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So you're indicating that our problem is with the "players"? Which players? All of them? Because a lack of good tackling seems to be lacking by MANY on our D. So then we just get a a new team and keep RAC? Let me ask you, how many players are you seeing benched due to poor play, poor tackling, or poor anything else for that matter? Maybe they aren't playing well because they know there won't be any ramifications for poor play? Who knows? 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Gonna say one quick word about the tackling thing.......
The players who are missing most of the tackles are players which have been injured, or that won't be on this team or play prominent roles going into the future.
Andra Davis has been the biggest culprit, and is the poster child for the missed tackle. He's done, finished, adios, goodbye.
Jones has been injured, and despite his comments, he's hurting and it's showing in his play.
McDonald is a corner, and few corners tackle well.
Leon Williams is NOT the answer at MLB. I wanted him coming out as a developmental player. To this point, he hasn't become a viable, quality starter. All he really represents is a faster, bigger version of Andra Davis. Nothing more.
Every coach in the NFL teaches tackling. It's up to the players to execute. Conversely, it's up to the coaches to get the players ready.
The players come out ready to play for RAC. The problem is that when they are losing at the end of games.......again.......they get tired and fold up. When you run a defense where they can't get off the field, that's what happens. And yes, we have all seen a couple of instances this year where the players on defense stopped playing hard. We saw it against the Bills on some of their late runs, even though we won.
Bad players and coaches will get replaced. What's important is to get the right coaches and the right players under contract.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
What's important is to get the right coaches and the right players under contract.
Ya think so?

Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
So you're indicating that our problem is with the "players"? Which players? All of them? Because a lack of good tackling seems to be lacking by MANY on our D.
So then we just get a a new team and keep RAC?
Let me ask you, how many players are you seeing benched due to poor play, poor tackling, or poor anything else for that matter?
Maybe they aren't playing well because they know there won't be any ramifications for poor play?
Who knows?
Pitt sorry in being slow in responding, (been busy).
I think a lot of times the coach is placed in a no win situation that the average fan thinks are valid reasons for their firing. Tackling would be one of them. Look every team runs tackling drills and every team teaches proper technique. The idea that somehow the Browns operate differently or teach players NOT to tackle is well ridiculous. So yeah in answer to your question fire the players. The list that Toad made up would be a great place to start.
As an example of the no win, this pre-season half our starters were down with injury and the other half of the guys were dinged up. So RAC by his own description backed off a bit. Now he is said to have run camp cup cake by the fan base, and they use that as a reason for wanting to fire the guy. But the thing is anybody with half a brain, has the good sense to understand the reasons behind why camp was run the way it was this year. And believe me the Browns FO knows the reasons for it as well.
Here is how I see it many possibilities remain to be explored including firing coaches players and FO people. How that shakes out is of concern to me, but I know I don’t have all the info. I also know that the average length of stay for a HC since the Browns re-birth will be 3 years if we cut RAC loose. I don’t like firings, it don’t work, IMHO. Firing coaches is necessary at times but I would do so reluctantly and with a great deal of care, not willy nilly like the fickle fan does. I have endorsed the firing of every HC that has ever been given the ax in Cleveland, but when they hired RAC I said this time I want to see it thru. I want to ride it into the ground, if that’s what it comes too. We have fired HC after HC and gotten more losing for our trouble. This time for me my focus is on getting better players, maybe then we can win.
But hell yeah fire the players. Maybe if we do that we can get somewhere we have never gotten thru firing the coach ???????????
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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Say what you will. Many of these players have lacked motivation and focus. Their fundamentals are NOT sound.
The product on the field is poor. RAC is the HC and this is his fourth season.
I've posed this scenario to many and I'll pose it to you as well. ( So far nobody has had a reasonable answer)
When you draft a rookie player, he is very raw and will make some rookie mistakes. But as his career continues, you look for improvements. If by the end of season four, you do not see a marked improvement, many consider that player a bust. Especialy if he is a starter at a key position.
Are you claiming that you shouldn't see much the same effect in a HC? Is he too not accountable for growing, maturing and becoming more proficiant as a first time HC?
If so, please name me THREE AREAS that RAC has improved in from year one as a HC to year four as a HC?
If you can't do that, you have double standards. You are holding the players accountable while giving RAC a free pass to failure.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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1) How can you see a coach "improve" when he doesn't take any snaps and is not on the field? You can see a player's impact, but as a fan, we are not behind the scenes. We can't really judge him like that. All we know is how he acts on the field on the sidelines, and then also judge his clock management. Thats really it IMO.
2) The guy is how old? Not much is going to change at this point in his life period. He's been in this league for many many years. Change is not gonna come just b/c he's a head coach. He just has more responsibility.
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I can judge his halftime adjustments, scheme, challenges, and in general his game day decisions which come into question on a weekly basis, even if we win.
I grant you we can't see what goes on behind the scenes and he might be a good teacher ( i guess) but I've seen enough of him to know that he sure as hell isn't a good head coach on game day. IMO
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Poser
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So, we can determine that there are no adjustments, or poor ones, when we don't have all the personnel in place yet to MAKE successful adjustments? We can judge RAC's schemes when the players are in place to make plays, but are unable to...and view that as a negative? We can judge RAC on challenges when it is up to SOMEONE ELSE to make the call to him in the headset to make those challenges? Sure, there are some fans who THINK they have an idea who question his "gameday" decisions and there have been a few that were bad. However, it's blown way out of proportion by many who don't really know what the right decisions are on game day.
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All Pro
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i think you can judge gameplanning and halftime adjustment by looking at first and third quarter scoring.
second and fourth quarter scoring and defense have a little more to do with the determination of the players.
jmho.
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.
John Barrymore
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i think all 4 quarters are about determination.
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j/c going back to lerner, this is a very interesting read. looks like we have a more confident lerner and given his success with his soccer team, i'm excited to see what lerner will do in the offseason. Quote:
This train wreck of a Browns season jumped off the tracks the first week of November.
In the span of five days, the Browns blew a 14-point lead to Baltimore, made a quarterback change, and then blew a 13-point lead to Denver.
After those two excruciating losses at home, there was a brief respite with a road win against Buffalo. Then came another dreadful loss at home to Houston. That's when owner Randy Lerner set the wheels in motion for a probable coaching change.
He instructed some of his closest advisers to begin compiling lists of possible replacements in the event Romeo Crennel were to be released after the season.
Some of the names might require a restructuring of roles within Lerner's organization. Some may not officially be available. Others were the obvious choices any team pondering a coaching change in January would include.
The point of the lists was to prepare Lerner for the likely conclusions reached after conducting a review of Crennel and General Manager Phil Savage shortly after the Browns' last game at Pittsburgh on Dec. 28.
The questions repeatedly posed of the reclusive Lerner is whether he is up to the business at hand and on whom will he rely to make some tough decisions.
"The difference between Randy now and Randy 2 1/2 years ago is he knows the business now," said a person close to Lerner. "So he will listen to everybody, but he will make the final decision. He now has enough confidence to make the decision."
Lerner gained confidence through his experience in owning of the soccer team Aston Villa F.C., a venerable member of the English Premiership. Lerner purchased the club in Birmingham, England, for approximately $100 million in August 2006.
After Lerner reorganized management of the club, it has consistently improved on the field and gained in popularity among its legion of fans. It reportedly is worth at least twice what Lerner paid. Lerner is routinely hailed in England as the model owner of British soccer clubs among American sportsmen.
"So we now have a very good, experienced owner [of the Browns]," said the source.
When Lerner last made a major change in his football organization, in 2005, he was dipping his toe into new waters. Determined to put his own stamp on the franchise, Lerner cleared out Carmen Policy and Butch Davis -- the last vestiges of the organization built by his father, Al Lerner -- and named John Collins, an NFL marketing executive, as president and CEO.
Before the 2004 season concluded, Lerner and Collins had jointly visited two of the most successful NFL franchises -- the New England Patriots and Philadelphia Eagles -- to determine the best way to proceed. They decided to split football operations into two offices, one held by a general manager and the other by a head coach.
Savage was hired as GM and Crennel as coach a month later. In the organization chart, both men reported to the club president, Collins. It took less than a year for this all-rookie management team to unravel. Collins and Savage sparred. Lerner ultimately sided with Savage, releasing Collins from his duties.
Collins' office was not filled until May of this year when Lerner promoted Mike Keenan, formerly in charge of business operations, to president.
Savage and Crennel each received contract extensions in the spring, Savage's through 2012 and Crennel's through 2011.
In a sit-down interview with media last month, Lerner said financial commitments made to them, or to coordinators Rob Chudzinski and Mel Tucker, who also received new contracts, would have no bearing on his pending moves.
He said whatever moves he makes will be based on input from his closest advisers, whom he declined to name. "I'm not sitting alone in the room," Lerner said.
Today, The Plain Dealer opens the boardroom door and introduces Lerner's inner circle, the ones who may determine the immediate future of the Browns.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2008/12/lerners_decision_on_how_to_fac.html
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I think Lerner will give both Savage and Crennel one more year. If the Browns don't make any progress, then this regime will be over. But Lerner KNOWS this schedule was going to be tough.
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i think i can see either move. aside from cowher/marty and maybe holmgren, i'm we could find comparable coaches next offseason as well. if we keep rac and savage for another season, i can see that as a "fair" move. what is more important to me, though, is the owner is a more confident owner. he took his soccer team to success by restructuring management and now, he probably feels he can do the same with the browns. who knows, maybe the soccer team was lerner's science experiment to get some experience before turning the browns into a great team starting from the top.
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Quote:
I think Lerner will give both Savage and Crennel one more year. If the Browns don't make any progress, then this regime will be over. But Lerner KNOWS this schedule was going to be tough.
I think you're off. Savage? maybe he stays. Romeo's goose is cooked.
Yes the schedule was tough, but no one was expecting us to play this poorly. That's on the coach.
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The reality is that if it did absolutely anything for this team, RAC would be on the street already.
There won't be any discussion. He's done.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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The next guy, whoever he is...I hope he brings this to the table...
Much like Tressel re-installed the pride of being a Buckeye at Ohio State...the next guy has to re-install the pride of being a Brown. What it means to be a Cleveland Brown.
Hell, if I'm the new coach, I give every player The History of the Cleveland Browns DVD, as a homework assignment, I tell them to watch it.
I want them to know how important it is that they represent us with pride. Restore the pride of playing in front of the Dawg Pound.
Putting on that jersey should be as much of an honor as a baseball player donning the pinstripes.
I know Cowher and Marty would bring that to the table...hell, even Tressel would (but I'd rather he stick with the Buckeyes). You're playing in front of the best fans in the NFL...play like it.
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in college that's important. guys are together for 4 years. most buckeye players grow up dreaming of playing for the bucks.with free agency, not so much in the nfl. To be honest I could care less if they know our history or care about tradition. All I ask for is they play good as a unit, give their all each game, and most importantly, get wins. just my 2 cents.
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If I'm forced to watch anymore of this crap football,I'll be committed.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Quote:
The reality is that if it did absolutely anything for this team, RAC would be on the street already.
There won't be any discussion. He's done.
Exactly
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Lerner says he's committed to
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