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Mangini/Kokinis sure feels like Crennel/Savage: PART 2 to me. They had better get along REALLY well and be on the same damn page w/ what they want to establish.
Well, I would like to go on record by saying...if this happens.....WE ARE SCREWWWEEEDD.....  ....  .......  ....... 
Sure, Mangini had 2 winning seasons, with the Jets........but that is nothing to write home about.......Heck, Romeo had 1 winning season too........
Three of the last four Super Bowl-winning coaches (Tom Coughlin, Tony Dungy and Belichick) were with their second team.
http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009901040415
Yeah, the BEST recipe for success in the NFL in recent history is not the way to go by any means. Let's do something else!
So your ok with Cowher, Shanahan and Billick then also? All have more success and would be working with thier 2nd gig if i'm not mistaken. 
Dick Vermeil (Eagles, Rams), Mike Holmgren(Packers, Seahawks), Dan Reeves(Broncos, Falcons), Bill Parcells(Giants, Patriots)
I believe that is the list of coaches who has led multiple teams to a Super Bowl....of that list...only Vermeil won with the 2nd team.
HACK
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Which is why I'm only "okay" with some other options Hack.
I'm looking at the "best odds of recent success".
And it's a second time NFL HC who didn't win a SB the first go round.
Three out of the last four SB's is a little hard to argue that formula isn't the most successfull one going IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Dawg in D...that is the key. A true marriage between HC and GM.
I think Randy can live with any GM that comes hand picked by a strong coach. But he seems to have a problem with the HC that comes hand picked by a strong GM.
I don't quite agree with Randy in his reservations of cne and not the other.
But I also know that Randy is committed to have a proper marriage between the two.
He tried being his own matchmaker and it didn't work out. RAC was submissive and the Alpha Male kept wanting more n more power. It was turning out that until Savage had full power he wouldn't be satisfied.
I see where that sort of scares Randy from the GM Alpha Male syndrone but I think he's wrong as long as he believes in that GM and then lets him hand pick his HC.
So Randy might feel comfortable in the other direction. Actually an exact duplicate of the Bellicheck formula.
I do know Mangini and Spagnoula both had an intense and in depth interview and both showed that they have distinct ideas and direction of what they want/need for them to have a Long Term winning organization.
Kokinis...has the same brilliance in personnel abilities as did Savage - he also has been a close friend to Mangini...and just like Pioli and Ferentz talked about one day bringing a winner to Cleveland...so did Mangini and Kokinis.
btw what a hot bed of young minds...my goodness did we have a great thing brewing here. Ozzie, Savage, Pioli, Kokinis, Mangini, Saban, Ferentz...all young, all working on the cheap...all falling in love with Browns football...well Ozzie, Saban and Ferentz maybe had loyalties that flowed elsewhere - but the others never had it fall too far from their hearts.
Kokinis I remember was suppose to be a brilliant personnel guy and the Ravens locked him up quickly as it was mentioned that Savage was going to try to lure him away. Actually I rememeber the Ravens PR people stating that he was better than Savage...of course what else are they going to say...lol 
But obviously an up-coming young mind who has sat and talked with his friend Mangini about someday working together and somehow doing IT RIGHT!
I've met some Manufacturers with the same aspirations. Those who pull the trigger and go and do it...find it hard at first but because they are dedicated to their ideas and are PROUD of the product they wish to produce end up being the most successful in their field.
I just think Randy might not be perfect...I'm fine with Pioli and Ferentz and don't share the fears that Randy does. But I also more than welcome Mangini and his choice of GM which happens to be a pretty good choice! In being a winning formula...and I hope RAC comes with them as our DC 
Shanahan...I think if we didn't make a decision in 2 weeks it will be because we got something hot going with Spagnoulo. I don't see Randy giving Shanahan the keys...and Shanahan doesn't seem to want to consider anything else but.
So kiss that one good bye. I like the Mangini Kokinis duo better than the Cowher/McCreighton duo (not knowing who Cowher had in mind...Marty would have had me favor that duo Cowher/Marty)
Pioli and Ferentz/McDaniels is still possible I think thats still plan "A", but somethings have to obviously be worked out. Mangini n Kokinis as plan B works just as well with me...the more I think about it I might like that combo even better.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
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GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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If Dungy leaves, Jim Caldwell (I believe that is his name) will succeed Tony. It's in his contract so they don't need to adhere to the Rooney Rule. So Shanahan can wait all year, he ain't going to Indy. At least not as HC.
Someone also mentioned Mariucci. From what little I've read he's perfectly happy with his gig at NFL Network. So I wouldn't count on him either.
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If that's the case, then waiting to see what Shanahan want's to do becomes a bit more plausible.
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Themore I think about it and research it. The more I am liking this idea of Mangini and it may be my favorite option right now.He ssems like a pretty bright guy and doesn't speak in circles or cliches like RAC. Here are some videos of him I found interesting. Coach Mangini's NY Jets Camp For Kids(old but a good story) http://www.youtube.com/v/_CA_msW0NcYPhilosophy(after winning 2006 AFC Coach of the Year) http://www.videosurf.com/video...osophy-12088331Consistancy(taped before the Jets meltdown) http://www.videosurf.com/video/mangini...stency-52941827"The importance of character" http://www.youtube.com/v/8uozpLRL7Rwhttp://www.videosurf.com/video/mangini-wired-30681 775 http://www.videosurf.com/video...mentum-50382781 And digging through some Jets boards they say Mangini's players couldn't stand him after the first offseason. They hated the grueling camps he put them through, the laps he'd make them run for mistakes, etc, etc. Then they turned a 4-12 team into a 10-6 team, made the playoffs, and he earned their respect. He has a very much all business approach in training camp, and he's really big on keeping his guys in shape and playing smart football. He did stuff like making the players practicing in cold, winds, rain, and almost all practices have music blaring over the loudspeakers to emulate crowd noise. The Jets were always low on penalties and conditioning was pretty much never a problem. When they acquired Kris Jenkins, he made sure weight provisions were put into his contract. He actually gets monetary bonuses for keeping his weight down. Mangini don't **** around.
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And digging through some Jets boards they say
Mangini's players couldn't stand him after the first offseason. They hated the grueling camps he put them through, the laps he'd make them run for mistakes, etc, etc. Then they turned a 4-12 team into a 10-6 team, made the playoffs, and he earned their respect. He has a very much all business approach in training camp, and he's really big on keeping his guys in shape and playing smart football. He did stuff like making the players practicing in cold, winds, rain, and almost all practices have music blaring over the loudspeakers to emulate crowd noise.
The Jets were always low on penalties and conditioning was pretty much never a problem. When they acquired Kris Jenkins, he made sure weight provisions were put into his contract. He actually gets monetary bonuses for keeping his weight down. Mangini don't **** around.
Yep, this what we need. This guy is the anti Romeo. I am so sick of all these "players coaches" who pussyfoot around with the players. You are not supposed to like your coach, respect him?? Yes Like Him?? No. They will hate you at first, but when you build them into winners, they will respect you and like you. Think of all the great coaches throughout football history,college and pro. How many of them were liked? Respected and loved maybe, but not liked at many points.
KING
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Sounds very Bill B'esque!
I stated earlier that Randy was walking a fine line with the timing of this.
Too early and you may miss out on somebody not freed up yet and too late and you miss out on the guy you may have really wanted.
Mangini is sounding better all the time! Without discipline as a foundation you'll have chaos!
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I am not big on RAC's style of defense... I prefer the Lebeu, Phillips attacking style of 3-4... Movements, disguised blitzes... Maybe it is just because we didn't have the personnel for it... 
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I'd like to know with Mangini being fired how about his coach's... If he hired them would Marty's boy come over as OC....or would only a HC job get him away?
nordawg
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I'd like to know with Mangini being fired how about his coach's... If he hired them would Marty's boy come over as OC....or would only a HC job get him away?
nordawg
Reports out of NYC say that Brian is the leader for the Jets HC job.
you had a good run Hank.
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Mangini favorite in Cleveland, but nothing certain Posted: January 4th, 2009 | Adam Schefter | Tags: Eric Mangini, NFL coaching search, Randy Lerner, Ron Rivera, Steve Spagnuolo Some Sunday morning samplings from men around the league … * Despite the fact that former Jets coach Eric Mangini is being touted as the front runner for the Cleveland head coaching job, remember this: Browns owner Randy Lerner is very unpredictable. He often goes against just what everybody is expecting. Just saying …. * If Mangini does get the Cleveland job, let this serve as a warning to any holdover Browns assistant coaches. The prevailing thought amongst Jets assistant coaches is that few enjoyed working for Mangini. Perhaps being fired will force him to change some ideas and philosophies — it often does. But Manigni was harldy the most well-liked guy in the Jets training complex. * As much as the Jets and Broncos like Giants defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo, he has a battling disadvantage he can’t help. No one can sign him until after Giants are finished. * Chargers defensive coordinator Ron Rivera is coaching himself back into the running for a coaching job. The way he slowed down the Colts on Saturday night was the finest advertisement he could get for head coaching interviews. Schefter
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Agreed! It ain't summer camp; psitive "player coach" squishy warmish feelings are for the birds. Certainly mattered with the likes of some underachievers like BE, the KW Duece, and some others. I mean if you could trade it for points, or it improved tackling, or just made you catch the ball, it might matter (certainly more than it does to me today). A message of "play to stay" which seems to be NE fer shure, from the top down, and back it up is much in order. If Mangini brings it, Pioli backs it, etc., then great. We have been too squishy too long. I want a return to Browns football of my youth, and I am really OK if it is without RAC. Unless he promises blitz packages, better D in every category, turn the corner. I see him gone or at least not in the DC position given the crap I have watched and suffered through. No Tucker either in any capacity. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Tucker can coach for sure....His work with DB's has always been top notch. Was he ready for DC, not sure....maybe under a different coach he would be.
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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Tucker can coach for sure....His work with DB's has always been top notch. Was he ready for DC, not sure....maybe under a different coach he would be.
If RAC was hampered by Phils style of leadership then it would go without saying that Tucker also couldn't perform to his abilities.
I'd love to be able to say it was all on Savage and these guys are geniuses,I just can't though.... 
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Short and Quick  Mangini might work , but I would like Mr. Lerner to say what so compelling about Mangini's interview ?....We still need a quality GM = NOT A Rookie , = Especially NOT another from Baltimore....We have been known to overpay and we have to seek Experienced people who know how to succeed  ....
The Mammal
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Short and Quick Mangini might work , but I would like Mr. Lerner to say what so compelling about Mangini's interview ?....We still need a quality GM = NOT A Rookie , = Especially NOT another from Baltimore....We have been known to overpay and we have to seek Experienced people who know how to succeed ....
Every experienced person has failed or they wouldn't be available to hire!
Nothing is a slam dunk. Not first time, young candidates, not old time guys
who've bounced around for years.
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Every experienced person has failed or they wouldn't be available to hire!
Really,,,, every experienced person has failed or they wouldn't be available to hire... BUNK
Marty hasn't failed...he's available... Mangini hasn't failed,, he's around, McKay hasn't failed, and he's around, Pioli hasn't failed and he's around, Ferantz hasn't failed and he's around, Spagnoulo hasn't failed and he's around.. are you starting to get my drift... there are lots of successful people that are available ..
You wanna know the best part.. I can say that each and every one of those I've listed did indeed fail,,, at some point in thier career. and most keep coming back to success.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Your last line made my point!
I didn't say they were failures, but that they'd failed at some point in their carreer.
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I didn't say they were failures, but that they'd failed at some point in their carreer.
Then could you please be a little clearer....LOL
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Jay Glazer's interview on WFAN tuesday:
.........removed............
I got this from the Jet's official web site and do not have link, so if this is not supposed to be here, sorry. I wanted to share this with you dawgs.
You got it from the message board on that site. You could have posted the link from your source. But I think you already knew it was a bad source by the rules. That is blatant and causing me to deal with it.
Obviously you wanted to share this with the the dawgs, but the reason our rule exists is that without a link to the original source we have no idea if the all that information is valid or if the poster added some of his own opinion or "made-up facts" into it.
There's a reason that rule exists and it is to keep false informatoin from being posted here.
The more I read about Mangini, the more I want him as our coach. We need our head coach to hold these players accountable for thier play and to demand perfection. He is not here to be friends with these players or to be their "father figure." He is here to win, and get the most he possibly can out of them. I am not saying it's ok to belittle a player in front of the entire team, but behind closed doors, HELL YA! I am a frim beleiver in tuff love, and feel that is what this team needs. A winning attitude, and the drive to strive for perfection.
Last edited by Referee6; 01/05/09 03:01 PM.
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Good lord, I could only imagine what a meeting in Mangini's office with Edwards would be like.
I would buy tickets to that.
you had a good run Hank.
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Exactly! But maybe that's what our team needs. A good kick in the butt. A little WAKE UP! You get paid to play and perform your responsabilities they way they need to be done, now do them! I'm for Mangini, but his GM choice, a little hesitant, but who am I?
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Exactly! But maybe that's what our team needs. A good kick in the butt. A little WAKE UP! You get paid to play and perform your responsabilities they way they need to be done, now do them! I'm for Mangini, but his GM choice, a little hesitant, but who am I?
If Kok can recognize talent and Mangini and Kok can work together, then there shouldn't be any problems.
Unfortunately, I'm not sure if Kok can recognize talent.
you had a good run Hank.
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Ya. It's been said that he worked with Ozzie in indentifying free agents, not college players. But I deffinately think a HC and GM on the same page would be a huge step in the right direction. Where the HC actually has some input in the personel the GM is bringing to them team.
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Ya. It's been said that he worked with Ozzie in indentifying free agents, not college players. But I deffinately think a HC and GM on the same page would be a huge step in the right direction. Where the HC actually has some input in the personel the GM is bringing to them team.
The draft is the most important part of the process.
Problem is, our former supposed draft guru's drafts have not been good, IMO.
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I compleyely agree with you about the draft being important and think that our drafts have been nothing to write home about. There's always about 3 or so picks each draft that leave me scratching my head. Maybe Kok can be the guy we hoped we were getting when we signed savage.
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Jay Glazer's interview on WFAN tuesday:
"Eric Mangini was too hard on his players. He would berate his players in front of the team when they didn't perform well or finish their assignments or didn't have knowledge of the opponents schemes or players.
One case of Mangini being hard on his guys was during the bye week when Eric called Favre and Tony Richardson into his office to rip them for playing poorly in practice. The players called it the principal's office. Eric laid into Favre for his decision making and blasted Richardson for going soft on some of his blocks.
Eric would watch game film and then call individual players into his office to ream them. He would also give each of his players a quiz on the up coming opponent's players. Eric also was hard on his assistants according to Glazer. Mangini was not happy with Sutton and Schottenheimer and while he publically defended them, He would critique their gameplans heavily every week."
I got this from the Jet's official web site and do not have link, so if this is not supposed to be here, sorry. I wanted to share this with you dawgs.
The more I read about Mangini, the more I want him as our coach. We need our head coach to hold these players accountable for thier play and to demand perfection. He is not here to be friends with these players or to be their "father figure." He is here to win, and get the most he possibly can out of them. I am not saying it's ok to belittle a player in front of the entire team, but behind closed doors, HELL YA! I am a frim beleiver in tuff love, and feel that is what this team needs. A winning attitude, and the drive to strive for perfection.
Rarely do i quote a whole post but what the Jets' set out to do here is report something to Mangini's detriment, and it tutns out that when i read it....i loved it and figured thats exactly what some of our entitlement loving superstar brownies needed. Bring on Mangini i say.
Seriously, how many times have our insiders alluded to Receivers running wrong routes, missed assignments, lining up wrong, not knowing the plays in the huddle etc Bring on the Mangini pop quiz. Accountability is not a dirty word when you'm stealing your paycheques as far as i'm concerned.
I was leaning towards this guy anyways, move aside Pit and let me on that bandwagon! 
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The more I read about Mangini, the more I want him as our coach. We need our head coach to hold these players accountable for thier play and to demand perfection. He is not here to be friends with these players or to be their "father figure." He is here to win, and get the most he possibly can out of them. I am not saying it's ok to belittle a player in front of the entire team, but behind closed doors, HELL YA! I am a frim beleiver in tuff love, and feel that is what this team needs. A winning attitude, and the drive to strive for perfection.
I agree with you on this 100 %......but I say, since these guys are making the amounts of money that they are, then they DAMN well had better earn it.......not start pouting around like a bunch of little "Susie Squat to P's" everytime a coach gets in there face about how bad they are playing.....if they do, then get rid of them...I promise you that as soon as one player gets made as an example, everyone else will straighten right up.......This is what Parcells seems to do, and you can't agrue with his results.......On the other hand, I'm not quite sure if Mangini is the guy for this or not...it just seemd that he may have lost control of his locker room in his stint in NY......and if he thought that they were bad, wait till he gets here and sees all of the softies he has got to work with in this locker room.........Just out of curiousity....do you think that the only reason RL is hiring, or wanting to hire him so bad is because he thinks he will turn it around in his 2nd attempt as head coach, kinda like Bill Bellichek...????
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Roscoe5319/Marty2.jpg) "Winning is not a some time thing, it's an all the time thing" ....-Lombardi-
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Give Me Shanahan....
And hopefully Romeo will be willing to be DC.
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Give Me Shanahan....
And hopefully Romeo will be willing to be DC.
I would take Shanahan in a heart beat.....or Marty.....but it appears that it will be Mangini.......hopefully, he pans out better than I think...I just can't see why RL is so high on this guy........
"Winning is not a some time thing, it's an all the time thing" ....-Lombardi-
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Quote:
Jay Glazer's interview on WFAN tuesday:
"Eric Mangini was too hard on his players. He would berate his players in front of the team when they didn't perform well or finish their assignments or didn't have knowledge of the opponents schemes or players.
One case of Mangini being hard on his guys was during the bye week when Eric called Favre and Tony Richardson into his office to rip them for playing poorly in practice. The players called it the principal's office. Eric laid into Favre for his decision making and blasted Richardson for going soft on some of his blocks.
Eric would watch game film and then call individual players into his office to ream them. He would also give each of his players a quiz on the up coming opponent's players. Eric also was hard on his assistants according to Glazer. Mangini was not happy with Sutton and Schottenheimer and while he publically defended them, He would critique their gameplans heavily every week."
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* If Mangini does get the Cleveland job, let this serve as a warning to any holdover Browns assistant coaches. The prevailing thought amongst Jets assistant coaches is that few enjoyed working for Mangini. Perhaps being fired will force him to change some ideas and philosophies — it often does. But Manigni was harldy the most well-liked guy in the Jets training complex.
I like the sound of him being a hardass and holds everyone accountable.....but he also sounds like a big fat jerk. I think that works if you're winning. However, if you're losing AND working for a total jerk it could become worse of a disaster as we had this past season.
If he does become our next head coach, I hope he uses NY as a lesson on how to treat people within the organization. Be firm but don't be a jerk for the sake of being a jerk (I think it worked for Herb Brooks and the 1980 US Olympic Hockey Team....can't think of other examples).
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Why would we want to bring a coach in here like that?
I don't think you can go from laid back to extreme.
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,030 |
The only saving grace is hopefully Mangini has learned from his previous mistakes. As someone else said, it's one thing to be a hard ass, but it's another to be an absolute jerk. I don't want a coach who calls out players in front of his teammates. I want a coach who holds players accountable, but does it in a professional manner.
Hopefully, he learned from his recent firing that how you work with people goes along way in doing your own job.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849 |
Seriously though...
He got fired, and the VERY NEXT DAY he is being called in for an interview. IMO, He hasn't learned anything.... Except he must be doing something right.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955 |
Because soft and squishy wasn't working for our guys, maybe? If they can't deal with it, they can walk. I'm sick of these guys taking it easy. It shows on the field...and it's getting old.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
I'd at least like to know why Lerner won't wait till Shanahan comes back from his vacation to interview him.
And there are others I think need to be brought in.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849 |
Well is there any difference b/w Mangini and Cowher then... Cowher got on his players..
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 604
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 604 |
Sure, Cower has a winning record.......Mangini doesn't........
"Winning is not a some time thing, it's an all the time thing" ....-Lombardi-
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227 |
Quote:
Because soft and squishy wasn't working for our guys, maybe? If they can't deal with it, they can walk. I'm sick of these guys taking it easy. It shows on the field...and it's getting old.
I don't think anyone who will say they want soft and squishy again but there's a difference between being hard-nosed and being a jerk. Look at Cowher for an example about the kind of coach I want. He was a disciplinarian who demanded the most out of his players and laid into those who screwed up... BUT, he was also respected and loved by most of his players... they just realized that he held them to a high standard.
THAT is the kind of coach I want. I don't want the kind of guy Mangini was in New York, where players and assistants alike hate him for being a jackass control freak that doesn't care for those he works around. The problem is, when Belichick was like that, he didn't go right back into head coaching... he went back to being an assistant for the master and learned from his mistakes before trying again.
As was said above, Mangini has probably learned nothing from his failures in New York given that he pretty much got a job offer the day he was let go.
The only personality worse for a losing team than a coach like Romeo who is too timid to change things is a guy like Mangini who humiliates his team and reams them when times are tough. If you do it in the right way (where the players know your motivations are genuine), it can be very effective... but given that he got canned, I highly doubt that's how he operates.
Color me concerned. He was fired for a reason.
We're... we're good?
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Reports say Mangini out as Jets'
head coach
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