|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
j/c
Why do I not have a problem with a guy calling players out in front of the teammates? Why do I not have a problem with a head coach yelling at his assistant coaches when they don't perform to his standards?
Hopefully he also praised them when they did the right things. And, hopefully he didn't call players out in the press. I do believe that discipline should stay in house.
But, think about the U.S. Marine Corps, something a lot of us really respect. When someone screws up there, does the drill sergeant pull him aside and quietly talk to him? From people I've spoken with who were in the Marines (and I was not, so if I'm dead wrong, please correct me), the attitude was that people got laid into very much in public. You didn't want to be embarrassed like that, so you did the right thing.
Also, the rest of the team was punished for your wrongdoing. That lead to guys either helping you do the right thing, or the rest of the team punishing you for getting them punished.
And, I've read a few reports that say the players didn't think Mangini was the problem. Heck, a lot of them were saying that Favre was the problem.
And, someone said that being a hardass like Mangini only works "when you're winning." Well, why shouldn't it work when you're losing? Heck, when you're losing, you're doing something wrong, so the guy SHOULD be harder on you, IMO.
The key is that, while he should be hard on you, he should also do what he can to make sure that you improve. I haven't read anything saying he does or doesn't do that, so I can't make a judgment there.
Is Mangini the right guy for the Browns? I don't know. But what I do know is it doesn't bother me that he's hard on his staff and his players, even if he is a big fat jerk. What matters to me is if he puts a winning team on the field that performs at their highest possible level. If the guys on this team are too fragile to have someone yelling at them, and therefore don't perform at a high level, then, frankly, I don't want them here.
JMHO
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Well is there any difference b/w Mangini and Cowher then... Cowher got on his players..
I don't know how much of the reports to believe but based simply on what I know, Cowher got on his players but they respected the way he did it... Mangini got on his players and some resented him for the way he did it.. Maybe that's directly related to winning %.. not sure.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,711
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,711 |
Quote:
I don't know how much of the reports to believe but based simply on what I know, Cowher got on his players but they respected the way he did it... Mangini got on his players and some resented him for the way he did it.. Maybe that's directly related to winning %.. not sure.
well i think it totally has to do with winning.....look at the giants...coughlin was rumored to be disliked by the players because he was so strict....rumors were saying he could be gone....
then they win the superbowl....who's complaining now?
i have no problem with a coach reaming out a player for screwing up...and as far as the quizzes go,i don't see whats wrong with that either....
quizzes are designed to do one thing....tell ya how your doing before the test.....the test being the game....
i would rather know who's prepared before the game....those quizzes also can show you who you need to focus on, and what your limitations might be on gameday...
if a receiver is struggling with hot reads on those quizzes, then you might not want to rely on him when the game is on the line, and there is a likely blitz coming.....throw it to the guy that got the "A"
If someone doesn't know what they are doing, they shouldn't be on the field...and if they absolutely have to be, then at least you know what your weaknesses are....
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,030
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,030 |
It was also reported that Coughlin started to change the way he approached his players a couple of years ago. Nobody wants a soft coach for these guys (at least I don't), but it would be short sighted to disregard reports of his players and own coaches hating his guts to the point that they are glad he's gone.
Hopefully Mangini will have learned from his last failure (as Coughlin and Bill B. did), and still bring the same toughness, but do it in more of a professional manner.
Last edited by BigWillieStyle; 01/05/09 01:50 PM.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,732
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,732 |
Quote:
I was leaning towards this guy anyways, move aside Pit and let me on that bandwagon! 
Hell, I'll let you run the show for a while!
People are starting to look into the guy more and are starting to see what I see. Now's the perfect time for me to back off IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,758
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,758 |
Quote:
But, think about the U.S. Marine Corps, something a lot of us really respect. When someone screws up there, does the drill sergeant pull him aside and quietly talk to him? From people I've spoken with who were in the Marines (and I was not, so if I'm dead wrong, please correct me), the attitude was that people got laid into very much in public. You didn't want to be embarrassed like that, so you did the right thing.
That is true, but when you do something good like a promotion or earning a ribbon you were called in front of the entire formation too so everyone could share in it. It works both ways and if it's just the bad thats shown in front of the troops, that is not a good way of trying to get thru to people. Discipline is a great thing and something this team seriously lacks. I am thinking is EM is big on accountability that it is something good for this team and a change Lerner really wants to go for. Maybe then players won't shrug off mistakes, missed tackles, drops, lack of hustle, etc, etc, etc.
Our honor defend, we will fight to the end, for OHIO! GO BUCKS!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
Quote:
That is true, but when you do something good like a promotion or earning a ribbon you were called in front of the entire formation too so everyone could share in it. It works both ways and if it's just the bad thats shown in front of the troops, that is not a good way of trying to get thru to people. Discipline is a great thing and something this team seriously lacks. I am thinking is EM is big on accountability that it is something good for this team and a change Lerner really wants to go for. Maybe then players won't shrug off mistakes, missed tackles, drops, lack of hustle, etc, etc, etc.
Oh, I agree 100%. I've always been of the mindset that a true leader is certainly strict, but also fair. If he treats one guy like crap, he should treat everyone like crap. But, at the same time, when someone really performs well, you praise him and use him as an example of what others can aspire to.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
But, think about the U.S. Marine Corps, something a lot of us really respect. When someone screws up there, does the drill sergeant pull him aside and quietly talk to him? From people I've spoken with who were in the Marines (and I was not, so if I'm dead wrong, please correct me), the attitude was that people got laid into very much in public. You didn't want to be embarrassed like that, so you did the right thing.
Well the biggest difference I can see in your analogy is that in one case you are dealing with 18-19 year old kids who signed up knowing what it would be like and making pocket change... in the NFL you are dealing with 21-24 year old kids who have been pampered their entire adult life who are making millions...
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
That's certainly an obstacle. But that doesn't mean we should expect any less.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 468
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 468 |
We do need a HC who is Not afraid to show his emotion during the game , at the press conference or at practice....Accountabilty is important from the Top to the Bottom of the organization....We win or lose as a team....Know one should feel put in the spot light when they make a mistake....Everyone is supposed to take care of their own role on the team , if you fail to do so expect to be corrected , that is the only way that the team will get better....It might be a shock to our players going from Crennel to Mangini but in the end all that matters is the we improve in 2009 and start winning....IF that happens EVERYONE will be Happy....
The Mammal
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,732
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,732 |
Quote:
Just out of curiousity....do you think that the only reason RL is hiring, or wanting to hire him so bad is because he thinks he will turn it around in his 2nd attempt as head coach, kinda like Bill Bellichek...????
Not "just because", no.
But because he showed a spark, dicipline and some measured success as a first time HC. Something to build on.
You see, with RAC, I couldn't "see" any progression out of him. What areas did he improve in? So I feel you can't just hire "any" HC based strictly on this being his second stint as HC.
However, if the guy has shown many of the talents that a Parcells or Billicheck, or has actually shown the ability to emmulate their styles of dicipline and accountability?
And if the guy had relative success in his first stint as HC?
When you combine those factors, it makes the candidate much more plausible IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,732
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,732 |
Quote:
It was also reported that Coughlin started to change the way he approached his players a couple of years ago. Nobody wants a soft coach for these guys (at least I don't), but it would be short sighted to disregard reports of his players and own coaches hating his guts to the point that they are glad he's gone.
Not to be saying you don't have a point, but that brings up an interesting question/questions.
When Coughlin came to the Giants, how bad was dicipline and accountability? What state was that team in? And after a few years, are you saying that he didn't have the ship righted to the point he could ease up a little?
I guess it boils down to what it takes to get a team "won over". If you can prove to them that your way works, they go with the flow. At that juncture, you don't have to "ride them" to go along with the program, they want to. I don't think Coughlin went through an "evolution". But he had to get the ship righted first.
Quote:
Hopefully Mangini will have learned from his last failure (as Coughlin and Bill B. did), and still bring the same toughness, but do it in more of a professional manner.
So Parcells isn't professional? When was he a softie? And who really failed here? Mangini? Or the Jets FO?
I vote the latter of the two.......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 20
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 20 |
I was going to bring up the same point. I remember hearing that players were even 'complaining' about how tough camp was last year. They complained about how tough he was as a coach. Then, they win the SB. I have no issues with any coach or leader of any team, holding everyone accountable and being "hard" on them when they don't produce or meet expectations. But, at the same time, that same leader must praise those individuals for accomplishments too. If you do both, you will gain their respect.
From Cleveland to KC to south central Florida, this dawg has made his travels - and changed his display name for each move.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
They complained about how tough he was as a coach. Then, they win the SB. I have no issues with any coach or leader of any team, holding everyone accountable and being "hard" on them when they don't produce or meet expectations. But, at the same time, that same leader must praise those individuals for accomplishments too. If you do both, you will gain their respect.
I would add to that.. he has to hold himself accountable too. If he goes on ranting at players and assistants every time they screw up but doesn't say a word when he makes a mistake, that won't be well received..... He has to stand up in front of the team and tell them, "I screwed this one up." ....
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,447
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,447 |
.. " Mangini has head coaching experience, going 23-25 with the Jets and 0-1 in the playoffs.. "
Nothing against the Guy , but that's not what I would call an over whelming case to be a HC. ????
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,732
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,732 |
http://www.nypost.com/seven/12302008/sports/jets/manginis_firing_catches_players_off_guar_146469.htmhttp://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2008/12/jets_players_sad_to_see_mangin.htmlYou can read these articles in full on "The Interviews" thread. I just posted them there. You might find you've taken rumors too seriously and might want to hear what WAS SAID by the players. Looks like they blame the FO, not Mangini. It's always better to get it straight from the horses mouth rather than rumor mill sources IMO And it kind of confirms my thoughts about Coughlin and Mangini in reagards to Having to right the ship first"Then you can back off a little once you get your troops under control..........
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,732
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,732 |
Quote:
.. " Mangini has head coaching experience, going 23-25 with the Jets and 0-1 in the playoffs.. "
Nothing against the Guy , but that's not what I would call an over whelming case to be a HC. ????
Have you compared that to Billicheck when he went to NE?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227 |
Pit... we all want discipline and accountability here. However, I want discipline and accountability to be PRODUCTIVE. Coughlin is a guy who hadn't done much of anything in New York, had started to lose his team (mainly Tiki Barber) and was on the verge of being fired before he loosened up just a bit and his team started winning like crazy. Discipline and accountability is great but if you're a jerk when you do it, people begin to resent you.
That's what has me so hesitant about Mangini. He may be a disciplinarian alright but he sure sounds like an egomaniac to me. His New England players ripped him when he left for the Jets job, his Jets players hated him when he came in and many still hated him when he left, his assistants didn't like working for him as he pretty much handcuffed them, the list goes on and on.
Compared to a soft ball of fluff like Romeo, I'm sure Mangini's disciplinarian attitude might seem like a breath of fresh air to Lerner but rest assured, if he's ANYTHING like these reports coming out say he is, we're in for a whole different problem.
Everyone says he might be the next Belichick... but have we ever stopped to consider that he might be the next CLEVELAND version of Belichick instead? You know, Belichick before he swallowed his pride and ego and learned how to coach?
If we were choosing between Romeo and Mangini, I'd choose Mangini easily, but we have so many more options than that. Why we're pigeonholing ourselves into a guy that was just fired that no other team has even expressed interest in is beyond me.
Randy is in over his head and without a good football mind to sit in on the process, he just might drown.
We're... we're good?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 20
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 20 |
Quote:
He has to stand up in front of the team and tell them, "I screwed this one up." ....
100% agree
From Cleveland to KC to south central Florida, this dawg has made his travels - and changed his display name for each move.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,732
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,732 |
Check the links Spectre. Check what the players said. They said after year one? They would have been THRILLED to see Mangini go! But after year three? He had changed somewhat and they respected him. And were willing to work with him. It's right there in B&W if you would only read them.......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,447
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,447 |
Quote:
Quote:
.. " Mangini has head coaching experience, going 23-25 with the Jets and 0-1 in the playoffs.. "
Nothing against the Guy , but that's not what I would call an over whelming case to be a HC. ????
Have you compared that to Billicheck when he went to NE?
Dodn't understand the comparison !  
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227 |
Quote:
Looks like they blame the FO, not Mangini. It's always better to get it straight from the horses mouth rather than rumor mill sources IMO
Yeah, because players always go on the record when they blast their ex-head coach.  You're going to hear everything good because players are willing to attach their name to it. Rest assured that there has been a ton said off the record or under condition of anonymity.
You're forgetting one key thing about Belichick's journey to becoming a great head coach... after he was fired in 1995 he actually went back to New England from 1996-1999 as a secondary/defensive backs coach under Parcells for one year and Pete Carroll for the rest. Think that might have helped at all? I certainly would be humbled by it. Think that he might have been able to discuss what went wrong with his mentor and learn from his experience?
Mangini probably hasn't learned a thing from this the way Lerner has drooled all over him. If anything, he's probably carrying the same attitude and resentment for the Jets for letting him go. If that's the case, why exactly is he suddenly going to change himself into a winner like Belichick did after his stint as an assistant?
We're... we're good?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704 |
I see a lot of "probably" and "might" and "maybe" in your post. While in Pit's all I'm seeing is concrete evidence...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227 |
Quote:
Check the links Spectre. Check what the players said.
They said after year one? They would have been THRILLED to see Mangini go!
But after year three? He had changed somewhat and they respected him. And were willing to work with him.
It's right there in B&W if you would only read them.......
Again, that's what players said ON the record. Never look at what is said in black and white and take that as the truth. Rather, read in between the lines and hear the whispers to find out what really goes on behind the scenes when players names aren't being recorded. Those vague reports being put out by Glazer and Schefter with no named sources talking about how his players and coaches didn't like him... that's where you need to look. They tell a much different story.
Again, there's a reason he got fired and if Lerner hasn't asked the Jets ownership why, he's a fool.
We're... we're good?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,533
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,533 |
Quote:
.. " Mangini has head coaching experience, going 23-25 with the Jets and 0-1 in the playoffs.. "
Nothing against the Guy , but that's not what I would call an over whelming case to be a HC. ????
Water...That is a concern of mine as well. I just don't see him bringing much credibilty to the team that players can get excited about. I can't believe the Browns (accroding to reports) are going to hand the reigns over to a coach who hasn't proven himeslf a winner in the NFL and allow him to pick his GM. Unreal.
It appears as Lerner is completely taken with Mangini and doesn't seem to be aggressively pursuing Shannahan or McKay. Magini isn't going anywhere soon, he's not a hot commodity. I hope Lerner doen't jump the gun to quickly. As for now, I would be totally unimpressed with a Mangini/Kokinis duo. But, that's just me.
My other thought is that The Browns FO and coaching positions aren't that attractive given the fact we are perennial losers and this will be the 4th regime change in a decade. Maybe we can't attract top talent and Magini is the only coach with any previouse HC experience the Browns can attract. IMO, the Browns aren't a dream job to a proven winner. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try to get one though.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227 |
Quote:
I see a lot of "probably" and "might" and "maybe" in your post. While in Pit's all I'm seeing is concrete evidence...
Did you miss my point? You will RARELY get concrete evidence of players and coaches speaking out against their ex-coach. It's the exact same reason why you're never supposed to speak badly about your ex-management in a job interview. Reason being, if I'm an employer, and if you are willing to speak out against your ex-coach, admit you didn't get along with them, and kick them when they're down... are you going to do it to me? Simply put, to rip Mangini on record is blacklisting yourself and most people aren't stupid enough for that.
Just because you can't get anyone on record for it doesn't mean that the sentiment isn't out there - it's been put out there by multiple sources that he wasn't liked by many players and coaches. You just need to take off the blinders to see it and realize that there's much more to it than sunshine and lollipops.
Again, if that were the case and he's really just a swell guy and a great coach, why did he get fired and why has no one but us expressed interest? Read between the lines... many times, THAT is where the truth lies.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
.. " Mangini has head coaching experience, going 23-25 with the Jets and 0-1 in the playoffs.. "
Nothing against the Guy , but that's not what I would call an over whelming case to be a HC. ????
Unless we get Shanahan, pretty much any other candidate is going to be 0-0 as a HC in the NFL... which would you prefer?
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
j/c Pit made some very good selling points by displaying Mangini's ability to adapt and change over time. I also don't blame him at all, not one iota, for the collapse of the Jets down the stretch. That one's all on Favre. The only thing you can really blame him for is for NOT benching Favre...but think about it...Lord Favre benched? Only guys I see having the stones to do such a thing would be Belichick and Parcells themselves...and Mangini doesn't have that kind of reputation yet to go benching legends. I'm not concerned with showing emotion on the sidelines...I'm more concerned with being organized and disciplined during practice and on gameday, and having sharp gameplans that use the most out of the personnel available. The Dolphins had no business going 11-5 this year given the talent they have...smart coaching, competent QBing and gameplanning got them there (and a light schedule). Is Mangini a good enough gameplanner who gets the best out of the talent available to him? This is the National Football League...all teams have talent except for maybe Detroit...KC has young talent. I don't think our cupboard is bare at all, we just need to use said cupboard properly. We need good coordinators and a coach who demands accountability and perfection out of the players, IMO. I think Mangini would be fine as a HC...even though I'm very intrigued by McDaniels' potential. Plus as a purebread Italian myself, the idea of having an Italian coach is icing on the cake. I do know that Mangini and Belichick are considered so similar that Mangini was referred to as "Little Bill" by some. I'm mostly concerned with hiring the right coordinators. Experienced ones who know just what the hell they're doing. No more Mel Tuckers and Rob Chudzinski's. Here's a thought...with Romeo as DC...while the defensive scheme wouldn't change, how much would the playcalling itself change? Would it change enough to see a marked improvement in our defense?And offensively...ohhhh if only Mike Martz didn't have an ego the size of Alaska and gets too pass happy...he's an offensive genius when he balances his attack...and that's more of an "if" than anything else.
Last edited by Ammo; 01/05/09 03:52 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,517
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,517 |
Martz??!
We better sign about 8 more qb's,his system + our o-line will get several of them killed.And I mean attending funerals killed.
No thanks to Martz,my black suit doesn't fit too well anymore.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
Quote:
Martz??!
We better sign about 8 more qb's,his system + our o-line will get several of them killed.And I mean attending funerals killed.
No thanks to Martz,my black suit doesn't fit too well anymore.
Like I said, when he properly balances his play calling, Martz is a genius. I know Bernie Kosar agrees on Martz' offensive IQ.
Otherwise...he's too pass happy. I said "if only," not that I want him.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659
Poser
|
|
Poser
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659 |
Actually, Ammo, the schemes would probably change quite a bit, thought it might be gradual. As the players needed to fit the system are finsihed being brought in, the scheme would then be changed to RAC's "normal" schemes. The play calling would also be different. The results would also be vastly improved.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,858
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,858 |
Quote:
" Mangini has head coaching experience, going 23-25 with the Jets and 0-1 in the playoffs.. "
Nothing against the Guy , but that's not what I would call an over whelming case to be a HC. ????
Break it down a bit more and you will see two winning seasons and 1 losing season.
Thats as good as or better than Belichick when he was with the Browns..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,704 |
Spectre- You are missing this point...
Rarely do you see players step up and say they are sad to see a coach go, too. Look at all the other coaching changes in the league.
Only two teams have had players step up and say they didn't want to see the coach leave... New York, and Denver.
That should tell you something, too.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,447
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,447 |
What the devil has " Belichick " got to do with anything ??? I am afraid I ain't into this TREE thing
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,447
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,447 |
Quote:
Quote:
.. " Mangini has head coaching experience, going 23-25 with the Jets and 0-1 in the playoffs.. "
Nothing against the Guy , but that's not what I would call an over whelming case to be a HC. ????
Unless we get Shanahan, pretty much any other candidate is going to be 0-0 as a HC in the NFL... which would you prefer?
How about 50 / 50 ?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Thats as good as or better than Belichick when he was with the Browns..
I can't believe you are saying Mangini is as good or better than Belichick.. what a joke, what a crock.. a 3 year head coach with an under 500 winning percentage verses the guy with a handful of rings.. sheesh, get over it.. sheesh.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882 |
Quote:
Break it down a bit more and you will see two winning seasons and 1 losing season.
...just clicking (more or less to comment on the "winning seasons" statement). I'm not trying to start an argument.
In my opinion, you either get into the playoffs or you don't, that's the true definition of a winning season in my book. Just finishing above .500 isn't really enough in this league. We've seen in the past two seasons that 9-7 (Jets '08), 10-6 (Browns '07) & 11-5 (Pats '08) might not be enough to get into the playoffs. And other than draft order, it means just as much as finishing 4-12.
Yes, I suppose if you twisted my arm I would prefer 9-7 and home for the playoffs over 4-12 and home for the playoffs. However, the NFL guarantees you nothing from year to year. We all saw clear proof that having a 10-6 record in 2007 meant nothing when it came to playing in 2008. Momentium rarely carries forward year to year in the NFL. And the playoffs are a whole different animal than regular season games.
I'm not sure about Mangini. I do know one thing, I'm still irked that Savage gave up our 3rd this year to get Rucker. It's practically a late 2nd round pick! Damn!
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,858
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,858 |
Quote:
I can't believe you are saying Mangini is as good or better than Belichick.. what a joke, what a crock
Were you dropped on your head as a child DC
RE Read what you quoted me saying... then tell me your sorry for misreading it and trying to make me look like a fool.... A task I might add is mere childs play in the hands of experts such as yourself
Wait,,, let's do it together shall we:
My exact quote was:
"Thats as good as or better than Belichick when he was with the Browns.. "
What were Belichicks first three years like with the BROWNS starting in 1990? Now tell me that Manginis record wasn't better in the first three years of his head coaching experience..
Bill Belichicks first three years with the Browns as a first time HC.. 16-32 and no playoff appearences
Eric Manginis first three years with the Jets as a first time HC... 23-25 and one playoff appearance!
I think it's safe to say that the Browns of 1990 were similar to the Jets of 2006 in that they were pretty decent teams a few years prior to either coach coming in, then fell on a bad year causing a coaching change. Both were teams that were ageing quickly and both needed rebuilt.
Looking at it from that perspective kinda makes it appear that the situations were similar enough to get a fair comparison. Now, which record is better? Mangini or Belichick?
Belichick is NOT the winner.
GOTCHA
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
Quote:
Actually, Ammo, the schemes would probably change quite a bit, thought it might be gradual. As the players needed to fit the system are finsihed being brought in, the scheme would then be changed to RAC's "normal" schemes. The play calling would also be different. The results would also be vastly improved.
Ok, well, let's assume we have the same personnel (with a healthy Robaire Smith and Daven Holly...basically, our healthy 2008 defense). Would Romeo's experience as a DC yield better results than Mel Tucker strictly from a gameplanning and playcalling standpoint? Or would the results be similar because of the players not being in place? (sidenote: I KNOW we need help on D, mainly at linebacker, but I'm trying to be as pure apples to apples as I can be here)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659
Poser
|
|
Poser
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659 |
That's a good question. I would speculate that the D would be better just because of RAC's experience with gameplanning and play caling.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Reports say Mangini out as Jets'
head coach
|
|
