - you still don't get it? lol 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
But this thread is not about the D...its about DA as a starter. I've stated my opinion...I've been precise in why I think what I think and I have not seen any valid arguments come up. I seen some stats thrown out there which are correct stats but don't validate or vindacate DA as an accurate passer. I've heard that my opinion doesn't count cause it bad KARMA for the team and I'm not a good fan.
But this is still pure football. Thats all I'm doing is talking football anyone and everyone is welcomed to join me.
Thanks for your work. I'll just take the coaches opinions.
If and when the coaches change their view, I'll be behind them 100%.
You say you see "intangibles" in BQ?
I see intangibles in DA.
Doesn't make either of us right.
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I've been out of town an entire week and this thing is still going on I agree with ya man. We have to see any improvements DA has made. We have to see what Quinn can do with the first team Judging by the results of last year...I'm willing to give DA the benefit of the doubt.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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I've been out of town an entire week and this thing is still going on
It will probably go on until one of the qbs is traded in the off season.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Sad to say but very true. I just don't understand why there needs to even be an argument. We've been crying for years to have good qb play, and we finally get it, a pro bowl performance no less, and that doesn't seem to make people happy. I've seen people say that DA didn't earn his pro bowl bid because he wasn't voted in. So in essence, it doesn't really count... I like them both, DA and Quinn, but we finally have a summer without a qb controversy, and what happens, the fans create one. I'll never figure it out.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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I like them both, DA and Quinn, but we finally have a summer without a qb controversy, and what happens, the fans create one. I'll never figure it out.
My sentiments exactly!!!
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Quote:
Quote:
I like them both, DA and Quinn, but we finally have a summer without a qb controversy, and what happens, the fans create one. I'll never figure it out.
My sentiments exactly!!!
I can understand why there is one though. If Quinn weren't here this would be a non-issue...it's the fact that we have a first round QB on the sidelines with a QB on the field who, as great as he was last year, showed major holes in his game.
That being said, he deserves EVERY OPPORTUNITY to get to show he fixed those holes.
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"Thanks for your work. I'll just take the coaches opinions."
And I don't take their view in consideration? Time and again I state point blank that DA is our starter...and the reason I do is because the Coaches view it that way.
Coaches Opinions? Why you married to one and get the pillow talk? (don't know your gender) but rarely do we get their full opinions. We can ASSume that DA is farther along in our system than BQ and that is not too hard to ASSume. It doesn't however mean that the negatives that I see do not exist.
You forget we did sign him to a 3 year contract.
We didn't even consider negotiating a 5+ year contract.
We left a trade loop hole to bypass a big roster bonus in 09.
To think the coaches opinion is that there are no questions about DA regarding him being our future franchise QB is pretty naive.
But to state there is no debate on a message board cause you know the opinion of the coaches just is not true. You don't know. Shall we all bend to your simple assumptions?
"You say you see "intangibles" in BQ?
I see intangibles in DA.
Doesn't make either of us right."
Actually thats not what I said. I spelled out that I saw the INTANGIBLES TO MAKE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING from BQ. To just state a vague "intangibles" with no meaning and state neither is right. Well I'm not so quick as you to tell King Solomon go ahead cut that baby in half.
I know what I see and trust my judgement and spelled out the intangible BQ has shown that he has it...DA has shown that he doesn't. If you can state your case where DA has...I have an open mind.
But I can count on 3 fingers the plays DA has made out of nothing. Thats with 18 starts. 2 of them had him running with the ball, Bernie style.
One I believe was in the Zona game where he stood in the pocket with a rusher bearing in on him and took the hit as he let the ball go into KW2's hands perfectly about 30 yards down the middle. Great play. Of course it didn't involve him moving from the pocket. Other than that - if he escaped a rush and then went to hit a WIDE OPEN WR the throw was horrible.
Poster child of that - He gets a way from a rush and rolls to his right - Heiden wide open in the endzone about 25 yards downfield. DA throws....About 15 yards right of the Endzone. Its the Mannings, Favre, Brady, Bernie, Montana...take your pick of any Championship QB who makes D's pay with situations like that. DA has two good runs, and the one strong stand in the pocket throw they I give him coodos for but not really a scramble from the pocket type that we see in the NFL. Brady? Unfortunately playing with the scrubs (OL) many of his positive plays are of that variety. And I love the way he throws when he moves to his left....not many QBs can do that.
JMHO - 08? I've said it before its DA's team and his great opportunity to show us he's THE ONE. I've said all BQ will do is determine how wide that window of opportunity is pending on his play.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Just clicking on you
What I find amazing about this whole thread and debate, was that so many said DA could never inprove his short game and that he had hit his ceiling. I think he is getting better in his short game, and feel that these claims were made from bias.
As for your comments Ammo, MAJOR holes? Come on, shortcomings maybe, but major holes is a bit of an overstatement IMO.
As for Quinn, yes he is a first round pick, but he still is untested. So until he actually plays a few games and shows me he doesn't have flaws in his game, I'm sticking with the sure thing.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Just clicking on you
What I find amazing about this whole thread and debate, was that so many said DA could never inprove his short game and that he had hit his ceiling. I think he is getting better in his short game, and feel that these claims were made from bias.
As for your comments Ammo, MAJOR holes? Come on, shortcomings maybe, but major holes is a bit of an overstatement IMO.
As for Quinn, yes he is a first round pick, but he still is untested. So until he actually plays a few games and shows me he doesn't have flaws in his game, I'm sticking with the sure thing.
I think being unable to hit the broadside of a barn on short throws and running throws is more than just "shortcomings." They're major holes.
That said, DA looks to have improved in those situations. I was impressed by his running throw to Stallworth in the scrimmage. He made another one to Dinkins IIRC.
I need to see more before I can truly judge. So far I'm giddy as a schoolgirl over his potential this year.
Last edited by Ammo; 08/16/08 01:13 PM.
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"I think he is getting better in his short game, and feel that these claims were made from bias."
1. I never say never...lol
I have in the past think that some footwork improvement just might not be possible with his size 16 feet being the culprit involved. Other than a physical liability - anything is possible, not always probable but possible.
2. bias...pray tell - you think he is getting better in his short game. What? Where? and When? as mentioned I have an open mind - make your case. Or should I go on the fact that "you think" alone??? btw wouldn't that be bias 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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The problem with touch and accuracy are "holes" in his game. How can you judge that he's improved on them? He was in for ONE SERIES of preseason work. He didn't show improvement in that one series. That doesn't mean by ANY means that he hasn't improved his weaknesses, but it also doesn't mean he has.
It is going to take time to see if DA has improved. If everyone would sit back and relax, we're in a great situation. If DA doesn't improve his weaknesses only two things can happen. We can continue to win despite some weaknesses or we can turn to another developing QB and see if he can get the job done. What is the big deal? EVERY other team in the league would love to have our QB situation as far as depth. Only in Cleveland can we turn it into a negative and start a pissing match over it.
There have been many that voiced VALID concerns. I have yet to see anyone say that DA CAN'T improve his weaknesses, just that he has weaknesses. Why that is wrong, I have no idea. It seems like some think the minute that someone puts on a brown jersey, they should immediately be inducted in the HOF and anyone that dare not sing nothing but praise is a "hater". Ironically, many of these are the same ones that rode other players out of town on a rail.
Here's an idea, stop trying to label people for disagreeing with you and look at what they are saying. There's nothing wrong with thinking DA is a franchise QB if that's your opinion. There's nothing wrong with supporting DA while questioning his weaknesses (does anyone here really believe that the coach's themselves don't question them? Get real if you think that). Read what the concerns are and stop trying to minimalize it because DA is a Brown and look at it objectively. I have not seen ONE POST that says that DA shouldn't get a shot this year, that they are positive he can't improve, etc. I have seen people worry about his flaws and if he can over come them. I promise you that even the coaches want to have the answers to the same questions. They wouldn't be the coaches they are if they didn't have concern about ANY player and them improving their weaknesses.
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That was a very good post.
If everyone used the simple concepts and ideas you laid out to discuss and debate the situation, things wouldn't turn ugly.
The problem is everyone has their preference and everyone thinks they know best. So when critiquing DA, for example, it's done in a way to boost Quinn - not simply to discuss DA's area of improvements as if Quinn wasn't on the team. People just can't resist pimping their guy - directly or indirectly.
Heck, if Quinn wasn't on the team, I bet DA would be a hero around here, warts and all.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I don't know about that. If BQ weren't on the team, I'd still be concerned with DA's weaknesses. I will say this. I think no matter which way the FO goes, a very good QB is going to be leaving our team. It will have to happen eventually, but I honestly see both as being successful in the league. We will have to eventually trade one and get the most we can out of them. It won't come back to bite us, but many will perceive it that way no matter who we end up letting go.
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Quote:
I don't know about that. If BQ weren't on the team, I'd still be concerned with DA's weaknesses. I will say this. I think no matter which way the FO goes, a very good QB is going to be leaving our team. It will have to happen eventually, but I honestly see both as being successful in the league. We will have to eventually trade one and get the most we can out of them. It won't come back to bite us, but many will perceive it that way no matter who we end up letting go.
What do you think we can get out of each? j/w
I'd hope at least a first and third.
Also...what is "acceptable accuracy." Can we live with spotty accuracy if the decision making is generally good?
Last edited by Ammo; 08/16/08 02:35 PM.
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I don't know about that. If BQ weren't on the team, I'd still be concerned with DA's weaknesses.
I think posters like yourself who are involved in the game and understand it would still critique - and rightfully so. But the majority of the average Joe fans who understand the basics of the game - but not as in depth as a few on here - would be singing his praises.
It's hard not to prefer the good looking guy with the first round pedigree. It's hard to believe that a 6th round guy isn't a one year wonder. But if that 6th round guy who just had one of the best seasons ever for a Browns QB was the only option, DA would get a lot more love by most of the fans. Instead of 'DA can't improve' it would be 'DA can improve'. He would be our Tom Brady or Marc Bulger.
As to your other point, I also agree. We are going to lose a very good QB, but there is no way around it. Both guys are going to be starters next year for two different teams. Hopefully, we hitch our wagons to the better of the two and never look back.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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It depends on which one goes, to be honest. If DA falters or doesn't improve, I don't see a 1st and 3rd at all. If BQ goes, it's possible to get that. The reason for my thinking is that BQ won't be considered to have not gotten the job done, just that DA came out and lit it up. There's no negative connotation if it's BQ, so the value would probably be higher than a player that is replaced. I hope that makes sense.
You raise a good question about accuracy. The biggest concern for me isn't the accuracy with the receivers having to make amazing plays on some spotty passes. My biggest concern are the shorter throws that aren't even close. DA must develop more touch. Right now, as far as we've seen, he puts too much into the short passes and is "aiming" them (again, if that makes sense). It causes him to over throw (not over the head, but in the delivery style) and the ball is either at the feet (from holding it too long in the motion) or way off in most cases. DA just needs to adjust his footwork and his velocity, IMO, and the accuracy will increase dramatically.
I will give an example and I know it was just ONE PASS and doesn't mean it is always that way in what I"m saying. The swing pass to Lewis last week that was thrown way too hard and on the back shoulder even with Lewis trying to reach back for it. This pass must be thrown with better touch and less velocity. The QB can't get in too much a hurry and just heave the ball. He has to be able to still put a little air on it an take something off the velocity. They have to keep their cool and not get rushed into a bad throw. I'm not saying DA IS doing this or if he is, he hasn't improved. Just pointing out what COULD be happening and that regardless of why, it is something that needs corrected.
So, if DA corrects the velocity and footwork, the accuracy will improve immensely. As I've said many times, he may have already done so. We just don't know yet with only one series in a preseason game.
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My opinion on him getting better in the short game comes from a few days at camp, and watching the preseason game. I have gone to camp since DA arrived, and actually was one who wanted him gone after watching him in camp last year. But this year, be it confidence or something else, he does seem to look better in all phases TO ME. Now I say that so you understand that this is not a professional judgement, just my opinion. This also is to explain where I get my opinion from, not just "thinking" as you say.
As for the short passes, he seems to be more accurate with them, but still throws them too hard.
The comments about him being unable to improve have always bugged me. It is funny, because it is noted quite a bit how they have been working with BQ's mechanics, but it is never that he can't change after all the years playing a certain way. In DA's case, it is said over and over that he could never change because of muscle memory and stuff like that. That's when I believe the bias shows up.
Is BQ some kind of atheletic wonder that he can change his mechanics for the better at will but DA is some lesser athelete that it would be impossible for him to do. This is what baffles me.
By the way, size 16 shoes on a 6 foot 6 man are kinda like putting a size 13 on a 6 foot man. To me that is a rediculous arguement. My son is 13 years old and 6 ft 1. he wears a size 14, and is the second fastest kid on his team, and probably one of the most agile. IMO footwork is achieved by agility, not the size of your feet.
#gmstrong
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I've often said the same thing...it's his shorter throws that concern me. You're absolutely right about the lack of touch on the shorter throws. Have you looked at the footage from Family Night? I'm basing a lot of what I'm evaluating on both family night and the first game. His short game looks improved. To what degree it's improved, I don't know yet. But he definitely looks improved to some degree on his shorter throws. And on the run as well.
I think based on the deep balls I've seen, his deep ball has improved, it has more air under it.
I'm ok with his intermediate throws...Afterall they're his biggest strength.
Am I right when I say his decision making improved despite his INT's going up near the end? I think what hurt him was the inability to connect on the shorter stuff, thus putting him in situations where he had to force it.
Last edited by Ammo; 08/16/08 02:51 PM.
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Here's an idea, stop trying to label people for disagreeing with you and look at what they are saying. There's nothing wrong with thinking DA is a franchise QB if that's your opinion. There's nothing wrong with supporting DA while questioning his weaknesses (does anyone here really believe that the coach's themselves don't question them? Get real if you think that).
How am I "labeling" people? Because I've seen bias, and call a spade a spade? Also, I was replying in general, not to just one person, I wasn't jumping someone for disagreeing with me. Seems to me you are offended by what I've said, maybe you need to step back. How's that for and "idea"?
I've seen him in camp besides the one series of preseason.
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There have been many that voiced VALID concerns. I have yet to see anyone say that DA CAN'T improve his weaknesses, just that he has weaknesses. Why that is wrong, I have no idea. It seems like some think the minute that someone puts on a brown jersey, they should immediately be inducted in the HOF and anyone that dare not sing nothing but praise is a "hater". Ironically, many of these are the same ones that rode other players out of town on a rail.
I'm not going back to almost last year, but there has definately been those on here that stated as fact that he could not improve. If you don't believe me fine, but the ones who said it know they did, so don't act as if I'm making it up.
The comment abot the HOF is just assinine, and after that being directed at me I could no longer hold your opinion about anything I say as worth a pint of...well you know.
In closing, to act as if I've ever said or even implied that DA is a "franchise QB", whatever that's supposed to be anyway, is bull.
I'm sorry that in your eyes, my opinion is less than yours, but in mine, it doesn't matter. Does being a coach mean somehow you have a better opinion? If it does, how do you know I haven't coached before?
#gmstrong
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First, I was making a general statement. I apologize that you took it as being directed at you. Two different thoughts going into one thread can be unclear to those reading. There are many with the mentatliy I described. It wasn't directed at you in particular.
As for your assessment of improvement, we still don't know. Remember, DA has always been great in shorts. That doesn't translate into games. So, as I said, we still don't know.
Me being a coach doesn't mean my opinion matters more than yours. However, it does mean that I look at things differently than you do. There are many knowledgeable people on this board, so I"m not trying to be insulting whatn I say that. Vers, Diam (except when it comes to his loyalty to BQ LOL), eotab, and many others have shown that knowledge. In fact, I know that Vers and Diam are/were coaches. Regardless, let me tell you from personal experience this year. There is a huge leap from fan to even a high school coach. Another leap to a college coach (as I am experiencing this year going from high school head coach to a college assistant), and an even greater leap to the NFL. Things are just looked at differently, assessed differently, and determined differently. So, it doesn't make it any more important, but having been in the league, learned from those in the league and in college, and having coached, I do understand a little more what coaches at that level are looking for.
All of that means nothing more than there are a handful of us that understand a little more the thought process. It doesn't make us better or our opinions carry more weight. What it does, is if you read those that have that insight, is helps you understand a little more how these things are done at that level whether you agree with the conclusions or not (a perfect example is that Vers and I have disagreed on many things but use the same approach in coming to our conclusions). That only helps you understand the game you love better.
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I only got to see Family night on STO as I was preparing for our season, along with helping the new coach at the high school get things prepared (not leaving the alma mater out to dry  ). DA has improved his shortgame at times. How much is unknown and there must be consistency shown in that as well. I'm looking forward to the next few games to see his progress.
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Appreciate the explanation and hope I didn't come across a little crass.
As for my assessment of his improvement, I do study the game a lot. I understand a lot of the philosophies applied by many coaches over the years, and all I ever do is give my opinion. I'm not stating that it is fact or otherwise, just that it's mine, and I do have some knowledge of things.
Anyway, again thanks for the explanation, and showing some humility. Something that is rare on these boards.
#gmstrong
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Remember, DA has always been great in shorts.
Ummm, not really...which is why he didn't WIN the job last year.
I've liked DA since the Kansas City game...I saw something there. I remember Crennel saying the same thing. He didn't blow anyone's skirt up last year in camp...thus the coin flip, and the Steelers debacle. The fact that he is actually proving himself as the starter in this camp, is a step in the right direction.
I have no ill will towards Brady at all. I would really love to see what he can do with the hollow points instead of the blanks. But, in a way, he put himself in that position, so to speak, by holding out. DA seized his opportunity and the rest is history. 10 wins later, I believe in the guy, and really don't see why arguing about his shortcomings all the time will really accomplish. Whatever we say on this board has been told to him 10 fold. We all know that Crennel will check his players.
It's a very fortunate situation we're in, and yes, a good qb will leave at some point...we think, since there still is a question about both of them. There's evidence to suggest at this point that DA is a good qb. Can he improve his game...he better, we CAN'T have repeats of Arizona and Cincy. We truly have no idea what Quinn can truly do yet. So to say he's a good qb, really has no backing behind it. He was a good qb in college and in parts of pre season games.
It's just my opinion that trying to drive a wedge between these two qb's on the brink of a season where we have a legitimate chance to do something special, just isn't worthwhile. If we were coming off of another 4 win season, then I could see the arguing, but we had a pretty magical season last year, and DA was a major factor in that. The dude put up W's. I believe 2 losses can be pinned on him, those I mentioned earlier, but at least in those games, we were still in a position to win at the end. That's huge. A lot of that was DA finishing games relatively strong, and that's when you want your qb to show off. Unfortunately, sometimes he dug himself to big a hole. But for a first year starter, that should be expected.
Anyway, I'm ready for the damn season to start 
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Not to quibble because there is enough of that going already, but: Quote:
You forget we did sign him to a 3 year contract.
We didn't even consider negotiating a 5+ year contract.
You asked another poster if they were married to a coach and got "pillow talk" to get their full opinion, but now you unequivocally state that we didn't even consider offering him a 5 year contract. How do you know this? Are you married to Trip McCracken?
I've explained the business logic behind the 3 year deal on more than one occasion on here in regard to the changes that came with the owners' pullout from the CBA. I don't know if it a 5 year deal was kicked around or not....and NEITHER DO YOU.
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I spelled out that I saw the INTANGIBLES TO MAKE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING from BQ. To just state a vague "intangibles" with no meaning and state neither is right. Well I'm not so quick as you to tell King Solomon go ahead cut that baby in half.
I know what I see and trust my judgement and spelled out the intangible BQ has shown that he has it...DA has shown that he doesn't. If you can state your case where DA has...I have an open mind.
But I can count on 3 fingers the plays DA has made out of nothing. Thats with 18 starts. 2 of them had him running with the ball, Bernie style.
How many fingers can you count on to get BQ's number of NFL plays to be able to validate these intangibles you speak of?
They both looked great in shorts last week when I was at camp. DA's touch on the short stuff was beyond reproach. However, this was in shorts without anyone coming at him full bore in a different colored jersey....
Public sessions of camp are over. That means it's almost time for the real deal. It's nearly the time when the deadbate can really get into full swing when we see DA in REAL action with another year under his belt and his confidence level high from not being in a circus show like last year.
My biggest impression from camp last week?? They're ready.....as another poster oft says- hang on and enjoy!
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He's down with being No. 1 --- Browns' Anderson takes charge in training camp
by Mary Kay Cabot
Saturday August 16, 2008, 8:55 PM
Browns quarterback Derek Anderson is so relaxed and confident during this training camp that he broke out into a jig during warmups Saturday afternoon while Alabama's "Mountain Music" blared over the loudspeaker.
"My overall understanding of things this year has given me a lot more confidence," said Anderson. "Obviously, the situation was a little bit different last year and I was a little unsure of things. This year, I have a better grasp of the big picture."
Last preseason, Anderson was learning Rob Chudzinski's new scheme while also trying to beat out Charlie Frye -- who had the loyalty of teammates such as tight end Kellen Winslow. The combination had Anderson wound tighter than a roll of trainer's tape and he couldn't cut loose in camp.
"Derek just seems way more confident this year, not having to worry about a quarterback controversy or losing his spot," said receiver Josh Cribbs. "He knows he's got it and that we're leaning on him and depending on him to have a good season. He seems so much more comfortable in that role."
Cribbs has noticed that Anderson is directing traffic more than he did last year, helping the receivers know where to be and huddling with them after every rep.
"That was Charlie Frye's job last year and D.A. kind of stayed in the background until he was named the starter," said Cribbs. "But this year, he's been more assertive, saying 'hey Josh, come over here, hey Donte [Stallworth], do this or don't do that.'"
Anderson agrees he may have been reluctant to step on Frye's toes, but attributes his take-charge attitude more to knowing the offense. "He's been more assertive, saying 'hey Josh, come over here, hey Donte [Stallworth], do this or don't do that,' said Josh Cribbs.
"Before, I was just trying to learn it myself," he said. "Now, I'm trying to perfect it and be precise. Plus, with having guys in and out of the lineup because of injuries, I've had to help guys know where to go. We also have new things in every now and then, so it's my job."
Because he's such a laid-back guy, most fans underestimate just how hard Anderson worked in the off-season to improve. He studied film from every game, brought home tapes of Dallas and Pittsburgh to prepare for the first two weeks, worked on his mobility, his touch on the shorter passes and techniques such as throwing to his left. He also had extensive Thai massage to improve his flexibility.
"He's worked his tail off," said quarterbacks coach Rip Scherer. "He's grown a lot and matured as a person and a quarterback. He understands now the responsibility that comes with that position and what it takes to be successful. He has the ability and he has a way about him. He carries himself like a quarterback."
One of the major mechanical things he worked on was underneath throws -- releasing the ball at the same level but taking a little speed off of it. The results so far?
"Well, I have two jammed fingers," said Jamal Lewis with a laugh, holding up two swollen digits. "He has been taking a little bit off the ball, but with Derek, he just flings his wrist and it comes straight to you. I've dropped three balls because of that, but hey, if it touches your hands, you're supposed to catch it. Derek's a good quarterback. You just have to know how it's going to come."
The hardest part for Anderson this camp has been not having his full supporting cast, with Stallworth, Steve Heiden, Kellen Winslow, Kevin Kasper and Braylon Edwards all missing parts of camp.
"It stinks not having Braylon [out up to two weeks with a cut foot]," said Anderson. "And we didn't have Donte for a while, but I think some of the younger receivers got better because of it. We'll put it all together. It's just going to take a little time. The biggest thing is getting Braylon back. He knows his stuff and he's a smart guy. We'll throw him back in there and he'll be ready to go."
From what Cribbs has seen, the sky's the limit for Anderson.
"I can't wait until he gets older," said Cribbs. "He's going to bloom into one of the Peyton Mannings or Tom Bradys of this league."
Stallworth, who played with Brady in New England last season, can see that happening eventually.
"He's got all the smarts and all the tools to make all the throws," he said. "A major part of it is him continuing to work, and he's got some guys around him like Ken Dorsey and Rob Chudzinski to help out if he has any questions. He's got a lot of ability and potential."
And if he keeps up this way, he'll have everyone kicking up their heels.
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How do you know this? Are you married to Trip McCracken?
LOL
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Stallworth, who played with Brady in New England last season, can see that happening eventually.
"He's got all the smarts and all the tools to make all the throws," he said. "A major part of it is him continuing to work, and he's got some guys around him like Ken Dorsey and Rob Chudzinski to help out if he has any questions. He's got a lot of ability and potential."
and this is the only reason Dorsey is with the Browns today and why he will probably retire as a 3rd string coach for us I mean QB. I think everyone knows Dorsey is too valueable to let go for somoeone who might, maybe have potential to be a good QB. Especially since eventually if it's BQ or DA we will have to groom another backup for 2 years after next year. So I think the Browns know they nened him for at least 3 more years maybe 4 if not longer.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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"I can't wait until he gets older," said Cribbs. "He's going to bloom into one of the Peyton Mannings or Tom Bradys of this league."
That's high praise.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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That's high praise.
Very.
I get very excited when I read these kinds of articles. I like hearing about just how hard he's worked to improve on his short game and his throwing on the run.
Decision-making will come with experience, and in fact I still believe his decision making improved down the stretch despite his INT's going up...believe it was the short game accuracy that killed him and caused him to force it because he was in 3rd and long, 2nd and long, etc.
Make no mistake about it, if he can complete above 60% of his throws and the overall accuracy of the throws matches the completion percentage (before anyone jumps on me for spewing out stats), he goes to the Pro Bowl.
He can throw over 4000 yards with this offense this year, IMO. I'd like to see him reduce his INT's to under 12 as well.
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It's articles like this that almost make me buy into the theory that the Browns feel they know what they have in Quinn and they believe his floor is no lower than a solid starter, a guy you can win with ... but they think DA can be very special - Top 5 - and want to see if he can take those next steps.
If he doesn't, we go with Quinn. If he does, we go with him.
One thing is for sure, the players like him and that's HUGE. It can be argued that they are just saying what they are supposed to say, but I'm reading a little more into the praise than that. It seems like they really believe in him.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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One thing is for sure, the players like him and that's HUGE. It can be argued that they are just saying what they are supposed to say, but I'm reading a little more into the praise than that. It seems like they really believe in him. Unfortunately, we also read the same kind of comments about Kelly Holcomb and Charlie Frye. That turned out well.......  Anderson may turn out to be the best thing since sliced bread. I hope so. But let's see if we're hearing these same comments after a couple of losses. That'll be more impressive than hearing them in the middle of training camp after 1 meaningless preseason game.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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None the less, there appears to be clear separation at the position.
It's far better to be hearing this than the guy is stinking up the joint.
But your right...I am sure the first loss will bring out the calls for an examination of the position.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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You can strike that entire comment from my post if you want. It's only my own personal read on what the players think. But no one ever compared Couch or Holcomb to the top 2 QBs in the league...but anyway...
The most important part of the post is what I feel is really going on here and why there was no QB competition.
Just my own possible hypothesis of the situation. I'm not stating it like it's a fact because the truth is I don't know.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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