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No he hasn't been told Daman..and I don't need to go into the whys ..it hasn't happened..I'll take Lerners word that he'll wait till the season IS OVER and do his assessment..there's nothing gained by telling Rac he's a goner..but ya think Rac is stupid and doesn't know whats up?
I disagree, Romeo knows. And he signed an extension last year that will pay him handsomely to go away. Not a bad consolation prize for a guy who was a career Assistant making a fraction of what he will make to retire.
You can't equate that with the business world in terminations with the NFL because the NFL has contracts that have to be upheld. I agree with you in a real-world scenario but not in the NFL.
He knows and it might not be in an official capacity...it's probably someone Lerner told to tell him off the record. Notice how our team hasn't released a denial of the Shottenheimer report? There is a reason for that.
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My opinion of Marty is he's 65 yrs old and his best years are behind him.
And when he was 63 he took a team to a 14-2 record.
I'm perfectly fine with Schott coming back on a 2-3 year deal.
And his comments about coming back or not...........if anyone takes anything anyone says at face value in this league, they are only fooling themselves.
Toad...I'm not looking for a short term fix, a 2-3 year period where the Browns may or may not be able to achieve their goal of a stable franchise capable of challenging for the playoffs every year.
Too many Browns fans are looking for the "quick fix" thinking Marty is the answer...I'm not convinced Marty is capable of making the "quick fix" some will be looking for.
It's obvious that Marty is a little unsure about coaching again too. The very first line in the story is...
.............................
"Marty Schottenheimer said during an interview today on Sirius NFL Radio that it's unlikely he'd return to Cleveland to become head coach of the Browns again, but admitted he was intrigued about the possibility of returning in a front-office role with Bill Cowher as coach."
................................
That does not sound like he's interested in coaching. Later caller asks Marty about coaching the Browns...
..................................
"Asked specifically by a caller if he'd consider becoming Browns head coach again, he said, "I don't ever say 'never' if I don't have to but I don't see it (going back to coach the Cleveland Browns) as being likely."
.................................
Marty goes on to comment on how his life has changed...I interpret that to mean Marty has accepted retirement and decided he was done with coaching. Here is that paragraph...
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"I don't see that as being likely at all. I really don't. I've made a major change in my life and, again, the only thing I always say, as a caveat, I don't ever make a decision if I don't have to and thus I haven't made one. First of all, nobody has presented me with an overture and, secondly, I've kind of aligned myself and my life kind of where it is and if they want to pay me $30 million a year I'll have to talk about it (laughs). But actually you couldn't even take the $30 million because we need it for the government so we can get out of this financial crisis we're in. I have not spoken to anybody from there and the likelihood is, if indeed I were to, I don't see it [as being] likely."
Note...the $30 mill reference is a joke by Marty, don't take that figure seriously.
...................................
Toad, the last thing I want is an "attempt" at a quick fix by naming an ex coach who is retired and lured out of retirement because of Lerner's money.
Pay the money to Cowher and sign him to a 10 year contract, knowing the franchise will remain stable for the next decade. It gives the Browns the best shot at returning to a Championship caliber team for more than a 2-3 yr period.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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U guys speculate more than it snows off of Lake Erie..
Lerner isn't going to send some minion in to tell Rac he's being beamed outta town..
When he has issues he speaks to his people..
He would gain nothing by telling RAC or sending a Money-gram to him..
And it's not coming from Phil either since he's not clear whats going to happen to him..
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I want HOLMGREN. He'll be available after the season. He took his teams to 3 superbowls.
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I hear ya, but it works differently at different levels..
Take the President of a company.. He's told ahead of time.. Most companies of any size (the sales volume of an NFL team would qualify as large I would think) would tell the President that he's gone and give him plenty of time to save face as he leaves.
Its pretty standard at high levels.. at lower levels,, yeah, I agree, you give them no warning other than shape up or ship out type things... then one day you walk in and lower the boom..
If you owned a retail store and you needed to fire an employee.. you would do it on the spot and walk them out.. You wouldn't run the risk of them damaging merchandise or stealing etc..
Same with a factory worker..
But top level management (like RAC in this case) may be told in advance that at the end of the season, for reasons that are clear, we need to make a change at your position. Then the probalby go on to say something to the effect that you will be paid the balance of your contract..
I'm pretty sure that's how it's handled in most industries at that level, But especially in a tight knit community like the NFL where everyone knows everyone.
With the exception of how Marty was treated by the Chargers a few years back, you almost always see things done in a more professional manor befitting the position.
So yeah, I think RAC knows and I think that if Savage is staying, he told him. If savage is on the same road out of town, then Lerner told him.. or maybe that new president Lerner hired, what's his name..... Keenan I think?
But I doubt Keenan did anyting. I'm more thinking it was either Lerner or Savage.
And again, it's JMO.. But I'd bet you I'm right. I've been there.
#GMSTRONG
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I think we should rehire Butch Davis....He's had time to reflect and learn, and he will be our Belichic this time around. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Daman - you're right. An organization does not walk in to a high level manager's office and give the person the axe without any warning. Only in very unique circumstances (e.g., company sale), would this happen. In fact, in many organizations low level employees are given "fair warning" by telling them to find a new job in 2-3 months. Firings, especially ugly and unexpected, lead to many more problems. RAC knows his days are numbered - and he knows that how he exits will play a big role in where he lands next. If he chooses to trash the season, other teams will see this and avoid hiring him. Loss of motivation??? C'mon. This guy is a professional head coach who wants the respect of his peers and other teams.
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so all we can really do is pray we get the right guy.
Can we get an amen???
That's all we have in our power right now... We better be good for goodness sake.
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To me, it's not clinging to anyone with success as though the only ones who have it anymore are the ones who had it in the past, it's about finding the RIGHT coordinator/assistant to bring in.
My opinion is that when we had a team of youngin's, a guy like RAC was the kind of father-figure coach that fit.
We're no longer that team.
This is a team of veterans who need a veteran coach who knows how to push the right buttons.
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Find a leader. Find someone the players will respect and not only want to play for, but actually DO play for. Find someone with passion for the job who is smart enough to make the right calls.
You mean like......oh......Marty Schottenheimer?
I know where you're coming from, Spec. I simply don't agree. Cowher is my first choice, Marty my fallback. I don't base the decision on a knee-jerk reaction that says "chit, this rookie HC/Coordinator stuff didn't work, so now we gotta try a veteran!" I base it on what I perceive the makeup of this team to be.
Veteran coaches won't put up with Winslow and Edwards' crap the way Crennel has. Sadly, RAC has become that guy which players love, but players don't fear. He isn't getting the most out of them, and has now taken this team by the combined scruff's of their necks. Cowher or Schottenheimer are known for that.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I'm not looking for a short term fix, a 2-3 year period where the Browns may or may not be able to achieve their goal of a stable franchise capable of challenging for the playoffs every year.
Marty started coaching in SD in 2002, and the team was a mess. Three years later (end of 2004 season), the team finished 12-4 and had the basis for sustained success. I will take 2-3 years of Marty to set the direction for the Browns and step aside for a replacement he selects (and not Norv Turner).
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"Marty Schottenheimer said during an interview today on Sirius NFL Radio that it's unlikely he'd return to Cleveland to become head coach of the Browns again, but admitted he was intrigued about the possibility of returning in a front-office role with Bill Cowher as coach."
................................
That does not sound like he's interested in coaching. Later caller asks Marty about coaching the Browns...
What was Marty doing on the radio anyway? It sounds like he was on the air to discuss this rumor with more of an open mind than he lets on. If he is really happy to be in retirement then he has no need to discuss it on the radio. As the saying goes: "Me thinks he doth protest too much"
All of this is idle speculation at this point. I have no idea if Marty will come back, and his comments on the radio and the lack of denials from the FO do not give us any indication one way or another. All I know is that Marty has built winning programs at three separate organizations - and he came within an Earnest-Byner-fumble-as-he-was-falling-into-the-end-zone of making it to a Super Bowl. If he chooses to come out of retirement, then I trust he can build the Browns to be a winner.
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[censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] [censored] and the horse you rode in on 
Ya know, I've been waiting to see if anyone would talk about a potential meaning behind marty's words regarding Cowher, yet nobody has.
Hasn't anyone thought that, perhaps, Marty is talking about how it would be cool to be a GM of the Browns and have Cowher working under him..............
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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As much as I hate seeing what has happened (and wanted to see RAC succeed), this assessment seems to be on-point.
Bummer. It would have been nice to see the team reward RAC with more maturity and better play after the 16-week party we all had last year.
Here's something just for thought (and maybe a few giggles)
Logistical and contractual problems would prevent this from happening, so we'll keep my next question in the realm of the hypothetical:
How do you think RAC would perform as the Browns' DC?
just puttin it our there for a little Dawgtalker's back & forth...
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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Huh?
Dude was quotes as saying that..
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2008/12/schottenheimer_says_coaching_c.html
Marty Schottenheimer said during an interview today on Sirius NFL Radio that it's unlikely he'd return to Cleveland to become head coach of the Browns again, but admitted he was intrigued about the possibility of returning in a front-office role with Bill Cowher as coach.
"That would be very interesting for a couple of reasons,'' Schottenheimer said on The Sirius Blitz. "You know, Bill and I have remained very, very close friends throughout our NFL careers and it goes back to when he was a player and I was an assistant. I would be less than candid if I didn't say that that is, at the very least, intriguing. But there are so many movable parts there it would be like a Rubix cube."
He did say it..so it's out there.
But this is what you didn't say..if that were the senero, you think Phil could even here ?
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 12/09/08 01:10 PM.
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That doesn't say a move to that role with the Browns.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Eh..no and it won't at this point..and it couldn't..because it would mean they've put it on the table for him..and I don't need t go into the Rooney rules blah blah blahhh...but the signs are clear that the opening in Cleveland is going to be there..and I doubt if another situation would intrigue Marty more, than Cleveland.
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Unfortunately for RAC, there's nothing left for him in Cleveland. He may be a highly-qualified DC, but what's happened over the last 4 years would prevent everyone from being on board with him.
Much of the logical thinking would be along the lines of "Geez, he made so many dumb in-game decisions, what's to say he won't make those same dumb decisions as the DC?"
Then there's the problem his former coordinators brought to the table, which was loyalty issues. There will be players loyal to RAC that won't like what a disciplinarian brings to the table. They'll go try and hide behind RAC's skirt because he was safe.
Furthermore, from his angle, I can't see how he'd want to stay, considering all the enduring criticism he's been carrying.
He needs a fresh start somewhere else.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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But lets throw it out there....Marty as GM..Cowher as coach..
But about Phil?
Could he co-exist with Marty?
Do you like the idea of Marty drafting?
I don't ..I do like the HC having a say on his roster..
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Too many chiefs. Savage would have to go. Not so sure I like the sound of that.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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If you read the article AD,, Marty doesn't think much of a coach being the GM either.. He said he tried that in DC and it didn't work out too well. then he laughed according the article.
Point is,, I think that if Marty comes here in a FO capacity and is put in charge of the draft (not 100% sure I like that idea by the way) and Cowher comes in as HC... (the two of them together, working in tandem to pick the right guys might work) would be a very interesting combo..
One I gotta think alot about, but one that on the surface brings two very good.. in fact, excellent head coaches into this organization. Two guys that have worked together successfully in the past and have been successful since.
I'm thinking that they hire someone to head the scouting department... Move Savage out the door, and take over the whole show...
yeah, this could be very interesting.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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No neither do I .
I don't trust Shott to do any drafting..I would hope that Phil isn't booted in any senero that comes up..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 12/09/08 01:49 PM.
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yebat' Putin
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Mike Junkin. *shudder*
Mike Junkin was one of the bad choices,, there was another he referred to as a mad dog in a meat market... Oh Yeah, Clifford Charlton... Let's not forget right after that, Marty took Micheal Dean Perry or during years before that he took Webster Slaughter and Frank Winters who turned out to be a damn fine Center for Green Bay...
Oh, did I mention that on his watch, Bernie Kosar was drafted in the supplimental draft that summer of 85.. Martys first year as full time HC. (probably more Ernie Accorsis doing,, but still, Marty was there)
It should also be pointed out that he is one of only a handful of guys that took over a team that was losing horribly at mid season and coached them to a .500 record the rest of the way. He did that after he took over for Coach Sam..
So, yeah, we can pick on one or two draft picks, but when you look at his body of work, it's not that bad.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Marty started coaching in SD in 2002, and the team was a mess. Three years later (end of 2004 season), the team finished 12-4 and had the basis for sustained success. I will take 2-3 years of Marty to set the direction for the Browns and step aside for a replacement he selects (and not Norv Turner).
What was Marty doing on the radio anyway?
spide...this is 2008, headed to 2009 and Marty is now 65 yrs old and out of football for 2 yrs. Marty does not sound crazy about coming back as a coach and it appears to me he was on the radio to knock the story down before it went too far.
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All of this is idle speculation at this point. I have no idea if Marty will come back, and his comments on the radio and the lack of denials from the FO do not give us any indication one way or another. All I know is that Marty has built winning programs at three separate organizations - and he came within an Earnest-Byner-fumble-as-he-was-falling-into-the-end-zone of making it to a Super Bowl. If he chooses to come out of retirement, then I trust he can build the Browns to be a winner.
Yep, nothing but "speculation" on your part..
I'm looking for a long term fix that can lead to long term success for the Browns, not some "hopeful" short term fix from an old ball coach, lured out of retirement for just the money.
I believe Marty might be interested in helping the organization but I don't believe he wants to coach. Marty named only one person he was interested in working with folks...THAT WAS BILL COWHER.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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mac, I know you're probably the wrong one to ask, but how old was Reagan when he was elected to his second term? And you might not think so, but overall, he was fairly successfull at what he did. I think Marty has plenty of time left in the tank at 65 to be an NFL HC. And mentor somebody to take over when he's done......... No, I don't see that as a quick fix at all. JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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J/K Marty's age should not be a factor in hiring him or not, I know alot alot of older men who can work circles around men half thier age, it's not about the age it's about the man. So to say we cant hire him due to his age is well illegal....  , Just becuase someone is in thier 60's dosent mean thier mind starts to go either. Some people who are in thier 20's & 30's are dummer than a door knob, and Marty in his 60's is still sharp as a tac.
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Seriously, I can't believe people are using his age as a negative. There are tons of people working into their 80's now...and they are often times a lot smarter than the young go getters. 
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Man, all you dinosaurs are just getting offended. It's good to be 25. 
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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LOL. I got a couple decades before I get to Marty's age. You are just mad because people in their twenties aren't all that bright.
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Remember this board goes into a frenzy over two things..coaches and QB's.
There's gonna be a ton of illogical posts from now till weeks after a new HC is brought in.
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I've been staying away from the QB threads.....I guess I'll start staying out of these also.....
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I've been staying away from the QB threads.....I guess I'll start staying out of these also.....
That's just because you're so old and crotchety.
Stay off my lawn you damn kids!
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Question...
Anyone remember Marty's record vs. Pittsburgh?
That weighs HEAVILY into my thoughts. I wanna beat those subhuman scum.
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Marty was 7-2 vs. the steelers, including a 6-0 run. I remember Webster Slaughter saying when asked about the Three Rivers jinx, "What jinx? I've never lost there" after his first few seasons. That's enough for me to welcome Marty back.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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LOL. I got a couple decades before I get to Marty's age.
You are just mad because people in their twenties aren't all that bright.
I know I'm not. I'm getting married for crying out loud. How dumb is that!?
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Mike Junkin was one of the bad choices,, there was another he referred to as a mad dog in a meat market... Oh Yeah, Clifford Charlton..
pssst Junkin was the "mad dog in a meat market"
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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LOL. I got a couple decades before I get to Marty's age
decades are longer than 365 days
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Ahh,, Junkin was the maddog,,, OK,, then I got that wrong.. but I got everything else right... right? 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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You are just mad because people in their twenties aren't all that bright.
Very true. You get dumber as you get older, so I am the smartest person on this board.
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I don't want a 65 yr old coach who has seen his best days and I don't want his son who has never been a head coach in the NFL.
I just read something that Marty supposedly said..that his life has change and he wouldnt mind a job like Parcells has. He did name a person he would not mind working with though.
I want a coach that knows how to beat the teams that are once again, at the top of our division, the Steelers and Ravens. I want a coach who is experienced as a head coach who can coach the Browns for the next 5-10 yrs if he wants.
Last night I heard the ESPN commentators discussing who might be the Browns HC next season if Crennel is not retained. One of them mentioned what I pointed out above...
...that the Browns need a HC who knows the teams in this division and knows what it takes to beat those teams at the top of this division...they said Bill Cowher would be the best choice Randy Lerner could make.
I also heard one the ESPN commentators say that Cowher was not interested in the job. He didn't give a source for his comment so it's hard to judge if it's just opinion or fact.
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Yeah, the word going around is Cower doesn't want the Cleveland job.
I do want a coach that has been a NFL HC. So keeping with that and if you want a coach that knows the AFC North would you be willing to bring in Brian Billick?
He know the AFC North, he has a Superbowl ring and this will be the best offense he has coached and he in known for being an Offensive guru.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Sources: Browns eye Schottenheimer
for potential vacancy
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