DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum GM plant's closing like death knell in Dayton

95 percent for SIX MONTHS Many of the guys loved being layed off for a few months.

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OMG

A sensible response from Congress? How the hell did that happen?????

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The republicans have been defeated so now they don't have to worry about who gets the credit?

That's all I can come up with.

I don't think bonuses are necessary at the highest levels and whats worse they provide incentives for a CEOs to make decisions that aren't in the long term interest of the company because their bonus will make them extremely wealthy in the short run. That is exactly what happened to the US auto industry in the 1950s and the investment banks this year.
I believe the CEO of Toyota receives a fixed salary of about 1 million a year. He seems to be doing OK and I seriously doubt they'd be doing any better if they dangled a 10 million dollar bonus in front of him.

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Answer my question....how is the bailout going to get people to buy the cars??

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What bailout are you speaking of....

suppose this fits well here....


linky

Detroit Blame Game
Published 11/21/08 Craig Harrington - Print Article
E-mail - editor@economyincisis.org

There is plenty of reason to blame Detroit for its own circumstances. The Detroit automakers have been some of the most poorly managed companies in the nation for many years, operating at times oblivious to actual and important market trends. They pushed bad products for years because it was easy, but they are not solely to blame for the collapse of the American auto industry, according to Forbes.

If we are going to look outside of the automakers for the source of their problems the first stop we have to make is in the halls of Congress and the legislative capitols of every state in the country. Governmental policy restrictions and regulations hindered and undermined the automakers for decades.

The government imposed fuel economy restrictions and mandated that the “Big Three” build smaller more efficient cars, yet gave no reason for consumers to purchase them. In other countries a gallon of gas is taxed so heavily they regularly pay prices Americans would never dream of. In the United States the government’s close relationship with oil companies makes gasoline much cheaper than anywhere else in the world. Until recently consumers had no reason to buy small vehicles. The automakers, however, had to continue making smaller vehicles even though they didn’t turn much profit. Small cars are usually just as expensive to make as light trucks or SUV’s but cannot demand the same price.

Furthermore, in an effort to avoid allowing a market monopoly, the Department of Justice forced American automakers to allow Japanese imports into their showrooms. In no other industry, and in no other country, is one competitor allowed free access to its competition’s facilities.

The government basically allowed the influx of Japanese imports to begin. Eventually these vehicles proved to be of higher quality than their American counterparts and they “earned” their market-share. However, the fact that they were invited to come is disturbing. The trend of inviting competition in for free is common in the U.S. where states will provide hundreds of millions of dollars in tax incentives and subsidies to get Toyota, Honda or Nissan to build a plant in their community. They charge their residents for the right to purchase foreign competition which undermines domestic manufacturers. To make matters worse, in their constant yearning for “jobs” the constituents largely agree with these policies. There are no GM or Ford production facilities in Japan or Korea, their governments guarantee a “captive” market for domestic autos. The United States, in its endless and ruinous pursuit of “free-markets,” is the only country that allows such practices.

The United Autoworkers Union has not helped matters either. Its push to increase workers wages – and thus increase their union dues – has effectively priced American manufacturers out of any ability to compete with foreign brands. The “Big Three” use essentially the same technology, the same methods and many of the same components to build their vehicles, yet they have to pay their employees, demand less and are left with little bargaining leverage.

Perhaps the most blame can be passed to the U.S. consumer, who charged ahead with purchases of big “gas guzzlers” instead of realizing the obvious dangers of oil price increases. Had consumers demanded more efficiency the automakers would have had to comply – instead we demanded this.

There is plenty of blame to go around when assessing the deteriorating situation in Detroit. The people running the companies certainly did a lot to bury themselves, but America must also look in the mirror. Detroit has largely been replaced by more efficient, often “better” foreign alternatives. But why has it gotten to this point? We all took a backseat while the American auto industry fell from its pinnacle. Now we all have to shoulder the blame and hoist the auto industry out of its ashes.

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Perhaps the most blame can be passed to the U.S. consumer, who charged ahead with purchases of big “gas guzzlers” instead of realizing the obvious dangers of oil price increases. Had consumers demanded more efficiency the automakers would have had to comply – instead we demanded this.

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Of all the claims in this article, this one is by far the most ridiculous...that consumers didn't demand anything but "gas guzzlers" and not more fuel efficient cars.

Just look at the market share in the U.S. of Toyota, Nissan, Honda, VW and the other foreign companies that offer the more efficient cars. It's the AMERICAN people who are buying these cars in America...DON'T TELL ME THERE IS NO DEMAND AND ITS THE CONSUMERS FAULT!!!

Americans have been wanting Detroit to build cars to compete with the foreign car makers for years, and no one in Detroit was listening. I'm sure that many Americans would rather buy an American made car instead of a foreign car if Detroit would compete in this market.

This claim that Americans don't want to buy smaller, highly efficient cars is pure BS. Foreign car companies managed to find a market for their smaller, highly efficient cars in America, didn't they?

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Uh, the one you were discussing in this thread yesterday?

Why be coy???

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I'm not being coy... Bailout is a word being used by the media.. there isn't a bailout going on for the Auto Industry... There hasn't been a bailout requested by the Auto Industry...

They are asking for loans.. and like anyone that is loaning money to someone, the Gov wants to know the ROI.. and that's whats up for debate..

No bailouts.. just loans..

Now, if you want to talk about thier loan requests,, fine!

Oh my goodness, I have to agree with mac..

Seems like a self-defeating argument to say that the imports were eating up market share of smaller fuel efficient cars but the American consumer wasn't forcing the Big 3 to produce those kinds of vehicles...

Holy crap,, you are right DC... Mac is correct!

I won't argue that Americans buying foreign makes has increased greatly, but I disagree with the notion it had anything to do with fuel economy. In some cases sure, but I would bet in most it was price and features, which you got a lot more for less than a comparable domestic auto.

Let's not forget quality... the quality of the Hondas, Nissans, VW's and Toyota was far and away better than the US makers were providing as well..

But in the 1970's when the gas shortage hit us hard, it was the little Vdubs that and nissans and toyotas that everyone was buying and it was indeed because of fuel savings...

Mac the top ten selling cars & trucks so far in 2008 are

1. Ford F-150
2 Chevy Silverado
3. Toyota Camery
4. Honda Accord
5. Honda Civic
6 Toyota Corolla
7. Nissan Altima
8. Chevy Impala
9 Dodge Ram
10. Ford Focus


I don't believe any of those cars/trucks are in the top ten JUST because of gas mileage. Heck GM offers the more models that get over 30 mpg than any other manufacturer out there.

It suprises me that the Malibu isn't on the list. I think last years model was as sharp a car as GM has made.

During the spring and summer, we couldn't keep G-6's in stock, we were even buying them from out of state dealers.

INFRASTRUCTURE is the thing US lack.

how are we on fuel efficient vehicles? # 1 right?

its IS a bad thing GW took his stance on C02 and american industry, way to demoralize a nation

sit back and watch how its done OBAMA 08