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Wow....just wow. We don't have the coach to run the 3-4? You do realize that the great Belechik you are touting as one of the only ones that can run it has stated that RAC was the one in charge of the defense and made the calls, right? Funny how Belechik disagrees with you. 
Yeah, let's hire Marty back. After all, he has all those Super Bowl appea.....errr, ummm, well...
You look at NE Defense since he left there and when he was there
that D hasn't changed...Maybe RAC "Made the Calls" But Bellichik made up the gameplans I can gurantee you
Bellichik made that D turn, Not romeo...you watch our Defense...it looks "nothing" Like Bellichiks or Parcells..nothing....Bellichik was just being nice and helping his friend get a job
the coaches I listed are the only Head Coaches in the NFL that hav e"proven" to be able to run a effective 3-4 Defense...the "key words" are: Head Coach and Successful 3-4 Defense
RAC's 3-4 is far from successful..rush 3-drop 8 90% of the time...please...
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Poser
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Poser
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You are dead wrong....once again. Belechik did NOT gome up with the defensive gameplan and has EVEN STATED THAT. I guess he is lying? To borrow your word, please. You are wrong. Period. End of dicsussion. EVERYONE involved has stated the exact opposite of the OPINION you are stating. Your "gaurantee" means nothing. I'll take the word of those that were actualy in the coach's meetings and on the staff...like the man you are giving credit to for the success.
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Legend
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Legend
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You know Coach, we but heads a lot, but not here. I don't believe we have "the personnel" to run it...............yet. At least not to any great success. But here's what keeps cracking me up about all of this.................... This team is "mostly" re-built. I think Phil might have missed on Wimbley as to just how much of an impact he would bring to the 3-4, but nobody bats 1000. And it's not like Wimnley is a bumb. And he is still pretty young and we may yet see him peak. But I'm getting off topic. Point being everybody complained about the OL. Okay, Phil fixed it! Most fans felt we needed a franchise QB. Okay, phil fixed it! This year, he took a stab at the DL. Rogers has been as good as anyone we could have drafted. But almost everybody on this board knows we need more help in the secondary. Everybody on here that knows JACK, ( be that Jack Squat, Jack Daniels or what ever! ), knew we would suffer in the secondary. Most know that we need yet one more impact player on the DL. One more on the DL some may ask? Yes, I think so. Shawn Rogers is a HIGH quality 3-4 DL. But we need another impact player there. So going into this year, we had high hopes for the D, but we knew it wasn't finished. And we knew if this DL couldn't get consistant pressure, that our young secondar would suffer. CB's can't cover forever. And young one's even do worse until they mature. So where's the big mystery? We knew this was our biggest weakness and question mark going into this season. At least in the top 2 or three. So why all the shock all of a sudden? Phil said it was a five year plan. Now I was hard on RAC, and he still has his question marks IMO. But without getting into detail, some of what I saw as very serious issues in the past, I've seen some improvement on. And once you see a problem, improvement SHOULD be what you're looking for. So I'm not on the fire RAC wagon. The way he himself has conducted business I think is getting better. I'm not sold on the guy either. I think the jury is still out. But Phil said he had a five year plan. Now I don't care what anybody says, we've grown by leaps and bounds in talent since Phil has been here. And I honestly believe that we're within a handfull of players away from looking like a TOTALY different team!People may call me crazy, but I can see it plain as day! We have a very promising young QB. A solid OL. A veteran RB with Harrison has pretty good depth. We have a young secondary who make youthfull mistakes. But they make some plays that wow you and show some promise that may come with experience. Glass half full there IMO......... I don't want to see it all kicked to the curb now when there aren't that many pieces of the puzzle to fix! So there's no way in HELL I can want Savage to leave! No damned way! I'm for Phil figuring it out. From everything I have seen, RAC was not Phil's pick. The only one who knows ALL of the details that go on between them, is them. Not saying people can't know or here of fairly general info. But what's between the two of them privatly, nobody really knows. But I'm 100% certain that they interract a lot. That's why they call it an organization. You can't be very organized if the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. Communication is key to success in any business or team IMO Phil is a great evaluator. So I will be happy to support Phil's decision in that regard. In the grand scheme of the corperate ladder, it's Randy, Phil, then RAC. And we all know things run down hill! So the fact of the matter is, any decision on RAC staying or going rests with Randy and Phil. I've seen some improvement from RAC in some areas. And some areas still concern me a bit. But you see, Phil's future will rest on this decision. He'll either stick with RAC, or go with someone new of his choice. So I either trust Phil's judgement, or I don't. And while no human being bats 1000, I think Phil's average is higher than most. So I'll back Phil's decision if he fires RAC tomorrow. I'll back Phil's decision if RAC stays another year. That's the bottom line here. Not people's raw emotions. Not how they percieve things. But what the end result of Phil's evaluation of RAC's job performance dictates his actions one way or the other regarding RAC IMO And which ever, when ever, or what ever that decision happens to be, I'll trust Phil's judgement. Because I'm sure he knows far better than me. And besides, it's his ass on the line, not mine. So I'm quite sure he will have weighed out his decision thoroughly. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Dawg Talker
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I agree with most everything you have said Pitt.
However, I want to take everyone back to the pre-season, and what most everyone was saying. That is nearly everyone said that the additions of Rogers and Williams should make our LB core better. And it did to a degree, just not to the degree needed to get the Browns defense over the top. Remember folks there were huge question marks hanging over this group. It just didn't work out like we all hoped it would. But we all knew it might not.
For instance I think WM has had his best season since joining the Browns. People say he is on his last leg, he should retire, he sucks. Well folks in limited snaps this season WM has been our best LB, period. Strange we put CW next to him and he is at least respectable, and that says a lot about the level of play that CW has displayed even with one arm.
I think if we can get a DLinemen that can play at the level CW does playing next to KW it will have the same effect. SS is not that guy, he is a back-up guy nothing more, IMHO.
That brings me back to our LBers. DQ has been great at times, and when he has played well the Browns defense has been OK. I have given up totally on AD, he takes bad angles and has no football instincts to speak of. He consistantly runs up the back of the D Linemen instead of filling the gap like you would expect an ILB to do. His play is pathetic, and if not for his coverage skills the Browns would be better served to play 10 guys. At least then you would know you have no help. I just cannot believe that we haven't benched him. Hell I would be in favor of letting someone else screw up for a change, if it comes to that. I have seen enough of AD, time to move on. I love the guy but he just isn't what he needs to be, and that is just killing the Browns defense.
So to sum up, I think if we can shore up our ILB ers will be worlds ahead. Of course I would couple that with a solid addition to the D Line. Unfortunately, the guys that we have that aren't playing up to snuff are dragging everyone else down with them. Their rolls in the 3-4 are such that without solid play from their positions they compromise the entire defense, no question.
#1 on my list is a ILB, that is the biggest key IMHO.
BTTB
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
I don't want to see it all kicked to the curb now when there aren't that many pieces of the puzzle to fix! So there's no way in HELL I can want Savage to leave! No damned way!
That single move right there will put us BACK 4 or 5 years...AGAIN...Especially if we go back to a 4-3 D...And what if the new dude don't like QUINN???...Yikes...
PEOPLE...BREATHE FOR A MINUTE...We are NOT THAT FAR AWAY...
It's damn near comical how so many don't see what Savage has had to do to this team...It's why it takes 3/4/5 years to turn a team into a winner after a regime change...When we cleaned house we had TWO YEARS...That's right...TWO YEARS to overcome CAP ramifications of all the STIFFS we had to get rid of...And in replace of those STIFFS...We brought in OTHER STIFFS JUST TO FIELD A DAMN TEAM...Shelton/Dilfer/Droughns/Fisk...LMAO...That's PATHETIC...
It's pretty obvious that what Savage has done is look at UNITS...And upgrade those UNITS yearly...
He hit the LB Core HARD...Has everyone panned out???...NO...So we go at it again this off season...4 will stick tho...Wimbley/Hall/Williams/Bell...We're 2 LB's away...Like you said...Can't hit 100%...NOONE EVER DOES...
We go from the WORST OL in football to one of the BEST...THANK GOD Savage had the cahoones to bypass Quinn and the Franchise QB for that Franchise LT that will HELP that Franchise QB when he's landed...Just so happens it happened a couple HOURS later...lol...
He attacked the WR spot with a TRUE #1 threat and didn't let his EGO get in the way of keeping a STUD TE in the fold...He gets kudos from that move...
He brings in a #1 RB for 3 or so years...And he'll get a replacement...SOON...
He's attacked the Secondary...And it's FULL OF YOUTH RIGHT NOW that hopefully pans out...
He's attacked the DL...
He's basically gone after EVERY SINGLE UNIT that many of us thought he should...Till now that hasn't been too damn hard to figure out...And really won't be this year after seeing what's going on even with a STUD at NT and a solid End...
SAVAGE GOES NOWHERE AND WE DO NOT SWITCH TO A 4-3 DEFENSE...
I'm with you Pit...NO WAY DO WE LET GO OF SAVAGE...Not even for the "CHIN"...
We're CLOSE...ALOT closer than the avg fan thinks...
Go Browns!!!
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Legend
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j/c..
Savage has addressed our needs. Especially when it comes to bringing free agents in here to play as Cleveland Browns.
Some of his draft picks have panned out, some haven't. Last year we used all of our day one picks, so the rookies he did bring in here still can't be judged.
We are staying in the 3-4. Romeo should be our head coach next year, unless we just look pathetic for the rest of the season, which i doubt. Savage will bring in another MLB and OLB, and also more corners.
At some point, either Davis or Leon Williams will get phased out...I'm more so for keeping Davis b/c he would be good on run situations b/c of his body, and also b/c he is a leader on our defense. Leon has speed, but thats it. Even with that speed, he is always chasing targets down the field.
I'd rather have:
1)D'Qwell Jackson
2) 1st/ 2nd round pick
3) Andra Davis
4) Beau Bell
Those are heavy hitters... We need those to shore up the middle. And I think that will solve a lot of problems that we have against the run.
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Hall of Famer
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He hit the LB Core HARD...Has everyone panned out???...NO...So we go at it again this off season...4 will stick tho...Wimbley/Hall/Williams/Bell...We're 2 LB's away...Like you said...Can't hit 100%...NOONE EVER DOES...
I let the other comments go because I feel too many people haven't noticed something.
I'll repeat this..since Phil has been here he's failed(not because he didn't try) to get a top FA LB..be it inside or outside..every year a targeted backer either resigns or goes elsewhere..
That hurts more than people know..because we haven't been able to draft a stud yet.
We used early picks on other areas..
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Legend
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THE OFFICIAL KEEP RAC THREAD
_______________________________
Okay, everbody knows I don't like RAC but I can think of a lot of reasons to keep him and much fewer reasons to send him packing.
Keep Him -
1) Continuity. A big ONE.
2) A TON of injuries have hurt us this year, not RAC.
3) He seems like he is starting to get it, a new coach would have to do it his way before he got it.
4) I'm damn sick of rebuilding...
5) The players seem to respect him. KW2 did not call out RAC. BE and DA are not bad mouthing him, hell none of the players are publically saying anything detrimental about the team.
6) Some say he is losing the team, while I say the team is losing games. If they were winning RAC's job would not be on the line.
7) The MNF game against the Giants PROOVED to me that RAC can coach, we have talent and these guys can win. The problems are somewhere between injuries, consistency and confidence. NONE of these will be improved by firing RAC.
Fire HIM -
1) Overall Record.
2) Backslide this year.
3) This years record.
4) Poor game and Clock management.(Useless Field Goals)
So even though I don't care for him personally, I'm not sure I am ready to call for his head.
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 11/11/08 10:34 AM.
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1) Continuity. A big ONE.
It only works if you have compitent people running the show...people throw continuity around like its a lock to sucess...no its not!
Ask Cinci and Det how they like it!
Failure over and over doesnt add up to sucess...RAC most likely SHOULD be fired IMO.
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3) He seems like he is starting to get it, a new coach would have to do it his way before he got it.
4) I'm damn sick of rebuilding...
Its sad if RAC is just now getting it, if he is just now learning some basic principles of coaching then there really is no hope. We need a HC that been a HC before, Marty, Cowher, Billick...etc.
Just cuz we get a new HC doesnt automatically mean rebuilding, the term rebuilding means you have no talent and will purge the roster and start anew. That isnt going to happen, we need a coach, not a dad figure here...its huge issue.
This team talent wise is not a long way off as their record says, the offesne is nearly complete, it just needs time...and the defense is 3 LB's away.
What this team is along way off in is..... its coaching, from the position coaches to RAC...we get our butts kicked week in and out...Cam Cameron made Chud look like a dolt..when the 2 went head to head...Chud is better than Mo, that is all he is. Tuck is not ready for DC job...not even close...
We need a real HC and get some real NFL cordinators and position coaches.
Its not a start over, rebuild, or anything backwards...its a MAJOR step foward to get a real staff in here.
I just dont like the misconception running around on boards that if we stay with RAC long enough it will bring sucess, and that if we fire him we are rebuilding. 
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Legend
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It only works if you have compitent people running the show...people throw continuity around like its a lock to sucess...no its not!
I agree. Sometimes that bumpy road is just going to stay that way because it is a crappy road.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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2nd String
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I wonder if Savage and Cowher could convince Crennel to stick around as our Defensive Coordinator again?
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2nd String
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I agree completely. The cupboard is not bare here. We have talent and a good talent evaluator. Firing Crennel as HC and hiring a guy like Cowher does not equal rebuilding..
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Practice Squad
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The problem is that firing Crennel does not guarantee getting a new coach that has head coaching experience at the NFL level. We could very well hire one of the hot D Coordinators or a college coach again. Just because you want a guy with NFL head coaching experience doesn't mean that's what we'll get.
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Legend
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"Maybe RAC "Made the Calls" But Bellichik made up the gameplans I can gurantee you"
Sorry to pile on here...but you can't guarantee Squadoosh. But lets see here. We are talking about GAME PLANNING and in your opinion RAC has none and in NE it was all Bellicheck...of course all the PATs SB rings came with RAC managing the game plans...what a coincidence the Pats couldn't put that Genius game plan together without RAC???
2. Giants, right there in print, thanking the BROWNs and in effect thanking RAC for setting the Bue Print on defeating the BEST OFFENSIVE TEAM in this ERA!
3. Execution...sorry this is where we are missing and the HC, RAC, Cowher - I don't care who must depend on their Asst. Coaches to take that game plan and prepare the team for its Execution!!! Unless the HC becomes a MicroManager. But those guys rarely get into the Championship. Bellicheck was in Cleveland...then he became more of an overseer letting his Asst. do their job!
4. RAC's biggest fault is that he is too loyal to his Asst. I think a couple must go or be moved/demoted. Tucker is in way over his head. And Haluchuck is maybe over the hill as I see nothing from his units...actually I have seen more from the NOBODY LBs of 2005 than what we are seeing now as in development into the system and game plan! I truly hope McG comes back as the LB coach and we fire/retire Haluchuck
JMHO...but your guarantee is no guarantee at all...actually a big time MISS.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Practice Squad
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4. RAC's biggest fault is that he is too loyal to his Asst. I think a couple must go or be moved/demoted. Tucker is in way over his head. And Haluchuck is maybe over the hill as I see nothing from his units...actually I have seen more from the NOBODY LBs of 2005 than what we are seeing now as in development into the system and game plan! I truly hope McG comes back as the LB coach and we fire/retire Haluchuck
I think your right on about the LB coach. The job is not getting done there. As far as Tucker, it's his first year. Do you can him after a year in which he's getting his feet wet or see if he progresses? He's had some really solid gameplans but it seems he doesn't go for the kill and plays soft with a lead or in long yardage situations. That can be easily fixed by just staying agressive.
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Legend
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The problem is that firing Crennel does not guarantee getting a new coach that has head coaching experience at the NFL level
And this is another major misconception that is thrown around so much. The more successful hires lately in the NFL have NOT had previous NFL HC experience.
I will just keep throwing it out there because it keeps coming up...
Look at this year's successful new hires: Mike Smith, Harbaugh, Zorn, Sparano
Look at Tomlin and Mangini
Young, confident leaders are out there with great fire to instill on a team. We need to find ours.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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"Do you can him after a year in which he's getting his feet wet or see if he progresses?"
Can he become the real deal??? I don't know but this is not a Classroom of learning. There are SOOOOOO many READY to make the jump to DC why mess around with a guy who has to learn on the fly. His promotion was a bit premature.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Legend
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Legend
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I agree completely. The cupboard is not bare here. We have talent and a good talent evaluator.
Which those two things right there are HUGE!
Now I've already stated in this thread that I will support Savage's decision on RAC no matter the outcome. I have not waivered on that. But for the sake of arguement, let's say he does decide to make a move at the HC position.
Former NFL coaches have a reputation. Marty, Cowher, etc....
And some of these guys can pretty much write their own ticket. Oppertunities will present themselves to these men, and they can select a job that will "further" their careers and reputations.
When RAC came here, the cupboard was bare. Why would any established NFL HC want to put himself in such a position? Why would they want to take such a huge gamble to blimish their reputation? IMO, that would have been a foolish move on their part.
But now? They can see the talent level elivated. They can see that overall, Phil has a good eye for talent. Do they see this as a team, that with the proper coaching is on the verge of a turn around? I believe quite possibly yes.
I can see a guy like Cowher or Marty seeing this as a golden oppertunity to look like a genious. That they could appear as our savior. Because we're not that many players away from being in the hunt and in the thick of things.
So I can see why a quality HC would not have wanted to touch us with a ten foot pole four years ago. I can also see how now, they may see it as a VERY tempting oppertunity.
As I stated, which ever way Phil decides to go, I'll trust his judgement and support his decision. But I can see how his options may be far better than they were four years ago.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Hall of Famer
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I'd send Tucker back to DB coach..he did a better job with that unit.
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
And this is another major misconception that is thrown around so much. The more successful hires lately in the NFL have NOT had previous NFL HC experience.
I guess we have different meanings of success.
Here's a list of the most recent SB winning teams and their coaches:
Giants - Coughlin (Jacksonville)
Colts - Dungy (TB)
Steelers - Cowher
NE - Bellicheck (Cleveland)
NE - Bellicheck (Cleveland)
TB - Gruden (Oakland)
NE - Bellicheck (Cleveland)
Ravens - Billick
Rams - Vermeil (Philadelphia)
Denver - Shanahan (Oakland)
Denver - Shanahan (Oakland)
9 out of the last 11 SB winning teams had head coaches with previous head coaching experience in the NFL.
LIbertatem Defendimus!!
2010 Dawgtalkers NCAA Bracket Challenge Champ!!
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Quote:
You are dead wrong....once again.
how do you figure? You haven't proved anything.
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Belechik did NOT gome up with the defensive gameplan and has EVEN STATED THAT.
just because Bellichik said that makes it true? so i guess when Bellichik said he wasn't spying on the Jets, that was true too huh? 
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I guess he is lying? To borrow your word, please
Yes he is lying...the proof is in the pudding...watch the film...that Patriots are an attacking Defense, and blitz often, they always have..the Browns rush 3 and drop 8..the proof is in the pudding. Our Scheme looks nothing like the Patriots
You obviously don't know much about Bellichik...when he coached her ein Cleveland as the Head Coach, he was power hungry and he made up all the defensive gameplans and called the Defenses here...one year we gave up the least amount of points in the league...Ask Bernie Kosar about Bellichik..its his way or the high way...do you really think Bellichik let RAc make up the D gameplans all on his own? you obviously don't know Bellichik very well if that is the case....
{quote]. You are wrong. Period. End of dicsussion. EVERYONE involved has stated the exact opposite of the OPINION you are stating. Your "gaurantee" means nothing.
Its funny how you wish to end the discussion so quickly...as if your "Coaching Opinion" is the only one that matters...coaching isn't all what people want to make it out to be. If coaching was so "complicated" those guys would have MBA's sitting behind the desk as a CEO for some Coporation making 6 mill a year with a yearly 10-12 mill bonus on top of it every year.
Paul Brown said it best "Football is just hitting and tackling" not matter what "scheme" you play, no matter how hard you "think" if guys don't have heart, can't go out and want to rip someones head off each and every play, then i question their heart and they are not true football players
the FACTS coach is this:
1. The Browns are a "soft" football team. This is a reflection of the coach and a reflection of a lack of accountability and demands for excellence in this organization. The Browns, as much as i love them, are the definition of "ineptitude" the Browns should be listed in the dictionary for the pictorial definition of that word...these players just slide buy and cash a check.
where is the accountability...these men are paid professionals and we have a coach that trats them like children
Braylons job should have been in jeapardy weeks ago...he should have been benched...
what happens in the "real world" when you got a job and you constantly under perform? well you get coahced, maybe wrote up, it continues you get FIRED
It should be no different with Braylon..if I was a GM..i would introduce this novel concept into a contract that says for certain reasons I can "fire you" and only pay 15% of your contract worth for firing you...granted reasons for being fired should be something like:
1. Performance reasons
2. conduct detrimental to the team
3. Gross conduct
4. etc
your typical company firing policy...
These players are not held accountable...do you really think Cowher would put up with this from Edwards? Edwards would be lucky if cowher didn't put him though a wall at half time and I can gurantee you cowher would have benched him weeks ago and just gave someone else a chance simply because he won't put up with it(see Plaxico burress)
We don't have the personel to run the 3-4..im tired of a prevent D, this D is nothing like New England. rush 3 and drop 8 is "rarely" done in NE..it is done here on a regualr basis
Just because your a coach, or a coach for the Browns or what not is irrelevant...the facot of the matter is this team is underperforming...especially Defensivly..we have the DL now, our LB while awful, are good enough to be a 16th-21st ranked D...we never blitz which just makes our LB look even more horrid...we get picked apart by rushing 3..it makes me sick...our coaching staff needs to grow a pair...
Mike Singletary is the kinda coach we need...he don't put up with prima donna's and such...a guy from the old school...he holds his players accountable...itd about time he sent one of these over-payed kids off his field...i agree with him about not being able to coach, player, or win with people like him...bout time a coach got the guts to call someone on it...but you will never see that from RAC
singletary would have benched Edwards weeks ago...as for San Fran..look what he inherited...no way you can judge the guy on that...but He is "exactly" what the doctor ordered he because this man "simply will not put up with this type of lackluster garbage" we have seen here for years
either singletary or cowher should be our next Head coach..if we cna't get cowher, I want Singletary if he is availbe...I want an old school coach. who will hold these guys accountable and no more free rides in cleveland.
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Wow....just....wow. RAC, Belichek, former players, curent players....they ALL say that RAC ran the defense in New England and YOU come out ans say he didnt. Your proof is that you said "nuh uh". Wow, unbelieveable. New Engalnd is an attacking defense and we aren't....that's proof? Maybe, just MAYBE we don't have the personnel to do so year?!?!?! What a concept, actually adjusting the scheme to the personnel, or lack thereof. While he was the coach of the Browns, he did play a major role in developing the game plans. Guess what, he has come out and admited YEARS ago that he wasn't ready to be a head coach yet and still needed to learn under Parcells and made MANY mistakes while in Cleveland. So, you pointing to what he did here with the Browns doesn't prove squat. Sorry, I'll take the word of everyone that ACTUALLY WAS THERE over someone claiming that everyone in the NFL is lying because they said so.  This isn't about opinion. Who ran the defense in New England is a fact, not an opinion. The facts have been reported. You don't like them so you refute them with.....nothing.
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Mike Singletary is the kinda coach we need...he don't put up with prima donna's and such...a guy from the old school...he holds his players accountable...itd about time he sent one of these over-payed kids off his field...i agree with him about not being able to coach, player, or win with people like him...bout time a coach got the guts to call someone on it...but you will never see that from RAC
singletary would have benched Edwards weeks ago...as for San Fran..look what he inherited...no way you can judge the guy on that...but He is "exactly" what the doctor ordered he because this man "simply will not put up with this type of lackluster garbage" we have seen here for years
Mike is the last thing this team needs...he is in the other ditch...maybe RAC is too quiet..Mike is over the top..plus he makes rash decisions. You cant have a guy like that running your team.
I know...its the popular "he wont put up with those prima donas"...
Ya know what Singletary ended having to do? Apologize to Vernon Davis...all you do when your like Singletary..is lose the respect of players. Its not nearly as simple as you make it sound...just bench Edwards? yeah...and cripple the offense.
Edwards should not start a game...let him sit for awhile...but mostly Edwards just needs to concentrate. And say what you like about him...he drops balls, and has not been good this year...but he plays hard. Hes the only WR we've had since 99 that run blocks...and continues to be very good in that area.
If your gonna bench every player on every team that would fall under prima dona...bye bye...half the league. Oh wait...Singletary siad he'd play with 10 men. You can say "I wont put up with garabage play" but if you dont have any good players, what are you gonna do? Quit?
The coach can only deal with what hes got...just cuz Mike Singletary says he isnt gonna put up with garabage doesnt mean his team will be one once better.
BTW...their 0-2 under him.
Its about blending discipline and respect towards the players.
As I said Singletary is way off on one side....his antics are cute...but will land him back in the DC job. I feel RAC is on the other side of things...we need a balanced HC in the disciplined area.
Players need to held accountable...but not by a lose cannon, not kneejerk, and not corrected through the media.
We do not need a Mike Singletary...his act, while amusing, wont last long....its just a nice side show, but not great coaching.
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We often times disagree Coach, but you summed it up quite accuratly in this comment right here IMO............. Quote:
New Engalnd is an attacking defense and we aren't....that's proof? Maybe, just MAYBE we don't have the personnel to do so year?!?!?! What a concept, actually adjusting the scheme to the personnel, or lack thereof.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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We often times disagree Coach, but you summed it up quite accuratly in this comment right here IMO.............
Quote:
New Engalnd is an attacking defense and we aren't....that's proof? Maybe, just MAYBE we don't have the personnel to do so year?!?!?! What a concept, actually adjusting the scheme to the personnel, or lack thereof.
I'll go ya one better my friend  .. We not only don't have the Personal ; We don't have the Coach
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Maybe RAC "Made the Calls" But Bellichik made up the gameplans I can gurantee you
If that's a money-back guarantee, I'll take mine in 10's and 20's.
Wow. I'm sure glad this post of mine was still sitting on the shelf. It saves mr from "chewing my cabbage twice" :
cheers!
Clemdawg
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#444383 - Tue Sep 09 2008 11:48 PM
"The Pats won because Bellichek was the control freak and didnt allow Romeo to Fudge things up."
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This statement is simply incorrect.
It's false, misleading, and smacks of "personal spin."
By Bill Belichick's own admission, Romeo schemed the D and ran it. Patriots players have been asked about it in public intervews as well, and have said the exact same thing. Tedi Bruschi, Richard Seymour, and even Ty Law sounded like members of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir in their praise for Romeo:
''Romeo makes the game plan, conducts our meetings, calls the defenses in the games and runs the entire defense,'' cornerback Ty Law said. ''Bill Belichick puts in the flavor and makes suggestions, but Romeo puts in his imprint, too, and runs it. He is a man of class and he is a distinguished person. He would be a distinguished head coach. Somebody one day soon is going to make him a head coach, and the teams that miss out that could have had him will regret it.''
New York Times article: 12/23/2003 : Romeo A. Crennel
then, there's this one:
"The defense will likely be a carbon copy of New England's 3-4 scheme, with plenty of complexity.
That alone should be the biggest hurdle for Crennel with the Browns. Assembling a defense with New England's playbook – reputed to be one of the most difficult to master in the NFL – will require finding players who can handle massive amounts of information and be able to recall and maximize schemes that could undergo wholesale changes from week to week.
"You can't be a dummy and play in our system," Patriots safety Rodney Harrison said. "We have so many adjustments week in and week out to deal with. You have to be able to adjust on the go. Sometimes we might cover something in training camp and we might not get back to it for a month."
There's no reason to think anything different will be expected from the Browns under Crennel, especially now that he's bucked the popular misconception that he's simply a caretaker for Belichick's planning. New England's acclaimed linebacking corps wastes no time lavishing praise on their coordinator.
"Part of the mastermind behind the scheme," Roman Phifer said.
"Imperative to us and our success," Tedy Bruschi added.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-crennel020205&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
...and flag me for "piling on," (Olde Schoole, I admit, hehe...) but I just had to add this one, in terms of Romeo's approach to Head Coaching:
(from a Charlie Weis interview...)
"I went to (Belichick) and I wanted to know how he went from being the best defensive coordinator in football to allowing Romeo (Crennel) and Eric (Mangini) and Dean Peas to run the defense?" Weis said. "I asked him how do you cut the cord? How does Andy Reid let Marty Morningweg call the plays when he's always been the play caller?
"The bottom line from both was they believe it gives you the opportunity to be a better head coach."
__________________________________________
This assumption that BB was the mad scientist and RC was simply his Igor is wrong. It's been wrong all along, and it's baffling to me to see it persist year after year... when there is all kinds of evidence to the contrary out there. It took me all of 10 minutes to grab those links. back in Sept. ONLY 10 MINUTES to find out what was really said about Romeo's time there.
It's time for this myth to finally die.
The truth is out there, people...
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Excellant,now you've proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that RAC was a good DC.
Now,maybe you can search that internet and find out why our D sucks,still.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Excellant,now you've proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that RAC was a good DC.
Now,maybe you can search that internet and find out why our D sucks,still.
Because he's not the DC.. he's the HC? 
yebat' Putin
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Will that require a link?
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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The truth is out there, people...
Thank you a hundred times over. 
#gmstrong
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Assembling a defense with New England's playbook – reputed to be one of the most difficult to master in the NFL – will require finding players who can handle massive amounts of information and be able to recall and maximize schemes that could undergo wholesale changes from week to week.
Must have been so difficult that they gave up on it.
I don't care who did what in New England...our defensive playcalling has been atrocious. Very rarely do we seem to adjust anything.
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"Now,maybe you can search that internet and find out why our D sucks,still."
I don't quite understand this remark...are you just making a joke. Or our you trying to put Clemdawg down for actually presenting facts that can form more than an opinion but the truth and theory that RAC is a good game planner?
Before I judge what you are talking about it would be nice if you gave some clarification.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I don't pick on people,humor born out of frustration.The worse kind.
This RAC was BB's puppett thread seems to appear annually,and always gets shot down by Clem or someone else.
RAC was in NE,what 4 yrs?,they played some outstanding D.His credentials as a DC cannot be questioned.But his HC ability is up for debate.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Quote:
Quote:
Maybe RAC "Made the Calls" But Bellichik made up the gameplans I can gurantee you
If that's a money-back guarantee, I'll take mine in 10's and 20's.
Wow. I'm sure glad this post of mine was still sitting on the shelf. It saves mr from "chewing my cabbage twice" :
cheers!
Clemdawg
Quote:
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#444383 - Tue Sep 09 2008 11:48 PM
"The Pats won because Bellichek was the control freak and didnt allow Romeo to Fudge things up."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This statement is simply incorrect.
It's false, misleading, and smacks of "personal spin."
By Bill Belichick's own admission, Romeo schemed the D and ran it. Patriots players have been asked about it in public intervews as well, and have said the exact same thing. Tedi Bruschi, Richard Seymour, and even Ty Law sounded like members of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir in their praise for Romeo:
''Romeo makes the game plan, conducts our meetings, calls the defenses in the games and runs the entire defense,'' cornerback Ty Law said. ''Bill Belichick puts in the flavor and makes suggestions, but Romeo puts in his imprint, too, and runs it. He is a man of class and he is a distinguished person. He would be a distinguished head coach. Somebody one day soon is going to make him a head coach, and the teams that miss out that could have had him will regret it.''
New York Times article: 12/23/2003 : Romeo A. Crennel
then, there's this one:
"The defense will likely be a carbon copy of New England's 3-4 scheme, with plenty of complexity.
That alone should be the biggest hurdle for Crennel with the Browns. Assembling a defense with New England's playbook – reputed to be one of the most difficult to master in the NFL – will require finding players who can handle massive amounts of information and be able to recall and maximize schemes that could undergo wholesale changes from week to week.
"You can't be a dummy and play in our system," Patriots safety Rodney Harrison said. "We have so many adjustments week in and week out to deal with. You have to be able to adjust on the go. Sometimes we might cover something in training camp and we might not get back to it for a month."
There's no reason to think anything different will be expected from the Browns under Crennel, especially now that he's bucked the popular misconception that he's simply a caretaker for Belichick's planning. New England's acclaimed linebacking corps wastes no time lavishing praise on their coordinator.
"Part of the mastermind behind the scheme," Roman Phifer said.
"Imperative to us and our success," Tedy Bruschi added.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-crennel020205&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
...and flag me for "piling on," (Olde Schoole, I admit, hehe...) but I just had to add this one, in terms of Romeo's approach to Head Coaching:
(from a Charlie Weis interview...)
"I went to (Belichick) and I wanted to know how he went from being the best defensive coordinator in football to allowing Romeo (Crennel) and Eric (Mangini) and Dean Peas to run the defense?" Weis said. "I asked him how do you cut the cord? How does Andy Reid let Marty Morningweg call the plays when he's always been the play caller?
"The bottom line from both was they believe it gives you the opportunity to be a better head coach."
__________________________________________
This assumption that BB was the mad scientist and RC was simply his Igor is wrong. It's been wrong all along, and it's baffling to me to see it persist year after year... when there is all kinds of evidence to the contrary out there. It took me all of 10 minutes to grab those links. back in Sept. ONLY 10 MINUTES to find out what was really said about Romeo's time there.
It's time for this myth to finally die.
The truth is out there, people...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Wow....just....wow. RAC, Belichek, former players, curent players....they ALL say that RAC ran the defense in New England and YOU come out ans say he didnt. Your proof is that you said "nuh uh". Wow, unbelieveable.
New Engalnd is an attacking defense and we aren't....that's proof? Maybe, just MAYBE we don't have the personnel to do so year?!?!?! What a concept, actually adjusting the scheme to the personnel, or lack thereof.
While he was the coach of the Browns, he did play a major role in developing the game plans. Guess what, he has come out and admited YEARS ago that he wasn't ready to be a head coach yet and still needed to learn under Parcells and made MANY mistakes while in Cleveland. So, you pointing to what he did here with the Browns doesn't prove squat.
Sorry, I'll take the word of everyone that ACTUALLY WAS THERE over someone claiming that everyone in the NFL is lying because they said so.
This isn't about opinion. Who ran the defense in New England is a fact, not an opinion. The facts have been reported. You don't like them so you refute them with.....nothing.
Well each to their own, I go by results, not what someone says..the Browns are in the 4th year of the program, We added 2 Pro Bowl DL in Smith and Willaims, Shaun smith was highly touted coming from Cincy and is a good player, Robaire still has a few years left in the tank..our DL is "above" average...Rodgers and Willaims were not So highley touted for nothing
We have "enough" talent to atleast "start" implementing some of what RAC did in New England, yet this D looks no different than Grantham with the exception of a safety blitz here and there...why do we rush only 3 about 60% of the time and rush 4 the rest of the time...we "rarely" send more than 5 its mostly 3 and 4...that is playing "not to lose" and all that does is cause you to lose
I don't think the Steelers are "that much" more talented on D than we are...look at the LB they have had over the years, you plug Dqwell Jackson in at ILB in Pittsburgh and he would be a Pro Bowler, they plug anyone in over there and get the same results year after year
Its all in the "Defensive coaching and Scheme"...Dick Lebeau attacks and puts his players in the "optimal position" to succeed...why do we not? we are not getting the most out of our players on the Defensive side of the ball
For example, the Browns could very easily help their Defense by doing a few things:
On 3rd downs and 5 or more:
1. On some plays, "Overload" the QB Blindside by lining Wimbely, and another LB up over there and Stunt your DL the Opposite Direction, while rolling the safety to that side..this "forces" the QB to make a decision quick...the law of averages says that is an incomplete pass about 65% of the time.
2. Blitz the "slot corner" from the blind side sometimes
then switch it up, and also switch up the overloading on the right and left sides...we do "nothing" creative at all nothing
sometimes show the overload at presnap, and then back off just to keep the QB honest...all we do is vanilla rush 3 or 4...its not to hard to figure out what to do..we make offensive coordinators jobs easy against us.....it not brain science to figure out those who blitz has more success generaly...the one year we made the playoffs, Foge Fazio was our D-coordinator..that man "had a pair"..we blitzed "all the time" its no coincidence that Jamir Miller got all those sacks while he was D-coordinator here..he put Jamir in positions to allow him to succeed
My point is "we don't even try" and don't tell me the 2001 Browns D was that much more talented...outside of Earl Holmes, i'd say these 2 D's right now are very close on par....why was Fazio able to get pressure on QB's? because the man wasn't scared to gamble thats why
Tucker and RAc need to grow a pair and atleast "try" if they would be "trying to blitz" and we lose, I could live with that and have no qualms with it...but this Browns D is the same D year in and year out...its nothing more than a modified prevent D..its sickening to watch us get picked apart all game..sickening...you watch the Ravens, the Steelers, heck even the Arizona Cardinals don't get picked apart all game like we do...something is wrong with that...Maybe RAc needs to tell tucker to be a bit more "aggressive"? I don't know
I Like RAC, I think he "can" be a Good Head coach, but he needs to be more involved with his Coordinators only when its "obvious" things are not working, he needs to look at the schemes and see if there is something he can do to help the team get something done, that is his job..he gives coordinators too much free reign...the Head coach has to be able to step in sometimes and help out a bit...especailly when its clear were getting picked apart...why he doens't do this i don't know.
There is no way Cowher or anyone else would sit back and allow his coordinator to only rush 3 while we get picked apart...cowher would make adjustments and tell his coordinator to blitz a bit more...just little things like this could help RAC a long way
This flaw was shown with Carthon...he came highley reccommended from Bill Parcells...we saw how that turned out, Savage forced RAC to fire him, had Savage not done this, Carthon would probably still be here
but anyways, one some points we will agree to disagree, but I still respect your views as a Browns Fan...hopefully we get our season turned around and hopefully our D plays a bit better this week.
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I thought it was a known fact that Romeo ran that D in New England.
He really is a great D-coord. Head coach, maybe not as much, but the guy did good things with a very beat up New England secondary. Sure, the talent needs to be there, but someone has to bring all the ingredients together to make one hell of a stew.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Crennel was an excellent coordinator. I have long-stopped believing he's a legit HC, but he can coach defenses as long as he likes in this league.
It's an unfortunate reality in the NFL that there are dozens of coordinators who, while great at that gig, just didn't have what it took to be a head coach. Crennel will join the Dave McGinnis's and Dick LeBeau's of the world......
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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LOL, so you ignore all the quotes listed by Clem that prove you wrong and then go into attempting to give a coaching clinic. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but that is hilarious. I am not aware of you having ever coached a down but you are sitting there saying how much better your scheme would work than RAC's? He has how many Super Bowl rings coaching defense? Seriously, RAC is a PROVEN defenseive coach that knows how to game plan. He sees the personnel every day in practice. This isn't Madden. I don't mean that to sound harsh, but it's true. We're not that far off talent wise from the Steelers' D? Hmmm, except that we have an again OLB, a below avg MLB, an undersized MLB, a slow developing OLB, two second year CBs, injury depleted DL, and a injury slowed SS, yeah, we're pretty close to the Stelers talentwise on D.
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so basically in summation.....
the pat's were good on defense because bellicheck had a good defensive coordinator, and let him do his job...that man was rac
in cleveland we don't have a great defense because either tucker is not a good coordinator, or he doen't have the personel to do what he wants to.... either way, rac is letting him do his job....
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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