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BTW ... BQ will be a MUCH MUCH BETTER QB IN THIS LEAGUE THAN DA ... you'll see .. 
Dose this means you too lost hope, BQ will get his chance with browns as starting QB 
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and DAMMIT I am happier than a pig in crap
That's been my overused term today.
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Well Damon, as you know, in business, and yes, in life in general, we must consider "possibilities and scenarios" that we may be faced with. I think you know, that after this year, our Browns will likely commit to one QB or the other. So you call it "IF'S", while I like to look ahead at the possibilities. If you simply don't wish to answer the questions, that's fine. But don't pretend you haven't already considered this situation and already have your opinions on it. You just don't want to post it...............  And to answer your question? (even though you don't want an answer), I'll give you one..................... Chicago Bears  I'll base the QB play on the QB. Not the W's and L's. If there is great room for improvement, I'm FOR that improvement. That's how "dynasty's" are built. And that's what I'm after here.....................
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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DIAM is KING
DIAM is THE MAN
DIAM is NEVER WRONG
DIAM is the man we should all BOW DOWN TOO
DIAM has football Knowledge that FAR surpasses anyone currently coaching in the NFL, College or High School level.
DIAM is the ALL KNOWING, NEVER OVERBEARING KEEPER OF THE ETERNAL FLAME OF FOOTBALL TRUTH...
Compared to the VAST MAJORITY of posters on here, those statements would be correct!
To Edit;
Well, accept for the overbearing part.
But who am I to point fingers at others on that one............
Last edited by PitDAWG; 08/16/08 11:55 AM.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I think you know, that after this year, our Browns will likely commit to one QB or the other.
I know that it's possible, but I also know that it doesn't have to happen. Both are under contract... As it stands right now, both would have to accept what they are given and take it like the good, solid young men I believe them to be.
Those that feel we are better off with one or the other, I think want it to happen the way you suggest..
As for the if's,, why in heavens name would I waste my time answering those questions.. I don't even remember what they were, and I'm not going to go look either..
My reasoning is rather simple, whenever anyone asks those "IF" type questions, they are most times trying to steer people to a certain conclusion,, And in every case, when the person doesn't feel that way, and states it, a verbal battle ensues..
I've basically decided that I'm not up for that anymore.. I"ve decided I would rather deal with what's in front of me and not what might happen in areas I have little to no control over.
Oh, and I am not sure what you mean about the Chicago reference..... sorry. I went back and looked to see if I asked you anthing that can be answered with a team name or city,, and I didn't see it. Perhaps it's from a different post of mine,, but I am not sure which...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Sorry, but it doesn't "have" to happen, but it is almost a certainty it will. Put yourself in either player's shoes. If you were DA and had the year you did, would you accept going back to the bench after this season if the FO decided to put BQ in?
Converserly,. if you were BQ, would you accept being stuck as a backup QB for your career if the FO decides that DA is the man in Cleveland?
The answer to both is a resounding NO. Both of these QBs, no matter of their constrasting styles, are confident in their abilities and skills. They both believe themselves to be starters and franchise QBs. Neither would accept a permanent backup role after this year, nor should anyone expect them to. If they did, neither would be the players we thought they were/could be. Bottom line is that after this year, a decision will be made and it is almost a certainty that one or the other will be in another uniform.
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Sorry, but it doesn't "have" to happen, but it is almost a certainty it will.
Yup, it could happen, but again, I'm not convinced that it will... Yes, if BQ isn't starting, he's gonna get antsy.. I would,,,,,, and same with DA.. you can count on it. But again, they are under contract and neither can do a darn thing except disrupt the team chemistry.. and I'll say this again, I don't think either guy is gonna do that...
The perfect situation is for one of them to clearly show, they are the man.. then we could trade the other.
The worse situation is, DA sucks and falls apart... The reason for me saying it's a bad thing is, if he does that, he won't be worth much on the trading block.
The best thing for us is that both guys keep thier value, and at the end of the year, if the situation becomes untenable, then we get good stuff in return for the one the FO decided to trade.
But again, I just have this feeling that it's not going to end this year.. I really think it's one more after this.. Just a guess.. Means nothing.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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My reasoning is rather simple, whenever anyone asks those "IF" type questions, they are most times trying to steer people to a certain conclusion,, And in every case, when the person doesn't feel that way, and states it, a verbal battle ensues..
Not trying to "steer you" anywhere.
Just trying to ask what would be "your yardstick"?
In business, and you know it to be true, you must have contingency plans. And I'm simply trying to figure out what yours are.
I wondered if you would gauge DA's improvement based on his performance, or simplys W's and L's?
What would DA "have to do or not do" for you to see a need for change or that no change is needed?
Really basic stuff that it appears you simply refuse to address.
And that's fine. Riding the fence makes it far easier to never be wrong or never having to commit. I can understand that.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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What would DA "have to do or not do" for you to see a need for change or that no change is needed?
Really basic stuff that it appears you simply refuse to address.
And that's fine. Riding the fence makes it far easier to never be wrong or never having to commit. I can understand that.
I won't speak for Daman, but I believe the fence, in this case, is really the only place to be.
I know teams change and last years record isn't always a good indicator of next years schedule, but I think a lot of people understand that we could play better (and DA could play better) than we did last year and we could end up with the same or slightly worse of a record.. or DA could actually be no better but our defense might be better enough to get us another W or 2..... I don't think you can base DA's improvement on Ws and Ls at all.
Likewise I don't think there are a lot of measurables.... there are some, if his completion % goes up, that could mean something.. but in the end, you just have to watch and make the totally subjective determination as to whether or not he is helping the offense more or hurting more.... then make an even greater subjective determination as to whether or not Quinn would be better...
yebat' Putin
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What would DA "have to do or not do" for you to see a need for change or that no change is needed?
Really basic stuff that it appears you simply refuse to address.
And that's fine. Riding the fence makes it far easier to never be wrong or never having to commit. I can understand that.
I won't speak for Daman, but I believe the fence, in this case, is really the only place to be.
I know teams change and last years record isn't always a good indicator of next years schedule, but I think a lot of people understand that we could play better (and DA could play better) than we did last year and we could end up with the same or slightly worse of a record.. or DA could actually be no better but our defense might be better enough to get us another W or 2..... I don't think you can base DA's improvement on Ws and Ls at all.
Likewise I don't think there are a lot of measurables.... there are some, if his completion % goes up, that could mean something.. but in the end, you just have to watch and make the totally subjective determination as to whether or not he is helping the offense more or hurting more.... then make an even greater subjective determination as to whether or not Quinn would be better...
" subjective " ... That be the same as guessing ?
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And you are touching on what I was asking DC. I mean if DA does better on his short game, I would say there's a sign of improvement. If we can get "DA with wings"  "better footwork and mobility", that would be improvement. If he increases his accuracy on the run in roll out situations, that would be an improvement. Basicly, it was a rather simplistic question to see what Damon bases "improvement from DA on" and at what point he felt there may come a time to make a move at the position in regards to a lack of improvement if the situation suggests such. Just basicly asking him his yardstick on the DA situation. But if you don't have one, then I guess you can position yourself anywhere at any time in the future huh?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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but I believe the fence, in this case, is really the only place to be.
Unless you are on my side of the fence, then you are in great position!
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Just trying to ask what would be "your yardstick"?
As DC had pointed out better than I could, the variables are too many to look at it today through a Crystal Ball.
DA could have a statistically amazing year and we could be 4-12, DA could have a Statiscally horrid year and we could go 12-4.
You are asking me a "what if" on something that isn't as easlly answered in a simply fashion.. Too darn many variables..
The variables are too many.... No way to answer without speculating and speculateing leads to angry exchanges..
I'm just not going to go there...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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All-righty then. You have no gauges, earmarks or obstacles for DA to overcome that you will use as a guideline to wheather he has improved or not............................. Makes sense................. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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but I believe the fence, in this case, is really the only place to be.
Unless you are on my side of the fence, then you are in great position!
The only way I want to be on your side of the fence is if you have the grilled fired up and a cooler full of beer.
yebat' Putin
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All-righty then.
You have no gauges, earmarks or obstacles for DA to overcome that you will use as a guideline to wheather he has improved or not.............................
Makes sense.................
What he's trying to say is it's too hard to consider all the variables that COULD happen. It's not like this is a control situation in a lab.
How should we know how he's gonna do if we lose 2 crucial linemen? Or Edwards or Winslow?
Yes there are measurables like overall accuracy, but should his game stumble for reasons out of his control, those are those variables that matter.
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All-righty then.
You have no gauges, earmarks or obstacles for DA to overcome that you will use as a guideline to wheather he has improved or not.............................
Makes sense.................
Yes he does, and they are largely the same as mine (Daman, jump in here if I'm wrong)... If DA doesn't have a handful of games where he throws early INTs which put us in a big hole, that will be an improvement. If he can get off to some fast starts and score more points early to get some leads, that would be an improvement.. If our backs and other short routes can catch the ball in a position to run with it more times than not and not have to extend out and risk getting their head taken off, that would be an improvement.... these things are just not easily quantifiable Pit...
yebat' Putin
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You have no gauges, earmarks or obstacles for DA to overcome that you will use as a guideline to wheather he has improved or not.............................
THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID..... See, this is what I was trying to avoid... Don't misrepresent me..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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You have no gauges, earmarks or obstacles for DA to overcome that you will use as a guideline to wheather he has improved or not.............................
THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID..... See, this is what I was trying to avoid... Don't misrepresent me..
I have to agree with you Daman...if anything you said there are TOO many obstacles, earmarks, etc. to speculate about.
At least that's what I got out of it.
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If DA doesn't have a handful of games where he throws early INTs which put us in a big hole, that will be an improvement. If he can get off to some fast starts and score more points early to get some leads, that would be an improvement.. If our backs and other short routes can catch the ball in a position to run with it more times than not and not have to extend out and risk getting their head taken off, that would be an improvement.... these things are just not easily quantifiable Pit...
Those are just some of the variables, but yes, things like that are what I'm talking about.
What about this one: What "IF" DA has a statiscally amazing year but the D allows more points than we put up... is it DA's problem? Should we get a new QB that puts up more points and leave the poor D alone?
You are asking me to read a crystal ball to determine what I will accept or not accept as a good performance by DA without looking at contributing factors..
I'm not going to play along with that thinking.. I'm not going to allow you to steer me down a slippery slope.. and yes, you are trying to steer me towards a conclusion and all the denial in the world won't change it..
But, in an effort to have peace in the valley:
Just for you PIT
QUINN IS AMAZING
QUINN IS THE MORE POWERFUL ARMED QB ON THE PLANET
QUINN IS THE ONE THAT WILL LEAD US TO THE PROMISED LAND
AND PIT IS THE ONE THAT TAUGHT ME THOSE FACTS...
There, do you feel better now?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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You have no gauges, earmarks or obstacles for DA to overcome that you will use as a guideline to wheather he has improved or not.............................
THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID..... See, this is what I was trying to avoid... Don't misrepresent me..
I have to agree with you Daman...if anything you said there are TOO many obstacles, earmarks, etc. to speculate about.
At least that's what I got out of it.
Precisely. Pit's agenda has been made very clear - he does not like DA, no matter what.
Let's toss it back to pit - pit, what you are saying is you'd like to see improvement from DA on his accuracy in short throws, and in his footwork. So, if he does that, but we are 0-6, you'd still stick with him? Is that what you are saying?
You're asking/demanding someone to quantify the unquantifiable. Why don't YOU do it?
What is your basis for who starts?
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Not at all Arch. Actually DA seems like a nice guy. He has a rocket for an arm. Quote:
Let's toss it back to pit - pit, what you are saying is you'd like to see improvement from DA on his accuracy in short throws, and in his footwork. So, if he does that, but we are 0-6, you'd still stick with him? Is that what you are saying?
If he isn't the "reason we're losing"? Yes
You see, what Damon and others seem to be ignoring, is that I'm asking about "DA's game". Not "other variables" or W's and L's.
But it's a great way to avoid the question!
Basicly, what would it take to "sale you guys" that DA IS our future franchise QB? I mean in HIS GAME, not everybody elses.
But you keep talking about "variables". And even if we DO get OL injuries, won't that tell you a lot? Will he throw it away, or force it and create turnovers?
There are no variables on "how DA plays".
You see, many wish to give DA "credit for 10 wins". Yet when cornered on "looking for improvement", they wish to say they can't answer that based upon "variables".
Trying to have their cake and eat it too...............
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Just for you PIT
QUINN IS AMAZING
QUINN IS THE MORE POWERFUL ARMED QB ON THE PLANET
QUINN IS THE ONE THAT WILL LEAD US TO THE PROMISED LAND
AND PIT IS THE ONE THAT TAUGHT ME THOSE FACTS...
There, do you feel better now?
Oh yes, I do!
It just shows that you have no way to answer a question and simply throw trash in response. Great thing you did there!
Once again Damon, it's about "DA's game". Not Quinn. But you want to do the diversionary tactic. For some unGodly reason, I expected more from you than that. But I won't make that mistake again.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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You see, what Damon and others seem to be ignoring, is that I'm asking about "DA's game". Not "other variables" or W's and L's.
'How in heavens name do you address critiqueing DA"s game without taking into consideration the variables..
I mean,, DA puts 6 passes in to Braylons edwards hands and he drops them all... That's 6 incompletions,,, no matter how you slice it it's 6 incompletions.. looking at that, maybe the thought is, DA is Falling apart.. but upon further review.. it's not DA..
And you yourself are looking at the exact same variables.,
What's your response to this question: "So, if he does that, but we are 0-6, you'd still stick with him? Is that what you are saying?"
and you said in return: Quote:
If he isn't the "reason we're losing"? Yes
So, you just qualified your response... As long as he's not the reason, then you would keep him in.. but you don't want me to do that, you want me to respond to your ifs without considering the variables..
It's nonsense...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Let's toss it back to pit - pit, what you are saying is you'd like to see improvement from DA on his accuracy in short throws, and in his footwork. So, if he does that, but we are 0-6, you'd still stick with him? Is that what you are saying?
If he isn't the "reason we're losing"? Yes
You see, what Damon and others seem to be ignoring, is that I'm asking about "DA's game". Not "other variables" or W's and L's.
Well, if that is what you're asking about, you're asking an impossible question. See, pit, football is NEVER about 1 player, much to your chagrin, I'm sure.
You want others to answer what you yourself refuse to, or, when you do, you throw "..if's... and but's ..." , but you won't take those same if's and but's from others. Typical, I know.
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Let me see if I can boil this down for you guys...... Pit doesn't really think DA is "all that and a can of beer". Arch does. Daman goes whichever way the wind blows. See how much typing I just saved you guys. You can thank me at the opener with a beer.......
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Daman goes whichever way the wind blows.
That shows how much you pay attention to what I say... Brilliant...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Does this mean no beer from you?..... 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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I'll say this about Quinn from what I saw tonight...
I don't think he's a backup-caliber QB whatsoever. He definitely looks like starting material.
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Let me see if I can boil this down for you guys......
Pit doesn't really think DA is "all that and a can of beer".
Arch does.
Daman goes whichever way the wind blows.
See how much typing I just saved you guys. You can thank me at the opener with a beer.......
You nailed pit.
As for me, I have stated over and over and over again - I do not care who starts. It could be YOU for all I care. All I have stated is the coaches see these guys a lot more than anyone on here, and they have decided to go with DA. No more, no less. I can and will support whoever starts.
So, basically, your summarization is wrong in regards to me.
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'How in heavens name do you address critiqueing DA"s game without taking into consideration the variables..
Ok Daman... I need you to assess DA's game tonight... go for it.
PS: You aren't allowed to mention to pressure, the lack of a running game, or the stupid penalties.
Ready, go. 
yebat' Putin
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'How in heavens name do you address critiqueing DA"s game without taking into consideration the variables..
Ok Daman... I need you to assess DA's game tonight... go for it.
PS: You aren't allowed to mention to pressure, the lack of a running game, or the stupid penalties.
Ready, go.
and the crowd goes silent
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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'How in heavens name do you address critiqueing DA"s game without taking into consideration the variables..
Ok Daman... I need you to assess DA's game tonight... go for it.
PS: You aren't allowed to mention to pressure, the lack of a running game, or the stupid penalties.
Ready, go.
Pretty easy, actually.
He looked inaccurate even when he had time to throw.
And he had time to throw until the snowball effect happened.
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And when did the "snowball effect" begin?
I think that you said it was the 2nd offensive series ...... and that included a hit as he threw, a loss of 1 on a run, and a 3rd and 11 which had Jaws commenting something along the lines of "The QB needs about 2 1/2 seconds to convert a 3rd and 11. Well, he didn't get it."
Neither QB played well IMHO.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
And when did the "snowball effect" begin?
I think that you said it was the 2nd offensive series ...... and that included a hit as he threw, a loss of 1 on a run, and a 3rd and 11 which had Jaws commenting something along the lines of "The QB needs about 2 1/2 seconds to convert a 3rd and 11. Well, he didn't get it."
Neither QB played well IMHO.
Yeah, Jaws made that comment but if Anderson wouldn't have thrown that ball at Wilson's feet, he would've converted. He had enough time to make the play but he wasn't locating a thing today. DA was off today and in a big way - everything he threw was too short, behind the receiver, etc.
Quinn wasn't incredible but he definitely looked solid and actually, he looked more comfortable and poised than DA did out there. Neither was spectacular but the worst you can say about Quinn is that he was decent while pretty much everyone who watched the game can say that DA stunk.
We're... we're good?
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Legend
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Legend
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What concerns me is that we really didn't move the ball effectively against the Giant's 1st team defense, except for the initla FG drive. Our next scoring drive came with 4 minutes or so left in the 1st half, and the Giants up 30-3.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I'm with you there - for a preseason game, this was about as bad as it gets. I suppose some of that can be attributed to not having Braylon/Jurevicius/Tucker but still... there's no reason it should've been THIS bad. We'd better get used to the primetime spotlight and facing talented teams pretty darn quick because our schedule is chock full of both.
I have a feeling that locker room was a bad place to be tonight once Romeo got back.
We're... we're good?
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Ok Daman... I need you to assess DA's game tonight... go for it.
PS: You aren't allowed to mention to pressure, the lack of a running game, or the stupid penalties.
*Crickets* My guess is that the critique will be vague and look earily similar to a middle of the road opinion...
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Anyone who thinks DA's bad game had nothing to do with DA is fooling themselves. He is what he's always been, an inconsistant QB. When he solves that we'll all stop arguing. Until then he's Tim Couch with a slightly better arm.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Legend
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Legend
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Does this mean no beer from you?.....
LOL Exactly
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Quinn a dink and dunk passer?
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