DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The piling on of Crennel continues........

Well, Phil's right. All he can do is pick the players....what McDork left out is that Romeo had input into those picks also. Phil has no input on gameday. It's up to the coaches to get the players to perform, or implement schemes to best utilize their talents. That's where the failure lies.

I was actually thinking Big Ted. But I agree with everything else you said.

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That was the answer.

Does anyone know the question, because that's important, and often MORE important than the answer so that it can all be put in perspective.

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thats exactly what i was thinking....

probably was something like......did you tell rac to give harrison more carries? start quinn?

well i found the interview....

heres what the radio guys said

I'm not sure if i know we are trying to accomplish as a team...jamal can run the ball, i thought he should have been running more...nobody looked inspired...your job is to give the coach the tools....all the national guys, all the experts i talk to say we have the tools, and thats your job as the gm...my concern then is on the field, now i know you have to be careful, and your not gonna call someone out, and i respect that, but thats what the fan is thinking...at least i think....


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i fail to see how that is stating anything but fact.....phil imo has let rac do his job.....rac's results will be judged from there....



and as far as the one that's about hiring guys to do a job....he mentions the coaching staff first, and then the players.....so i would guess he's talking about both.....

Spin it however you want. But these statements by Phil are not the same tone as his previous ones. Underside of bus, meet Romeo Crennel.

It's obvious you have more love for Phil than RAC. As do most people on here. What that doesn't mean is that Randy Lerner does. Rip the media all you like but I see nothing in this article that is incorrect. Has it occurred to anyone that perhaps the writer knows both people well enough that he's trying to point out subtly that Phil is not quite as innocent in all this as he seems. Or wants to seem. Or is viewed by the team.

I said it before and I'll say it again......I'd be amazed if Romeo doesn't get the axe but after the Winslow incident and the email screwup Phil is just one small mistake from a one way ticket on the Turnpike.

Does anyone know the question, because that's important, and often MORE important than the answer so that it can all be put in perspective.

The response about him selecting the players and Rac coaching/making decisions seperates him from Rac...it's putting the performance in the coaches hands..Now where's Peen, who always claims those two are closely tied together???

yeah, but the context of the article is "rac is done because savage said this"

when in reality the coaches actions determine the coaches fate....

go listen to that whole interview...savge knows he's gonna get evaluated.....he even says that every losing team gets evaluated....it goes with the territory...

this is a classic example of a reporter spinning something to get the result they they feel is right.....

they might just evaluate rac, and find out that he's worth keeping.....i doubt it, but who knows...

Toad wrote:

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And that's the last quote I'm going to respond to, because there's nothing of credence here.

If that former player thinks we're running "the exact same defense" then we know why he's a former player.

Game over man, game over.

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Exactly. The only similarity between our defense and the Patriots is we both run a 3-4. The comparison ends right there.
No team runs a 3-4 like we do. The "No Pressure" defense that is RAC's pride and joy is his own creation.

Crennel puts blame on himself

But good month may save his job
Friday, November 28, 2008
By STEVE DOERSCHUK
STEVE.DOERSCHUK@CANTONREP.COM


BEREA Romeo Crennel won't back down from the finger-pointing. He points the finger at himself.

What of the growing number of players saying they are largely to blame for the wreck of the 2008 season?

"They are incorrect, because I am the head coach, and the buck stops at my desk," Crennel said stoically. "It is my charge. If we don't win games, it's on me."

More than once during an interview this week, owner Randy Lerner used the word "accountability" as it relates to his key employees. Lerner never gave a clear indication Crennel will pay with his job. Indications are that Crennel's only hope is a dramatic charge through December, starting with Sunday's game against the rampaging Colts.

Another of Lerner's key words, "continuity," gives Crennel hope that an improbable 5-0 finish — or perhaps 4-1, which would leave the final record at 8-8 — would save his job.

Wouldn't that represent growth in his ability to make adjustments under pressure?

Lerner won't touch the Bill Cowher question with a 10-foot goalpost, but he directly says he has not decided Crennel's fate. Keeping Crennel would erase the adjustment period to Cowher, or the added turbulence of switching to a college coach, such as Urban Meyer.

The continuity issue ties into what Lerner thinks could be a strong 2009. Possibly a playoff team?

"Yeah," Lerner said, "I sense that it could be."

What must happen to make it so?

"Win," Lerner said. "They've got to live up to their potential."

Few see much 2008 potential for a 4-7 Browns team that staggered out of the gate at 0-3, briefly awoke, and is back on the skids, in a 1-3 slump.

Captain Hank Fraley, though, sounds serious when he talks about playing for something.

"Hey, if we win out, we're 9-7, and you never know about tie-breakers," the veteran center said. "Why can't other teams go on losing streaks?"

Recent evidence, however, shows that coaches on the hot seat usually take rocky rides to the end of the road.

Several examples:

• Chris Palmer got a spark of hope when his 2000 Browns, with Crennel as his defensive coordinator, beat Bill Belichick's Patriots to improve to 3-8. After that was followed by an 0-5 skid, owner Al Lerner preferred to give Palmer one more year. President Carmen Policy preferred Butch Davis.

• Tom Coughlin's late 1990s glory days in Jacksonville, which helped Palmer get the Cleveland job, had faded by 2002. The Jaguars weren't in awful shape after 11 games, at 5-6. Then they lost a 25-23 groaner to Pittsburgh. Then Cleveland's Tim Couch heaved a prayer to Quincy Morgan to sink the Jags, 21-20. It was part of a 1-4 finish, and sayonara.

• Dick LeBeau hoped for a miracle when his 2002 Bengals fell to 2-8 with a home loss at Cleveland. A 1-5 finish expedited the lateral to Marvin Lewis.

• After Butch Davis quit when the Browns fell to 4-7, interim head coach Terry Robiskie campaigned hard for the big job. Four straight losses erased his slim chances.

• Baltimore's Brian Billick was 4-7 at this point last year, coming off a 3-13 year. When he lost his next four games, not even beating Pittsburgh in the season finale could save him.

Meanwhile, Lerner insists the remaining games against the Colts, Titans, Eagles, Bengals and Steelers count for something.

"The rest of he season is completely relevant," the owner says.

What sorts of things must Crennel do to save his job?

"I don't want to get into criteria," Lerner said. "I don't mean to not answer your question."

You do know that just because I don't agree with you doesn't make me wrong or stupid, right?

I always love the way when a guy writes something that people disagree with or don't like the writer hates the Browns or has a loose screw. Could it be that he's just got a different opinion? Naw....that can't be it.

Frankly, since Pat worked in Berea for a while (for clevelandbrowns.com) I'd tend to believe his "take" on matters a little more than yours. Hey, maybe he's got some inside info like half a dozen of the guys on here claim to have.....

Lerner won't touch the Bill Cowher question with a 10-foot goalpost, but he directly says he has not decided Crennel's fate. Keeping Crennel would erase the adjustment period to Cowher, or the added turbulence of switching to a college coach, such as Urban Meyer

WHAT??GMAB..even if I favor another HC..I certainly don't want any parts of a college coach(save one or two), let alone Meyer..
Let this thing play out jope Lerner makes a good decision in the offseason....

Again, I say you do realize that just because I do not agree with you does not make me wrong, correct?

I know you fancy yourself the voice of truth, justice and the American Way for the board but excuse me if I read each article and make up my own mind.

I happen to enjoy most of Pat's stuff. And if you don't that is fine. Just try to rein in the urge to tell me how to think. Because it's really not necessary.

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• Dick LeBeau hoped for a miracle when his 2002 Bengals fell to 2-8 with a home loss at Cleveland.

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How could he have a home loss at Cleveland?

I am well aware of your rights. And I am hardly touchy. You're just not used to people disagreeing with you.

Obviously, you can say and think what you want about almost anything on here. And intent is a hard thing to judge over the Internet. However, I get the distinct feeling that you feel the constant need to educate the rest of us to your way of looking at things. I have no problem with you expressing your opinions. In fact, until recently I enjoyed reading most of your posts. It's the tone that bothers me. Your posts feel more like a sermon from the mountain top than an opinion.

But it really doesn't bother me enough to continue to argue about it. Write on, Reverend........

"Meanwhile, Lerner insists the remaining games against the Colts, Titans, Eagles, Bengals and Steelers count for something."

Without a doubt if we come on strong...win 4 games out of that 5 and the last being a MUST of the 4 - I can see a sit back and reassess this HC change.

And I am so glad to here the words - Continuity from Randy...even if we do change I'm sure that would have meaning and a Big Variable in the decision process. We aren't going to blow up the entire program even if we make a change at the HC part. It would mean a little Re-Organization process but the personnell should be fitting into the system.

This also tells me he's been pretty happy with Savage's personnel decisions and a must in my book in any change in the HC department to come with Savage heavy in the decision process.

I really like Randy as the owner, and have thanked him from day one in this process.

JMHO

I agree.

If we can all of a sudden win now, we could have won 4 weeks ago.

He's done

Sunday Special: Crennel's time about up

Lerner all but says so; owner should re-evaluate advisers

Sunday, November 30, 2008
BY TODD PORTER
TODD.PORTER@CANTONREP.COM

R

It will be fitting when the Browns season ends in Pittsburgh on a cold December day three days after Christmas.

The Steelers will — once again — be playing in a game that matters. The Browns will — once again — be finishing out the string.

Owner Randy Lerner has some decisions to make. After sitting down with Lerner and a dozen and a half or so reporters earlier this week, there were a couple of observations I made of Lerner.

• He cares about his franchise, his family's business, which he inherited upon his father's death. Lerner didn't want to own the Browns, but he has a duty to make sure the franchise is operated as his late father, Al Lerner, would want it.

• Lerner has made up his mind, at least half of it, as it relates to what to do with Head Coach Romeo Crennel and General Manager Phil Savage.

• Crennel is as good as gone. Don't feel bad for the head coach. Crennel is a nice man, perhaps too honorable to be a head coach in the NFL. Crennel reportedly is making $4 million a season through 2011. If Lerner fires him, Crennel and Lerner can negotiate the settlement, but Crennel is due $12 million — a nice consolation prize.

• Savage is under contract until 2012. Financial terms of his deal are unknown, but a fair estimate would be at least $2 million a year.

• Money will not play a part in any decision the owner makes, Lerner said. But that's a lot of dough to eat. If Lerner rids himself of both Savage and Crennel, it could cost him as much as $20 million. The 2009 economic forecast is worse than 2008. NFL teams will take a hit in advertising and suite sales. At some point, money does play a part. And that's before he hires, say Bill Cowher, at the $9 million a season Cowher would want.

• Several times, Lerner made references to having talent on the roster. That's a feather in Savage's cap. A couple of times Lerner made reference to the players underperforming, that's a shovel of dirt on Crennel.

Ultimately, Lerner will evaluate the final five games for what they are. But things already have turned bizarre. Crennel already has said the 2009 quarterback will be Brady Quinn. But what if Derek Anderson puts up 250 yards a game and Crennel is not around. Will Quinn still start?

That's the kind of thing that hurts Crennel's credibility. If you want to point a finger to when the wheels came off, the decision to bench Anderson, a captain coming off a Pro Bowl season, is a good start. I think Crennel began to lose the locker room then.

All Crennel tried to do in making a QB change was buy himself another season in Cleveland.

Lerner said he alone won't make those decisions. He has people he trusts. One of those, he revealed, is former NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue. Others are Bernie Kosar and Jim Brown.

For the sake of the organization's future, hope that Lerner is listening more to the likes of Tagliabue and less to that of Kosar and Brown, both of whom have agendas as it relates to the team. And no offense to either fan favorite, but do they know much more about running an NFL franchise than Joe Six Pack?

COWHER TO CLEVELAND

For months, there have been rumors that Cowher already has purchased a home in the Greater Cleveland area. That has not been substantiated, and Cowher said last week he was leaning toward not making a return to the NFL. Of course, Cowher would say that, probably on his agent's advice, to drive his price up.

But I asked Lerner if the organization "has made any overtures to Cowher in any way whatsoever," and his answer was point-blank, "no."

READING INTO IT

Lerner feels a major blunder for the team is it has not established an identity. There is absolutely nothing the Browns can hang their hat on since 1999. Part of the reason is the team has blown every decision it's made at quarterback. The NFL is a quarterback-driven league.

Lerner was asked for his thoughts on the QB change.

"I have withheld my opinions on those things, going back to my governing philosophy," said Lerner, who has taken a hands-off approach. "If I'm talking about my opinion of a player, then how can I hold a coach accountable? I've got to be out of that — and really out of it. It's why I don't watch film and put in a reaction to a play.

"To have that point of view and to mean it ... you've got to stick with it. Otherwise you just confuse people and send mixed messages."

ULTIMATELY ...

It seems Lerner is going to give himself another opportunity to get this thing right. If Savage gets blamed for something, he should have made a decision on the team's quarterback before this season. He signed Anderson to a modest contract, about an average salary for an NFL starting quarterback. He agreed to that deal to make it easy to trade Anderson, who's due a roster bonus in March.

The Browns should have traded Anderson in the offseason when his stock was as high as it was going to get.

Quinn is going to be in Cleveland, and he's going to be the QB of this team next year.

Time will tell if the Browns made the right decision, a decision that will be hung around Savage's neck because a new head coach is going to be saddled with Quinn regardless.

WHAT ABOUT QUINN?

The team loves his leadership qualities and the way he handles a huddle. There is no questioning Quinn's attitude and the intangibles he brings.

But there are some doubts about his physical abilities to be a marquee quarterback. Quinn's arm strength is something of a question. Maybe that's one of the reasons the Browns protected him and called mostly short routes.

Little weight should be put into Quinn's finger injury for his awful performance against Houston. He still had the injured digit when he completed a 40-plus yard pass to Braylon Edwards, right?

Thanks for the read.

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The reality is that Savage has been better at acquiring free agents than acquiring talent through the draft, and we can't play the free agent game forever. The numbers will eventually implode the cap aspect of the organization.

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This is a very accurate assessment of Phil. If it weren't for FA Phils drafts would have done little to improve the talent level of this team. For that I hold Phil somewhat accountable for the state of affairs on the field.

"I can't, and I'll tell ya why."

Ya told me...but nothing close to the why? Just words from somebody who wishes to believe...THAT WINNING WOULD MAKE RAC LOOK BAD

"I'm also elated to see you acknowledge that a change of HC doesn't necessarily mean a complete teardown. You didn't used to feel that way."

In some past debates it was mostly with people who WANTED complete change...No more 3-4, change this change that, Get rid of Tucker, Chud, Daisher...CHANGE - And would most definitely put us on at the least a "three year program".

Continuity would be very hard especially when you are getting rid of somebody - there has to be a reason that you are firing RAC so some change is definitely in order.

Stick with the 3-4 and go to a more ATTACK MODE? Thats change I would like to see.

GO to a 4-3 Cover 2 D? Well we would have the 2 DTs but NO DE's and only the Will LB taken care of

Offense...changing the OC again with a new HC??? OL coach...usually those doing (OL Coach) well more than any other coach stays with the new regime!

I mean there is a fine line. Possibly I am sort of thinking the Cowher possibilities isn't that bad as in bringing change and yet possibly continuity?

My feelings really hasn't changed. What has changed is that prior to this the odds of RAC being fired were under 50%...now it is much higher than 50%. No, my feelings didn't change more so the reality of the situation.

But what does RANDY do if RAC wins out. How do you fire him after that amazing turn around and quite frankly if he gets this team to Win...and beat the Colts, Titans, Eagles and Steelers all Playoff contenders - He deserves to stay and pretty much would state that we don't need "CHANGE"

JMHO

Toad, I heard someone on TV today make reference to a comment by Savage that said something about with the coaching decisions being made he should just call plays and double his salary. I haven't seen these comments in print and find it hard to believe he actually said them.

Can you give me any insight?

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''If I'm going to get involved in those decisions, then I may as well put a headset on and double my salary.''

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The way the quote was used it was very misleading. I got the impression (so did my dad) that Savage was calling out Crennel. That's not what I get out of it when reading the whole article.

Ultimately, Lerner will evaluate the final five games for what they are. But things already have turned bizarre. Crennel already has said the 2009 quarterback will be Brady Quinn. But what if Derek Anderson puts up 250 yards a game and Crennel is not around. Will Quinn still start?

Things really landed on Bizzaro World..now that DA's OUT , we know the Browns can't win with Noodle-Dorsey..now does that further cement things /
I would still say so..
I wouldn't worry too much about the starting QB spot..because it would appear the first agenda is a new coach..then he assesses what the team looks like and what he wants to do.

Today I saw a coach give up on a game before it was out of reach.

Then I saw the defense give up one play later, and the game truly was out of reach.

I saw a coach not challenge a play that would have been the biggest gain of the day when we had nothing to lose.

I as a fan can't accept that, especially when I look east and I see a fanbase that has a love affair with their team.

Romeo Crennel is a complete, utter, total buffoon as a head coach. I don't even want him to finish out the year anymore. It'd be better for our collective sanity if he were gone tomorrow if not today.

Am I emotional? YES. But I think I have good reason to be. We didn't do everything we could to win today.

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We didn't do everything we could to win today.

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Story of the season, I'll never understand being down 2 touchdowns with less than 10 minutes to go and kicking a f.g. that keeps you behind by yes....2 touchdowns...

The guy makes some of the worst in game decisions I've ever seen, and never improves, we see the same B.S. week after week. The only improvement he's made over the last 4 years in his in-game coaching is that he finally stopped with the desperation challenges.

I'm not talking about specifically that play. Although, why not challenge that play?

But I've seen more than just that play that should have been challenge, and Romeo doesn't. What irritates the heck out of me is when there is a questionable call, and, we get down to 3-4 seconds on the playclock, and we call a timeout! That's so irritating. If we're going to call a timeout, why not just challenge the questionable play!? Roemo does that often.

He's an idiot as a head coach.

Anyone who doesn't see that by now is blind.

I'm at the point where I fire him once he gets off the plane. What bugs me is I knew we were undermanned and we would probably lose, but we didn't take the necessary steps to TRY to win the game.

Dude, I know that you are young and passionate, but also impetuous as I was a few years ago.

I want Romeo gone too, but it really wouldn't do any good to fire him with 3 games left.