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DCDAWGFAN, Quote:
No, I'm not going to try to tell you that.. I'm just going to tell you... Gill got into coaching 19 years ago, about 13 of those years he was a college QB coach.. he was so good at it that he got out of coaching for a year and did player development for the Packers on matters of community involvement, financial planning, etc.. then he was hired by Buffalo where he had a year or two of success in the MAC....
Chizik has about the same amount of time in coaching and was a defensive position coach for a quite a while, as the DC at Auburn for 3 years, in 2 of those years he had the 5th ranked defense in the nation in the toughest conference around. Then he went to Texas as the DC and they won the national championship. Then to Iowa State.
So if you think 2 years of relative success as the HC at Buffalo is that much greater than Chizik's success in the SEC and Big 12 as a DC, then so be it.. But when I heard the comments I wasn't familiar with either guy, I just assumed that Gill's resume must be head and shoulders better.. and to be honest, I'm not seeing it.
I can agree with that synopsis for the most part. But like I said, when Chizik had the chance to be the man, he did not get it done. If you look at him and Sly Croom at Miss State, they are almost the EXACT program. Iowa State and Miss State are really B-Ball schools trying to build football programs in a state with an Established state school as the football power. Croom did a much better job than Chizik and this was after he was Shafted out of the Alabama job.
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Not really, when you think of football talent, do you think of Iowa State? If anything, the guys he's recruiting have far more and better options than somebody being recruited by Buffalo.
NO, I cannot give you that one. You come from Iowa State, you atleast get in some doors with that, with Buffalo, you are even getting invited!
Gill might need another 2 or 4 years to really have a shot at a bigger school but other than Chizik's relationship with Auburn, he has done not much. Plus, Chizik worked for the person that Auburn just replaced for some silly reason.
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Quote:
But like I said, when Chizik had the chance to be the man, he did not get it done.
I would say that he never really had a chance to develop his own players to see if he could get it done or not. I know his recruiting classes were generally ranked down in the 60s, which appears to be fairly common for that school... but he runs a Tampa 2 style defense, which he learned from Dungy and Lovie Smith (hard to argue with those credentials).. and maybe he just didn't have the players to run it? I don't know.
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Gill might need another 2 or 4 years to really have a shot at a bigger school
And I'm sure he will get it if Buffalo keeps winning.
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but other than Chizik's relationship with Auburn, he has done not much.
I would still disagree.. highly successful DC at Auburn and Texas over a 4 or 5 year period... that's more than enough to get you qualified for a big time HC job. In most cases that will qualify you over a good HC at a small program... which is what happened here.
Let me ask you a couple questions just for fun.. do you think Gill would have been successful at Iowa State? and 2, if Tuberville had been fired 3 years ago, who would you have said deserved the job, the guy who was the DC of top ranked defenses in the SEC and Big 12 or the guy who was doing player development, community outreach and financial planning for the Packers? 
yebat' Putin
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DC, I said earlier, I usually like to look at a coach, especially college coaches after 5 years because they have a chance to recruit and fully implement their systems in that amount of time. Chizik only had 2 years but those were a dreadful 2 years. Quote:
Let me ask you a couple questions just for fun.. do you think Gill would have been successful at Iowa State? and 2, if Tuberville had been fired 3 years ago, who would you have said deserved the job, the guy who was the DC of top ranked defenses in the SEC and Big 12 or the guy who was doing player development, community outreach and financial planning for the Packers?
As far as Gill at Iowa State, he would need the full 5 years to really establish his name in the state plus see how he was recruiting. A big win vs Iowa would be good also. As far as 3 years ago, remember Auburn wanted the coach from Louisville(Petrino) at the time, did not get him but did not replace Tuberville with his assistants! SO they did not think much of Chizik at that time! And think about it, THAT was the time to get him because Alabama had not real presence at that time.
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So, back to the question:
Is there anything that we can see which would even remotely indicate Auburn didn't want Gill because he is black?
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Is there anything that we can see which would even remotely indicate Auburn didn't want Gill because he is black?
Nope, nothing really. But it is not like Auburn was going to announce that it was not hiring a black head coach anyway! Now I did look at what Barkley said and Barkley said that Chizik had the weakest resume of ALL the coaches interviewed. So if that is the case, why him?? Probably ties to the school. Why not Gill?? Maybe not a person from the SEC. But it was not based on his coaching or wins/losses! Since Barkley might have been on the selection committee or at minimum is a high contributing alumni, maybe he knows something we do not.
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Hehehe.......Knowing Barkley and how he can't keep his mouth shut, if he knew anything about anything, he'd say it outright.
I'll say one more thing before I leave for work. It can easily be debated whether or not Chizik is more qualified than Gill. That's one discussion. What Barkley said is another.
Racism perpetuates racism, and Barkley isn't doing anyone justice by going this route.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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If you want to argue that Chizik wasn't the best choice.. I'm probably inclined to agree. I found an article with a list of people who interviewed for the job, I'm not sure how many of them were serious, or who was considered or how the decision was made... but this is the list (some are HC some are coordinators)...
Brady Hoke, Ball State
Derek Dooley, LA Tech
Turner Gill, Buffalo
Gary Patterson, TCU
Jim Grobe, Wake Forest
Todd Graham, Tulsa
Rodney Garner, Georgia
Patrick Nix, Miami
All of them are white except Rodney Garner and some of them have more impressive resumes than Chizik and Gill combined... why weren't they offered a job? Like I said, I'll buy that he wasn't the best choice, but he wasn't even the best white choice.. so I don't take exception to Barkley saying it was a bad hire, I take exception to him saying it was racially motivated.
yebat' Putin
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The last time he was at Auburn in 2004, with some talent, he gave up 11.3... then he was the DC of Texas's national championship team..
I've read both resumes now and I don't see where Gill is any kind of a lock... His whole claim to fame is that he has had 2 decent seasons at Buffalo..... Chizik has a pretty darn good resume, aside from his 2 seasons as head coach of the worst team in the best conference in America...
Thanks DC, I've been trying to say the same thing. I take nothing away from Gill and what he did at Buffalo is a great accomplishment but it was not an impossible job.
Trying to turn Iowa State into a contender in the Big 12 is an impossible job. Hell they can't even out recruit Iowa let alone the teams in thier confrence. You can bring Pete Carrol into Iowa State they would still be a bottom feeder.
In it's 116 year history Iowa State has 2 confrence titles (0 Big 12 titles) and 0 National Titles. This year the Big 12 is the best confrence. Last year I'd say it was the Second best behind the SEC. Trying to compete in the Big 12 the last two years is not the same as compeating in the MAC.
This is bs. Dan Mcarney had some success at Iowa State. at one stretch he went to 5 bowl games in 6 seasons. He won 9 games in 2000 when he had sage rosenfels at quarterback. Seneca Wallace played under mcarney as well. It's not like iowa state has been duke the last 15 years. I hate when people make up inaccurate info.
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This is bs. Dan Mcarney had some success at Iowa State. at one stretch he went to 5 bowl games in 6 seasons. He won 9 games in 2000 when he had sage rosenfels at quarterback. Seneca Wallace played under mcarney as well. It's not like iowa state has been duke the last 15 years. I hate when people make up inaccurate info.
Please point to where any of my info was inaccurate.
Here are some cold hard facts. In 2000 when they won 9 games they finish 5th in the Big 12. Yeah.....wow.....your right Trella they are such an elite program. 
Or how about since the Big 12 has started the average standing Iowa State has is 11th out of 12 in the confrence?
I didn't make up anything but you want to ignore facts. 
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I thought he made some valide points....they hired a guy that was a failure for 2 years in his current role vs. a guy who was a success....i don't doubt race might have crept into the minds of the decision makers.
I'm usually on the other fence and believe some people cry wolf, but I can see the argument for this one.
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As I said above, I'd buy that argument if Gill's resume was head and shoulders above everybodys, but there were other white candidates who appear to be much more qualified than Gill or Chizik who weren't offered the job... that I can't explain using race as an argument.
yebat' Putin
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Even more damning is that Barkley didn't just say race played a role in it. He said race was the number one reason Gill didn't get the gig.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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you said they could bring pete carrol in and still be a bottom feeder. that tells me that you characterize them as bottom feeders similar to duke.If you go to 5 bowl games in 6 years, that tells me that you're at least mediocre to good. that tells me that you could get quality players in to play unlike what you are saying. when I think of hopeless programs, I think of baylor, duke, temple,smu, kent state, vanderbilt, etc. I don't think of Iowa State. they're no powerhouse, but they're far from hopeless. With a good head coach, they could win 9-10 games again. I never thought rutgers, ball state, northwestern, and washington state, could win either. A good coach could turn any program around. I believe that.
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