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Well, being that their own defense plays a Parcells 3-4 like ours, I don't think they needed much of Grantham's help in preparing for the type of defense, but he would be valuable in giving insight into our players on both sides of the ball. They also happen to run a similar vertical offense that has a big, physical, fast WR; an thletic field-stretching TE; and some talented Running backs. They didn't really need much to prepare for us because they ARE us, just at a later stage in the development process. They've got all the pieces and the chemistry... we're still putting that together.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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and all the RAC haters ..... PLEASE ..
no clue if hes going to be good or not but to be this hard on him is just ASSININE ..
In all due respect Diam....you say this and then go on to talk as if you know DQ will never be anything. How come you know about DQ but you dont about RAC?
(and no offense either I think DQ is terrible myself)
Is it because what players do on the field is so visible as compared to the coaches work which is invisible to us?
I am not sure a coaches work is invisible on the field, in fact I know it isnt. When a team look unprepared and flat it is the coaches fault. I agree with your comments about the Boys but we looked like absolute crap for the 3rd time in 3 openers under RAC.
Personnel aside......he hasnt won a single game with scheme or adjustments that I can remember. That to me says it all.
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Legend
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Personnel aside......he hasnt won a single game with scheme or adjustments that I can remember. That to me says it all.
HUH? 
RAC deserves credit for schemes and adjustments in every single one of our wins.. just as the players deserve credit for executing well enough to win... likewise they both deserve some blame for a loss. It's never just one or the other.
yebat' Putin
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Maybe not phrased the best way...
Give me one example where RAC's supposed defensive genius or scheme has enabled this team to win one where they were clearly outmatched personnel wise or an example where our half time adjustments on defense enabled us to stop the hemoraging on defense.
I dont care if people think I am nuts, but I think RAC was a stopgap coach that was picked to instill a consistency and professionalism in the organization. It is clear that he has little more than questionable ability as a head coach and that the only consistency he has provided is a soft coaching style that results in undisciplined players and little fire on the defensive side of the ball. I would love to be eating crow on monday but instead I will be eating from steeler fans for the beating we are going to endure. I hope it is as bas as I think it is going to be because the sooner he leaves the better off this organization will be.
I know we are short handed this week as far as players go but we have never been full strength in the coaching department since he took over.
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All Pro
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Nice assessment Attack. You are right on. It gets frustrating for us all having to be patient still, particularly since we saw some success last year. Winning only 7 or 8 games this year seems like a step back, even if during the season our defense grows and solidifies, preparing us for year five of the five year plan. But, despite the injuries and other speed bumps, Phil is on track with his plan. It would be so nice, though, if we could get it together enough to make the playoffs. Thanks for the level head, anyway.
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Why, after 3 years under RAC, do we still have press conferences where his answer to a question is "we were out of position?". Well, who's freaking job is it to make sure they are in position?
To answer your question, it's the players responsiblity to be where they are suppose to be, period. They are handsomely paid to do just that, be where your suppose to be when your suppose to be there.
Now if you want to talk about the players lack of talent, or their not fitting the system or the system not suited to the talent then that is an entirely different subject. But every offense and every defense is built around exacution.
Do you honestly think that the players are taught not to be in position?
It's hard for me to get on board with the idea that they aren't being taught where to be, and when to be there. That there not being taught what they need to key on.
A offense and a defense depending on the play need to fit together, and play off each other, Any player that fails to fit the puzzle exposes the balance of the team.
For instance this is actually the perfect example.
Repeatedly Adams in the Dallas game tipped his hand when he was called upon to blitz. Everyone including the Cowboys knew he was Blitzing. But when you go back to pre-season the coaching staff spent a great deal of time working on disguise. In fact Bernie talked about it during one of the pre season games, and said during the game they showed real improvement. Problem is that come game day Adams repeatedly tipped his hand, the moment he did the scheme was dead.
I realize thats not the same as saying he is out of position but it really amounts to the same theory poor play by the player. The player being coached to do a certain thing a certain way and not bringing it to the game. Of cource game experience, and film study help all players become better, but it really amounts to things as simple as be where your suppose to be when your suppose to be there, and that aint coaching thats playing.
JMHO
BTTB
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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Romeo's scheme didnt work for the Patriots. Bellichek's scheme was ran by Crennel. Just like Romeo's scheme is being ran by Mel Tucker.
RAC wasnt one of the best DC's for years, going off of memory his only time at DC before the Pats was his time here and do u really want to remember how that stint went. I didnt think so lol
The Pats won because Bellichek was the control freak and didnt allow Romeo to Fudge things up. Defense is his baby and doesnt matter who the DC is up there its his show.
I have seen enough now.
Making up lies to support your lost in space opinion crosses the line of reason. You have gone way way to far.
The idea that RAC was just one of BB's puppets was floated around by the press and by many fans. Until finally and thankfully one of the members of the press asked the question last season.
These are not RAC's exact words but they sum up his statement at that time.
Q Who designed and called the defensive game plan in NE?
RAC's Answer "I did". I decided what schemes we would run who would play and who would sit. And I called the game.
Now you can continue to tell what I will call a lie, but there it is. RAC may be many many many things but a liar is NOT ONE OF THEM...
If you didn't know now you do, if you choose to continue with this lie then so be it, but it is a lie none the less...
As I see it you know better, but choose to continue with the lie because you think somehow it supports your position, it doesn't..
JTHTruth.
BTTB
Sorry Clem I didn't see your posts before I responded thanks for bring the facts into the light of day. Hopefully ( I doubt it) we can move past this arguement that has been repeated over and over again without any bases in FACT.
To add to this point I guess is this.
If a poster rips a player and knows full well the player in question isn't up to snuff, then turns his attention to the coach and says it's coaching. Well excuse me but you said it was the player now your saying it's the coach. The question becomes which is it because IMHO it cannot be both...
Last edited by Brown to the Bone; 09/14/08 06:12 AM.
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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BTTB, I appreciate you taking the time to make that response. It was logical, it made sense.
But there's a part you're missing. If we don't get a certain result in a game, over the course of a season, over the course of a regime ... it is just not right to say it's the players' fault. They are really not here on their own accord ... they were picked to be here.
So what I'm hearing from you in a round about way is that it's the aptitude or the hard-headedness of the players that's the problem. I agree with you that it must be pretty far-fetched to believe they aren't being taught where to be. So if we follow that line of thinking, they can't execute on game day because they aren't smart enough to get it or they think their coaches are just dumb or they are scared ... too caught up in the moment ... too much adrenaline ... maybe it's completely different when you're not going against your own team ... there could be a myriad of reasons, I'm sure.
So I can take away that you must be leaning toward Savage as being the culprit ... in kind of a non-direct away. He's the one who picked the players who aren't smart enough, don't care, get too excited, etc., etc. ... right? He's the one that picked them. RAC is doing the best he can with those guys, and they just aren't getting it. That's what I'm hearing you say.
Ok, that's another side to it. I can buy it as an argument. Not sure I buy it as the truth, but I see where you are going with it.
The thing is all roads lead back to Savage or RAC. I don't care what the reason is, all roads lead to one of them two or maybe even both. That's the part that people just don't get. That is not an abstract idea. Savage picks the players, RAC coaches them. There is no gray area there.
The only gray area is time. Have they had enough? Maybe the only players left for Savage to pick were dumb, scared, hard-headed players. So that's all that RAC has to work with.
After four years, are you buying that?
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Base off what I have seen from PS he is pretty good at evaulating talent, RAC is pretty good at getting the most he can from that talent, but we still has players on this team that inspite of their desire and effort can't get it done. So I don't blame anyone, the GM does the best he can with the resources he has (money) the coach does the best he can with the resources he has (players), and the player does the best he can with the resources he has(raw talent). So truly who do you point the finger at, and at the same time be fair?
In a perfect world it would be easy to point the finger, but not this time.
If we fire PS and RAC will that make the Browns a better team?? To me you have got to fire them both. PS doesn't make decisions without input from RAC, and RAC can only work with what he has. If we lose a game because half the team is injured who's fault is that, and if we lose a player to injury that the team heavily invested in who's fault is that?? "Gods"???
Some one is not always to blame is the point. It is what it is soemtimes. I am far from happy but as long as I see those in charge working at getting this team better I can be patient a bit longer. I can support them in that effort as long as I feel I can trust them. And to that end I trust PS and I trust RAC. I believe in what they are trying to do, and I damned sure want to see both these guys have the chance to finish what they have started, and that means for me they get the full 5 years with my support all the way. We have fired countless HC and even a few GM's but the result has never been positive IMO, just more re-building, and more losing. I can hold my temper thru another year because I have faith in those in charge.
JMHO
BTTB
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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So I think there are 4 possible answers as to our current state ... even our current state is debateable, but let's say we get beat by Pittsburgh today ... and that is the current state ... Year 4 ... 0-2 start.
Is the reason not enough time to put a team together? Is it RAC? Is it Savage? Is it a combination of the two?
You are siding on the side of time. I hope you're right. But to me the time answer only makes sense if we see steady, continuous improvement ... I don't see that. I see the same defense over and over regardless of players ... I see the same mistakes.
So that keeps leading me back to Savage or RAC or both. First time GM, first time head coach ... maybe they are in over their heads.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Rish your way way to far ahead of yourself here, in many respects.
#1 We did just come off a 10-6 season, I don't know what you call that but I call that improvement. I don't care how easy a schedule it still was a 10-6 season, not bad, not great and certainly not good enough but it sure as hell was progress.
#2 ASSuming we do lose game 2 to Pitt that means we start the season at 0-2, it don't look good but then again in no instance that I can think of would a 0-2 start mean the end to any hope to a successful season.
#3 you along with many others are out to place blame for what 1 in season loss to this point. Seems way way to early to be getting out the hunting gear, coaches aren't even in season yet, and a lot can happen between now and the end of the season. lets just wait a bit then get out the hunting gear if we even need to get out the hunting gear.
BTTB
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Legend
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Did U fall on your head bro??? ...
I said a month ago we were better than Pitt ... I also said TODAY were better than Pitt .. between then and now we will be playing tonight minus ..
Rex Hadnot and D. Stallworth on O ...
A. Peek .. S. Jones and B. Poole on D ..
and josh cribbs .....
THATS HUGE .... I fully expect us to play better but were minus 5 key players ...
we could very well win this game ... but this is a much different team than it was 4 weeks ago ....
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Hadnot, Cribbs, and Poole are all starting.
LIbertatem Defendimus!!
2010 Dawgtalkers NCAA Bracket Challenge Champ!!
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http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3589122Robaire Smith may be out for the season BEREA, Ohio -- Cleveland Browns defensive end Robaire Smith sustained a potentially season-ending injury to his left Achilles tendon during Sunday night's loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers. AFC North ESPN.com's James Walker writes about all things AFC North in his division blog. • Blog network: NFL Nation Browns coach Romeo Crennel didn't provide specifics of Smith's injury but indicated the 6-foot-4, 310-pounder would be sidelined for an extended period. "He is not in the best of shape," Crennel said. "For a big man, an Achilles is a tough thing to deal with." The Browns, who fell to 0-2 with a 10-6 loss, are already playing without two key defensive players. Linebacker Antwan Peek is out for the season with a knee injury, and safety Sean Jones will be sidelined for several more weeks after undergoing arthroscopic knee surgery last week. Smith started all 16 games last season with the Browns, who signed him as a free agent in 2007. Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press
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