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Fact is Lewis is done.
I don't think he's done. If we were fighting for the division, you would probably see a different Lewis out there. I suppose that might be a negative...that he's not fighting as hard since we're going to be home for the playoffs. Although, he might have more left in the tank for next year.
I don't know.
I do see what you see too......there are holes but he tends to run into the nearest linebacker for 2-3 yards when a little dancing might pop a longer run.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I agree All of this goes in hand with my 'Jamal Lewis' post, stating how he just isn't getting things done and his body and age are getting the best of him. I predicted 5 weeks ago, before the Broncos game that JL will not get a 100 yd rushing game this year and so far it has come true. This is unfortunate. If he remains, which I think he will, he needs to accept the fact that he will lose many touches to a future replacement and he is here more as a mentor than the go to guy. I wonder if he can accept that.
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Regarding Lewis, I'm going to say that a ton of folks are generating theories as to why his production is down.
He's old, his legs are going, he's not playing with heart or fire or desire, the season's over so he's saving himself...........
It's all BS.
The offensive line has played pretty iffy for much of the year, and just outright chitty the rest of it. No back, ESPECIALLY one that runs between the tackles, is going to look good when 4/5ths of the line is playing like crap. NEVERMIND the FACT that we haven't had any passing game because of injuries, lack of cohesion, and simple spotty play. 
Titans, Giants, Redskins, Ravens, Ravens, Steelers, Steelers, Eagles, Cowboys......
Know what those teams have in common? THEY ARE ALL TOP-10 DEFENSES!
Know what else? The Ravens, Steelers, and Titans are #1, #2, and #3 in the NFL.
YOU GETTIN' IT YET PEOPLE?!?!?!
Bills 11th, Colts 13th, Jags 15th.
HAS IT SUNK IN YET?!?!!
When you combine bad O-line play with top defenses, you get what you see on the field. It has NOTHING to do with any hokey theories about Lewis.
A few weeks ago, people ........and you know who you are.........tried to say Harrison had what Lewis didn't, so he needs to get the carries. Well, has anyone noticed he ain't done chit either?!?!
Stop with the knee-jerk decisions and look at the reasons behind what's going on. Jezus!
Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, is saying Lewis is the same guy he was five years ago. Hell, I defended him while he was still on the Rats by indicating his OFFENSIVE LINE had gone to crap, yet still said he wasn't the same guy he was in '01. Lewis does his damage when he can find a hole and get to running downhill. Right now, he's making moves just to get back to the LOS 
Stop worrying about the wrong things people. Lewis isn't the problem. A bunch of iffy linemen combined with no receiving core from the TE's on up are the REAL problem. The sooner everyone realizes it, the sooner it'll be easier to understand how to fix the problem.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Everyone? It's evident that the right side is crappy..with Hadnot/Shaffer there's no roadgrater nor a good pass blocker..teams are stacking and crowding the middle because Fraley can't handle that, plus he has to help Hadnot..
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Comments?
Wish I was better - I checked the only QB thread still left on the board and didn't see it on that one.
But soon after the Announced Switch...there was a comment in somebody's ARTICLE stating that an anonymous OLman (or it was player???) stated: and then they had the quote where he was a little PO'd at the switch at QB and went over and beyond in defending DA...it was later pointed out to many on the board that it was Fraley who spoke out. I guess many with secret information??? but I believe them. It would be nice for me to paste the exact quote...but it was a bit angry which left me with a bad feeling and then...poof the OL started doing their worst???
On purpose? I don't think so. Not caring??? maybe. Quit??? maybe. Not the same.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Peen, RAC is, and always has been, a class act and a team guy. I can see him doing what he thinks is best for the team and not for his personal situation. He will not be unemployed for long, as he is an outstanding DC.
I could also point out that canning any coach in midseason and replacing them with an interim coach could lead to the same concerns as you hav mentioned about keeping RAC....even moreso, to be honest. An interim coach would be trying to make a splash so he is considered for the vacant job.
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Extremely reasonable to think an average fan could have a 4-9 record?  Oh, you were SERIOUS?!?!?!?!?! Wow, just.....wow. I'm sorry, but I doubt that it's much more reasonable to believe that the average fan couldn't have won a SINGLE game this year with this team. I have been coaching since 1991 and am coaching at the college level. All that means is that I KNOW that I couldn't have had as good a record as the HC of this team as RAC has had. To think otherwise really means there's no point in debating this with you. Wow....I just can't believe you typed that. I seriously hope you were joking.
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Quote:
Extremely reasonable to think an average fan could have a 4-9 record? Oh, you were SERIOUS?!?!?!?!?! Wow, just.....wow. I'm sorry, but I doubt that it's much more reasonable to believe that the average fan couldn't have won a SINGLE game this year with this team. I have been coaching since 1991 and am coaching at the college level. All that means is that I KNOW that I couldn't have had as good a record as the HC of this team as RAC has had. To think otherwise really means there's no point in debating this with you. Wow....I just can't believe you typed that. I seriously hope you were joking.
I know I couldn't gameplan even close to a professional coach...
But on gameday? I wouldn't be surprised if an educated fan could make better gameday decisions on when to challenge a play, when to go for it, when to call for a field goal, etc.
Would an educated fan know how to gameplan during the week? Not at all, but come on...some of the decisions made on gameday have been SO out of whack and lack sense that it makes my head spin.
I don't think anyone's criticizing the work he puts in during the week to prepare a gameplan (even though IMO that leaves a lot to be desired). Anyone who thinks they can do that from their couch is dumb. But gameday? I can see where people are coming from...
Last edited by Ammo; 12/08/08 07:15 PM.
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No offense, Ammo, but there is a WORLD of difference between being on the sideline with millions watching and sitting on the couch. Also, some of those decisions are the HCs (example when to challenge a call).
The thing is, gameplanning is a part of the HC job. The average fan couldn't even run a practice, let alone prepare for one game.....let alone for a season.
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Easy to see how a house of cards can tumble with the slightest breeze, isn't it?
The OL is symptomatic of this team on all 3 sides of the ball... no real depth anywhere. There is such a huge dropoff from #1's to #2's that even ONE injury changes the entire complexion of that squad.
From almost Day One, I could see what Phil Savage was trying to do. When I finally wrapped my brain around the enormity of the task he had, I tempered my expectations accordingly.
The biggest difference between this year's team and last: health. Pure and simple.
Here's how the dominoes fall:
Late pre-season injuries lead to personnel shuffles right before reg season. Chemistry is lost. Play quality suffers... both from a drop in talent level and lack of prep time. As a result: diminished play from ALL THREE SQUADS.
1. DL can't produce nearly as well without Robaire... run D still suffers even with Rogers in there (Anybody still questioning Rogers' heart for the game? If so, check yourself in for a psych eval...)
2. OL is half what it was when Tuck was in there. Holes are few, far between and smaller than they were last year. Lewis' numbers plummet. Lose about 1.5 seconds of pass protection, and EVERY QB's numbers fall... including QB's themselves. Down goes Quinn. Down goes DA. Dorsey looks like he's now playing hurt, after one full game. Less pocket time, passes come out earlier... sometimes before receivers even get to their breaks.
3. Key wedge blockers gone on ST: Cribbs begins to look absolutely human. Even without the game-changing "coast-to-coast" runbacks, we suffer poorer average field position per game.
Dominoes, folks. Sometimes it's a good thing to back away from the microscope and just see the Big Pic for what it is: we're an unfinished team with holes that got exposed (big time) this year. Even if we'd enjoyed the health we had in '07, we were still going to be hard-pressed to equal our season record from last year. It could have happened, but it would have been much tougher, grittier, and uglier than last year's games. As such, we just didn't have the horses to win this race in '08.
Was last year a mirage? Nope. It was a surprise, to be sure- but no mirage. We were the best mediocre team in the NFL last year, and had a schedule that placed us on the field with actual bad teams. This year, we never were that team from the start... and we were still scheduled against ALL the top-shelf opponents.
I keep coming back to Phil's 5-year plan to reassure myself that this team will get more necessary parts this offseason. To dump him right now would be to repeat the typical Cleveland Pro Sports mistakes of the past; build a semi-finished house, then change contractors just before the house was completed.
No wonder we Cleveland fans are always left out in the cold come December and January.
.02
p.s. and for those of you who think I've been ignoring the coaching, think again. I believe that much of Chud's play-calling is a direct result of the players he has to work with. Dude didn't just go from stud to dud in one season... and I don't remember reading any news articles about an off-season lobotomy. Tucker? 1st year as DC. Quality players may not abound, but at least I see his squad plating hard to keep us in games. Romeo? Stay or go... [shrugs]. He's no worse (or better) than he was last year. From my p.o.v. his decisions haven't helped us, but his personnel didn't help themselves, either. I'm just one of those Dawgs who'd rather give it another season to KNOW for sure that this year wasn't the mirage.
My bottom-line belief: This team got hit with The Perfect Storm right at the end of trainig camp. A more mature, seasoned team may have risen above it, but not the current Browns. They needed ALL the cards to fall exactly right to equal last year's performances, and all the pertinent cards fell exactly WRONG. That's why I WOULDN'T be too terribly upset to see the same coaching staff/FO next year. To me, it's one year too soon.
Let the flaming begin...
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Not to mention that the coach has to make those decisions on the spot, often without the aide of replay.. and definitely without the aide of the minutes of hindsight and review that your boneheaded announcers and fans are priveleged to have. Those decisions have to be made before the next play is run.
As for the Cribbs to Edwards pass... anyone notice that they didn't bother showing any other camera angles? Anyone else notice that the dumbass color-commentary guy that didn't know his butt from his elbows never mentioned that there wasn't going to be enough evidence to overturn the call on the field? Anyone else notice that guy talking out his butt saying incredibly moronic things all game long?
As for Fraley.. he hasn't been what he was last year, and perhaps that's because Tucker isn't beside him? Rex Hadn't sure isn't doing much. Holes on that side seem to close REALLY quick, if they even open.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Extremely reasonable to think an average fan could have a 4-9 record? Oh, you were SERIOUS?!?!?!?!?! Wow, just.....wow. I'm sorry, but I doubt that it's much more reasonable to believe that the average fan couldn't have won a SINGLE game this year with this team. I have been coaching since 1991 and am coaching at the college level. All that means is that I KNOW that I couldn't have had as good a record as the HC of this team as RAC has had. To think otherwise really means there's no point in debating this with you. Wow....I just can't believe you typed that. I seriously hope you were joking.
Let me clarify - A coin with "yes" on one side and "no" on the other would have done as well as RAC.
A Magic 8-ball.
Dice.
RAC isn't doing squat game planning. His OC & DC are. He has dozens of people handling all the specifics. His job isn't to make sure the locker room has enough towels It's to set an attitude for the team, set the pace and tone of camp, in short lead.
He doesn't.
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Really? You have a link? If not, do you have a source? I'm not going to ask you who your source is, but obviously you don't have one. Othewise, you would know that RAC, or any HC, does FAR more than you are saying. As to RAC not leading, right......what you're saying is in direct contradtiction with everything that has been reported and that I've heard. He is a VERY respected leader. That is not one of his flaws as a HC. To flip a coin, you would have to narrow down the decision to two choices. You haven't seen a playbook or actually been involved with a practice, that much is obvious. Kinda tough to flip a coin with about 300 choices to sift through in 40 seconds. 
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You don't need a link to see the obvious - he's a bad leader and a bad HC - that's why he's getting fired. (nope, I don't have a link that says he's getting fired - but yet I still know that he is. ) Quote:
You haven't seen a playbook or actually been involved with a practice, that much is obvious. Kinda tough to flip a coin with about 300 choices to sift through in 40 seconds.
Actually it looks like you've never seen an NFL game. There are not ANY - ZERO - None HC's looking through a 300 play playbook in the 40 second play clock. 
In fact, very few HC's even call the plays. You can learn more at www.nfl.com/football101
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OK, so he is a bad leader because you say so. Got it. 
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Well something is certainly off with this team. Either:
1) We have no talent. And the GM needs to go. 2) We have talent and they aren't executing, which is a coaching problem. 3) The game plan sucks so bad that no amount of talent can overcome it.
So you pick, which is it. Or is it a combination.
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There's already a rumor in NY, that if Romeo gets fired, the NY Jets will try and pick him up for their defensive coordinator. He and Mangini have roots together. Link
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I have no qualms about RAC being a class act....none.
Just so we have the record straight.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
Well something is certainly off with this team. Either:
1) We have no talent. And the GM needs to go. 2) We have talent and they aren't executing, which is a coaching problem. 3) The game plan sucks so bad that no amount of talent can overcome it.
So you pick, which is it. Or is it a combination.
Go for the combo in the corner pocket Eve. 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Quote:
There's already a rumor in NY, that if Romeo gets fired, the NY Jets will try and pick him up for their defensive coordinator. He and Mangini have roots together.
I was actually thinking that Romeo would end up in either Miami or NE.. NE's D is ranked 29th or something like that.. That's a perfect fit for RAC...
Given that Parcells is the GM in Miami,, it's more of just a connection they have.
I suppose the Jets thing is just as real a possibility.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
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I actually would love to coach...lol but In my dreams I always see it very hard to get the players to actually believe in my program... 
Also the media keeps making fun of Randy for making the decision and my dream just ends there. 
On RAC having a job already in NY...not quite sure how this works...but I'm sure Randy would have to buy out of the contract. But usually in said buy out there are conditions. In other Industries the condition would be...OK we got 4 years left on the contract - I'll give you the entire sum....BUTTT, in that 4 years you can't get a job in the NFL or else you must return the portion of that money back?
So I don't know if we give him Package "A" or Package "B" - one being a decent sum and would allow RAC to coach in the NFL immediately. The other being a much bigger sum...but he must stay out???
Again not sure how it works in the NFL but since Coaches don't have a Union I can only ASSume its on the level of Big Business which would have those/or something close to it in the BUY OUT.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I'm sure its already negotiated into his contract and I've never heard of an NFL coach with a non-compete clause in their contract...
yebat' Putin
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Coach - I don't understand why you're so condescending in all your posts. I've said it before and I'll say it again... it does NOT take someone with coaching experience to recognize the signs of bad leadership.
RAC's players say they love him and want to play hard for him, which you seem to think qualifies him as a leader. Yet, the personalities on this team are out of control. Yet, when it comes game time, his players do the exact opposite. They don't play as hard as they could, they don't give the effort, they refuse to fight and they flat out quit when the going gets tough. I don't care if they're all in a great big group hug in the locker room after a 20 point beating, that is NOT leadership.
Leadership is reflected on the field. If a team is well lead and well coached, they'll live up to their potential and actually rise above it on occasion. This team is so underwhelming that people are running out of words to describe it. Not only do they underachieve and play incredibly inconsistently, they wilt in the face of most competition.
You don't need an inside source or coaching experience to see THAT every Sunday and that reflects directly on the coach, whether you like it or not.
We're... we're good?
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Todd Porter: Crennel helps create difficult circumstances By Todd Porter CantonRep.com staff writer Posted Dec 08, 2008 @ 09:53 PM BEREA — There are times when I admire Romeo Crennel. There are times when it’s hard not to respect a man who’s being asked about his replacement even before he’s gone. These are the circumstances in which Crennel must coach the Browns through three meaningless games to end the season. But these are the circumstances Crennel has helped create. Because for every one time Crennel does or says something that makes one stop and wonder if he can work in Cleveland, he’ll say or do two other things that makes one wonder whether he should even finish out the string. Like Monday ... “I think the circumstances on this team have changed as we look at it and what we have to do is, we have to realize the limitations that we have to work with,” Crennel said. He thinks this? He needed to see the tape of the Tennessee game to think this? Crennel should have known what all of you knew before the Titans ever kicked off to the Browns on Sunday. If Crennel didn’t know his team was limited with a third-string quarterback in Ken Dorsey before this game, well, all he’s doing is confirming the magnitude of clumsy coaching that has been the 2008 season. Crennel wants to tweak and adjust things for this mega Monday night game in Philadelphia. Again, he’s a week late with this idea. Dorsey is who we thought he was. So, too, is Joshua Cribbs. Crennel wasn’t convinced until film review Monday. “It looked like Cribbs was a spark,” Crennel said. “I think we’ll have to give him a chance to be more of a spark and try to manage his other duties as well.” This is why Crennel should no longer be the head coach of the Browns. He has awful game-day instincts. It was fairly obvious to anyone with a feel for the game that Cribbs was the best thing Cleveland’s offense had going Sunday. He got seven touches. That’s it. Figuring that out now is like realizing there isn’t enough money in the bank account to cover the last check you just wrote. Crennel is coaching in a tough environment. But he’s, in part, responsible for that environment. Sure, the Browns have had injuries and lost key personnel for either the entire season or portions of it. Yes, Joe Jurevicius would help. Ryan Tucker would bolster the right side of the offensive line that’s a sieve. Crennel can’t teach Braylon Edwards to catch; you would assume an NFL receiver just does it. But Crennel’s explanations after games are a big reason why Browns fans have either turned on the team or turned them off. There is nothing in there. It’s why rumors of Bill Cowher will perk up a Cleveland fan faster than the winds off Lake Erie. For goodness sake it seems like there’s a litmus test going on now with Marty Schottenheimer. Wasn’t he in a rocking chair a week ago? Crennel isn’t responsible for the entire mess, but he is responsible for keeping it contained and making it smell good. He has failed at both, and that’s worse than failing on Sundays. Reach Repository sports writer Todd Porter at (330) 580-8340 or e-mail: todd.porter@cantonrep.com link
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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The Browns' problems this season are many. They center largely on personnel, and they showed in the 28-9 loss Sunday to the Tennessee Titans. Any team that gives up 235 yards rushing in a game and 145 yards per season has major issues and cannot win consistently, especially when it's trying to cobble together an offense with a third-string quarterback. Offensively, the three Pro Bowlers and one other standout who carried the offense last season (Derek Anderson, Braylon Edwards, Kellen Winslow and Jamal Lewis) are not near where they were a year ago. Neither is the right side of the offensive line, with tackle Kevin Shaffer having an off season and guard Rex Hadnot not as stout at the point of attack as Ryan Tucker. That's a dropoff from half the offense. Combine the issues and the results are what they are: a 4-9 record and a team stumbling to the finish line. Other teams are going through the same kind of season. The Jacksonville Jaguars are 4-9, the San Diego Chargers 5-8 and the Green Bay Packers 5-8. There is anger and disappointment, but Jack Del Rio, Norv Turner and Mike McCarthy will be back coaching in 2009 — barring some major change of an owner's mind. In 2005, the Titans were 4-12. Coach Jeff Fisher returned. The Titans now are 12-1. Teams have bad years. They can survive them. But teams that lack a long-term plan and a vision cannot survive the fitful habit of restarting every three or four years. Because that just sets everyone back to the starting point one more time. Browns owner Randy Lerner must take all this into account as he plans for 2009. Already rumors of coach Romeo Crennel's successor have hit the airwaves. Marty Schottenheimer threw some chilly water on the notion of his return as coach this week on Sirius NFL Radio, but he did leave open the possibility of accepting a front office job. He spoke in relation to working with Bill Cowher, but the notion of a Schottenheimer-type football guy in the front office has merit. At a minimum, the Browns need a stronger voice and leader — whether it's working with General Manager Phil Savage or not. Savage has done some good work picking players, but like any personnel guy he has had his misses. Lately, though, Savage has sounded more like a man interested in his turf than bringing the team together. He went on the radio to say he was only responsible for picking the 53-man roster, that how they were used was up to the coaches. He said the same thing the previous day to the team. It's something everyone knew, but saying it the way Savage did was unnecessary and came across like he was stabbing Crennel in the back while trying to save his own job. This does not mean criticism of Crennel is unwarranted. His 24-37 record is poor. Like any coach, he has left himself open to second-guessing this season with his game-day decisions and his clock management. But some of the things he has been criticized for have been on impression. One example: Quarterback Derek Anderson wasting time at the end of the first half in Washington to run to the sideline to get a play because the helmet receiver wasn't working. Anderson had been told in practice to spike the ball or call a play if that happened. He didn't. Things happen in games. A few years back when he coached the New York Jets, Bill Parcells called for a halfback option pass from the 4-yard-line in a key game in Detroit. The back threw an interception, and the New York media screamed. Parcells started his explanation the next day with a sharp ''Look . . . '' He then pointedly said that the back had been told to throw the ball away if nobody was open, but he didn't. Things happen in games, Parcells said. Next question. Crennel accepted responsibility for Anderson in Washington. Just like he took the questions when Kellen Winslow was suspended, and just like he was the first person to speak about the e-mail. Character matters. Some of Crennel's other decisions relate to field goals vs. going for it on fourth down, those kind of things. It's fair to second-guess them. But even if Crennel had decided to go the popular way, the way fans wanted, it wouldn't have changed a single game outcome. The Browns would still be 4-9 and Kevin Shaffer would still be getting bull-rushed by Robert Mathis. They simply do not have the talent. Perhaps it's this reason the players have done very little to back up their coach by supporting him on the field. Not in Cleveland Last Sunday in Pittsburgh, Steelers coach Mike Tomlin went for a touchdown on fourth-and-goal from the 1 with his team down 10 in the fourth quarter. The situation cried field goal, but Tomlin went for it and the Steelers didn't make it. Instead of caving, the Steelers showed resolve. They stopped the Dallas Cowboys, got a short field and kicked a field goal and went on to win the game. Had the Steelers lost, questions would have been asked, but Tomlin's explanation would not have brought ridicule. The atmosphere there is different, and the team's support of the coach is unquestioned. In Cleveland, a coach can choose to go for a field goal down 28-7 and one would think the republic as we know it was burning. Questionable decision? Absolutely. But every game has them, including wins. The Browns blow leads and can't stop the run and struggle to cover receivers and can't run the ball. Any neutral observer knew before the season started that the Browns had major concerns in the secondary and at receiver. Those needs have shown in almost every game — and have been exacerbated by the inconsistencies of Braylon Edwards. During the struggles, Crennel has maintained the same bottom-line demeanor he had when the team was winning. Then it was a strength, because he trusted his players and they came through. This season, it's a weakness because the players he has trusted have let him down on many occasions. The Cowboys ran the final 10:13 off the clock. In two games, the Baltimore Ravens slammed the ball down the defense's throat and threw ''out'' patterns until they ran ''out'' of room. The Buffalo Bills ran wild, but the defense was bailed out by Phil Dawson's 56-yard field goal. Jay Cutler carved up the secondary. Sage Rosenfels played like Joe Montana. The Titans ran for 235 yards. When this happens over and over again there are problems. No guarantees Crennel has not used younger players more, like Martin Rucker and Beau Bell. Jerome Harrison? He has been playing through a hamstring issue since the Buffalo game. It seems time to see Rucker and Bell, but Crennel favors veterans. If the team favors a different approach, it will need a different coach. If it buys into the coach, it buys into his approach. The same coach used the same methods a year ago, and those results had fans chanting ''Super Bowl'' at the first practice. Now they are screaming for his head. In this town, the hysteria and anger seem to grow exponentially. The ''next'' guy — be it quarterback or coach or GM or receiver — is always perceived as the best. If the scuttlebutt is to be believed, Lerner will make a run at Cowher. But to believe Cowher would jump at coming to Cleveland when he might have other options buys into the arrogance of the cult of the orange helmet. Said arrogance ignores the reality of the situation to believe that anyone and everyone would walk on hot coals to coach the Browns. Imagine if Jerry Jones decides after the season he needs a bigger name coach and he calls Cowher. What team would he prefer? That being said, arguing against trying to hire Cowher is silly. But . . . there's no guarantee. Schottenheimer tried to downplay his return as coach, but left open front office work with Cowher. It's an intriguing pairing, and it's worth every consideration. But . . . there's no guarantee. Add a new voice The other option — and least likely because the fans might not accept it — is to keep the status quo with one addition: A stronger presence at the top of the football chart. A voice like Schottenheimer's with a title like President of Football would help. He could come in and merely ask questions about moves and decisions, and he could be the third voice between the coach and GM. Decisions about the roster would be made by three people, not one, and the coach would have more involvement. Schottenheimer also would give the coach more control over his coaching staff, which a head coach deserves. He's also an old-time, hard-nosed football guy, and he might even bring ideas to Crennel that could help. Accept it or move on A move like this would require a strong hand from Lerner. Savage would have to accept a reduced role and give up picking the ''53.'' If he chooses to go along, he could help the Browns win. If he doesn't, there are 31 other teams in the league where he could work. Same with Crennel if he chafes at a former coach in the front office, though based on this season it seems that he would not be the one doing the chafing. Parcells serves this kind of role with the Miami Dolphins. It has merit, and should be the minimum improvement the team makes this offseason. Schottenheimer could be the guy. Or perhaps Scott Pioli would leave the New England Patriots. Floyd Reese was involved in building the Titans and reportedly wants to get back with a team. He would be a strong addition. Others might become available. Strengthened continuity has advantages, especially over change with no clear direction what the result of change would be. But no matter what a stronger presence is needed in the front office. Lerner has to get this right, and to get it right, the outcry cannot guide the decision. Patrick McManamon can be reached at pmcmanamon@thebeaconjournal.com. Read his blog at http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/mcmanamon/. link
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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That's the best Pat Mac article I've seen in some time. It beats the pants off the Todd Porter (scab) article that preceeds it and is full of "fire the coach" agenda while pounding on only a couple of points since that's all he had.
That story should have had it's own thead. It's one I hope everyone gets to read. It's so damn full of common sense it will confound the majority of negative thinkers who post here.
#gmstrong
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It's a good article, but I'm not buying it. He brings up Fisher, Mcarthy, and Turner. it's true, those teams stink just as bad as us, but all 3 of those teams have been to the afc/nfc championship with the aforementioned coaches. Fisher led his team to the super bowl. Crennel isn't close to sniffing those accomplishments. If he did none probably would be calling for his head.
I'm not buying with the talent issue either. I do believe we have enough to be at least .500. going into last weeks game. I'm not counting the last 4 games since we're starting our 3rd stringer. no one could expect too many wins out of your 3rd stringer. Butch Davis did more with less his first two years. Look at Tampa for example, they have a 38 year old Qb, warric dunn, and antonio bryant starting for them, and all are playing well. Denver is playing with a 2nd team defense, and yet they're in 1st place. every team deals with injuries, and lack of talent in certain areas, but the good teams find a way to win.
Romeo must Go.
Last edited by Trella; 12/10/08 01:34 AM.
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I understand where your coming from but you I believe have left a few things out here. #1 The Bucs have vet players not rookies assuming these rolls. And #2 their schedule is no where's near as tuff as ours.
When you combine the lack of talent issues along with injury issues with strength of schedule issues you lose games. Worst yet losing gets you more losing, momentum either carries you up our carries you down, ours was clearly down this season.
You actually make good sense though, and I think we would have been at least a 500 team, if we had stayed healthy, and if we would have had a better mix of good and bad teams to play. Instead we had injuries and we faced the elite devisions of the NFL. Our own the NFC east, and the AFC south it just couldn't have been a worse combination.
We can go off the theory you present and let the HC go. But in order for the Browns to get better IMO we need better players. Those that simply blame the coach are saying IMHO that the talent is good to go, it's just coaching and we are set, and I disagree. I think we do have talent issues and changing the coach isn't going to correct that fact.
I could be wrong here, but unless we get better players no matter the coach will lose. Talent wins in the NFL.
JMHO
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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Quote:
I'm not buying with the talent issue either.
I agree.....I think the players have known for a long time Romeo lacks as a head coach.
It isn't all coaching.....but a different coach with this team would have done a heck of a lot better than Romeo.....like Porter pointed out...Romeo figures stuff out way too late.
We needed him out of here 2 years ago.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Lets just get this season over with and move on. 
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clay...That is the best post of the entire thread..really!
This season can't end soon enough so can begin to fix our Browns, once again.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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That's the best Pat Mac article I've seen in some time. It beats the pants off the Todd Porter (scab) article that preceeds it and is full of "fire the coach" agenda while pounding on only a couple of points since that's all he had.
That story should have had it's own thead. It's one I hope everyone gets to read. It's so damn full of common sense it will confound the majority of negative thinkers who post here.
Here's some actual common sense.
Of the coaches he named...
Mike McCarthy has a regular season record of 26-18 (59%) which encompasses his first three seasons in the league. He has made the playoffs once in 3 years, losing in the NFC title game.
Jack Del Rio has a regular season record of 49-40 (55%). He had lead the Jaguars to the playoffs 2 times in 6 seasons including two trips to the AFC Championship. His record in his first four full seasons was 34-30 (53%)
Jeff Fisher has a regular season record of 125-199 (56%). He has lead the Titans to the playoffs 5 times in 14 seasons and won the AFC Championship in 1999. His record in his first four full seasons was 31-33 (48.4%)
Norv Turner (who I think sucks as a head coach and should be fired if San Diego has any common sense) has a regular season record of 74-95-1 (44%). He's made the playoff 2 times in 10 seasons including two trips to his league championship. In recond in his first four seasons was 26-37 (41.2%)
Then... you have Romeo.
Romeo Crennel has a regular season record of 23-34 (40%) which encompasses his first four seasons. He has not made the playoffs in 4 years, some of which can be contributed to his 5-17 record vs. the AFC North including 0-7 against the Pittsburgh Steelers. In his only winning season (2007), he played the 2nd easiest schedule in the NFL and of his team's 10 wins, only 1 came against a team with a winning record.
The reason why Fisher was kept is because he was a successful coach in an off-year. The same thing is true of Del Rio and McCarthy. Norv Turner was regarded as a questionable hire at best and the only reason he MAY keep his job is because San Diego management is out of their minds. I still think he'll be fired. Yet, even HE has a better career record than Romeo.
Pat is flat out making excuses for Romeo. Romeo has been unfairly given all the blame for this problem. However, what Pat does is just as bad, by essentially absolving Romeo of all fault and placing it squarely on the head of the players. Players play the games and coaches make calls, call plays and get players ready to play the games. Productivity is a two-way street and to ignore either side of the fault is just reckless. We definitely personnel holes but if you think this team should be 4-9 like he seems to, I don't know what to tell you. Horrible underachievement like this cannot just be attributed to the players. Both players AND coaches need to be held accountable.
A team keeps continuity because you know the system in place is one that wins more often than not. You do NOT keep continuity just for the sake of continuity, which is pretty much what Pat is suggesting. What of this regime says that it deserves another year? The out of control players? The lackluster effort on the field? The poor techniques, like tackling that once they were addressed, magically improved (go figure)? The boneheaded in-game decisions? The bland, unimaginative playcalling?
Blow it up. Maybe this next regime will turn us into a winning franchise... maybe not... either way, I'd take a blank slate over a dysfunctional one like this in a heartbeat.
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If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Blow it up. Maybe this next regime will turn us into a winning franchise... maybe not... either way, I'd take a blank slate over a dysfunctional one like this in a heartbeat. Someone needs to blow you up..you don't tear up this whole thing..you're out of control..typical..
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Quote:
you don't tear up this whole thing
It's hard to take out a page or two if the coach is one of the pages.
New coaches usually mean substantial change.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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U know what I mean..some people want Phil and Rac gone , thats blowing it up. A new coach usually wants his own assistants..and in that I have little rebuttles..Chud hasn't shown me a whole lot..and Tucker hasn't either..although I wouldn't mind him going back to DB coach.
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Blow it up. Maybe this next regime will turn us into a winning franchise... maybe not... either way, I'd take a blank slate over a dysfunctional one like this in a heartbeat. Someone needs to blow you up..you don't tear up this whole thing..you're out of control..typical..
How kind of you. You're kidding, right? Maybe you misunderstand. I'm not for blowing the team up, I want to blow up most of the staff. I've had RAC's back for 3 years. I've made excuses for his failings and gave him a ton of slack because I knew this would take a while. This absolute meltdown is beyond the point of acceptability. The organization is rotten to the core. Most everyone feels it, but few are willing to admit it. Instead, it manifests itself as a feeling that these "aren't the same Browns" we had before the move. It manifests itself as an admiration of other organizations, like the Steelers, and a question why we can't have the same. It's there though.
Savage is not a GM. He's a great personnel director. Try to demote him, hire a guy to run the business aspect of the franchise and move on. RAC is not a head coach. He's a great defensive coordinator. You can't demote a head coach like that, so fire him. His staff goes too unless the new head coach thinks they fit the new philosophy. Rebuild the organization because the attitude that's prevalent throughout the whole thing doesn't even resemble "winning" right now. If Cowher brings that attitude to us, get him. If it's someone else, get him. Regardless, the one unacceptable option to me is to keep things in place and hope that another year of this will solve all our woes.
Do you really think another year of the status quo in the "5-year plan" is going to get rid of the losing mentality, poor effort, out of control personalities, etc. all in one fell swoop? I think that's impossible.
That's why media types call situations like this "cancer" in an organization. If you want to fix things, you don't just sit there for a year and hope it goes away. You cut it out.
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The organization is rotten to the core. Didn't know I was watching the mafia run this team..I thought Phil/Rac were ordinary people.. Instead, it manifests itself as a feeling that these "aren't the same Browns" we had before the move. Breaking NEWS!!! The Browns resurgence in 99 meant they weren't ever going to be the same Cleveland team as before.  h and the person(Lerner) who was instrumental in helping Mold-dell run out also helped bring them back..he should have never been allowed to do that..another ownership should have handled the team. Savage is not a GM. He's a great personnel director. I tend to agree that maybe he needs a business person helping while he handles the football side.. Do you really think another year of the status quo in the "5-year plan" is going to get rid of the losing mentality, poor effort, out of control personalities, etc. all in one fell swoop? I think that's impossible. Did you ever see me say that?
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 12/10/08 02:51 PM.
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Didn't know I was watching the mafia run this team..I thought Phil/Rac were ordinary people..
They are, but there are many ways to be rotten to the core. Phil said himself that the organization was previously rotten to the core in the same way with the same losing mentality and defeatist attitude that he said definitively he was looking to change when he came in. Well, 4 years later and I can't say we're any less rotten than when we took over. If you gave me quotes from articles about this era and the Butch Davis era, I'd have a hard time telling which was worse. That's a very bad thing.
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Breaking NEWS!!! The Browns resurgence in 99 meant they weren't ever going to be the same Cleveland team as before. h and the person(Lerner) who was instrumental in helping Mold-dell run out also helped bring them back..he should have never been allowed to do that..another ownership should have handled the team.
I agree with that but there's nothing we can really do about it now. We can't be the "same" team but we can certainly develop the same hard working, hard nosed, blue collar attitude that personified the team before the move. We just don't have the right people in place to do that yet and with a city like Cleveland, that kind of attitude is a MUST for success.
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Do you really think another year of the status quo in the "5-year plan" is going to get rid of the losing mentality, poor effort, out of control personalities, etc. all in one fell swoop? I think that's impossible.
Did you ever see me say that?
Nope, I inferred it. You're against blowing things up, so if that's not the solution, then what is? I logically assumed that if you don't want to gut the staff that you want them to stay. If there's another option out there, please tell me.
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I was surprised to find out it was a PattyMac article. I'd long since given up any hope of reading some decent jounalism from him. Way to pull one out, Pat.
This is sort of related to apost I made on another board this AM. Haven't checked back to see how hot the "flames" are, bit I'll go there now to cut/paste my last entry. Then the flames can rise here, as well.
_______________________________________
I know there are a lot of Dawgs yappin for Cowher to come here. LOTS of them.
I'm still lukewarm to the idea, even if it is an eventuality. Too many organizational 'what if's' accompany that appointment, such as the potential release of Phil Savage, (yet another) loss of continuity, etc.
On the surface, a Cowher signing looks Heaven-sent, but scratch that surface, and we might find challenges of a new sort. I know that Bill Cowher isn't Butch Davis, but we all know how scary it can be to have one guy calling all the shots. Could BC and PS work together? Could they find common ground, good talent? Could they coexist effectively? Would there be a wholesale staff turnover again?
While we're talking about new challenges, let's also consider the same old one that's been camped out in Cleveland for 3 decades now- lack of continuity. It's killing me that all this is happening again within this team I love so much. A quick review of our HC position history brings an interesting revelation: After Paul Brown's 16-year tenure, the longest-running HC tenure was Blanton Collier, at 7 years. Since then, we've had 10- count'em TEN head coaches (not factoring in 3 interim coaches) ... who's terms averaged exactly 2.15 years. And here we are again- looking to replace another HC after- how long? Yup, that's right- 2 full seasons, not counting the one we're living through at present. Right on time.
In clamoring for Bill Cowher, fans would be wise to ask themselves how long they expect to wait for results. If they don't get a sense of perspective, I assure you they'll be wringing their hands, talking about Cleveland being cursed, and screaming for Cowher's head on a platter.
Here's the breakdown, folks: Paul Brown: 16 years 7 national championships Blanton Collier: 7 years 1 championship Marty Schottenheimer: 4 years no championship
And it goes downhill from there.
By contrast, the Pittsburgh Steelers in that same time span: 10 head coaches. Surprised? You shouldn't be. Until the appointment of Chuck Noll, the Steelers went through 7 head coaches, who averaged exactly 2.14 years. Back then, they were considered a laughingstock.
Are you seeing a correlation here, folks?
Y'know... it seems to me that we might- just might try the one thing we haven't done since Paul Brown left: Stick with a plan for a change. The difference in results could be as striking as the difference between the respective outcomes of Viet Nam and WWII
I for one, wish the so-called "5-year plan" would be adhered to. The 5th year would be starting in '09... and every season is different than the one which preceded it. If we make these changes now, we'll never know if '09 was The One.
In closing, let me suggest this much: A dynasty will never happen here in Cleveland if we don't actually commit to one. Our team hasn't been committed to that ideal for 30+ years now. If things don't change, they'll just stay the same.
Mediocrity is the only constant where the Browns are concerned... and it's all we'll ever have to look forward to, if we keep doing things the way we've been doing them.
And it won't matter who has the "Head Coaching Job du Jour."
.02
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The piling on of Crennel
continues........
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