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I largely agree.
I would rather have something new and fresh.
Not that it has never happened, but coaches have a hard time finding lightening in a bottle the second time around.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I'll answer, Peen, though I"m sure you won't like it  It's "both". You cannot have a first time GM, HC, OC, and DC. It is too much inexperience.
That's very logical and makes a lot of sense.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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What has Romeo done to justify remaining with the team in some capacity? Exactly what job is that he has shown he deserves? I hope it isn't DC.
As far as him saying "screw it" ... sorry, I think he did. He did things his way, wins be damned ... and continued that approach until the ship hit the bottom of the ocean ... hey, at least he is consistent.
CoachB, I have been saying the lack of experience in those positions has killed us for months now. I agreed with every single word of your post ... imagine that ... you finally typed something sensible ... LOL.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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J/C.....I really don't understand the enamor with Cowher. What team has Cowher ever buult? He hasn't, he took over a base from Chuck Noll and maintained it. Yes, he's fiery on the sidelines, but that doesn't mean he can build a franchise. IMO, Coach Shott is much more proven in being able to rebuild a franchise, even if he can't win in the playoffs.
I agree with you. I was asking for Marty LAST YEAR! Cowher simply stepped into an ideal situation with a very grounded and well built franchise. I would rather have him than a guy with no NFL HC experience. But the only real thing I can think of where Cowher is rather interesting is that he knows our division like the back of his hand. Otherwise, I'd rather have Marty hands down. If anybody knows how to "build a team", it's Marty IMO
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Sorry, but I want to throw as much cash at someone that has PROVEN they can build a winning franchise. I still maintain that if you throw those kind of numbers at Holmgren, he will take the job. All the ingredients are there with Holmgren....he's proven to be an excellant coach at developing QBs, he has gone to the Super Bowl 3 times, and he has built 2 franchises and brought them to respectability. That resume is BY FAR the most impressive one out there including Cowher.
He has a great body of work. But as of late it may be a tough sell. He hasn't exactly lit things up in Seattle. But once again, I think he's FAR more qualified to "build a team" than Cowher is. Because he inherrited one IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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What has Romeo done to justify remaining with the team in some capacity?
Little.
Just being soft here.
No new coach is going to want the old coach hanging around.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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What has Romeo done to justify remaining with the team in some capacity? Exactly what job is that he has shown he deserves? I hope it isn't DC.
Why not as a DC? He was the DC of the Super Bowl winning 2001, 2003, and 2004 Patriots teams.
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If they gave Romeo some job in player personnel or possibly some VP job that keeps him away from the bench I'd have no problem with that.
I doubt that RAC would take the DC's position here. Maybe someplace else, but not here. A little too embarassing, I'd think.
Same reason Phil won't stay if he's asked to give up some power.
And, honestly, given the results from these two guys in the last 4 years I don't think I'd especially miss either one.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Sources close to the situation have said that both men will probably be asked to step down from their current positions, as early as Monday. The only way anything would happen Sunday night is if one of them forced the issue, a source said.
who would those sources be... just wondering, Whoever they are, they sure know lots of stuff 
It must take a genuis to figure out that the end is near for either or both RAC and Savage..... we've only been talking about it for what,, maybe 3 months or so.
Whatever happens, I sure hope that Lerner has some answers for the big questions. And whatever we hear, I hope it comes directly from him and not from sources...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I really can't wait for after this game.
We better get it right this time, though. This franchise/fanbase can't take another wrong hire(s).
you had a good run Hank.
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One thing that to me was more revealing than anyother was the fact that this week passed and the Browns, specifically Savage didnt alter any contracts. In the final week of years passed he would use up the last of the remaining cap space by structuring contract extensions to be absorbed this season, thereby freeing up more future capspace.
The fact that nothing happened with the remaining money is an acknowledgment, it seems to me, that Savage doesn't see where he fits in to the clubs future.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/captainphil/browns bills sig 5.jpg) When it gets cold and snows and the wind blows, you gotta be able to run the ball. - TR
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What has Romeo done to justify remaining with the team in some capacity? Exactly what job is that he has shown he deserves? I hope it isn't DC.
Why not as a DC? He was the DC of the Super Bowl winning 2001, 2003, and 2004 Patriots teams.
I can't remember a scenario where a head coach took a demotion with the same team. he's a great defensive cordinator, but it compromises the chain of command. the new head coach would be already fighting an uphill climb, since some players just naturally would still go to romeo as if he was the head coach. that would really undermine the new coach. not to mention romeo might be meddlesome with the new coach. it would be akward to say the least.
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We haven't scored a touchdown in what 5 straight games? This is the NFL NFL! - What kind of NFL team can't score a touchdown over the course of 5 straight games!
The kind that throws a "Noodle Armed 3rd String QB" out there...And has as many as NINE at the LOS constantly cause they fear nothing...
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Any other good players on this team (Steinbach) was bought, any GM could have done that.
U guys need to be careful what u wish for...
Do u get off on the Free Agent/Trading bonanza Savage has displayed over the years???...Is the start of FA an exciting time in the off-season???...The going hard after Clements???...Signing Bentley???...Signing Steinbach???...Getting Williams & Rogers back to back???...Securing Fraley when were decimated at Center???
Do u get off on the Draft Day Dealings and Aggressiveness the guy's shown over the years???...Taking Edwards who was #1 on ours and many other Draft Boards that year???...Taking Thomas and finally addressing a sore spot on this team???...Coming back with the trade to land Quinn at 20 in the same draft???...And coming back and landing a highly touted CB in Wright in the same draft???...Three of the toughest Franchise positions to land in the NFL...ALL ON THE SAME DAY...
KISS IT ALL GOOD-BYE IF SAVAGE IS GONE!!!!!!!!!!
Some might like the fact that FA will mean virtually NOTHING to us anymore...And some may say we shouldn't have done any of it in the 1st place...Fine...Enjoy it cause when a Cowher comes in here there won't be anymore BIG names coming here...It's not how some of these guys do business...
And if Savage goes...This team will most likely be turned inside out...And rebuilt via the DRAFT...Can u say FIVE YEAR PLAN???...Make that SEVEN...Savage has brought ALOT of guys in here that would START and play pertinent roles on virtually any team in this league...And the list is LONG...
Hard to put a handle on exactly what went wrong this year...Unless u wanna stick to the "Coaching" thang...Along with Injuries and SOS...But the list of players on this team that would play PERTINENT roles on most any team is LONG...15 starters off the top of my head...That ain't too shabby after a year of CAP CLEARANCE before we could even START Re-Building...
Enjoy the change cause you'll be WHININ' again next year...And the next...And the next... 
Go Browns!!!
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I can't remember a scenario where a head coach took a demotion with the same team
That's cause it NEVER happens...
This talk of Crennel being kept on as DC...And Savage staying but giving up some resposibility is HILARIOUS...
Never gonna happen...Even in dreamland... 
Go Browns!!!
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I can't remember a scenario where a head coach took a demotion with the same team
That's cause it NEVER happens...
This talk of Crennel being kept on as DC...And Savage staying but giving up some resposibility is HILARIOUS...
Never gonna happen...Even in dreamland...
OMG.....people think that they will stay on in other capacities after being the head honchos????? 
If they are axed, they will be gone, as will the VAST majority of the coaching staff.
If they are axed, the planned system may change drastically, requiring an overhaul in what was being built.
I hope the new guy (if we get one) comes in with the technology to prevent any injuries or dissension, and the wherewithal to be able to instill discipline and fire in the player's hearts and bellies. I hope he is a mind reader during the annual player selection meeting, and has extrasensory perception when it comes to game planning and making halftime adjustments as well as hypnotic powers in order to be able to sign Free Agents for low amounts of money.
Maybe he will bring me a pony for Christmas too. 
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seriously...
If Romeo stayed.... I would be hella shocked...
Only time I would ever see that happening was if he had HUGE ROOTS here in Cleveland, and really loved the Browns....
but.. he doesn't... lol
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He's not staying unless it is far from the field, deep in some basement office.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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J/C.....I really don't understand the enamor with Cowher. What team has Cowher ever buult? He hasn't, he took over a base from Chuck Noll and maintained it. Yes, he's fiery on the sidelines, but that doesn't mean he can build a franchise. IMO, Coach Shott is much more proven in being able to rebuild a franchise, even if he can't win in the playoffs.
Sorry, but I want to throw as much cash at someone that has PROVEN they can build a winning franchise. I still maintain that if you throw those kind of numbers at Holmgren, he will take the job. All the ingredients are there with Holmgren....he's proven to be an excellant coach at developing QBs, he has gone to the Super Bowl 3 times, and he has built 2 franchises and brought them to respectability. That resume is BY FAR the most impressive one out there including Cowher.
CoachB....Cowher has not had the opportunity to rebuild other franchises like Marty has, and if one looks at the that fact, you could view it as a positive.
For some reason, throughout Marty's long coaching career, he finds something to make a job ending stand on and is fired or quits and moves on to the next job. It seems there is always some kind of controversy surrounding Marty when he decides he has had enough working with each franchise. Marty just does not seem to be the kind of guy a franchise looks to for long term fixes.
Cowher, on the other hand has worked with a Steelers franchise ownership that is not considered one of the NFL's big spenders and yet found a way to maintain his teams respect and kept his job for 15 seasons.
It's really hard to say that Cowher's ability to hold on to one job 15 yrs and bring a Super Bowl to that team is a negative.
Then there is the age factors to consider with Marty being 65 and Cowher being 53. Recent comments by Marty could be interrupted to mean that Marty is done with coaching but might consider an executive job in the front office..a job similar to what Percells is doing for the Dolphins.
I'm not against Marty being part of the Browns organization but I don't believe he wants to coach any longer. Throwing a bunch of money at someone who is looking forward to retirement is not the answer IMO.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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And if Savage goes...This team will most likely be turned inside out...And rebuilt via the DRAFT...Can u say FIVE YEAR PLAN???...Make that SEVEN...Savage has brought ALOT of guys in here that would START and play pertinent roles on virtually any team in this league...And the list is LONG...
Yes, I don't believe the team will be rebuilt at all. No manager evaluates our talent and lets everyone go.
And how many guys. Not our runningbacks. Braylon Edwards (of course we used our number 3 on him), Thomas and Steinbach were great pickups (of course Thomas was grabbed with our number 3, it was an easy call), Fraley was only grabbed after our backup center quit (and he's below average). Quinn was a decent pickup, but we really don't know how great yet.
Wimbley hasn't done anything. Nor has the rest of our linebacking core.
I don't think some new coach or manager is going to come in and cut, Thomas, Rogers, Cribbs, Steinbach, Quinn, Williams, Pool, or any of our young corners. They won't lose Edwards or Winslow without decent compensation. Beyond those guys I don't see anyone that is inexpendable. May be Wimbley.
Savage really hasn't done that much for us. It's been four years, we had a winning season once. Let's remember that Savage has done nothing for us with late picks. He got Cribbs, Alex Hall might end up being good. Brandon McDonald is a good guy...........
I'm happy with where he'd be leaving us, and i'd say, goodbye to him. Time for a new organization.
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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And if Savage goes...This team will most likely be turned inside out...And rebuilt via the DRAFT...Can u say FIVE YEAR PLAN???...Make that SEVEN...Savage has brought ALOT of guys in here that would START and play pertinent roles on virtually any team in this league...And the list is LONG...
Yes, I don't believe the team will be rebuilt at all. No manager evaluates our talent and lets everyone go.
And how many guys. Not our runningbacks. Braylon Edwards (of course we used our number 3 on him), Thomas and Steinbach were great pickups (of course Thomas was grabbed with our number 3, it was an easy call), Fraley was only grabbed after our backup center quit (and he's below average). Quinn was a decent pickup, but we really don't know how great yet.
Wimbley hasn't done anything. Nor has the rest of our linebacking core.
I don't think some new coach or manager is going to come in and cut, Thomas, Rogers, Cribbs, Steinbach, Quinn, Williams, Pool, or any of our young corners. They won't lose Edwards or Winslow without decent compensation. Beyond those guys I don't see anyone that is inexpendable. May be Wimbley.
Savage really hasn't done that much for us. It's been four years, we had a winning season once. Let's remember that Savage has done nothing for us with late picks. He got Cribbs, Alex Hall might end up being good. Brandon McDonald is a good guy...........
I'm happy with where he'd be leaving us, and i'd say, goodbye to him. Time for a new organization.
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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Just a general reply: Romeo staying as DC are you people on dope? Well that wasnt to general but first off who would do that and secondly why would you want him to be DC? Has our defence improved at all in 4 years? No infact it was just as good if not better in year 1 of the Romeo regime.
As for Pioli, umm do we really want another guy that rode the Belliache bandwagon and didnt really have the say.
I think right now you are better off staying with Savage and giving him a shot to hire his own coach. The Browns do need a new guy to do the talking for Savage because well when it comes to talking to the press the guy is like Romeo in crunch time.
I think a Savage/Rex Ryan combo would be awesome.
Cowher or Holmgreen would bring in their own guy and that would be fine.
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I wonder about Rex Ryan ! .. I know you are a big fan .. His work seems to speaks for itself .. I am still not a big Savage fan ...
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Do u get off on the Free Agent/Trading bonanza Savage has displayed over the years???...Is the start of FA an exciting time in the off-season???...The going hard after Clements???...Signing Bentley???...Signing Steinbach???...Getting Williams & Rogers back to back???...Securing Fraley when were decimated at Center???
Do u get off on the Draft Day Dealings and Aggressiveness the guy's shown over the years???...Taking Edwards who was #1 on ours and many other Draft Boards that year???...Taking Thomas and finally addressing a sore spot on this team???...Coming back with the trade to land Quinn at 20 in the same draft???...And coming back and landing a highly touted CB in Wright in the same draft???...Three of the toughest Franchise positions to land in the NFL...ALL ON THE SAME DAY...
Where did all this wheeling and dealing get us?
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What this franchise needs is Bill Parcells.
Randy has the bank account to make it happen.
I think he could turn this franchise around quickly and make it viable in no time at all.
Look at Miami.
He has turned around every franchise he has been associated with.Give him a piece of the pie if you have to, but to me that would be the way to go.
JMHO though.
Hope springs eternal in the heart of a true Browns fan. GO BROWNS!!!!!
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of course Thomas was grabbed with our number 3, it was an easy call
I am sick of reading this garbage. How many people here and in the media said we should pick AP or Quinn? We had needs at those positions, but Savage did the right thing and drafted the Left Tackle who's going to be the cornerstone of this franchise for years to come. Savage was able to avoid going after the stud sexy pick and instead got the guy we really needed. That was a GREAT pick.
I say we give Savage another chance. I don't want to start completely over. We need some continuity. Savage has brought in talent and has shown to be very aggressive in both Free Agency and the draft. No one will get this team winning than him. I don't want someone who only gets players in the draft. If we want to win soon, we need Free Agents.
I'm not necessarily opposed to us firing Romeo, but I'm not certain that it is the right move. My only problems with bringing Cowher or Mary in are that they might want too much control. Even if we do fire Savage, I want a GM and Head Coach combo, not one person doing it all. And anyone who thinks that Savage or Romeo will stay here in some lesser role is crazy. No one stays somewhere they just got fired from. And no Head Coach we bring in would want Romeo as his DC either. That creates some sticky situations with players and the chain of command. It's not going to happen.
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I'll side with Reggie Rucker.."Get this stink outta here"!
Romeo, Savage and the staff, regardless of what good guys they may or may not be, need to depart!
I want a long term coach here. Cowher would be nice yes, but he aint staying on 10 years no matter how good things may or may not get.
...Pioli/McDaniels in 09...
Gives you vast experience with a new, young and excited perspective on the field!
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We've had zero continuity in four years and if there was any it was continued
sinking into the cellar!
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There are only acoupla scenerios where Savage would be let go,the odds of either happening are extreme.
Let's not forget that Mary Kaye has had a hardon,so to speak,for Savage for several weeks now.She is simply taking a different journalistic tact than the fire Romeo crowd.Her sources may well be Shaun Smith,he's always texting her.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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I don't want to start completely over
Nobody does.....but if you are on the road to nowhere, you have to start over.
And...it won't be a total start over. We have some parts that will work.
I don't think Savage will get canned so much for his selection of players. I think it will be more for the manner in which he managed things. That is the hard part of the job. Selecting players is the easy part. You could do that and not just pick totally off the wall players. It isn't that hard.
Lerner has to make a change at coach...everybody knows that. As more and more comes out about the relationship Romeo and savage had...a seeming disconnect on player selection, few really good coaches are going to want to take the job here under the current set-up. Phil is going to have to give up having roster control. Seeing that was the only reason(in his words) he came to Cleveland, he is going to step down.
Those guys had enough time. The team didn't get better, and in fact fell apart.
It has to change. Lerner can't afford to stick it out another year in the hope it turns around.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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90% of the Cleveland sports writers have a boner for Romeo and it smacks them that the fans are not happy with their buddy romeo. Thats why they are out there tying to put blame on Savage.
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Where did all this wheeling and dealing get us?
BONAFIDE...Quality NFL Starters...
Everyone's bitchin' about the Coaching...Then the Players...
WHICH IS IT??????????
The entire team don't need up and down the roster top tier players...
The CORE is here...And will get better with this draft...
And BTW...Unless we get a serious serious sense that Edwards will not re-sign any extension we talk about...I say KEEP him...If we get any inclination he won't sign???...Highest bidder time...
And I'd bet the house we could get a FIRST for em' come draft day...This is a talent...Other teams know it...Regardless of the drops this year...The kid's a 1st round talent TODAY...Mouth or not...He's not trouble...And Tabber...Teams don't need to wait till he's a FA...Bidding wars...He goes NOW and signs a new long termer...
And DAMN as I speak...Mort's reporting BOTH Savage and Crennel will be asked to step down...
!@!@#@#$#$#^#@@!@##$$^##@ 
Go Browns!!!
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I agree with you. I believe you keep Savage. Just let him know that he needs to decide on what type of team he wants to put on the field (identity) and sign and draft players according to that. Oh yeah, and sign a coach that fits that mold as well, preferrably a head coach with prior experience on the NFL level as a head coach.
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He really went out on a limb there lol.
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90% of the Cleveland sports writers have a boner for Romeo and it smacks them that the fans are not happy with their buddy romeo. Thats why they are out there tying to put blame on Savage.
Come on Mour...I don't buy that.
I know you want Savage to be able to hire his own coach.
I know you have a mind that can wrap around a idea....so how about the idea Romeo was Savages coach??
Not from the beginning....but from the extension.
If Savage pushed for the extension 2 years ago and Lerner went along since his GM was pushing it...that could be his hire in Lerners mind.
IMO, that was the point where Romeo and Savage became tied at the hip.
Phil may still be able to survive this....but this isn't media driven. You can look back as far as Collins to see where Savage has been mismanaging various situations.
Just a thought.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I'll answer, Peen, though I"m sure you won't like it It's "both". You cannot have a first time GM, HC, OC, and DC. It is too much inexperience.
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That's very logical and makes a lot of sense.
Ya know, that does make lots of sense... fits very well.
What doesn't fit is that if this is actually the case, then aren't we all being unfair in our expectations of success for this short time frame? Shouldn't we allow for a longer learning curve?
Just a thought
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Apr 2007
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I just can't see any good scenarios here.
Savage looses power. Savage gains an attitude?
Savage stays. Do we really move far enough away from the present?
Savage hires his own coach. Is it somebody he can manipulate?
Lerner hires a coach. What's Savage's relationship with said coach?
It just needs blown up IMO.
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Joined: Nov 2008
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Dawg Talker
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I will not post rumors that are flying on another site.... But You don't just fire your GM and Coach unless you have some concrete proof that your intentions will be fullfilled...right? Isn't that against NFL rules..specifically the Rooney rule? My guess is Lerner has had talks with the people and third party aquaintances for the guys he would like to hire..just my guess.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,810
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,810 |
Quote:
Just a general reply: Romeo staying as DC are you people on dope? Well that wasnt to general but first off who would do that and secondly why would you want him to be DC? Has our defence improved at all in 4 years? No infact it was just as good if not better in year 1 of the Romeo regime.
Mourg...and by "general reply", I hope you not referring to me...
I can't see Crennel staying aboard as DC or anything else to do with the defense given their record.
Only if a new head coach wanted Crennel, would I even consider him returning...then I would begin to question the judgement of the incoming head coach.
I just don't see Crennel being with the Browns after tomorrow.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Wasnt refering to you mac, lol and Peen I know Savage wanted Chud's extension but I havent heard anything at all saying he was wanting romeo's
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Quote:
Where did all this wheeling and dealing get us?
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BONAFIDE...Quality NFL Starters...
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The CORE is here...And will get better with this draft...
Dude, when Savage arrived, one of the first things he did was rid us of Butch Davis's defensive line. - That same identical defensive line led Denver to the AFC championship game in 2005. - What has the defensive line that he assmebled done for us?
Youv'e been led to believe that when he arrived here there was nothing. Look at what we have since he's been here. Look what Baltimore has had since he left. Look at what some of our former players have done since Savage ridded us of them. - Jeff Faine ring a bell? How about Brian Russell?
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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I think we found out who the fan was who Savage cussed at in the email. You're seriously upset that Savage got rid of our old D-line? Seriously? Gerard Warren? You wanted to keep him? Give me a break. I think Savage has done just fine here. Has he missed on some? Yes. Has he hit a homer on some? Yes. And, you can't have it both ways. You can't say that the good picks he's brought in were "no-brainers", but the guys he missed on were totally his fault. Plus, I just don't like the idea of constantly changing the ENTIRE regime. I also don't like continuity for continuity's sake. But, I think Savage has done well enough to stay on here. JMHO As for RAC, I don't see any possibility that he stays on, not if Lerner wants people to buy tickets next year. Once again, JMHO
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns will not rush into
decisions on RAC and Savage/Maybe
Monday??
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