DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The decision, Savage, Randy? Good or Bad.

Agreed Toad,

Honesty behind closed doors is honourable but to expect transparency from the Cleveland Browns (or any other company in any field out there for that matter) is laughable, "The Company Line" is seldom the be all end all and quite frankly, they haven't got to tell us anything.

Don't know what you guys do for a living but i've had to peddle the "Company Line" to Clients often....and it's seldom accurate....that doesn't make me dis-honest as a person, thats how business is and i bet you those same clients have spun me a few in their time also (in fact i know it so )

To hold the Browns to the same values and morals that you expect from your kids/family/friends just ain't happening folks...business is business after all....seperate the two for your own piece of mind people.

Since I didn't see your comments I guess I can't be offended or amused by them. But since I'm basically a happy guy I guess I'll just be amused by anyone that would apparently spend time telling me he doesn't have a dog in this fight then spend time defending that dog while rippin' someone who didn't particularly like said dog.

By the way, your pup is on the bench where he belongs......

Oh yeah, I forgot.....just exactly what kind of fan am I? Since you seem to know me so well I'd be interested in your take on that. Feel free to PM me unless you'd like to "school" me in front of all the popular kids........

i'm okay with the move. although i am shocked that it happened.

when we were losing at halftime to a bad cincinnati team, in which we didn't get into the endzone until the fourth quarter, i figured we'd put quinn in at that point. we didn't.

wherever the move came from, i think it's the right thing to do.

we're 3-5, and the way things look, we're going to have to go 7-1, maybe 6-2 to make the playoffs, and if anyone hasn't yet noticed, we still have games in pittsburgh, in tennessee, and in philadelphia.

it's not happening this year. we blew it a week ago.

anderson's stats back up this move, last in the league in qb rating, and pretty much last in the league in completion percentage.

not to mention he was handed ample opportunities to win games in washington, versus pittsburgh, and last week against baltimore.

i know it's not all him, our defense took a giant dump, and braylon couldn't catch a roll of 100's, but it starts at the top, and he ain't gettin it done.

i'm not going to get into who made the decision, or if our coach really has complete control of the team, because none of us can say either way with any kind of confidence, i'm just glad that this team is finally willing to give the kid a chance, i don't see the big deal in it. i don't see how it helps/hurts this team.

we're 3-5 and we need to figure out what we have with our qb situation.

and for those saying that other parts of this team are to blame, if we had better linebackers sitting on the bench, they would be taking the place of your wimbleys and mcginests, and davis', but we don't, but those guys know with the upcoming draft, and FA, that their days as starters could be numbered, maybe even their days as members of this football team (with the exception of willie mcginest, who we all know is gone after this year)

i know that if braylon doesn't drop that pass, or maybe our defense would have stepped up, and we beat baltimore, we're not having this conversation.

however, that's not what happened. derek anderson threw the game away, just like he did against pittsburgh, just like he did against washington, and just like he did last year against cincinnatti. it's not like we are throwing in a kid on the bench to replace a franchise quarterback. anderson never solified the job, in my eyes.

J/C

This whole thread is just maddening to me. The ones who wanted Brady to play are now upset because of how the move came. The ones who wanted DA to stay seem to think it doesn't matter as long as it was done.

Why does everything have to be beatened to death around here?

My opinion is that DA played himself out of the job. I don't care about how he looked to some or the stats of the past three games. I've watched every game so far, and IMO he was like a time bomb ready to go off. How many here can actually say with a straight face they were confident that he was going to make a play when needed? I had growm to have no confidence in him at all.

As for Crennnel, whetther he made the call or someone up stairs, it had to be done. The season is almost gone, the QB is as inconsistent as can be, and I believe the other players on the O felt this too. I also think DA didn't control the huddle. I read where Winslow and BE were always talking in the huddle. I don't believe DA has the personality to try and stiffle their input. I believe this hurt DA's confidence. I see Quinn as somebody with enough confidence in himself that he will command atttention in the huddle. His ego could easuily be on par with BE and K2, I can't believe DA's was or ever could be.

Either way the move has been made. If the coach was thinking about the move and the boys upstairs edged him along, I see no problem with that.

If you owned this team or was the GM and you saw something that you felt could help the team, would you not say something? For God's sake, reading this thread I feel like many weren't actually watching what has been happening this year. The change needed made, just because it didn't happen the way many of you wanted, doesn't make it any better or worse of a move.

The move was inevitable, and everyone knows this, why nitpick the decision so much?

Sorry, it's not my style to pm people to rip on them or others. I usually don't go after people on the board as well.

I still don't think you bothered reading what I posted, so it kinda looks like you make no sense.

Yes, I did defend DA and will continue to do so until he does something not to warrant it.

I have also done it for Quinn, and I will continue to do it. I don't believe in unfairly ripping into any players on my team. When I feel it is warranted, I am critical. When I feel the need to defend someone, I'll do the same.

DA had a horrible second half in the 1st Raven's game, followed by three draedful quarters in Cincy. I said he should have been benched for good at that point, but I was talked off the ledfe by my buddy Diam. After the 1st half of the Washington game I had seen enough for good. I don't blame him for this weeks loss. He was setup to fail in the 4th with awful play calling.

He is now on the bench, a place I think he should be. Quinn is now the starter and deserves every opportunity from the fans to try and be the franchise type QB everyone wants. It won't happen overnight, and may not happen for a couple of years if at all. I think we would be doing our team a huge diservice if we called for his head within the 1st year or so. Don't you?

I agree. A front office, confident in their talent evaluation would have handled this situation in the prior offseason.

At the time I was in favor of not matching a RFA deal that Andserson might get. If we did not match we would recieve a 1st and a 3rd rounder. If Anderson was not tendered an offer he could have been on the team for $2M instead of the $8M plus two year option deal at $24M total that he received.

Then if he beat Quinn in the preseason, played well in 08 we could either have extended the contract and traded Quinn or franchised him in 09 thus keeping his rights.

The FO was roundly lauded by people here for their tact. I was one of the few in vocal opposition.

Not many thought it through...that if DA played poorly...we would ultimately be left with nothing.

And so it will be.

We will not be paying the bonus and DA will gone without compensation.

j/c

Quinn's debut flashy

Quarterback tested quickly. Crennel maintains decision is solely his

By Marla Ridenour
Beacon Journal sports writer

Published on Wednesday, Nov 05, 2008

BEREA: Brady Quinn's first play of his first practice as the Browns' starting quarterback Tuesday seemed as orchestrated as the machinations some believe surrounded it.

Opening as usual with the ''Flash'' package, the call was a direct snap to Joshua Cribbs, who threw it to Quinn lined up in the shotgun. Supposedly not as strong-armed as Derek Anderson, Quinn lofted a bomb to Braylon Edwards, who had to accelerate to get to the ball in the end zone.

''It's [bleeping] warmups, Brady,'' Edwards moaned.

Browns coach Romeo Crennel insisted that his decision to bench Anderson on Monday afternoon was entirely his, based on the team's 3-5 record, its offensive ranking of 28th in the league and its offensive production of 17.8 points per game (16.3 without returns for touchdowns).

''It's my decision,'' Crennel insisted. ''I informed the organization what I was thinking; they told me it was my decision and they would back whatever decision I made. We've been talking about this for a while now. Usually I try to be pretty thorough about what I do evaluating things. I felt like it was time.

''I felt like we needed a different dynamic on the offense. The play was inconsistent, and as our record indicates we're an inconsistent football team. I've told you all along the supporting cast impacts Derek's play, but he's the quarterback, and along with that position comes added responsibility and added scrutiny.''

It was hard to believe the Browns aren't looking to make a big splash in Thursday night's game against the visiting Denver Broncos (4-4) with the debut of Quinn, the former Notre Dame golden boy. It is their third of five prime-time games this year.

Browns linebacker and co-captain Willie McGinest has known Crennel since 1994 and is in his 10th season playing for him. He seemed skeptical that the loyal Crennel would yank the quarterback who went 10-5 and led the Browns to the cusp of the playoffs last season.

''Nobody saw it coming,'' McGinest said. ''I don't think it's one person why we're losing. When we lose, we lose as a team.''

Asked if this went against the nature of the Crennel he knew, McGinest's wry smile and raised eyebrows seemed to give away his feelings.

''There you go. You figure out where it's coming from then. Your guess is better than mine,'' McGinest said.

Even former San Francisco 49ers and Detroit Lions coach Steve Mariucci, now an analyst for the NFL Network, said his first reaction when he heard the news was that Anderson must be injured.

''Often times you'll see these changes made with a bye week where a new quarterback can practice for several days, a couple weeks,'' Mariucci said. ''He's only really going to have a couple days of good work.

''Maybe part of their thinking was, 'These other young quarterbacks, Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco, are doing a heckuva job, maybe our guy Brady Quinn can do something just like this.'

''Playing a young quarterback is a crapshoot. You never know what you're going to get. You certainly don't want to throw him to the wolves on a bad team.''


Crennel didn't seem sure if the change would last for the rest of the season. Quinn said he was ''not looking at this more than past this week.''

''I don't know that anything is ever permanent,'' Crennel said. ''We'll play the games and see how it plays out. Knock wood, I hope the guy doesn't fall on his face. If he falls on his face, you've got to do something because I can't go play quarterback.''

Even if those terms were presented to him, Anderson sounded extremely down. The Browns had won three of their past four before Sunday's loss to the Baltimore Ravens, and he had thrown six touchdown passes and one interception in that stretch.

''Obviously, I played very poorly in the first couple weeks. I'll be the first person to tell you guys that,'' Anderson said. ''But I felt like I've been doing some good things. We were starting to come around.''

Anderson said he couldn't stop thinking Monday night about plays the Browns had missed on this season.

''Yeah. You think about that all the time. Obviously, it's tough getting your job taken away from you,'' Anderson said. ''It means a lot to me. I put a lot of effort into it, and that's probably the hardest thing for me.''

Edwards, who has dropped an NFL-high 13 passes this season, wouldn't acknowledge playing a part in Anderson's benching. What could have been a 77-yard touchdown pass slipped through his hands Sunday with the score tied at 27 against the Ravens.

''I wish I could've caught that pass. Should I have caught that pass? Yes. Have I thought about it? Yes,'' Edwards said. ''But if I catch that pass, is D.A. still the starter? I mean, what kind of question is that?''

Quinn tried to be diplomatic and said he felt for Anderson.

''Obviously I feel a ton for him,'' Quinn said. ''When he told me about it, I was upset for him. I think a lot of people see this as a sport and a business, but there's definitely relationships that extend way off the field. He's like family to me, so it's tough to see him go through that and see him treated the way he was here.''

Coming off Sunday's loss, the Browns have only two real days of practice, which made the move curious to more observers than Mariucci. After Thursday, the team has 10 days before its visit to Buffalo for a Monday night game Nov. 17.

''The short week had nothing to do with it. It was just time, so I did it and we're going forward,'' Crennel said. ''We're not throwing in the towel, we're not giving up on the season. We're going to beat Denver.''

link

From the know-it-all article...

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Crennel's comment that he was not really considering a change hours before the move to Quinn tells you all you need to know about the beginning of the Brady era.

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It tells you that he wanted to talk to DA and Quinn, and the rest of the players, before he discussed it in the media.

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I would have given Anderson two or three more starts to attempt to cement what type of player he is and what he can do when the chips are down.

Instead, the Browns will turn to Quinn now, and don't think for a second that the fact that Thursday's game is at home and televised nationally didn't have a lot to do with it. The Browns are an inherently insecure organization and this gives them an opportunity to try to showcase their future and now present the face of the franchise against a Champ Bailey-less Denver defense that has not shown it can slow down anybody.

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So, Mr. Tucker would have given Anderson the next few home games to prove he is what he is, and then, introduce Quinn on the road to tougher teams. Yeah, make this guy the coach!

Actually, his points make a case for the opposite. For one, we've already seen what kind of player Anderson is when the chips are down. And I like that player. But he's so inconsistant it's tough to count on him for that. In addition, "showcasing" Quinn vs. the Donks against a "defense that has not shown it can slow down anybody" just might be putting him in a position to succeed. Stupid ass team. Why would that do that other than as a PR move?


Yet another stupid take on this. I don't mind hearing some negative press. It seems to be the only kind we can get unless it's the offseason and we're not doing anything. But some of these stories should never be written.

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RAC is a puppet head coach. That's my OPINION. He had his hand-picked coaches yanked out from under him by Savage when RAC wouldn't take care of it himself. He forced Savage's hand, and has had Savage's fist up his backside ever since, calling many of these shots. That's his own fault because he isn't good enough to do the job. Because Savage has had to go there before, Savage is going there again. Simply put, RAC is incompetent. Yeah, that's a strong word, but it's no-less true. From his selections to coaches and players to his pathetic game-time coaching to his ham-fisted comments this past week, he's clearly in over his head, even if this fanbase doesn't want to accept it. He's a great guy with great character, but he's losing the team right before our eyes.

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Since we are all looking from the outside in, There is a certain logic to your argument. But, if you are saying that Savage made the call - then Savage is tearing the team apart. The players now know who calls the shots. And if RAC is being over-ruled on personnel, then that will create a US vs Savage locker room and then how do you get certain coaches here( like Cowher) who do not like the GM meddling in the locker room.

No way did Savage make this call. OT is a great poster, but he's kinda adding his own history to how things have gone down in the past and drawn conclusions on this situation from that errant past. Savage did not force RAC's hand with Mo, it was a decision they came to together. RAC and Savage have also worked on the QB situation together. They laid out plans and scenarios going into the season and adjusted them as the season wore on. They wer on the same page and worked this out in tandem. That's the way these things SHOULD work. You draft a pick and you develop a plan and work TOGETHER to develop the plan into success. I have YET to hear that RAC has ever been forced into a decision from above that he did not agree with when it comes to these types of things. The next time that Savage tells RAC who to start and who to bench will be the first time.

Sorry Toad, but if my head coach does come out and say that "we're going to beat Denver," instead of saying "we're going to try what we can to beat Denver," I'm going to agree with the man.

It's a beatable team. That's what you're out there to do. Win the game. I sat and watched the interview and thought nothing of it. He didn't guarantee anything. He didn't run his mouth or make a big deal of it at all. Like that is going to make the Broncos all of a sudden a better team, and their injuries are going to miraculously go away. Every coach should have that attitude and mindset. If they don't, they need to find another profession.

Kick butt Brady.

Sorry, it's not my style to pm people to rip on them or others. I usually don't go after people on the board as well.

Yet you felt the need to go after me because I disagreed with your opinion. OK

I still don't think you bothered reading what I posted, so it kinda looks like you make no sense.

Why is it that every time someone disagrees with guys like you the next post always calls into question their reading ability (code words for intelligence)? Is it not possible that I read it, disagreed with it and then said so?

Yes, I did defend DA and will continue to do so until he does something not to warrant it.

Hello!! This is what I disagreed with. Have you watched any games this year? Say he didn't lose the game on his own, that's fine. Don't tell me he he's played well overall. He is what he is......good one minute, bad the next. If you're willing to settle for that be my guest. I'm tired of watching that crap.

He is now on the bench, a place I think he should be.

OK, so what is your problem with me? I said the same thing. Did you read my post......

I'm still waiting for you to tell me what kind of fan I am. Wait, I'll tell you.......I'm the kind of fan that buys season tickets, goes to the games, cheers for the Browns when I'm there and buys way too much Browns stuff at inflated prices. I also am getting tired of settling for a mediocre product on the field. The time for excuses is over. Win now or find someone who can.

So RAC going all bravado by saying "WE'RE GOING TO BEAT THE BRONCOS!" is going to do that?

"Gee, Hon, did you just hear RAC?! WE'RE GOING TO BEAT THE DONKS! LET'S GO BUY TICKETS!"

Sorry, Attack, that has absolutely nothing to do with why he said what he said.

Sorry Toad but I wasn't talking about that line..I really don't care that he said they were going to beat the Broncs..
I'm talking about the lying ..

When we got Dilfer and drafted Frye, he told us that "every position is up for grabs." We ALL knew it was Dilfer's job.

That was a lie.

When he told us that Anderson was our QB "right now" he knew that Quinn was going to take over.


I don't really consider the Dillpickle stuff a lie..you know Frye wasn't gonna be the starter..they said they wanted Dillpickle to tutor him..so I had no problem with that.
And even you should have taken the DA comment with a grain a salt..
"RIGHT NOW" ..means as I speak..he never said DA is the starter for the next game..even the way he said it made me think that choice wasn't going to last long..
Whenever he uses that phrase it means that someone is about to be replaced..
These little examples sound more like sour grapes..than actually finding a situation where you can really say he lied..

Toad - You've been burning up the keyboard over this. Keep it up!

I'm going to try to put a "glass half full" spin on this... But, before I do, are you happy with this decision? (Is the glass half full or half empty?)

I might guess that you are. If RAC and Savage are "putting all of their chips in on a gamble", then they have the potential of losing big time from this switch. Won't they be graded on the team's record at the end of the season, no matter who starts? 6-10 is 6-10, and it likely means a head will roll.

In fact, all of us should be concerned about an 8-8 finish - not a 6-10 finish. If the team had continued with the hot-and-cold performance from Anderson and ended the season at 8-8, would we be able to say "can't wait until next season"??? We could inch along and be on the cusp of playoff contention until the final game, and RAC/Savage could make arguments to stay on board. At 6-10, it's pretty easy to make the decision to make changes at the top.

Another way I am thinking of this - wouldn't you be happy if they continue to make bad decisions if it can hasten their exit? See, most of the time I don't necessarily disagree with you. I think you could be right, but if we don't allow management to take the rope to hang themselves, we make it a lot harder to assess the outcomes. I prefer to give them a little support so that in the end I can cut them loose without question.

I don't mean to be putting words in you mouth - I will leave that to Pit (he he). I agree - what RAC said about beating Denver is odd - but there have been many things he has said and done that have been odd (time out management, play challenges, and coin flips, just to name a few). Could the actions of the past week finally be the straw that breaks the camel's back? I guess we will know at the end of the season...

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Yet you felt the need to go after me because I disagreed with your opinion. OK

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No Otto ... he went after U because you act like a smug little cocky bleep on here ALMOST ALL THE TIME ...... thats why he went after U ...

people go after me cause I'm a rude, abrasive a-hole .. and thats OK I expect it because i DESERVE IT .... guess U can dish it out but can't take it .. U wanna take your shots and then whine like a little girl when fired back at .. my guess is your next response will include your now famous double standard whine ....

U reap what U sew Dude ... and your posts reek of a smug, cocky sarcastic little man on here .. so expect it in kind .. i know I do ... ... difference is .. when I get my medicine I don't whine about it ..

and before U go there .. yes I like P .. hes a good man ... I also like U ... weather U believe it or not ... i love your sarcastic way and the way U can demean people withoug ever getting nasty with them ... U also make me *LOL* alot and thats a good thing ..... ... so forget playing the "bud" card .. won't work here ..

and Ya .. i know U could care less if I like U or not ... Touche on that one ..

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I agree. A front office, confident in their talent evaluation would have handled this situation in the prior offseason.

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They did handle it .. and they handled it the PROPER WAY ... and I agreed with U .. I have never been anythng but a DA will never be more than a below avg. starter or a great back up in the league guy .. NEVER EVER WAIVERED FROM THAT ..... not even at the bye last year ...

but guess what .. the FO did the right thing LAST YEAR cause it allowed the situation to play out ... and that is what was best and still is best for this Org. ...

funny part is .. U always ream for doing exactly what you are doing now ... gotta love hypocrites .. *LOL* ..

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At the time I was in favor of not matching a RFA deal that Andserson might get. If we did not match we would recieve a 1st and a 3rd rounder. If Anderson was not tendered an offer he could have been on the team for $2M instead of the $8M plus two year option deal at $24M total that he received.

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1st of all NO ONE WAS GOING TO GIVE HIM A TENDER ... NO ONE ... not a shot in hell ... and U and I and anyone with a clue knows that ...

the proof is in the fact that they even signed with us before testing the waters LEGALLY .. believe me his agent all ready knew the temp out there and it was COLD AS HELL ....

so now our options are two fold ....

1. give him the one year deal and risk losing him or paying him HUGE AMOUNTS OF $$$ if by some chance he does blow up ..

2. give him big money this year and lock him up for 2 more years IN CASE HE DOES BLOW UP ....

all we did was PROTECT OURSELVES .... not such a dumb thing to do ...

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The FO was roundly lauded by people here for their tact. I was one of the few in vocal opposition.

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And I was one of the guys saying they did a good job EVEN THOUGH I NEVER THOUGHT MUCH OF DA .... why diod i say they did a good job .. becasue even though I DISAGREED WITH IT .... IT MADE SENSE ...

it really is that simple ....

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Not many thought it through...that if DA played poorly...we would ultimately be left with nothing.

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I thought it through as did many others including Opie and RAC .. and they could have went two ways .. THEY COVERED THERE ASSES for the best case scenario .. U disagreed with it so now there stupid (imagine that .. U taking pot shots at the org. in hind sight ... its all U do anymore .. ) ..

bash me all U want for patting myself on the back ... well i only do it to defend myself ... no ones ripping U here yet u feel the need to do it ... and when a move makes sense (witch this one did) even if i donlt agree with it .. I NEVER EVER RIP IT ... cause even though I don't agree with it or like it ... I UNDERSTAND IT ... guess u can't do that ..

I think I just figured it out ... I am so used to being right I know how to handle it initially ... U on the other hand ... seeing as how your so good at thinking things through .. you figure it out ...

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And so it will be.

We will not be paying the bonus and DA will gone without compensation.

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wanna bet???? if u lose I'll stay at your place for two weeks and use your surf boards .... if I lose ... name it ...

*LOL* ... I usually donlt respond to your drivel .. but this one is just to good ...

U start off saying U don't want to re-write history .... and then U proceed to do it .. priceless ... *LOL* .. your bueatiful dude ..

Getting back on topic ... I am GETTING EXCITED ALL READY ... can't wait for tonights game ....

its going to be so cool to see him under center for that first snap ...

WOOF WOOF WOOF .....

man ... I can't wait ...

BRADY BRADY BRADY!!!!!!

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Getting back on topic ... I am GETTING EXCITED ALL READY ... can't wait for tonights game ..

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Really?

I think you need a cold one...you've been busy!

If I want any crap from you, I'll squeeze your head. (That's always been one of my favorites, hope you liked it).

You know, your opinion used to be worth reading even through the all the crappy grammar and atrocious spelling.

Now it's just so much white noise. In fact at times it's so laughable that's it's almost pathetic.

Go back to slandering Peen. It's what you're best at.

I'm thrilled and cautiously optimistic going into tonight.

I just got done reading something about Roethlisberger not willing to put in extra work in the film room, and he's "not very bright." He holds onto the ball and sometimes telegraphs his throws, yet his athleticism has made up for it. All the talent in the world but not the brains, and the results are pretty good all things considered.

We DO know this much about Quinn: He's bright, Charlie Weis said in the PD today (and our buddy Diam has told us) he can read coverages. He's worked hard to prepare for this night. He's shown enough in college to make us encouraged, but college is a completely different ballgame.

I hope he works out and becomes the guy we hope he can be. I really don't want to have to retire another jersey.

Honestly, I hope he's as mentally gifted as everyone claims he is, because the ability to read coverages, prepare for opposing defenses and throw the ball accurately is most of what it takes to be a good QB in the league.

If U can't see the O needs a spark your blind ... I'm on your side that the timing stinks on this one in that DA did not play BAD against the Rats ..

but Dude .. this O has been in the doldrums in 3 of the last 5 games .. i wonlt even bring uo the first 3 .. SOMETHING NEEDS TO CHANGE TO GIVE IT A SPARK ..... and this is the only way to do that ...

I mean come on man .. U wanna say we have a legite shot at the playoffs if we stay status quo on O ... playing LETHARGIC WEEK AFTER WEEK .... or do u just expect the spark to light on its own in week 9?? .. OK ... thats intelligent ...

The team needs a spark dude .... and i see no other way of getting one ..

and I find it funny that were 3 - 5 and if we lose this game there will BE HELL TO PAY ... your usually real logical .. not so much this time ... *LOL* ....

ya ... the switch to BQ must have really killed us seeing as how well DA was playing ...

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I just got done reading something about Roethlisberger not willing to put in extra work in the film room, and he's "not very bright." He holds onto the ball and sometimes telegraphs his throws, yet his athleticism has made up for it. All the talent in the world but not the brains, and the results are pretty good all things considered.

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If you put any faith into this your nuts... We see the results and they are nothing like what was written.

If you are attempting to compare the two in any way (I'm not sure you are) you would be wrong IMO. Quinn does not possess the physical abilities of Ben. The two can't be compared to each other even if Quinn is far smarter(he probably is).

If you are just trying to say Quinn can be as good as Ben, I would agree, and say he can even be better scince we really don't know anything at this point.