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Quote:
Such as...? I can't think of any in recent memory.
There are plenty of good kickers that leave their teams. Just this past offseason Josh Brown went from Seattle to St. Louis and Jason Elam went from Denver to Atlanta. Before last year Ryan Longwell went from Green Bay to Minnesota. And a couple years ago Vinatieri went to Indy
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Yeah, plenty of good kickers. But he said "better kickers" were let go because of salary concerns. Those guys 1) aren't better kickers, and 2) left their teams in free agency.
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Vinatieri has lost some accuracy in the last year, but he has been the best pressure kicker in NFL history. Josh Brown is a great kicker. Longwell and Elam are some of the best kickers in the NFL.
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Actually it is......all teams do that.
One of the top 5 K in the league is not gonna get competition thrown against him in camp.....they do it to keep his leg fresh.
Ya know I've seen this said so often it's taken as gospel. But I always questioned the logic. In this day and age just exactly what does a kicker do in the preseason that would tire his leg out? Is it the long walk through the cafeteria line at lunch each day?
Phil has been here since the beginning. I don't think he's going anywhere. But if he were to push this contract thing I could see Savage showing a lot more interest in that training camp fodder.
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In your opinion, maybe. Regardless, none of them were cut from their teams.
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Yes none of them were cut, however, they were not retained because of salary concerns. Pretty sure that's what eo was talking about.
The only kicker I can remember getting cut is Vanderjagt, that's because he self destructed part way through one year.
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just clicking...
Phil Dawson is the 4th most accurate kicker in NFL history.
I think we are undervaluing Phil Dawson JUST a little when we compare him to kickers who left their teams via free agency in recent years. Viniateri (sp?) is the only kicker in the NFL I would consider to be in the same league as Dawson that is an active player.
Phil Dawson is the 4th most accurate kicker in NFL history. And the guy has done it playing in Cleveland, which is not home to a kicker friendly stadium.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Legend
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I say we just cut him. We can put anyone out there.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Practice Squad
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I say we just cut him. We can put anyone out there.
Anger + sarcasm = dangerous combination 
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Legend
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The Bears just signed Gould to a contact worth 14 mil with a 4.25 signing bonus.
for a guy that has yet to kick a 50 yard field goal.
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j/c Since Phil scored EVERY POINT WE HAD against Pitt. and kept it to a four point deficit with those scores, I'd say give him whatever he wants!!!!! 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
Actually it is......all teams do that.
One of the top 5 K in the league is not gonna get competition thrown against him in camp.....they do it to keep his leg fresh.
Ya know I've seen this said so often it's taken as gospel. But I always questioned the logic. In this day and age just exactly what does a kicker do in the preseason that would tire his leg out? Is it the long walk through the cafeteria line at lunch each day?
Phil has been here since the beginning. I don't think he's going anywhere. But if he were to push this contract thing I could see Savage showing a lot more interest in that training camp fodder.
What does a kicker do in the preseason that tires his leg out??? Ummmmm....kick a lot more than any other time of the year?
Have you ever read about QBs getting dead arms from throwing so much in camp? Same thing goes for K......what do you think happens to their legs when they kick day after day after day for weeks as opposed to the number of kicks they attempt during the season??
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My point is, with a kicker, why would he kick so much that it tires out his leg? Jesus, can't he pace himself? Is it that tough?
I'm past 50 and I do quite a bit of walking and ladder climbing in my job. In fact once I get to work I don't usually sit down until lunch and then again when I'm on my way home. I've been working roughly 35 years. Not once has one of my bosses hired part time help to keep me "fresh".
I think they can figure out a way to lessen the "strain" on Phil without bringing in a couple of kickers for camp every year. They're bringing in the kickers to get data on what's out there. Which they will use if Phil pushes too hard for a new contract, IMO.
See, that wasn't so hard to understand was it?
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See, that wasn't so hard to understand was it?
It is for one of us apparently.... 
Every team does this.....it isn't unique to the Browns.
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Legend
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It is also done to expedite practice. With one kicker, you can only work on one component of the kicking game at a time v being able to work a few different areas at once on the multiple practice fields teams use..
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Sorry, I forgot that you are the fount from which all knowledge springs........
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So you refuse to see the logic and realize that all teams do this?
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You kill me.......Of course, I realize all teams do this. My point is that it really isn't all that necessary other than to gather data on what other kicking talent is out there. This knowledge will be used if Phil pushes too hard for a new contract that the FO doesn't want to do. Which is kinda what this thread is about, I believe. Hell, they sent Charlie packing like a $2 whore when they figured he was used up. Why wouldn't they do that to Phil? But if you wanna argue about training camp kickers I can do that for a little while longer. 
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You said you failed to see the logic in it and that you didn't understand what a K did to tire his leg out.
I tried to enlighten you since you exhibited an ignorance in regard to the topic. I'm not arguing at all......
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Legend
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Is this because Phil knows this is all the Browns will be doing this year ?
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Let me put it this way Otto, do Major League starting Pitchers go out and throw hard every day in spring training? Do they throw 50 or 100 pitches every day during the regular season? Hell NO..... It's the same way for a kicker. They can't go out and kick 100 field goals, or kickoffs every day, just like a Cliff Lee can't go out and fire up 100 fastballs a day.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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They can't go out and kick 100 field goals, or kickoffs every day
And they don't. Unless they're doing it under cover of darkness. C'mon, you guys don't have to make things up to support your point. Do you?
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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I tried to enlighten you since you exhibited an ignorance in regard to the topic. Sure I did.......... 
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I disagree.
I get tired of guys signing a contract, then wanting a new one. You signed it, you honor it. If you perform well enough, then you'll be rewarded at the end of it, or have it redone later on down the line.
JMO.
While I'd agree with the sentiment, the way the league is structured now means that many players (the percentage.....I have no idea, but I'd say a random guess is half..??) won't see the end of their contracts. Either they outperform the existing one and get a new deal, or they underperform and get renogotiated or cut. It's actually THE most fair way to do contracts of any sports league currently in existence.
So......The question becomes whether or not Dawson is worth it. If Dawson rakes in top-third money, he's probably fairly compensated for his contributions. He's a very solid kicker in this league that has one blemish on his scouting report, which is that for a high-percentage kicker, he gets shaky outside the 40. That's the only difference between Phil and guys like Graham and Stover. Having said that, he's been more reliable than your average kicker in this league, especially when you consider he kicks outdoors most of the time. (Any questions about his leg strength on kickoffs are totally unfounded  )
One thing I'd like to throw out here is that nobody said he's "unhappy" or a "malcontent."  What's REALLY going on here is that his agent has done nothing more than laid the groundwork for a new contract by letting Savage know he'd like him to consider it. There are no comments saying he's mad, or that he wants one right this moment. Dawson's agent knows that this isn't the time. However, there are provisions to extend contracts this year so that it helps us in the future. That scenario notwithstanding (I haven't kept up with the mechanisms of the collective bargaining agreement this past year), he's pitched the idea to Savage so that IF Dawson has a great year, Opie won't be broadsided by a contract request.
Basically, this isn't anything to get prickly about. If Dawson has a so-so year, he doesn't sniff a new contract. If he has a great year, they've opened the lines of communication so that there are no suprises to the organization. Just keep in mind that kickers in this league are somewhat interchangable. The difference between a Gramatica and a Dawson aren't that significant. Honestly, how many kickers have held out? That tells you how unlikely it is that this would become any kind of distraction or problem.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
I tried to enlighten you since you exhibited an ignorance in regard to the topic.
Sure I did..........
You said you questioned the logic. Please break it down for me since I seemed to have a gross misunderstanding of your statements.......
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Quote:
They can't go out and kick 100 field goals, or kickoffs every day
And they don't. Unless they're doing it under cover of darkness. C'mon, you guys don't have to make things up to support your point. Do you?
Nobody made up anything.....you made inane comments as you often do.
Re-read the thread and tell us where I made anything up.
Please.
Thanks.
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What's REALLY going on here is that his agent has done nothing more than laid the groundwork for a new contract by letting Savage know he'd like him to consider it.
Exactly.
It doesn't mean they are threatening anything, nor does it mean they signed a bad deal a few years ago.
Markets shift, and when they do players who are considered near the top of their position then seek to get a adjustment.
Really, you are right...players usually get cut or rework the deal before deals expire unlike other sports leagues, so it really does boil down to do we want and value his services or not??
He is probably seeking something closer to the Gould deal....so a few mil in bonus and a few hundred thousand a year over a 2-3 year extension is what they would seek...the 2-3 mil bonus being the key element.
I would value Dawson as a top tier kicker in the league worthy of a deal more in line with the current rates.
I would also say his leg has gotten stronger over the last couple of years....he doesn't have a problem giving it a chance from 55 assuming no wind in the face.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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They can't go out and kick 100 field goals, or kickoffs every day
And they don't. Unless they're doing it under cover of darkness. C'mon, you guys don't have to make things up to support your point. Do you?
I don't believe I was talking to you in this instance. However, if you'd like to talk more about the virtues of less kicking versus more kicking in training camp please feel free to PM me.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Quote:
I don't believe I was talking to you in this instance. However, if you'd like to talk more about the virtues of less kicking versus more kicking in training camp please feel free to PM me.
1. The only people that have replied to you here are GM and myself. You stated "you guys" so how could you not have been talking to me in this instance? You act as if I have butted into a private conversation.
2. Why discuss something in PM that is ALREADY openly being discussed here?
3. It's okay to admit you were wrong, you don't have to act like this.
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My comments, Phil deserves to be near the top in compensation for kickers, he's been good for a long time.
Letting him walk for what amounts to a modest amount of money would be stupid. I've seen plenty of teams let good kickers go because they thought they could save money with somebody else or they got infatuated with some new strong leg kid in camp.. and then they regretted the heck out of it later... good kickers are NOT a dime a dozen, like other positions, there are only a handful that have proven to be really good and consistent, we have one and we should keep him. Kickers will win or lose you a couple games a year....
Phil is a veteran, he should know what his leg can handle in camp, preseason and midweek..
I think the main reasons teams bring in other kickers to camp, even if they already have a good one is to 1. Not make it appear that the kicker is entitled to his position while everybody else has to fight for theirs, 2. Get a read on a couple other guys in case your good kicker gets hurt and you need to find one real quick who at least has some experience with your snapper and holder, and 3. Because you never know, you MIGHT find that diamond in the rough kicker that is even better than the good kicker you have...
yebat' Putin
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phil's 48 yarder vs buffalo.  
President - Fort Collins Browns Backers
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One COULD also say he choked in the Oakland game last year, costing the Browns a playoff spot (especialy in light of the Tennessee tiebreaker,...)
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Quote:
One COULD also say he choked in the Oakland game last year, costing the Browns a playoff spot (especialy in light of the Tennessee tiebreaker,...)
He choked by not blocking the guy who ran right up the middle and blocked the kick??
Your right,cut his ass!!
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Administrator
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As can be seen, this thread is discombobulated for some reason; it's not sliding onto the next threaded page. It will be locked to prevent a potential jamming of the forum.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns veteran kicker Dawson wants
new contract
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