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I guess those gramelins don't always do their job. 
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I think in this scenario he should be off limits. I swear, I think some people took some Versed and have completely blacked out the play of Derek Anderson over the last full year.
Again, never say never. Is it likely? Hell no, not at all, but no one is untouchable.
Especially on this team.
you had a good run Hank.
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You want an article emphatically stating DA isnt a leader?...COME ON TOAD.
Do you have one?
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Are you telling me he is?
I'm stating I haven't seen any proof which would support your claim that he isn't.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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"I had planned for Brady to be the quarterback. When he comes back, he will be the quarterback."
When debates come up, a lot are going to refer to this statement and still cry out "fire RAC!" If RAC isn't here next year, this statement doesn't hold water. I believe the new coach keeps both and evaluates who he has to work with.
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It'd be interesting to see how that plays out.
Conventional wisdom says Brady gets the first shot because of where he was drafted and how much we've invested into him.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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DA is DA...said it a million times...its the same OLD garbage...DA teases with raw talent...and never improves.
To state that DA never improves is about as false of a statement you can make. Look back and watch the last 4 complete performances by DA without focusing on every bad throw or decision. Every QB will make mistakes, Peyton Manning (who I think is one of the best to ever play the game) makes mistakes. The real question is, does he put us into a positon to win the game consistently?
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Quote:
Quote:
"I had planned for Brady to be the quarterback. When he comes back, he will be the quarterback."
When debates come up, a lot are going to refer to this statement and still cry out "fire RAC!" If RAC isn't here next year, this statement doesn't hold water. I believe the new coach keeps both and evaluates who he has to work with.
RAC will be gone, DA will be gone.
End of story.
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NRTU I've seen enough of DA to tell me he's not the one. I hope he plays well enough to stir interest in him. I'd like to trade him, pick up a veteran backup, and move forward with Quinn. Spend the rest of the offseason building the defense and send BE to a psychiatrist to fix his head.  BQ might not be the answer, but I'm pretty damn sure DA isn't... so lets move on or this year will be a complete loss.
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One QB has to go, we cannot afford the situation we had this season. The controversy just kills the team, it takes away the teams focus and splits the locker room.
Sure! Just like it did last year when we went 10-6 
You can't be serious. We played 3 playoff teams last year and got blown out by 2 of them and barely beat the third which was obviously a team on a downward trend (Seattle).
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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with all respect dude, if you can't back a statement like "DA is a poor leader" your making it up. That's stuff you find out from the lockerroom. Folks who have insider info (For example, Vers) have stated that the players respect DA. That doesn't mean they hate quinn, I'm sure they like him too. If your going to argue for Quinn, don't make crap up, that's all.
I know folks don't want to visit the possibility that Quinn isn't the one, we can't just blindly say he is without some kind of honest evaluation. A new coach will want to see for himself. If quinn is the guy, i'm fully behind him. Let the decision be made based on facts and not marketing.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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Quote:
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One QB has to go, we cannot afford the situation we had this season. The controversy just kills the team, it takes away the teams focus and splits the locker room.
Sure! Just like it did last year when we went 10-6
You can't be serious. We played 3 playoff teams last year and got blown out by 2 of them and barely beat the third which was obviously a team on a downward trend (Seattle).
Quinn did well against only one team. Does that mean he sucks too? 
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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Spend the rest of the offseason building the defense and send BE to a psychiatrist to fix his head.
Amen to that! I'd love for BE to get his head strait. He's getting to Hollywood on us. Though I have liked the play of Steve Breaston. I'd like to see us pick up him and drop Stallworth.
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Yep, trading Quinn is off-limits. 
It is off limits because he is our starting QB. Romeo has said that Quinn will be the starter come training camp. We have made the change and Romeo plans on sticking to it. I'm sure if Quinn falters badly the decision might be revisited.
This might actually be a blessing. If we decide that we are going to get rid of DA, we can at least bring in a vet this year to learn the offense and see if we need to go after another QB in the off season.
Toad is right IMO. We should keep both guys. Quinn lasted just one complete game before being injured. How many guys do you think there are in this league who can jump in and be better than DA as a backup? If some of you are so worried about possible QB arguements then why even have a backup?
I also think that maybe some of you would have learned something...I guess I was wrong. It was quite obvious to me that when Quinn played our offense was still bad. In the Houston game DA came in after Quinn struggled and the same things were happening. Braylon running lazy routes and dropping balls. Winslow unable to get seperation. Receivers not getting open consistantly.
DA still has glaring problems but they have not been as bad as most people think because of what else is happening. He also went three games without a pick before having one each the last two. That is growth.
I am ready to see Quinn take over but I don't want DA gone unless we have a viable backup. Can anyone point one out for me?
#gmstrong
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You want an article emphatically stating DA isnt a leader?...COME ON TOAD.
Are you telling me he is?
First off, I doubt there is an article that says that DA is or isn't a leader. Don't know if one has been written..
But that not withstanding, he lead his team to 10 wins last year.. did you read that,,, HE LEAD HIS TEAM to 10 wins last year.. And before someone says it, NO, HE DIDN"T DO IT ALONE.
About the only thing that hasn't been dissected, cut open, torn apart or ripped about DA is his leadership. It's about all he has that isn't questionable.
You don't care for the guy,,ZOK,, but geez man, he doesn't need more wood thrown on the fire.
Yes, DA is DA,, But what DA isn't, is a bad leader or field general. He's got other flaws... Don't confuse the two.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Let the decision be made based on facts and not marketing.
I believe that decision was made already, like about the time Anderson took a seat and Quinn became the starter! 
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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Spend the rest of the offseason building the defense and send BE to a psychiatrist to fix his head.
Amen to that! I'd love for BE to get his head strait. He's getting to Hollywood on us. Though I have liked the play of Steve Breaston. I'd like to see us pick up him and drop Stallworth.
Also, get JJ, stieny, K2 (we can hope  ) healthy and whoever is QB will do a lot better.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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NRTU
I still don't understand why everyone seems to think DA is soooooooooo bad.
it's b/c of his slow reads and the inability to throw the short pass. If he could fix that, i'd love him.
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If you want to think about something really funny,, what if Cribbs gets a shot at QB and we find out that he's the best we have... Now that would be funny
With Cribbs and the way he works and plays, that would not suprise me one bit.
Me either. He tore up in college. Thats not the NFL, but he WANTS to play the position...and he HAS to win- that's half the battle!
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send BE to a psychiatrist to fix his head.
Or send him for the best package offered.
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You want an article emphatically stating DA isnt a leader?...COME ON TOAD.
Are you telling me he is?
First off, I doubt there is an article that says that DA is or isn't a leader. Don't know if one has been written..
But that not withstanding, he lead his team to 10 wins last year.. did you read that,,, HE LEAD HIS TEAM to 10 wins last year.. And before someone says it, NO, HE DIDN"T DO IT ALONE.
About the only thing that hasn't been dissected, cut open, torn apart or ripped about DA is his leadership. It's about all he has that isn't questionable.
You don't care for the guy,, OK,, but geez man, he doesn't need more wood thrown on the fire.
Yes, DA is DA,, But what DA isn't, is a bad leader or field general. He's got other flaws... Don't confuse the two.
So if the team wins...it was the QB that led them?
So then logically, he should get credit for leading his team into the sewer this year.
No?
Derek had his chance(s)..blew it...was benched.
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So if the team wins...it was the QB that led them?
So then logically, he should get credit for leading his team into the sewer this year.
No?
Derek had his chance(s)..blew it...was benched.
who lost the denver game? was it BQ or the defense?
who lost the balt game? was it DA or the defense?
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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I can tell you that Hank Fraley wanted to tear off his "Captain" patch and give it to DA. I can tell you that at least one wife said that DA is without a doubt the leader of the offense.
To be a leader you don't have to fit into someone elses stereotype. There are many ways to be a leader. DA gets slammed on here for joking around on the sidelines when things are going badly. That is his way of lightening the mood to relax people so they can refoucus.
#gmstrong
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One QB has to go, we cannot afford the situation we had this season. The controversy just kills the team, it takes away the teams focus and splits the locker room.
Sure! Just like it did last year when we went 10-6
It did, we got rid of Frye and the team improved because of lack of the QB distraction. 
But as soon as Quinn had some time to learn the playbook, DA started playing bad.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I can tell you that Hank Fraley wanted to tear off his "Captain" patch and give it to DA. I can tell you that at least one wife said that DA is without a doubt the leader of the offense.
To be a leader you don't have to fit into someone elses stereotype. There are many ways to be a leader. DA gets slammed on here for joking around on the sidelines when things are going badly. That is his way of lightening the mood to relax people so they can refoucus.
It probably has nothing to do with the fact that DA and Hank are best friends? And his best friend got benched?
Nope.
We'll see how DA "leads" them now...hopefully its not how hes led his team in the past....
DA isnt a leader, he's a feeder, he'll play as good as those around him, nothing more. Leaders dont look to the sideline to see if they should call a timeout, Leaders dont throw up their arms and look at the coaching staff everytime something doesnt go their way.
Maybe DA is a leader...hes just a awful one.
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DA isnt a leader, he's a feeder, he'll play as good as those around him, nothing more.
Most every "great" QB has had an excellent supporting cast and didn't acheive on their own.
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It did, we got rid of Frye and the team improved because of lack of the QB distraction.:)
Quinn being on the roster meant there was a controversy. Anderson's play kept that from becoming a story.
I fully understand that having two QB's on the team means you have none. I've argued that point for years. However, when DA was going well, he was the starter. When Quinn was named the starter, DA was clearly the backup. I don't doubt that if either guy takes the reigns and runs with'em that said QB will be the guy.
Clearly, if Quinn is the starter, there's no QB controversy because he's the golden boy. If Anderson takes the job and does well, we'd trade Quinn because Quinn is the golden boy I think the dynamics are such that allowing the two QB's to have a legit open competition (not the fake BS stuff that RAC always spews  ) is the best scenario for the team.
Now I don't expect the organization to take that stance. That's simply my opinion on what I'd do. I think it only makes sense to name Quinn the starter going forward because of what's been invested into him.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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According to this article there is nothing to debate as Quinn will be the starter next season.
Cleveland Browns Brady Quinn likely to have surgery
by Tony Grossi
Wednesday November 26, 2008, 12:35 PM
PD file photo
Brady QuinnBrady Quinn said he does not regret playing Sunday against Houston knowing that there was a chance the injuries to his right index finger would worsen.
Now he is "praying" about whether to have surgery on the finger or just have it immobilized in a splint. He was told by doctors to decide in the next seven days.
Either way, the rehabilitation time is the same, six to 10 weeks.
"It's frustrating," Quinn said about having his season shut down after playing in only three games, only one of which he was fully healthy. "I can't begin to tell you. I'm hurting right now."
A source close to Quinn said that surgery has been recommended as the best course of action to assure long-term health to the finger. Quinn admitted that if he opts not to have surgery, there's a chance he still would need it in the future.
The surgery, the source said, would be done to correct a bone chip that has detached from the fracture at the tip of his finger. Also, the tendon connecting the last two bones of the finger must be pulled and secured with a pin, the source said.
Quinn likely would have the surgery done by a hand specialist in Birmingham, Ala.
Although Quinn lamented the fact he didn't have enough time this year to grow into the NFL starting role, he did enough to impress coach Romeo Crennel, who benched Quinn Sunday after his second interception.
Crennel said, "I'm impressed with what (Quinn) has done on the field, off the field, the way he's handled situations, the way he's handled the team, being able to manage the game, not getting rattled. I like the kid a lot."
In a surprising admission, Crennel said that if Quinn and Derek Anderson both return to the club in 2009, there would be no open competition for the starting job.
"I had planned to go with Brady as the quarterback," Crennel said. "When he comes back, he's going to be healthy and he's going to be the quarterback. Quinn is the starter next training camp."
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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I like RAC being decisive, but couldn't that hurt DA's trade value if teams know he's not going to be the starter?
Just thinking out loud...
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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And along with that article comes this quote from Randy Learner: Quote:
Lerner expressed frustration that the team has failed under the present regime, and before, to establish an identity. He also indicated he was not happy that his football operation has failed to choose a quarterback around which to build the team.
The debate is over, period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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Gives you a lot of faith in the Browns's doctors doesn't it?......... 
Just which Doctors did Quinn see Otto
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Now he is "praying" about whether to have surgery on the finger or just have it immobilized in a splint
Oh great here come the bashers to complain about him praying again
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I am talking about last year. Afterall, DA is a captain this year. Considering you are nowhere near the team I think your opinion is as good as mine....Whorthless. Now if after DA is gone we hear rumors on how he isn't a leader then I might rethink my opinion.
#gmstrong
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DA would not be a captain if he was not highly thought of .. no doubt .. guys like DA .. and people follow guys they like .. so that makes DA a leader ... U guys are making this into a he stinks vs he good type of debate and there is no reason for it .... my take ..
DA is a good leader ... IN HIS WAY ....
BQ is a good leader ... IN HIS WAY ...
U have to lead within in your personality .. DA is laid back and leads more by example ... BQ is outgoing and a take charge type of guy ... he is alot more vocal and authoratitive in his leadership ... it doesn't make him a better leader it just makes him a DIFFERENT TYPE OF LEADER ...
I think BQ is a more affective leader ... but that is not to say that DA is a bad leader by any stretch ... I think there both good leaders in there own ways ...
PS. look who the hell is saying DA is not a leader .. why do u give what he says any CREDIBILITY WHAT SO EVER ....
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In a surprising admission, Crennel said that if Quinn and Derek Anderson both return to the club in 2009, there would be no open competition for the starting job.
"I had planned to go with Brady as the quarterback," Crennel said. "When he comes back, he's going to be healthy and he's going to be the quarterback. Quinn is the starter next training camp."
Since Crennel won't be here next year, his opinion is meaningless
Having said that, it only makes sense to go into training camp with Quinn as the guy. That doesn't mean I wouldn't leave the door open for Anderson, should he suddenly put it all together.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Read that statement over and over to yourself and tell me how it makes any sense at all to keep them both ... and really how it makes any sense at all to keep DA ... if you really feel what you said there ... you left yourself an out with the term "may", but I don't believe you think DA is the guy.
So read it again 100 times or a 1000 times or whatever it takes, and tell me how a sound, logical, intelligent person would make the case
The term 'may' is dictated by logic. Because I have no idea. No one does. He could win a Super Bowl for all I know...or maybe the Grey Cup.
In my own head, I think I have a grasp of who DA is and what he can do...and given the right circumstance...he could be 'the guy' to win. And, yes, circumstance matters. Brett Favre or Peyton Manning couldn't save the Lions right now.
Do I think he's clearly the future of this team? No...in fact, I'd be inclined to be on the other side of that one. Do I think he's a dud? No...but again I don't think he's going to light many torches in this league.
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Commit to Quinn ... it's that simple. The playbook has been toned down for him ... he's been handcuffed ... he did well with what he was given ... he has given us no indications at all he won't do well with additional plays ... he's tough, intelligent ... a leader ... will not make excuses ... will face the music if he needs to ... will look at himself in the mirror and know he needs to play better when needed ... this is everything we want ... this is the guy we gave up a CRAPLOAD for ...
Personally, I've seen none of those things. I haven't seen the contrary, either...why does it have to be so black and white around here?
Read what you wrote...that's all fluff...nonsense. Will look at himself in the mirror and know he needs to play better when needed? What the hell does that even mean?
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Why do we need to see more to know more ... have a little faith as a fanbase ... and as a FO ... make a freakin' executive decision. Enough with this indecisive crap. I can handle it from fans like you ... I can't handle it from the guys who make the big bucks.
I feel like if you worked on Wall Street, you may have hung yourself with a tie a few weeks ago.
This is a long-term multi-million dollar decision...I actually like the cautious approach we've taken thus far.
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Now he is "praying" about whether to have surgery on the finger or just have it immobilized in a splint
Oh great here come the bashers to complain about him praying again
Not me. With all the tumult I would have guessed the Browns didn't have a prayer this week. Glad to hear I'm incorrect.
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"Now, as far as all of the hating on DA ...... Quinn really didn't do much (if any) better. He had one great game against the worst defense in the NFL ..... then a couple of pretty bad games."
Well I guess I'll start right here.
Couple of bad games????
1 Good.
1 OK.
1 (almost 3 qtrs) didn't look sharp at all and now we find out his broken finger was more than at first expected...hmmm not to make an excuse but he played basically two games with that injury....As it happened in the first qtr of game 2.
But you insist he's as bad as DA...lol playing with that injury and terribly effecting his STATs he still is rated better than DA...my a fraction but better. What's DA's excuses? He had to move a foot to the right in the pocket?
So in your book and your obvious bias towards DA...playing with a broken finger and damaged tendons...had no bearing on his poorer outing.
Do we know what kind of finished product we will have with BQ? Obviously not.
Do we know what kind of finished product we got in DA....after 26 starts I'd say we have a bead on the direction he's headed to.
Toad...a competition...In practice - DA will win hands down any time any where.
Then the games will start and he'll still suck! He's a practice player. If you call it a competition and grade it from practices. DA wins the job.
Well we'll see what Cowher decides. Cause as we all know a new guy has no beholding to the investments made by the previous BMOC - So he'll pick who he feels is best. Hopefully he will watch game film and not base it on Practice.
RAC...the decision to play BQ this past week has to fall on him. It wasn't like he didn't know he had a broken finger. When first heard of the fracture - I thought well he's out for at least 3-6 weeks. I was shocked to hear he'd make the start. We were told no further damage could come out of it. 
I do find this decision to play him disturbing.
And the pulling of BQ was not to save the kid from a bad day due to an injury...it was thrown in there...but then you don't name the kid the starter after you pull him due to an injury??? RAC had no idea that the injury was effecting BQs play.
If this was RAC being wise and sage...then he would not have started BQ this past game at all!
This sucks only cause the season is over and I'd like to see BQ grow a little and learn from mistakes. I don't want him making the mistakes for the first time next season.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 974
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 974 |
Since nobody wants to debate except by just saying "DA sucks" by picking apart his mistakes and claiming quinn is so much better, I'll just say one more thing:
I know folks have basically thrown DA on the scrap pile, but one more thought. If DA played as well as he did last year this year, would you all still be foaming for Quinn?
30+ TD passes. Think about it.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
That doesn't mean I wouldn't leave the door open for Anderson, should he suddenly put it all together.
I disagree. I don't think either of these guys is ever going to take off while looking over their shoulder at the other on the sidelines... I just don't.
My main concern right now would be finding a compentent experienced back up after DA is gone.
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
"Since nobody wants to debate except by just saying "DA sucks"
You are kidding right?  I think the poor horse has been beaten and beaten and beaten.
You mean you don't know yet that he sucks?
last year as this year...lol  You mean his first 8 games in 07 when all of a sudden the headlights hit that poor dear and he :GULP: realized he was the starter...lol
Check out his play the 2nd half of last season...and then the first half of this season....There is absolutely nothing to be impressive about.
Just the fact that you have to LIE and state 30+ TD passes - make you UNWORTHY TO DEADBATE...how can I win with a Maker UPPER
But DA didn't just get bad...actually I thought DA improved in his play this SEASON from last...he actually got better. Just not in the areas that he was horrible and needed to improve.
I'll spell it out to you. NO QB can succeed in this NFL - the era that utilizes a pass as effective as a run regarding ball control and Moving the chains....NO QB can succeed with a completion pct of 55or less in passes in this 10 yard area. The norm is around 70% for the NFL QB....DA 50% and the norm is probably higher than what I"m stating. But you cannot succeed being that inaccurate with the short intermediate passes.
Also holding DA back. In the 26 games I saw him ONE TIME...lets see I don't need two hands...5 fingers....JUST ONE TIME...where he made a play out of nothing....It was around the 3rd or 4th game this season...maybe later???
The pocket was starting to break down and he slid to the left...stepped up and hit the WR for 5-7 yards and a first...He actually completed it. Thats ONE.
Good QBs...starting NFL QBs make something out of nothing...a handful of times a game! BQ in his first game did it at least 4 times. DA does not have this virtue not even a smattering. That is why DA will not be a good NFL QB - for those two reasons primarily.
Is that more technical...cause I can even get more if its needed and I don't make up stuff. 30+ TD....lol last year.
Does DA throw a beautiful ball...sure, go ask NORV Turner...he was impressed as heck at the Beautiful Ball DA threw in practice in Hawaii.
Then he dropped that HOT POTATO as soon as the game was over. Like in OH MAN DID I SAY THAT????
These are all the reasons why I dislike DA...I don't know him as a guy...I can give two dinks about BQ, I'm not a BQ fan I'm simply a BRowns fan.
But I was willing to give DA his due, His opportunity to start this year. After all the coaches see him day in and day out. Maybe he did improve. And he did...just not enough and not mentally. I will say this again about DA. He has to be in a pure Comfort Zone for him to do well. Sneeze the wrong way and that comfort zone is interrupted. Ergo...Dr. Jekyll n Mr. Hyde - Hot n Cold, Inconsistent - what ever you wish to call it.
When teams go and take away his most comfortable passes...the 15-20 yard range pass and force him to go underneath and make him be CONSISTENT to sustain a drive - He couldn't. He had 26 starts...I'm curious just how many drives of 70+ yards did he have in that span?
What I saw in BQ...his first two games he had the Browns scoring in every Quarter that we played. Consistent...no big droughts.
This last game? I don't really know what to make of it. He's out for the season so I have to ASSume he didn't look sharp due to the finger. I don't know how much involved you are with football but the Index finger and the Thumb are the two that would effect the throw most of all.
Anyways...I'm sick of the Deadbate. But if you guys really think that you can evaluate BQ with these 3 games accurately - especially the last two playing with a broken finger...the only healthy game he had was a 104 rating. But you can't evaluate him on that. And you say he was worse than DA... Even with the broken finger, throwing 2 INTs - DA comes in and has a WORSE QB RATING for the game. 20 something to 10 something...gee whiz Great bragging rights
But his ball was such a better ball when he came in...
That and a buck will get you a Jr. Whopper.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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