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But surely not Eleven ROTFLMAO's in a row good.  By damn, I've hit some kind of jackpot!
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well, Diam... I guess noone can accuse you of ever being a "fence-sitter," now can they? 
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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LOL  This whole thread cracks me up. What a waste of energy arguing about the QB's. DA is in until the BQ era begins, period. I hate it, but Phil said it clearly, something to the effect of - once they change they won't change back. I think were stuck with DA for the year.
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The simple fact is that NONE of us, myself included, could be a special teams coach in the NFL, let alone make the decisions some are claiming are so clear.
I don't believe that for one second. I know savage , romeo, and parcells didn't play in the nfl. I'm not even sure belichick, who is considered the greatest coach of all time, ever played in the nfl. So playing in the nfl isn't required to be a coach or a general manager in the nfl. I do think you need some sort of background, either playing in high school, or any level at the collegiate level.
I think there are plenty of smart people on this board, and fans in general. If you find a guy that's relatively young,intelligent, has played some, and is willing to imerse himself in the game on a full time basis, I think you could find someone out of the group that would be very successful. I'm sorry, but I'm not in awe of coaches, even the best like bill. they often get the title "genius," when in reality they're just good at their job, like A LOT of people in this country. they just happen to work in the public eye, and in a business that is coveted by most americans.
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Quote:
LOL
This whole thread cracks me up. What a waste of energy arguing about the QB's. DA is in until the BQ era begins, period.
I hate it, but Phil said it clearly, something to the effect of - once they change they won't change back.
I think were stuck with DA for the year.
The forest for the tree's..........That's it, Cold. As has been laid out in previous threads, once you make the move to Quinn, the move is permament. That's one of the factors involved in giving Anderson this much slack.
Another thing worth repeating.......It's Anderson's job until we're out of the playoff hunt. At 2-4, we have a slim chance. At 2-5, we have none. Anderson plays poorly at Jacksonville and we lose, those who are backing Quinn get their wish. Anderson plays well and wins, he keeps his job. So what if we lose and he doesn't play so badly? It'll still be time to get Quinn in the game, which means some kind of scenario where he starts getting playing time, if not the start.
This isn't difficult to understand. The choice is whether or not people are willing to accept it.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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There is one more scenario that no one has mentioned yet......
999. Quinn isn't looking good in practice, and they've soured on him some
I don't think that's the case, but it is a possible scenario.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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First, I don't read that he said anything about having to play in order to be a coach. Secondly, I'd be curious as to where these young, talented, intelligent fans in general would aquire the technical football knowledge required to be a coach at that level. The NFL isn't Madden or Fantasy Football. The only place one is going to learn what is needed is to be constantly involved with a team in one capacity or another, and work his way up through the ranks until he has enough knowledge and experience to break into the NFL. That certainly doesn't describe anyone on this board and that is what CoachB said, "...NONE of us, myself included, could be a special teams coach in the NFL." It didn't sound to me either like he meant you couldn't do it even if you tried, if you spent your entire life from the time you are a young, talented, intelligent fan and immersed in it and pursued it as your chosen career you would never succeed in your wildest dreams. Of course you could. He can correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me that he was talking about right now, currently, NONE of us, himself included, could be a special teams coach in the NFL. It sounded to me like a way of saying no matter how much we think we know, we don't know jack-crap when it comes right down to the complexities of the job at hand for a speical teams coach let alone a head coach or general manager. Why I chose to address that I don't even know. 
#gmstrong
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This isn't difficult to understand. The choice is whether or not people are willing to accept it.
Whats this accepting poop? WE are going to get what they give us.
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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You see, it's easy to say there is a plan but refuse to devulge it. Because no matter the outcome, without any details, they can say they were right all along. It's the perfect catch 22.
One doesn't need to have the plan laid out in front of them if common sense is applied.
However, setting that aside, you've been TOLD what part of the plan is. In fact, Savage has given the answers at various times.
You've simply chosen not to listen.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Whats this accepting poop? WE are going to get what they give us.
The accepting poop is that we either accept it and try to understand the whys and wherefores of it or we don't accept it and leave ourselves as disgruntled fans pissing and moaning because it wasn't done the way we wanted.
I know a lot about poop. 
#gmstrong
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Anderson plays poorly at Jacksonville and we lose, those who are backing Quinn get their wish. Anderson plays well and wins, he keeps his job. So what if we lose and he doesn't play so badly? It'll still be time to get Quinn in the game, which means some kind of scenario where he starts getting playing time, if not the start.
You heard it here first. I made this up myself so I want proper credit, kudos and maybe one of those fine jackets the new HOF'ers used to get on here: If we lose to the Jags...Quinn starts game 9 vs. the Donks. That becomes part of the plan that is carved in solid rock.
He may get some time vs. the Rats, maybe not, but he will start game 9 if we lose to Jacksonville.
If I'm wrong in my prediction, I'm totally willing to never hear another word about it.
#gmstrong
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j/c
Not only do I think Brady could come in and stink up the joint, I would say that it's more than likely.
I do not like Anderson because he is terribly inconsistent. Unfortunately, I think we can expect the same thing in Brady's first, oh, 10 starts or so.
you had a good run Hank.
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I don't expect a Giant killer either. I'm not even calling for him to start as my willingness to allow the whole thing to play out is on my side. But I'm imagining it's looking like he starts vs. the Donks if we lose to the Jags.
If and when he does start he'll have his growing pains.
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what CoachB said, "...NONE of us, myself included, could be a special teams coach in the NFL."
I apologize if this is taken out of context but I've had CoachB on ***You are ignoring this user*** for a couple weeks now.
Fortunately I am a part of a world that is teeming with people with true unique intellect. One of the reasons I continue (sometimes the reasons fade) to read first and post second on this board is that there are people here with real, thought-out, cogent opinions.
I know for sure that many of the best posters here could very easily coach NFL special teams. It's not difficult. Certainly not technically difficult. It's acutally quite easy from a schematic point of view.
There are some that enjoy the self aggrandizement. I choose to ignore it.
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Someday we'll chat about the importance of field position 
No need. I am aware how that can impact a game.
Three yards isn't that much to make, you are on their side of the field, and not every time you went for it would you find yourself on the 49.
I just believe you would score more points by turning a few field goals into TD's, and wouldn't give up that many more points than you would give up anyway to offset the point gain of going for it more.
But in the spirit of your post, sure, you are still going to opt to kick every now and then....especially with a lead..
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I fully realize that decisions can't be made by rabid fans.....especially those such as us who are hungrier than most out there.... Quote:
None of this is simple. Especially the decision regarding the future franchise QB. That's not to say they should postpone that decision due to indecision. But we all heard Savage say that we would postpone that decision as long as possible and he said that last season!
So now here we are at the cusp of that decision, nearing the end of all this QB management and we find ourselves getting antsy and wanting a decision now! I said in another thread that I believe that most people who give up and fail do so shortly before they would have been successful. We are nearly half-way into this season. This QB thing has been going on for nearly a year-and-a-half. It is almost over. As Toad said, patience and faith. It will get done and both Savage and RAC will be staking their jobs on their decision. Because if they get that wrong it will set this team back for the next 5-7 years. And before you argue with that; think deeply about it.
It is painfully obvious to me that what we see with DA is not going to get any better. This team could easily be 4-2 right now.....and I also realize that this team could also be 2-4 or 0-7 for that matter with either QB.....but I like to go with what my eyes tell me. At times that is hard to do, because the heart gets in the way......but my eyes clearly tell me that DA needs to be #2 on this team. I don't yet know that BQ will do better, but I sure as hell know that he can't do worse.
We need to find out.....and soon. If not, we may be ruining an option for success the longer he sits......and not just this season either.
Someone said that it hasn't been mentioned that perhaps BQ sucks in practice and perhaps this is delaying the trigger.......that HAS in fact been mentioned as a possibility, and I would opine that if that were the case it wouldn't be a secret, so I don't think that is the case.
It's obvious to my tired eyes as well that the other players are growing weary of DA being in there and screwing the monkey as he has.....and my GREATEST fear is that we see "Good DA" this week and it delays the inevitable yet another week or longer.
He should have been pulled already......his play has revealed this to my eyes.
And that's what I go on.
I will sit and hope and pray and cheer this Sunday as always....if DA trots out, I will pull for him. If he gets yanked I will pull for BQ. If they are replaced by Ken Freakin Dorsey I will cheer for him. (and pray harder)
Team first.
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You're right, there is a plan. There is flexibility in the plan. That doesn't mean that Phil and RAC are going to change the plan to placate some of the fans and the media. They aren't going to risk long term success to stop some fans that think they know more than them from whining. If that sounds harsh, I'm sorrry, but it's the truth. If they were going to run the team based on the fans' choices, there's no point in having people that actually know what they're doing running the team. They could just rotate the job around to the season ticket holders. Of course, some people think they know so much about the game they would have the team in the Super Bowl. The simple fact is that NONE of us, myself included, could be a special teams coach in the NFL, let alone make the decisions some are claiming are so clear.
Coach, I agree with everything you said. They have a plan, and they believe in themselves and what they are doing that they will stick to the plan and not be influenced by outside sources. Sounds like a good sound leadership philosophy to me.
That doesn't mean the plan is a good one nor does it mean it will work nor does it mean they can execute it. I really wish these guys were not first time everythings ... I wish we had some historic data to draw from that says these guys have gotten the job done before. I wish they had proven themselves.
Because until they do, it's going to be a guess as to how this turns out. We don't know if these guys can turn this thing around and neither do they. They've never done anything like this before. We don't know if they are handling this QB situation correctly and neither do they. Again, this is the first time in their lives they've been presented with this problem. Think about the first time you've ever done anything. Do you get it right the first time? Do you have confidence in what you are doing? Are there doubts? Of course there are.
There are people here who are believing blindly, people who either believe or don't believe but do understand, and people who absolutely don't believe. The second group, Toad's group, is where I'm trying to get to and is where everyone should probably be at this point. The problem is we have nothing to draw from. This isn't Parcells, Belicheck/Pioli, Holmgren, etc. What do we have to hold onto that says these guys are leading us down the right road? Nothing. We have nothing to base it on.
I like that these guys are sticking to their guns because they must believe in what they are doing. That is the first step. The people that are executing have got believe. But they've got nothing to base their confidence on either. Savage has obviously been consulting with other people around the league about "staying the course" because he said as much. These guys just might be in over their head.
If they are more qualified than the rest of us is completely irrelevant.
The jury is still out.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Rish, I understand your point and respect that. I, along with a few others, aren't necessarily saying that Savage and RAC are the end al be all. However, I have a problem with people making opinoins as facts when they don't know what they are talking about. The perfect example is Brownsfanz. He has proclaimed the plain "failed" when he doesn't even know what the plan is. Just because some of us point out how wrong the piling on is doesn't mean we are blind followers. Now, Heldawg stated that bing a special teams coach wouldn't be that hard in the NFL. That just proves my point. People that say that have never seen a NFL playbook yet can state how easy a job would be. I have been coaching since 1992 and am now at the colege level. With each level, ther is almost an overwhelming difference in the game. For someone to claim that they can go from siting on the couch watching games to coaching any position in the NFL shows that there is no reason to debate with them any further. They just don't get it. ddubia stated my feeling exactly. I never said you have to play in the NFL to be a good coach. I was stating that you it is impossible to go from a fan in the stands to being a successful coach. This isn't Hollywod and no one here is named Eddie. Even with 18 years coaching experience, I am not qualified to do the job, let alone someone that has never called a play or coached a position.
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I'm not really sure who you are talking to or about there. The first paragraph sounds like you are talking about Savage and RAC. The second one sounds like you are talking about some fans who say there is a plan. I'll address them both as if you were talking to both.
I was talking about board members who keep talking about a "plan".
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First the team:
There has to be a plan. No one would venture into this without one. The team cannot just incoherently bumble game to game having no idea what they are trying to accomplish. That would be absurd. So yes, there is a plan.
They cannot and will not devulge their plan. Making the plan public would not only alert the fans to what's going on but put undue stress and pressure on the QB's. They don't need to know that plan. They only need to carry out their duties. So no, they are not going to devulge it to us.
I have NO doubt in my mind that this FO and coaching staff "had a plan" going into this season. I feel it would be bad business on their part to devulge that plan. So this really has/had nothing to do with the FO or the coaching staff.
I do not however think any business plan is "set in stone". A business must have contingiouncy plans in place that will change or adapt to varying conditions based on differing circumstances.
That's the main place I differ with those on here where they say "I know the plan". I guess in actuality, I'm saying that I believe RAC and Phil are smarter than to stick with a plan that is not coming to fruition. That I believe they have certain contingency plans that may be implemented as the circumstances around them dictate such.
Because IMO, no business continues to follow Plan A when it's obvious that plan A is not working as hoped. Do I believe they would go to Plan B out of desperation or a knee jerk reaction? Most certainly not.
But I believe there is your main plan, plan A. But I also feel you have plan B, plan C and plan D at your disposal depending on changing circumstances. And I believe Phil has demonstrated such.
Rucker is a prime example. I believe Plan A was Winslow. Let's face it, Winslow is a great talent and he sells a LOT of tickets and merchandice. So it would have been nice for plan A to work out.
But Phil is a smart guy. He understands the knee problems Winslow has faced. He knows the volitale nature of Winslow. He knows that Rosenhouse will demand a kings ransom in a new contract.
Thus the drafting of Rucker. A value from scouting reports and very similar to KW2 in his style of play. Thus, Plan B. So maybe I'm reading it wrong. But from everything I've seen, people seem to indicate there is "plan A" and everything else be damned. Where as I do not believe that a smart businessman would follow such a path because of what I outlined above if that plan goes awrye
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Now me:
I know there is a plan as explained above. I don't know exactly what it is. How could I. How could anyone not entrenched in the organization. I'm positive the players don't even know. So asking for the plan from anyone but Savage and RAC will get nothing in return. I don't fear being wrong so that's not the reason I don't carve my idea of what the plan will be into solid granite. I don't care about being right either. So I'm not making a stance one way or the other. It's hard to make a solid stand when you don't know what's going on.
I guess my questions to you would be;
1. Do you believe there is only one plan set in stone?
2. Do you believe they have contingeny plans in place that may implemented depending on changing factors?
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Even so, I've tried to lay out several possibilities that don't include calling Savage and RAC clueless. We don't like how the season has gone so far so we say the plan is at fault. We see only one alternative and that is to play Quinn starting right now.
And I too do not think they're clueless. And I believe saying there is only one plan that they would simply refuse to differ from depending on the circumstances would tend to lean toward them being clueless far more than what I'm suggesting.
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Savage and RAC don't like how the season has gone so far either. But it's likely they don't think their plan is at fault. Unlike us, they see more than one alternative. We talk like they don't know to, or haven't adjusted their plan as it's progressed. How could we know that if we don't know the plan? It may have already gone through a couple of changes/adjustments since the season started. None of us know.
That is really not what I intended to suggest. Actually I believe they have plan B, plan C and plan D at the very least. And it may involve many changes. And to me. that's very smart.
I mean you must base a plan on how you believe players will or won't perform. Do you believe they thought that we would see the type of QB play from DA that we have seen when they implemented their plan A? If your personnel are not executing your plan, then wouldn't that indicate that you must, at some point, implement plan B?
You see, a plan only works if you get the production needed for it to succeed and it is executed properly. So I am not suggesting that their original plan was a bad one. Actually, if executed properly, may in fact have been a VERY good plan! But I do believe the execution of it has failed thus far. And I do not blame Savage or RAC because the players seem unable to execute it.
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The easy thing to do is to is to make clever statements that add no possible insight whatsoever into what is going on. The harder thing is to try and understand what it is they are doing or what they are trying to accomplish. My mind changes everyday as to what I think they might be thinking.
And I believe that you are right. My "clever statements" were in regards to those posters who IMO, seem to indicate that there is only "one plan". Those who indicate that come hell or high water, that RAC and Phil are so stubborn and clueless, that under NO conditions or circumstances, that they would consider any contingency plans that may alter that plan. While I believe that they are smart enough that they had contingency plans all along that may alter the plan depending on changing conditions to one degree or another.
To me, those suggesting that they would in no way make adjustments in that plan depending on varying circumstances, would indicate a much worse scenario than what I'm suggesting.
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Right now I'm thinking Quinn starts game 9 if DA doesn't play like he did vs. the Giants in the next two games. He might not even get two games for all I know.
Which is a very plausible thought. But do you think that was the plan from day 1? I really don't. I believe they were hoping DA would play well enough to let Quinn sit the entire season if possible. However, plan A didn't play out the way they had hoped, and what you are suggesting would be Plan B IMO.
Which is the point I was trying to make.
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I don't like the idea of a mediocre DA talking us throught the rest of the season either. Neither do I think that will happen. Why? Because of the plan. What plan? I don't know.
See that's another point I was trying to make.
Your "plan" evolves in this business. Nobody just goes 16 games in the NFL with no consideration of altering that plan as conditions dictate. I'm not saying you simply throw your plan out the window. But that the plan gets tweaked here and there as conditions dictate that they should.
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I just know there is one and so long as people believe there isn't they will also believe that Savage and RAC have no clue at all as to what they are trying to do.
Nah.
On this we agree 100%.
Now let me clarify my intention of the post you responded to...........
There are many who seem to indicate that there was a plan "set in stone". That no matter the play on the field, that plan will not be deviated from no matter what. IMO, that is flawed logic.
And those posters give no details. Their description is so vague that no matter when or if Quinn comes in, they will swear that that was the exact same plan we enterted the season with. And that they were 100% right all along.
And I do believe that is a crazy notion. I do not believe that smart business people do not adjust their plans. As I stated above, I believe "the plan" at the beginning of the season was in hopes DA would play well enough to let Quinn sit this year. Which I think was a great plan.
But unless DA has some kind of spititual awakenning............
...............that they will deviate from that plan.
So my post above was in regards to posters on this board and what I fully expect from them no matter how the plan unfolds.
While in reality IMO, any business plan has contingency plans. And that if they go to Quinn at any point in this season, that was not the original plan.
So I hope you have a better grasp of my intentions in regards to this.
Wheather you agree with it or not.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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You're right, there is a plan. There is flexibility in the plan.
That in and of itself was something that clears up quite a bit.
Thanks for clearing that part of the debate up.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Rish, I understand your point and respect that. I, along with a few others, aren't necessarily saying that Savage and RAC are the end al be all. However, I have a problem with people making opinoins as facts when they don't know what they are talking about. The perfect example is Brownsfanz. He has proclaimed the plain "failed" when he doesn't even know what the plan is. Just because some of us point out how wrong the piling on is doesn't mean we are blind followers.
Allow me to play devil's advocate here for a second. People like Brownsfanz may not know what the plan is, but what they do know is that we're in Year 4 of it and we're 2-4 (possibly soon to be 2-5) with underachieving stars, no discipline on the field and internal turmoil. Whatever the plan is, there's no possible way to consider it a success at this point in time either. We also know that Savage has said this is a 5 year plan, meaning we have one season to follow this "plan" to real success or else it truly has failed.
Regardless of whether people know what the plan is or not, can you really fault them for calling it a failure thus far given that it's so close to its end and we're so far away from where we need to be?
We're... we're good?
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There are many who seem to indicate that there was a plan "set in stone". That no matter the play on the field, that plan will not be deviated from no matter what. IMO, that is flawed logic.
Pit, maybe you can help me here. If you'd show me a couple of examples of what you're describing, maybe it'd help me understand the point you're trying to make, because frankly, I haven't seen one comment about a plan being "set in stone." So if I've missed something, I'd like to be made aware of it......
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I guess my questions to you would be;
1. Do you believe there is only one plan set in stone?
2. Do you believe they have contingeny plans in place that may implemented depending on changing factors?
When you ask me questions I feel obliged to answer.
1. No I don't. I believe they have several backups. I believe they've rigorously gone over every possible scenario they could think of and have a plan to deal with it as well. Just like Savage talked about the draft: You look at every pick and every possible outcome as to who may take them at what slot. You look at every trade up/down possibility specifically in regard to individual teams, who they may pick or what they may require in a trade. Due dilligence. By the time the draft starts there is no scenario they are not prepared with a plan to deal with. I believe they do the same with all important decisions that take time to develop such as this one we are talking about.
2. I may have already answered that above but can elaborate in saying that we don't know the plan so we couldn't possibly know whether or not they have already adjusted their plans based on the changing factors as they've played out. To us it looks like one linear thing going on whereas DA starts and DA starts and DA starts, but behind the scenes I'd bet there have been adjustments in thinking and tweaking of the plan since game one. It just doesn't look like it to us because we only see the one thing.
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But from everything I've seen, people seem to indicate there is "plan A" and everything else be damned.
Not from me. Hell, I've changed my own plan several times since we've been talking about it and have posted as such. In reality, you can take plan A, all the contingency plans, plus the tweaking and changing due to situations and circumstances as they come up and lump them all into one description as the Master Plan as it includes all of the above.
We see DA still starting so it looks like they're stuck on stupid and that is the evidence. But they're not and this is not over yet.
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My "clever statements" were in regards to...
My comment on that wasn't aimed at you. We all like to have fun at times. My comment was aimed at those who seem to have nothing else to offer but a few "cute" comments.
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Right now I'm thinking Quinn starts game 9 if DA doesn't play like he did vs. the Giants in the next two games. He might not even get two games for all I know.
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Which is a very plausible thought. But do you think that was the plan from day 1? I really don't. I believe they were hoping DA would play well enough to let Quinn sit the entire season if possible. However, plan A didn't play out the way they had hoped, and what you are suggesting would be Plan B IMO.
Which is the point I was trying to make.
I think it's highly possible it was considered in the beginning. Why wouldn't it be? If we think, really think and consider, of all the possible scenarios heading into the season, we'd have a plan for each of those possibilities. DA doing well, DA playing mediocre, DA outright sucking, the W/L record at each point and what were the contributing factors in each.
Then, when all the injuries occured in the preseason, which I'm sure no one considered it could ever have been as bad as it was, that kicked in another round of thinking planing revisions three weeks before the opening game. Now we are where we are at this stage and us fans are wondering what will happen.
They may well have planned that if DA himself was playing mediocre, up and down performances and it looked like it wasn't really improving then turn it over to Quinn for the second half of the season starting with game 9. Each QB gets a half season and take it from there. If Quinn struggles as DA did then he still gets the same opportunity to improve without worrying about getting yanked in favor of DA. At the end of the season they'd find themselves at a crossroads of trying to decide between two QB's who struggled. My guess is that they'd go with BQ and his mad skills hoping he'd improve in whatever area he struggled with.
I honestly don't know. It would be great to know just what they are looking at and how they, as professional football people, evaluate the position. But when you start thinking about all the possibilities in situations and circumstances from the eyes of a fan, it is incomprehensible that they hadn't thought of the vast majority of scenarios before this season even started.
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So I hope you have a better grasp of my intentions in regards to this.
I do. (and that doesn't mean I'm willing to marry you yet )
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Pit, maybe you can help me here. If you'd show me a couple of examples of what you're describing, maybe it'd help me understand the point you're trying to make, because frankly, I haven't seen one comment about a plan being "set in stone." So if I've missed something, I'd like to be made aware of it......
The term "a plan" is a rather open ended statement Toad. And I've been trying to clear up if it is a singular plan with no room for change or if there are variables involved.
That's about all. In seeing it posted, until a short time ago, that part of "the plan" was not revealed.
You have people in life who have plans, and no matter how badly those plans are going, they just keep.............. 
Then there are those willing to adjust there plans depending on varying conditions. I certainly hope the latter of the two is applicable here.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I do. (and that doesn't mean I'm willing to marry you yet)
For some reason I really don't have a problem with that......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Pit, maybe you can help me here. If you'd show me a couple of examples of what you're describing, maybe it'd help me understand the point you're trying to make, because frankly, I haven't seen one comment about a plan being "set in stone." So if I've missed something, I'd like to be made aware of it......
The term "a plan" is a rather open ended statement Toad. And I've been trying to clear up if it is a singular plan with no room for change or if there are variables involved.
That's about all. In seeing it posted, until a short time ago, that part of "the plan" was not revealed.
You have people in life who have plans, and no matter how badly those plans are going, they just keep..............
Then there are those willing to adjust there plans depending on varying conditions. I certainly hope the latter of the two is applicable here.
I'm trying to absorb that answer, but I can't realistically see any plan anywhere that is "set in stone" which is why I asked for the examples you referenced.
If you're curious as to whether or not the plan the Browns FO has laid out is set in stone, it's not. It never was. I laid out the plan to you. How could I know what the plan is? Because Savage has told us what parts of the plan are at various times over the last two years. Common sense can fill in the blanks from there.
That's why I said you simply were choosing not to see it
Example: QB situation. Frye was a bum, so we drafted Quinn to be the man. Set in stone: No matter what Anderson did last year, the job belonged to Quinn. Flexible: Anderson showed enough ability to warrant getting a shot to keep the job, hence his contract.
(now keep following the bouncing ball here )
Set in stone: Anderson's new contract is a true long-term deal with lots of guaranteed years and guaranteed money. Flexible: Contract is designed to reward him for a good year, as well as giving him the chance to earn more money by having another good year. If he doesn't, he can be traded or released from the contract without big financial penalties and Quinn gets his shot.
Forward to this year.....
Anderson earned the chance to start, so he's handed the job. Set in stone: Anderson keeps the job the entire year no matter what. Flexible: Anderson can only go so long without producing before Quinn gets his shot. Because of injuries and bad play by various offensive players, Anderson doesn't get all the blame, and gets a stay of execution.
We're now to this point in time. Set in stone says Anderson keeps the job no matter what. Flexible says if he lays an egg this week, Quinn stands a great chance of getting into the action.
So.......no, nothing is set in stone. No team in the NFL has a plan that's set in stone.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I think that post should be set in stone. You've been making a lot of sense lately. Started drinking again?
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Shoot, I never stopped
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Another game, another good preformance. Anyone wanna bet he tanks again next week? 
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Good performance? he had a good half and then went back to the old DA, in the 4th quarter they barely let him throw the ball. If thier so afraid of him screwing up that they would rather keep punting it back to them in the 4th quaterter instead of throwing on 3rd and 5, he shouldn't be in there. 14/27 passing, he has only been over 60% completion % once this whole year.
Also he co0st us the game last week with that retarded 2nd and 1 QB sneak with 1 min. left, a High School QB knows better than that.
Doesn't BQ have to play 50% of the snaps this year to get a nice bonus, if this is the case, i could see him getting playing time the 2nd half of game 9. lol
DA is Jeff George, great arm, not great accuracy and not smart.
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Good performance? he had a good half and then went back to the old DA
Yeah, that 53-yarder to Steptoe sure was a horrid throw 
Oh, I should apologize, that sack and fumble was his fault as well. My GOD, shouldn't he have grown eyes in the back of his helmet by now?
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in the 4th quarter they barely let him throw the ball. If thier so afraid of him screwing up that they would rather keep punting it back to them in the 4th quaterter instead of throwing on 3rd and 5, he shouldn't be in there.
OOOHhhhhhhhhh.........I see now! We tried to control the clock by running the ball, so that must mean they think Anderson is a bum. I mean, afterall, they don't believe in him so they won't let him throw!
Your reply is a crock.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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so you deny that the coaching staff has limited Andersons pass attempts? BTW your defending the #32 ranked passer in the league, and even if you give DA 10 of his dropped balls back he only makes 54% competion percentage (31st) http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics...2&year=2008That's right stats don't matter, but isn't being 3-4 a stat too?
Last edited by ibleedorange; 10/27/08 03:21 AM.
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I deny they limited his pass attempts based on the reason you are trying to pedal.
Fact: You're trying to sell people that the coaches don't trust Anderson, so they limit his throws.
Fact: Teams who have leads going into the fourth quarter run the ball more than they do to start the game.
To refresh yours and everyone elses memories, here's EXACTLY what you said:Quote:
If thier so afraid of him screwing up that they would rather keep punting it back to them in the 4th quaterter instead of throwing on 3rd and 5, he shouldn't be in there.
Your words. Not mine. That's what I deny. If you're going to ask me that question, ask it all the way, in which case it SHOULD look like this:
"So you deny that the coaching staff has limited Andersons pass attempts because they are afraid of him screwing up?"
Yes, I refute it and challenge you to prove it.
Now man, if you'd care to rephrase the question.........
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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they don't trust him. I'll just have to accept the fact that you are right because you typed in white letters this time, see above edited post. this year he is one of the worst QB's in the NFL, his stats back it up, including our 3-4 record.
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If you wish to blame being 3-4 on Anderson, that's your perogative. I tend to side with the organization on this one, which is to say Anderson had been one factor in an offensive equation that simply wasn't on the same page due to injuries which led to lack of cohesion. Since they started getting a little playing time together, we've gone 3-1, and Anderson has been improving. To that tune, his rating over that span is 85.77. Not bad.
Nevermind that our defense STILL stinks.
I'm still on the fence with Anderson, but there were very legitimate reasons why he struggled to begin the year. He deserved the chance to get in sync with the offense. He has started to, and has earned the chance to continue to start.
Look, Anderson is never going to be a high-percentage guy. That's never been his game, and never will be. If you or anyone else is expecting that, they your sights are set too high. His game, when it's right, is going to be that of a big-play QB who either completes the pass or throws it away. Today was the perfect example of that. He hit several big plays, and didn't throw any picks. I'm sure someone will try and say he got lucky with the penalty, but I saw the play, and believe he knew he had a free play. Most QB's do that. Calling three straight pass plays at the 1 when he was getting harrassed down there wasn't smart on Chud's part.
Bah...I'm digressing.
Bottom line: Anderson came into yet another game where his job was on the line, and he performed. He's our starting QB going into next week, so NO, he's not on the hot-seat . That isn't to say he's playing exceedingly well. While he hasn't been throwing INT's, he has 7 fumbles this year and one in each of the last 5 games. That's worrisome, ergo why I say I'm still on the fence with him. Still, he's been part of the reason why we're winning. There's no way the organization can think about sitting him down now, not when we're still alive for a playoff push.
Think about this: We know that there are two wildcard teams coming out of the AFC. As of today, there are only 4 teams in the AFC who aren't division leaders who have a better record than we do. What does that mean? If we beat the Rats, which is a distinct possibility, we're dead in the mix of this thing at 4-4.
Nobody can tell me now is the time to throw Quinn in there 
I'll even take this a step further regarding the very nature of this thread.....if he's harrassed against the Rats and doesn't play well, does that mean he's benched? I tend to think not since the Rats can get after a QB. And despite how it may look, we could STILL be in this thing at 3-5.........
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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You are doing a stand up job representing DA.
I enjoy reading your posts. I wish everyone backed up their positions like you.
You're wrong but at least you make an assertion then try to back it up!
Good on ya!
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A greater back-handed compliment I've never received
I don't represent DA as much as I represent patience. I'd go into that philosophy but I've done it before in the Winslow thread. Nobody wants to see those mental gymnastics from me again, suffice it to say until I see Anderson reach his ceiling, he's the guy for this team at the present moment.
Strong words coming from a guy who's still on the fence, no?
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Well from that I get that you love DA but you love options but you love Quinn and you love what comes next. Don't approach any female I know anytime soon.
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What I do love is our situation. There are a ton of teams in the league that would love to have our "Plan B."
How many available females do you know? I do love me some female's
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Derek Anderson.......Still on the
hot seat?
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