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don't worry pit, you're on my list too  you and attack dawg are right up there. nice to see you go to personal attack because you can't deal with the facts.
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I was being generous because the 16th ranked QB blew DA's numbers away even more.
Dong, you wanted to use stats. I used them. Now we'll talk about DA's streakiness and that's fine. However, even when he's been "on", his short passes have been very erratic to be kind.
The bottom line is that DA's mechanics are so bad, his footwork is so lacking, and his dexterirty on the short throws are so pathetic, that he is not going to be successful until those things are fixed. He has tried to fix them.....he has stopped throwing 90 MPH fastballs on the short routes for the most part, but when he did that he began to "aim" the ball causing more inaccurate throws.
Sadly, DA has to unlearn his MANY years of relying on heaving the ball downfield. Until he breaks some terrible habits and gets sound mechanics, he will not be even an average starter in the NFL.
Can he? Sure, he can....can the Browns wait around for that to happen? I dont think so.
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dong, you won't win this one  I see what you are saying and agree with some of it. Quinn is by no means a lost cause and can have potential. The problem is we have 2 young quarterbacks and an obvious lack of guidance for both. After seeing Dorsey in there, I'm embarrassed that we used him to mentor these two. I know I would listen to someone that can back up his talk on the field before I would KD.
thanks hew. the thing is, i don't have a win/lose agenda. all i want to do is open some eyes. quinn is not a lost cause and clearly has potential. that doesn't mean he's a lock. as a franchise that suffered through so much qb-related issues, most of it fan-inspired, it's so frustrating to see people dismiss a potential qb for, essentially, a flip of the coin chance that we found a good qb. glad to see someone at least secure enough to say that we may have 2, 1, or no qbs on our roster.
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don't worry pit, you're on my list too
you and attack dawg are right up there.
nice to see you go to personal attack because you can't deal with the facts.
You showed one game where he threw it short.
Multiple people have showed passing percentages and passer ratings, not to mention, he had a losing record as starting QB.
Derek may *unlikely, but may* become a successful QB, but not in Cleveland.
you had a good run Hank.
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I've heard that DA wants out of Cleveland so I would be surprised to see him here for the upcoming season...therefore any discussion about his performance is somewhat of a waste of time.
For the record, the Browns offensive line did not protect their QBs this past season as they did in the previous season. I believe we led the NFL in the category of QBs on IR, due to penetration.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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coach, that's fair. this is the type of feedback i can deal with.
here's somethin though: didn't scherer try to change quinn's mechanics? isn't that pretty rediculous as well?
as far as DA's footwork goes, i've made my peace with it (not saying the staff or others should). i just accept that he's not going to be the perfect qb. i just think that, if he can build on his 07 performance (something i really think he was on to looking at that first drive against the jets before the concussion against giants), he could be a pretty good qb.
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that's pretty dumb.
That's what I get out of your posts on here as well!
calling anyone's opinion on here dumb is wrong. People have a right to it even if others don't agree with it or if it's the minority.
I for one have a hard time being swayed by anyone who parades a player that is in their own sig. Just saying. There's nothing wrong with it, that's just my opinion.
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I used to be a supporter of Derek's when he was winning games – and I wouldn't mind him as a backup in Cleveland though I doubt it'll happen. But he's about as good as he's going to get, in terms of fixing his weaknesses. I don't see how a guy in his 20s can suddenly learn "touch" on his passing.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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I've gotta disagree with you there, Hew. Some people have the knowledge and the mental ability to know a position but not the physical tools. It's much like being "book smart".
Conversely, there are many incredible players that would never make good coaches. The reason being that they rely so much on their physical gifts, they can't relate to someone that doesn't have their incredible instincts and God given ability. I was by no stretch of the imagination even an average player in the NFL, but when I began my coaching career, I was told by one incredible coach that has been touted around here to take over that I had to undrestand that those I'm coaching may not have the same physical gifts that I had. I had to make sure I could instruct them understanding the differences in athletic ability.
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Personal?
Ohhhh U mean my sarcasm...if you think that was personal man are you way off..
DA isn't really worth arguing about..dude is consistantly inconsistant.
He can't do the things that make a QB efficient..as coach said his mechanics are bad..and that includes timing..hitting a reciever either in stride or on the correct shoulder..
Why else do you want to debate for him?
I don't see a reason to thats why I won't get into a lot of detail against him.I did last year to prove to a certain poster who got banned how defenses schemed on DA..abd the end result was that he couldn't adjust .
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Have you seen how some players get better with experience? Not saying that DA will follow in the footsteps of someone like Eli Manning, but it's possible. I'm still sure it won't happen here though unless we pull one heck of a quarterbacks coach or OC.
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can't i say the same about quinn's lacking ability to connect on a long ball? remmeber the preseason? i can understand your sentiment if DA was in his 30s but in his 20s? he has the time and he's not a complete product. he is what he was when he was drafted: a project with potential. if DA went through his football life not needing to touch throw it, we don't know how he'd respond. like i said though, i saw flashes. a great example was the throw to edwards in the endzone in the jets preseason game. that was when the two were on the same page. even DA siad, "that's what we would do in that situation and we executed. he didn't need to one-hand it but that's what we siad we'd do." what did people on the board do? say that DA threw it behind edwards and he was horrible innacurate. 
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that was to pitdawg. hew addressed it too.
and do you really need to piggyback on someone else's point when all of yours already failed?
Last edited by dong; 12/30/08 05:58 PM.
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Have you seen how some players get better with experience? Not saying that DA will follow in the footsteps of someone like Eli Manning, but it's possible. I'm still sure it won't happen here though unless we pull one heck of a quarterbacks coach or OC.
i didn't know this but mcdanniels was the qb coach as well as the o-coordinator according to other posters here. if that's true, and looking at the development of cassel, you'd think he could do something with one or both of our qbs 
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Dong, there's a difference between "tweaking" mechanics and a complete overhaul. Yes, BQ's mechanics needed tweaking, as all will need some adjustment from time to time. DA's, however, needs totally blown up and retaught. He uses the same mechanics on his short passes as he does his long balls and that's a recipe for disaster, as the numbers show.
I can't make peace with his footwork because footwork is ESSENTIAL to being an accurate QB.
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i'd point out there were at least two more games we should've won that clearly were not on DA's shoulders: raiders and cardinals.
we've had a fairly civil conversation but if you think the raiders loss doesn't fall at least in part on DA's shoulders then we watched different games. DA's qb rating in the first half was 18.. our only points in the first half was a Josh Cribbs KO return. No, our defense did not look good, the Raiders ran through them like a sieve... but in the end, they forced a lot of FGs, even after DAs two first half INTs which gave the Raiders the ball on our 24 and our 7.. In the end he completed less than 50% of his passes with 1 TD and 2 INTs, if that doesn't deserve some blame, then I don't know what does...
And if his short passing got so much better, and we threw a LOT more short passes this year and didn't stretch the field as much, then how did his completion percentage go from 56.5 last year to 50.2 this year? Shouldn't it go UP if he got better at completing short passes? Because his avg went down by about a yard and half also.. so if you're throwing shorter passes than last year and completing fewer of them than last year, how is that improvement?
yebat' Putin
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sorry, i mistakenly associated "footwork" with "mobility" and not regarding setting up for the pass. regarding that angle, i don't see the problem. i see him stepping up in the pocket, i see him make the right step to avoid the rush, i see him pointing his leading foot towards his target. what is wrong with his footwork that is so influential in his weaknesses? the only thing i can tell is he looks "heavier" than quinn in the same process.
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I was wondering when you were going to bring up DA's footing You are right on that one. I'm sure if that is something coaches have to just live with because of his foot size. I can't imagine him having much finese with those things. I see it as kosar's throwing mechanics, you just kinda had to say, "hey, its all wrong, but he found a way to make it work."
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i say the raiders because the team was in shambles and shouldn't have been able to score on us. i will admit that DA shares fault in that game but will not say that he shares MORE fault than any other portion of the team. that was what, his 5th start overall, 2nd in the season?
like i said, DA's lack of performance in 08 is related to 1) not being on the same page as BE because of injuries, 2) be's (and other's) drops, relating to DA not getting into rythmn, 3) lacking a legit number 2 receiver for most of the games, 4) lack of production from the running game, and 5) occasionally lack of successful blocking by the oline. i also did not say DA's touch pass was perfect or even close to "complete," merely that he improved.
and i agree and am appreciative that we had a civil discussion. i know i can expect that from you and i hope you expect that from me.
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like i said though, i saw flashes. a great example was the throw to edwards in the endzone in the jets preseason game.
If that was the norm we wouldn't be having this discussion. But he throws enough head-scratchers to make me believe the occaisonal touch throw is an aberration and not a sign of things to come.
gmstrong -----------------
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like i said, DA's lack of performance in 08 is related to 1) not being on the same page as BE because of injuries, 2) be's (and other's) drops, relating to DA not getting into rythmn, 3) lacking a legit number 2 receiver for most of the games, 4) lack of production from the running game, and 5) occasionally lack of successful blocking by the oline.
6. playing much better defenses that forced him to adjust his game to something he's not comfortable with and not all that good at...
I still think DA, much like the Browns as a team, feasted on weak teams last year and built a reputation they could not possibly live up to.
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that's true. but they say the same about romo's bonehead throws and he was considered an elite qb. just as head-scratching was the throw roethlisberger made to miller that was intercepted by sean jones. it's my hope that DA could reduce the head scratchers, and i think that string of passes without the ints could be an indication that he can.
i don't know if that throw was an indication but it's step one: it shows he can do it. step two is to do it consistently and that's where we disagree. i think that if he can do it, he should be able to develop into doing it consistently.
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don't worry pit, you're on my list too
you and attack dawg are right up there.
nice to see you go to personal attack because you can't deal with the facts.
I thought this was all "good natured fun"?
What happenned?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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i didn't mean anything by it  just my christmas list 
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Joe Thomas jersey in a size 52 would be nice. I won't complain because it's late. I'm a nice guy that way. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Facts? You calling someone else out on facts? Damn dude do you even know the meaning of the word "Fact"? look it up you haven't brought one to the table yet. Dong Show. LMAO.
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Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Where'd everybody go? 
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Dorksiders are only intelligent in their own collective brain or brains, wait why are we bothering with a Dorksider anyway.
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I'm here baby what you need? LOL
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LOL, I just thought it was break time and nobody told me. 
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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I thought the same thing myself.
Just jumping around looking for news here and there.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Wonder when Randy goes to bed? I don't want to miss anything, you know.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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If he feels like I do right now, he may not sleep much. But 11:30 is about my limit for posting and reading for tonight. Unless of course something comes out on the ESPN ticker. Then all bets are off!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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You knowing what I did last night and I am still up? It's like my body saying sleep but the brain is going wait.
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My back is screaming at me and I'm telling it to go f...orget about it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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The pain we put ourselves through, LOL.
Dude were gonna be giggling like school girls tomorrow about this and you know what in a way it is worth it cause it is fun, though the fun is leaaaaaaaaaaaaving my body quickly! Oh and Lisa sends a Thanks BTW.
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[quote Well when DA came in to relieve BQ he went Code:
Passing CP/AT YDS TD INT
D. Anderson 5/14 51 0 1 (Hou)
D. Anderson 16/26 110 0 0 (Ind)
Not exactly lighting it up himself was he. On top of a poor start to the season when he was the starter.
Let's compare the first three games starting as NFL QB while we are comparing.
Anderson.
5TD 4 int.
670 yards passing, 7.6 ypa, 62% completion percentage. with games of 96, 78, and 86 ratings against KC, Pitt, Balt.
Quinn
2 TD 2 int.
518 yards, 5.7 ypa, 50% completion percentage.Ratings of 104, 56 and 21 ratings against Denver Buff, Houston.
Both were 1 and 2. An honest question would be...just based on that alone, who would you rather play QB? Quinn never showed he could throw a deep ball, never showed he could read a defense, didn't show durability, did not look pro-ready. The funniest part of all is that Throwing 5 yard passes was a sin for Frye and a menial ypa was the telling tale so they said...Now throwing a short pass with the perfect touch is an asset for Quinn and too strong of an arm a negative. Watching Manning and Favre and a few other QB's around the league...they smoke those short routes into their receivers, only they don't try to catch them off their facemasks, they don't jump when they are not supposed to, and they try to catch with their hands. They do require some touch, but an All pro receiver and even pro recevers get paid to catch the ball. Some of you sound like you are satisfied with Frye...only his name is Quinn. If you put Fryes name in front of Quinns stats and performances..some of you would laugh him off of the team and anyone who tried to defend that.
I have seen great QB's have 4 int games and games just like DA, the Cinci game was Chuds fault and some of you can't forgive him for that. I just want the best QB on the field and without glasses that is clearly DA. If a new coach comes in and says Quinn is the starter, I will support it. Right now I just go by what I see. I don't believe that a desperation attempt by Romeo to appease the crying fans when he put Quinn in is considered a rational thought just a fantasy. He clearly did not want to put him in, and quickly changed back to the person that gives you the best chance to win, the QB all the players believe in, and that is not something you do with a first round QB, unless you really have doubts.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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What are you trying to sell other then the fact you can cut and paste? You make no point and now I feel somewhat dumber reading this AGAIN!
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Oh and as the quote goes: Stats are for losers, and those who never played the game you fit either one or both catagories. All Day.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum new england (weiss, cassell, etc)
and if it says anything about
quinn
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