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I would actually LOVE for RAC to stay on as DC.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Interviewing HC candidates before he has a GM comes screaming to mind.
Two things...
Pioli's ALREADY HERE...
Pioli's ALREADY HERE...
Do u honestly think Lerner who is a GREAT Stay outta the way owner is going to hire a HC by himself???...I didn't think so...U way 2 smartola to fall for that BS...
Pioli's a BROWN folks...Mark It... 
Possibly, but Cowher was interviewed yesterday regarding a coaching spot(maybe because of the total control thing, or 'feeling him out' as Lerner sort of put it).
Hopefully you're right. I wanna get this thing going. The quicker we hire a GM, the quicker we hire a coach, the quicker we hire ancillary staff, the quicker we can focus on the draft and free agency, and the quicker I can go to bed at night and quit worrying about it. 
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Didn't see this: Quote:
Cleveland Browns owner Randy Lerner isn’t prepared to be turned down a second time in his quest to find a savior for his football franchise, according to a league source familiar with his effort to hire New England Patriots [team stats] personnel director Scott Pioli.
According to the source, Lerner was not pleased when former Pittsburgh Steelers head coach Bill Cowher spurned his advances and so he is prepared to make what was described as a “huge” financial offer to Pioli that would include not only millions, but more importantly full control of the organization and the funds necessary to bring in Pioli’s first choice as head coach, Iowa’s Kirk Ferentz.
Although it has been widely speculated that Pioli might try to create a package deal that would include young Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels as his head coach, that is not the case. Pioli favors Ferentz, with whom he first worked under Bill Belichick when both were with the Browns 15 years ago. Ferentz survived the move to Baltimore and was the Ravens assistant head coach/offensive line coach before leaving to take over the Iowa program in 1998.
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Ferentz began his career at the University of Connecticut, later coached locally at Worcester Academy (where he also taught English literature for two years), and was the head coach at Maine before leaving for the NFL. He has had success rebuilding Iowa’s program, but has suffered through several down years of late, drawing the ire of disgruntled alumni before this season began. The Hawkeyes went 8-4 and will face South Carolina on New Year’s Day in the Outback Bowl, an improvement on 2007’s 6-6 season.
Pioli is also reportedly on the short list in Kansas City, but does not appear to be the leading candidate of owner Clint Hunt, son of Chiefs founder Lamar Hunt, who passed away earlier this year. Hunt is reportedly on the lookout for a young and less-well-known front office executive like Thomas Dimitroff, who left the Patriots’ personnel department a year ago and transformed the luckless Atlanta Falcons into a playoff team in one year.
Hunt is searching for someone willing to work with club president and salary cap guru Denny Thum. Thum has been with the Chiefs for 34 years and was recently installed as team president and COO to replace departed Carl Peterson. Although Thum would not have final say over football matters it is likely Hunt would insist he be in the mix when decisions are made, a scenario that is not believed to be to Pioli’s liking. It is possible that Thum could move exclusively to the business side of the team, but his long-time presence with the Chiefs and association with the departed Peterson would make such a scenario less than likely for Pioli.
As hot a commodity as Pioli is at the moment, his situation may in the end boil down to Cleveland or nothing. Thum is in place in Kansas City and Tom Lewand and Martin Mayhew were mysteriously given promotions in Detroit at the end of a 0-16 season, so there is really only one job out there that would offer him the full control of football operations he desires.
Lewand was recently named Lions club president and Mayhew was promoted to general manager despite the fact both were with the team far longer than departed head coach Rod Marinelli, who inherited them as well as Matt Millen and an already bad situation upon arriving three years ago. If Pioli were to look at Detroit, he would be able to add a new head coach but where would he sit? Certainly not below Lewand, who has been with the Lions for 12 years, a stretch in which they’ve been a sorry excuse for a franchise while the Patriots were winning three super Bowls and going to four.
So it seems if Pioli really wants to finally take over his own NFL franchise his best chance to have the situation he believes is necessary to win - which is to control the entire football operation - is with Cleveland or bust. Considering that the Browns are willing to do it, and willing to allow Ferentz to come in as head coach, it would appear Pioli either ends up there or back in Foxboro in short order.
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view.bg?articleid=1142108
---To be honest I am not thrilled with Ferenitz being his first choice considering who is available. (Mangini, Shanahan, Seattle Guy..etc
Go Browns!!![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/BrowniePoints/AndersonSnowPic.jpg)
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The thing in all of this that worries me the most is the possibility of Crennell staying on as DC. As was mentioned in another thread by someone, what happens if the new HC is tough, demanding, and "old school" to the players? Do they run to RAC for sympathy and get it?
rac was nothing but class here as a head coach....he took the blame for everything...even when he wasen't always at fault....he had his weaknesses...but i can guarantee you there would be no rift...whats he to gain? nothing...
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Say what you want about Crennell's defenses, I haven't seen enough in his 4 years to back that up. I don't care who his DCs were, as a defensive guru, he should have had enough input and ability to get this defense playing better, i.e. blitz schemes, attacking, etc.
as its been stated in many posts...looks like savage didn't give him who he needed on defense...we blitzed....we just didn't get there...then if you keep it up you get burned...we also had young corners and were without our starting safeties for alot of games...whats that equal? big plays....touch downs...just not ours....
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In addition, why would a guy who's supposed to be so great and in such high demand as a DC, stay with an organization that fired him? To me, if he stays it makes him look like a week old fool. The man was fired, he should be let go and have a clean break made.
why couldn't he? most coaches because of pride, would just take the cash and leave....the fact that he would even contemplate staying makes me respect him even more....he's a good guy, that got promoted to his level of incompetence...and i don't even know if thats fair, after looking at the big picture, and how savage called the shots...
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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I understand what you're saying about familiarity, but that's also what worries me. I just wonder about why the guys loved playing for Crennell and think part of that was softness on his part. I don't doubt HE could co-exist with the other coaches, but does it undermine the new HC? Even it it's not deliberate, I think there's a good chance of a divided locker room, and comments like, "That's not how you did it, RAC"
Maybe it's just me, but if I got fired from a job (coaching or otherwise) I don't know if the new guy would want me still working there. For that matter, I don't know if I'd WANT to work there.
As you said, stay tuned!
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Pit- don't forget the Rooney rule. Gotta interview at least one minority before we officially hire anyone.
Which I think is a completely stupid, stupid rule, that only someone from Pittsburgh would come up with, but that's another discussion in itself.....
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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He does know the rule I know cause we discussed this off message board, but I think the way he has is the plan is there it just needs to be official meaasures that need to take place but I like him think we are just waiting for the I's dotted and T's crossed, I do think we are just waiting for the inevidable.
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Pit- don't forget the Rooney rule. Gotta interview at least one minority before we officially hire anyone.
I would guess that Tucker gets the "token" interview.
For the record, what "groups" interviewed are considered to have satisfied the Rooney Rule? African Americans, obviously, but what are the other minorities on the list? I would guess that Hispanics qualify, but who else? I mean, if we interview a French-Canadian coach from the CFL, does it count? I'm not trying to be funny here, I seriously would like to know.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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I don't know, all I know is it's stupid.
How would you like to be the guy interviewing in Cleveland, knowing that you're not getting hired, but they are interviewing you because they have to?
Dumb rule. There's plenty of minority coaches in the NFL, and quite a few are HC's. Why in the hell would you be forced to interview one you have no interest in?
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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I couldn't disagree more. The problem with our entire organization is we tried to promote people into positions for the first time ACROSS THE BOARD and virtually each and every one of them ended up in over their heads. We need proven commodities.
Mel Tucker...proven DB coach. In over his head as DC.
RAC...proven DC. In over his head as HC.
Phil Savage...proven scout. In over his head as GM.
I see absolutley NOTHING wrong with returning these guys (minus Savage) back to their proven positions and replacing their vacant positions with more proven commodities.
I don't know if Mangini and/or Pioli are "the guys" for those jobs, but I'd take RAC as DC and move Tucker back to DB coach in a heartbeat.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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j/c.
I don't know if I like Kirk Ferentez(sp?). College coach...but then again, the main problem with College coaches is that they want full power. If Pioli is given full power, Kirk might just be the right choice.
I know one thing, Kirk would definitely bring in a smashmouth style that everyone wants.
you had a good run Hank.
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J/C... I have no clue who I want at this point. I just want this stuff to end so I can get on with my life.  This probably will come as no suprise to anyone...I agree with Eve ( except her changing Wicked Grin Radio to yucky music). She wants a proven winner like Shanahan or Holgrem. Holgrem was able to build two different teams. Shanahan had a good run in Denver. Coaches with no experience are very risky. Not all coaches with a proven track record are a lock to be successful but at least we have something to go on. I don't know if I like the idea of Pioli. I would feel more comfortable with a guy who has a proven track record as a GM, where he had most of the control.
#gmstrong
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but more importantly full control of the organization and the funds necessary to bring in Pioli’s first choice as head coach, Iowa’s Kirk Ferentz.
Damn...Talk about kinkin' the iron...
Not so sure I like this one...Possibly Ferentz may decline...
10 years out of the NFL...That's a long time...
I know alot of us want experience as a HC...But I've always felt the HC just "Runs the Team"...Coordinators are the KEY to success...Just look at Harbaugh...1st year HC...No possible way he does what they did without Ryan on D and Cameron on O...Take those coordinators away and Baltimore crashes...
Shanahan just got BONED...The DC is who shoulda hit the road in Denver...
Whatcha think about this Ferentz crap???    
Go Browns!!!
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jc I´m ready to go into months long football depression if we take Ferentz over Shanny or Schotty yeah let´s go College Coach....Butch, Petrino and Saban were so successful...so this is the way to go  Pioli should hire the best coach out there NOT his bets bud who could be a HC out there 
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Pioli, 43, was with the Browns when they went 11-5 in 1994 under Belichick, and everyone on that staff felt the team was on its way to glory before the team moved to Baltimore in 1995. If Pioli takes the Browns job, he would have the final say on the 53-man roster that Belichick had in New England.
That sounds familiar!! No thanks!!
BTTB
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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That sounds familiar!! No thanks!!
BTTB
Keep in mind the way it really works is in most places the GM does have the "final say" they do this so somebody is responcible or has the tie breaking vote so to speak, now the way it's suppose to work and the way it normally does is the GM & coach both agree on a 53 with the GM having the final vote, they work together, We Cleveland fans dont realize that because we've never seen it done  A good GM works with his coach
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he's a billionaire because his father was a billionaire
True enough,,,, but on his own,,, he became a millionaire. So the guy isn't exactly a slouch...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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According to the source, Lerner was not pleased when former Pittsburgh Steelers head coach Bill Cowher spurned his advances and so he is prepared to make what was described as a “huge” financial offer to Pioli that would include not only millions, but more importantly full control of the organization and the funds necessary to bring in Pioli’s first choice as head coach, Iowa’s Kirk Ferentz.
Lerner should have been shocked that Chin turned him..heck I knew that wasn't happening..he wasn't going to come to a division rival..
Although it has been widely speculated that Pioli might try to create a package deal that would include young Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels as his head coach, that is not the case. Pioli favors Ferentz, with whom he first worked under Bill Belichick when both were with the Browns 15 years ago.
Hmmmm while I don't like it ..Ferentz was high on Opie's list too.
I'd rather have a experienced coach..but I'll wait because it may not be him..
Hey ..at least Shannahan is free now..
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If Pioli wants Frentz then Pioli can stay in New England...can you say YUCK I also want not part of Magini or McDaniels of any other New England coach. Something that hans't been mentioned, and I have no idea why is this...If i was in Lerner's circle this is what I would set up. 1. I would talk to Marc Trestman...Trestman would be my 1st choice as Head Coach Look what he did with Bernie Kosar and others? wjhere do you think Bernie got his Offesive Understanding and Mind from? He got it from Trestman who was his coach in College and in the NFL with the Browns Look at what Trestman has done with Young Qb is immpressive...Trestman could do wonders with Quinn and may put him up there with the likes of Peyton Manning, Quinn has the tools, Trestman would go a long way in that regard,,,, Marc Trestman Bio Trestman is Currently Head Coaching a Canadian Football team to a very good record...this guy has "years" of NFL expereince...it worked out pretty well with Marvy Levy As for Defense, Either keep RAC(which im not a big fan of, but could live with) or Bring in Gunther Cunningham....Cunningham IMO is right up there with Dick Lebeau...Cunningham had some very good Defenses in KC before he was unwrongly fired and they tore his Defense Apart...KC hasn't been the same since they fired Gunther, and now he is working with Vermeil and Edwards Trash on that Defense... Cunningham is a very very very talented Defensive Coordinator and he would improve our D here immedialty Gunther Cunningham This is why im all for Schtenheimer or Kosar as GM..perferably Marty...Marty worked with Marc Trestman and Gunther Cunningham in Cleveland and Kanas City respectivly....Kosar could be brought in as Shot's right hand guy Trestman would improve our Offense Immensly....you have no idea...Having Trestman would be like having Bernie Kosar running the offense and he would do tons for Quinns Development Gunther Cunningham comes in and fixes our Defensive Woes working with Shot, same goes with Trestman for our O...all working with Shot who they are famlaiir with...Shot knows Talent, and having Bernie working with him is the way to go but we will most likely go with Pioli and some college coach or Mangini and we will be back here in 4 years Shot GM Kosar - Head Scount HC Marc Trestman DC- Gunther Cunningham OC Brian Schotenheimer This could be achieveable...but I doubt Randy is smart enough to do this...thought its what needs to be done Holmgren would be a nice alternative, but I think holmgren wants some time off Read up on Trestman and Gunther Cunningham, Im telling you...they make the most sense for this team, so does Marty Schotenheimer as GM
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j/c I have a question for all of you. If you had to choose between a coordinator in the NFL or a head coach in college to make the HC of the Browns, which would you choose? And you can't say neither or you have to wear a Steelers jersey to the Browns Backers day at training camp.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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If is a crooked word..
Sorry... I'm changing the rules..give me some college coachs vs NFL coordinators and I'll tell you.
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I only want a guy to coach the Browns if he has NFL head coaching experience of at least 4 years, has at least one super bowl ring, and a lifetime winning percentage of over .650 and a playoff winning percentage above .500... anybody who doesn't have that is worthless.
yebat' Putin
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Reading articles like you posted make me ill .. My problem is lack of confidence in Lerner , or should I say Lerner's ... Policy & Clark .. Davis .. Rac and then Savage .. We play in the AFC. North Randy , Hello  Do you plan on having the Browns run this Bend/But don't break " D " .. Gee , what about an Attack type " D " like the often play-off Bound Steelers or the Ravens ?? I'm tired of the Wine& Cheese looser image ! .. Need to stop reading this stuff for a day or two 
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Alright, fair enough. Let's just think about names being thrown around.
Ferentz
Urban Meyer
Spagnuolo
McDaniels
Schwartz
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Just those names???
Yuk...of that group I'd take Schwartz ...
But I keep hearing Tony Gross-me -out throwing Myer's name in the mix..I want no part of the Urban legend...
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I would seriously have to consider turning in my browns card if they hire Kirk Ferentz.
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Well, what other names would you like to see? Remember, this is only college coaches and coordinators, not anyone with HC experience in the NFL.
I'm not saying it's optimal, but I'd just like to see who people would prefer out of those categories.
Would you rather have someone with NFL coordinator experience who hasn't been a head coach before, or would you rather get someone who has been a successful head coach, just not with as much NFL experience?
Last edited by brownsfansince79; 12/31/08 10:27 AM.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I'd rather have Meyer over Ferentz, I mean at least Meyer can create a good program on some level, Iowa has been horrible the last few seasons.
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Is everybody down on a college coach because of Butch?
I didn't have a problem with Butch Davis the coach, my problem was with Butch the GM. If he had someone picking the groceries I think things would have been drastically different.
Is Ferentz really that bad if we have a solid GM in place to pick the right players for him?
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Quote:
I'd rather have Meyer over Ferentz, I mean at least Meyer can create a good program on some level, Iowa has been horrible the last few seasons.
Including this year when he coached Iowa to a New Year's Day bowl and coached the Doak Award Winner?
I think people are hating a little much on Ferentz. Is he my first choice, hell no, but he isn't nearly as bad as some of you are saying he is.
you had a good run Hank.
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The problem with college coaches with no NFL experience is more alarming because usually they can't handle the ego's and managing a team..if they don't have the dominate personality the players run over them.
At least the coordinator knows what it's like to deal with these massive ego's.
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Because big time college players don't have massive egos? 
yebat' Putin
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I didn't have a problem with Butch Davis the coach
Well I did. He was terrible at personnel management, he created a paranoid locker room, he couldn't make adjustments to save his life, his rear end puckered up everytime he got a lead later in a game and he would let the game get away because of it. I could go on but, I won't.
Oh, and he just sucked.
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They do have egos, but they are much easier to control because they are reliant on the Coach for PT, so they can showcase there skills and make money in the NFL.
Where as in the NFL they are already getting paid big time money, a lot of times making more money than the coach so they are much harder to handle.
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So you're saying you want Butch Davis to come back?
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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It's not the same..most of the players on a team know they're never get millions of dollars..most are role players..
Don't tell me coaching college kids is harder.
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The egos could be a big part of it. But doesn't it count for something that they have true head coaching experience? We saw what happened when we brought in a coordinator to a HC gig. He just seemed over his head with all the other responsibilities.
But, don't get me wrong. I am certainly not advocating anyone over anyone else. Frankly, I like Spagnuolo or Schwartz.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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How many college coaches who came up to the NFL are now back on the college level?
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no more college coaches the thought of Meyer or Frerentz makes me sick
GM Marty Schotenheimer
HC Marc Testman
OC Brian Schotenheimer or Kosar
DC Gunther Cunningham
We will be in the superbowl in 3 years time.....
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