DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The decision, Savage, Randy? Good or Bad.

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Our new era begins tonight and I pray that we don't get our panties in a bunch before Quinn has a chance to prove himself.

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don't worry about anyones panties but your own ... u can't CONTROL THERES ... U can only control yours ... the dolts will be dolts ... your not gonna turn them into colts ... *L* ...

no matter what happens tonight .. don't put to much stock into it .. ITS ONE GAME ... if he lights it up .. it means NOTHING ... its one game ... if he stinks .. it means NOTHING ... its one game ...

as my good friend banger says ...

RELAX AND ENJOY ... I know I'm gonna ...

otto ... your sig fits U perfectly bro .... and u prove it here all the time ...

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don't worry about anyones panties but your own ...

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I prefer boxers..Unless of course we are talking about role play night...

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u can't CONTROL THERES

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no matter what happens tonight .. don't put to much stock into it .. ITS ONE GAME ... if he lights it up .. it means NOTHING ... its one game ... if he stinks .. it means NOTHING ... its one game ...

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RELAX AND ENJOY ... I know I'm gonna ...

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I'm already starting to kick myself...You see I had a chance to go to the game but I told my buddy that I wasn't going at all this year, whether with him or by taking his tickets. Should have kept my mouth shut..

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The sad thing is, I absolutely knew it was coming. You guys are WAY too predictable.

And, you aren't aware of who sets who up.

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Please let me savor our small victories even if they aren't really victories at all.

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It's things like the Winslow thing and this that give those who can't stand Crennel all the ammo they need to pile on...

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This isn't directed at you D in D, but more a general statement.

I believe there are posters just as myself in regards to this situation. And whoever this includes in that regard are free to chime in.

I am a supporter of Savage. A staunch supporter as a matter of fact! RAC? I'd say the jury is still out by some degree. But I'm not on the "fire RAC now or at the end of the season bandwagon" either.

But the fact of the matter is, we are all human and none of us are perfect. Including me!



...............and including Phil and RAC.



There is the problem I see rear its ugly head on this board often times. There are two extremes. One side excuses and rationalse every mistake they make. The other side overreacts and says "fire them now".

I stand fimly in the middle. I see many of the good things they do. And when I see mistakes they make, I recognise those as well. Without doing that, a person has no objectivity what so ever IMO. This is how you can gauge progress or the lack there of. Without that objectivity, you're clueless!

And here's the thing about being firmly in the middle. You get lumped into one of these very extremists points of views because you point out the obvious. And then the excuse machine starts running rampant to defend RAC and Savage. No matter how stupid one of their mistakes are!

Anybody who feels that ANY coach or GM bats 1000 is not being objective. Those who judge them solely based on their mistakes without looking at their improvements are single minded.

But I wish the excuse machine would simply realise one basic concept. Not everyone who points out their faults or weaknesses are asking for their firing. They are human and as a direct result will make some mistakes. ( Despite the excuse machines rationalisations )



So if everyone could simply admit they're human beings and not God's, the board would be better off. Just because they make an occasional mistake does not constitute firing. I don't care WHO your coach or GM is, as with all humans, you would STILL have mistakes along the way.

So not everyone who realises they're human wants them fired. We just comprehend they are human and will make mistakes.

IMO- The coin flipping incident of last year was foolish and looked horrible from a PR standpoint. Many ranted and raved otherwise. That's fine.

But my point was more let's see how he handles this type of situation moving forward. Will he learn from it? Will we see more of the same?

I am very happy to report that there was a vast improvement in how he handled things this pre season. It did not turn into a three ring circus. It was handled much more professionaly. Thus, progress. He learned from that experience IMO

What more can you ask from someone?

So no, I'm not "sold on RAC". He is a first time HC with much yet to prove. But I have seen progress in some areas that will not simply permit me to kick him to the curb.

So just because "some posters" point out mistakes, doesn't always mean we're on a witch hunt or calling for anybodies jobs. We are the one's who understand nobody is perfect and are willing to point it out.

HUGE difference!

Now if people can just quit trying to justify every damn thing they do like they're supreme beings, I think things would be just fine!

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Now, I may be grapevining this, but I'm pretty sure we are in complete agreement on the "plans and scenarios" you spoke of. You had some heated debates with Pit, and I'm with you 100%. Everything I've ever been taught would make me cringe if we were doing it any other way. Just wanted to get that out there

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It's like you've seen the light.

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I believe it's far more that I'm taking more time and effort in conveying my message.

I still think the coin toss was a joke. No change there.



But I think he learned and grew from it. I was probably so upset at the time that I feel pretty sure that I was not conveying that I was hoping to see progress going forward it that regard.

Which was my bad.

I'm trying to be a little more detailed in my thoughts so they are not so easily taken out of context and attempting to show more "both sides of the coin" so to speak.

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It was funny to me at the time and still is..
U had Mr Inept QB #1 ..and Mr.future Inept QB # 2.. pick your poision..take your medicine..
I tried to tell you not to take that so seriously..

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Which innept qb did you propose starting Dr.?





The point was the lack of decision making involved in that process. Most who were here understand that much at least.

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Toad - You've been burning up the keyboard over this. Keep it up!

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I'm confident that precious-few others would share that sentiment

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I'm going to try to put a "glass half full" spin on this... But, before I do, are you happy with this decision? (Is the glass half full or half empty?)

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I can understand the decision. What I don't agree with is the timing of it. It's my opinion it should have happened after the first month when Anderson was truly playing poorly, or after this week. But not now. The glass is neither half-full nor half-empty, because on one hand they've done what they could to try and help Quinn succeed, but on the other, they've taken a big gamble, as you've alluded to.

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Won't they be graded on the team's record at the end of the season, no matter who starts? 6-10 is 6-10, and it likely means a head will roll.

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I still feel that they won't be judged by their win/loss record because of our schedule and all the injuries. Furthermore, by starting Quinn I believe it gives RAC more slack. Who really expects a rookie QB to come in and do a whole bunch on a consistent basis? It's not like Quinn will get to play our defense twice a year like Flacco. (Just remember the stance RAC is taking with Quinn. It'll be interesting to see if they play the "we started a rookie QB" card at the end of the year if things go south). So in that regard, they are giving themselves an excuse, even if they are currently saying they expect him to give the offense a spark.

And yes people, I know Quinn isn't a true rookie Save the semantics for the idiots. He missed training camp last year and hasn't taken a meaningful NFL snap yet. He's the closest thing to a rookie without being one.

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Another way I am thinking of this - wouldn't you be happy if they continue to make bad decisions if it can hasten their exit? See, most of the time I don't necessarily disagree with you. I think you could be right, but if we don't allow management to take the rope to hang themselves, we make it a lot harder to assess the outcomes. I prefer to give them a little support so that in the end I can cut them loose without question.

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Hehehe.....Clearly, I'd rather they make good decisions I've made up my mind about RAC. I don't need to see any more. Savage is a polarizing guy, as his candor, while refreshing, is also a deteriment. He has good decisions mixed with bad ones. As a result, I'm on the fence with him.

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Could the actions of the past week finally be the straw that breaks the camel's back? I guess we will know at the end of the season...

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Without a doubt they are, assuming the results are negative. If they are positive, it's a gamble that will buy him time, though the curious nature of the decisions will always make people go "WTF is RAC thinking?!"

It's my opinion that RAC is in hot water, not because of our record, but because he can be judged solely on the moves he's made. Will that mean Savage cuts him loose at the end of the year? It's too early to say, because we don't know how this thing is going to play out. Now do I believe Savage is in hot water? No, I don't. There's very little chance he'd be dismissed because he didn't pick RAC and he didn't pick RAC's coaches. His mistakes don't outweigh the positives to this point.

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Toad - You've been burning up the keyboard over this. Keep it up!


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I'm confident that precious-few others would share that sentiment

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Oh No .. almost everyone would agree with that sentiment ... it hasn't been your finest stuff ... but u sure as all hell been burning it up .. it smells pretty bad .. but no doubt your burning it ..

visited Hel lately ....

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If U can't see the O needs a spark your blind ... I'm on your side that the timing stinks on this one in that DA did not play BAD against the Rats ..

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I find your timing of the usage of the word "blind" to be ironic

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I mean come on man .. U wanna say we have a legite shot at the playoffs if we stay status quo on O ... playing LETHARGIC WEEK AFTER WEEK .... or do u just expect the spark to light on its own in week 9?? .. OK ... thats intelligent ...

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I dunno......maybe it's you that said we have a legit shot at the playoffs, because I know I haven't said that.

What I've SAID is that we have a very slim shot at the playoffs, and that it's my opinion that Anderson gives us a better chance than Quinn right now, simply because of his experience. My belief stems from how he's played over the last month. Furthermore, it's ALWAYS been my stance that the moment we're out of playoff contention, we need to bench Anderson and start Quinn.

I've also said that it's been a team effort to get us to this point, and it'll take a team effort to bring us out of where we're at. Changing the QB isn't going to fix the teams problems. It's simply a grasp in the dark that reeks of desperation.

As I've said before, I understand doing what they can to stack the deck in Quinn's favor by putting him under the big lights, at home, against a creampuff defense. My problem is that this move means they expect he can do something Anderson can't, and I call that a rediculous thought. Anderson has faced nothing but tough defenses for the past month, and would clearly have a much easier time tonight. But instead of making the percentage move designed to give us the best shot at the playoffs, they are instead switching to Quinn because of the timing of this game.

So why don't I like this.......The upside doesn't outweigh the downside. If Quinn wins, great! But will one start with one practice make the difference going into Buffalo? Hardly. If Quinn fails, not only will it be perceived that we threw him in too early, it's also going to drive several nails into RAC's coffin, and despite what may be perceived as popular theory, I'm not interested in losing games just to get RAC fired. I want to win games, and throwing Quinn into his first NFL start with one practice as the starter under his belt just isn't smart football

As you say bro, the offense needs a spark. But is Quinn going to make Edwards catch the ball? Will he make Steptoe or Sanders into Jurevicius? Will he make the Donks defense stay as honest as they would against Anderson? RAC is gambling that their pathetic defense won't be able to stop us, and I call it a foolish gamble.

I'm going to the sportsbar so I can watch the game tonight, and I'll be wearing my Browns gear and rooting for Quinn while challenging any Donks fan who steps up to my 6'2 220 pound frame. I can be damned ugly and intimidating when I choose to be and'll be the first to throw someone over the bar if they screw with me, but I don't support this decision because it doesn't make sense to me.

PS, while typing this (and remaining on hold for a conference call with the bigwigs at the corporate office ) James Walker just came on ESPN and said he's confirmed that BEFORE Crennel made this decision, they had internal discussions on whether or not to make this move.

Savage, this move is going on your permanent record. You and RAC better be right. RAC can't afford for this move to fail. You barely can, but won't have any mulligans left.

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Sorry Toad but I wasn't talking about that line..I really don't care that he said they were going to beat the Broncs..
I'm talking about the lying ..

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Ah. Lost in translation. Got it.

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These little examples sound more like sour grapes..than actually finding a situation where you can really say he lied..

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To me, now we're talking about a white-lie versus a harmful-lie, and I don't see a difference. Whether the cause is just or not, a lie is a lie, and every coach has to lie or he's not doing his job.

Why are we talking about this one again? I forget

If Crennel said it was his decision, and then James Walker says they had internal discussions BEFORE the call was made, does that make him a liar? I say it does. I think my point to all of this was that no GM or HC can be honest all the time. Funny that I think RAC is a stiff and a dead-man-walking, yet I'll defend him.....for lying

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If Crennel said it was his decision, and then James Walker says they had internal discussions BEFORE the call was made, does that make him a liar? I say it does.

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Me and my co-workers discuss things all the time.. then somebody has to make the final decision and whoever made it has to stand behind it... Discussing something does not equal deciding something.

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Discussing something does not equal deciding something.

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So right......So we agree that RAC didn't actually make the decision

I know, I know. Just bringing some levity to all this.

All he had to say is that "WE" talked about it. RAC has gone WAY too far out of his way to give the impression it was totally his decision. That's now been debunked.

And Prpl.......it's "amateurish"