|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659
Poser
|
Poser
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659 |
If I could chime in on a few things that has been said here.....
I'm not going to say DA isn't a good leader, but to say he is a better leader than BQ is pure speculation.....and untrue. In fact, those that I've talked to said that BQ is a better leader and when he is on the field, takes command of the huddle and is much more poised than DA. Again, that doesn't mean that DA isn't a good leader, it's just not correct that the players view him as a better leader than BQ..and those that you are leading are whose opinion counts as far as quality of leadership.
Someone said K2 should stay because Savage is gone. Let me reiterate that this was not something that K2 did to Savage. He was angry that the Browns dared talk about trading him, and Savage had to have RL's green light to do so, and blamed a staph infection he contracted AWAY FROM THE FACILITY and from a private decision HE made. He threw the organization under the bus knowing full well there could be no defense by the organization because of HIPPA laws. This whole situation was the fault of one person and that is K2, not Savage. Savage leaving has no bearing on K2's actions or his actions in the future.
Another post mentioned that DA is coachable but you can't coach arm strength. While that's true, DA has been coached for years on his terrible footwork and poor mechanics and they have not improved at all People fall in love with the cannon arm that can throw a deep ball. That's all well and good, but a ball controlled offense with a short, medium, AND long passing game is essential. BQ may not have the same arm strength, but he can make ALL the throws necessary to succeed. Trading BQ for a 1st would be the biggest mistake the franchise could make since it's return.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 214
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 214 |
I really think we need to throw a lot of money at Terrell Suggs and/or Karlos Dansby if they hit the market. We have to get at least 1 top linebacker in free agency considering how blatantly bad that unit was this year, clearly the weakness of the defense. WR, C, RG, CB, and S we get along with without making a big splash. We can add smaller names to upgrade or fill those holes. We would ideally get one linebacker in free agency and one in the first day of the draft, and then upgrade another position with our other first day pick.
Kinda like we would put priority on certain units or aspects of the team (i.e. pass rush or run defense) during each offseason under Savage and Crennel, I think this year that has to be the linebackers and the offense. Bring in 2 great linebackers, tweak the offensive line and maybe add a good WR and/or RB. If the QB plays well and if you have a manageable schedule you'll go to the playoffs history says. Quinn will play well next year if we have a good O-Line and better WR play, b/c the schedule looks like it'll be one of the most favorable in the NFL.
QB-Quinn
RB-Lewis or someone better (Jacobs?)
FB-Vickers
WR-Edwards
WR-Jurevicius or someone better (Houshmandzadeh or bring back A.Bryant?)
TE-Winslow
LT-Thomas
LG-Steinbach
C-Fraley or HOPEFULLY someone a lot better (maybe Mack or Unger in round 2)
RG-Tucker or Hadnot or someone like Duke Robinson in round 2
RT-Shaffer
LE-Corey Williams
NT-Shaun Rogers
RE-Robaire or Shaun Smith
LOLB-Kamerion Wimbley or Clint Sintim (round 2)
LILB-Aaron Curry (round 1) or Karlos Dansby or Spikes/Cushing/Sintim in round 2
RILB-D'Qwell Jackson
ROLB-Terrell Suggs or Brian Orakpo (round 1) Or Wimbley or Selvie/Jerry Hughes in round 2
LCB-Eric Wright
RCB-Brandon McDonald or maybe Dunta Robinson or Malcolm Jenkins (round 1)
FS-Brodney Pool
SS-Sean Jones or Jermaine Phillips or OJ Atogwe or maybe Rashad Johnson (round 2)
![[Linked Image from i232.photobucket.com]](http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/keylime_5/keylimesig.jpg)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 298
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 298 |
Quote:
Trading BQ for a 1st would be the biggest mistake the franchise could make since it's return.
That is where I disagree with you, Coach. If we can get a first rounder for him, and can draft a player like Maualuga, Cushing, or Spikes, I think that it is a no brainer. Our D has no identity, and our linebackers right now are possibly the worst in football. If we can sign T. Suggs, and get Curry and either Maualuga, Cushing or Spikes then our D becomes very good, and we end up with one of the best linebacking cores in the NFL with Suggs, Curry, Jackson, and Maualuga/Spikes/Cushing.
As I said earlier, DA has proven he can win games without a defense, lets see what he can do with one. Quinn has yet to prove anything, and from what I have seen, I don't think he is going to pan out. Quinns value right now, IMO, is as high as it is going to get, and if we can fool someone into giving us a first for him (Detroit), then we have to do it.
![[Linked Image from i161.photobucket.com]](http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t215/nick_ogrin/ogdawg.jpg) Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 604
All Pro
|
|
OP
All Pro
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 604 |
Quote:
If I could chime in on a few things that has been said here.....
I'm not going to say DA isn't a good leader, but to say he is a better leader than BQ is pure speculation.....and untrue. In fact, those that I've talked to said that BQ is a better leader and when he is on the field, takes command of the huddle and is much more poised than DA. Again, that doesn't mean that DA isn't a good leader, it's just not correct that the players view him as a better leader than BQ..and those that you are leading are whose opinion counts as far as quality of leadership.
Someone said K2 should stay because Savage is gone. Let me reiterate that this was not something that K2 did to Savage. He was angry that the Browns dared talk about trading him, and Savage had to have RL's green light to do so, and blamed a staph infection he contracted AWAY FROM THE FACILITY and from a private decision HE made. He threw the organization under the bus knowing full well there could be no defense by the organization because of HIPPA laws. This whole situation was the fault of one person and that is K2, not Savage. Savage leaving has no bearing on K2's actions or his actions in the future.
Another post mentioned that DA is coachable but you can't coach arm strength. While that's true, DA has been coached for years on his terrible footwork and poor mechanics and they have not improved at all People fall in love with the cannon arm that can throw a deep ball. That's all well and good, but a ball controlled offense with a short, medium, AND long passing game is essential. BQ may not have the same arm strength, but he can make ALL the throws necessary to succeed. Trading BQ for a 1st would be the biggest mistake the franchise could make since it's return.
Boy, we got alot of party poopers in here tonight.......ok, let me try and give my OPINION...cause that is all I'm doing here..about all of this craziness.....
1. I never said that anyone was a better leader than someone else...maybe someone else did..I think that they have about the same upsides ....
2. When I said that K2 should stay now that Savage is gone....I had 2 rerasons for that...one, they obviously didn't have the best relationship, and two, like I said in my post, there isn't another TE out there with even half of the talent as Winslow........never said who's fault everything was......
3. I did say you can't coach arm strength....and you can't....you say DA has been coached for years on his footwork and mechanics....by who Romeo..??? LOL..we see where that got us....and when he was with the Ravens, you think someone is gonna coach the 3rd string QB on his footwork and mechanics...???? I have not fell in love with his cannon arm, but just the pure idea that if he needs to get down the field, he can......and while a ball control offense can work for a little bit.....if defenses don't respect the deep ball, then you are doomed....ESPECIALLY with the division that we are in...you try to dink and dunk against the Ravens or the Steelers...and I can assure you, we will be in trouble.......
P.S.....I'm in here to just have fun......talk about my favorite team...and speculate on what I think would be a few good ideas.......not here to insult anyone........but coachb..this is the 3rd time that you have come across like this towards me.......is there a reason...?????.......  .......  ..... 
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Roscoe5319/Marty2.jpg) "Winning is not a some time thing, it's an all the time thing" ....-Lombardi-
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,540
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,540 |
Quote:
Ok, well when he ends up being a bust and we can't get anything for him, everyone will be sorry. Quinn IMO just isn't that good... If someone will give us a first for him then we have to make the trade. Chicago (18), Tampa (19), Detroit (20) and Minnesota (mid 20s) could all use a quarterback, and I think that one of them would be willing to trade us their first rounder for Quinn. Detroit being most likely because they have 2 first round picks, and they have no quarterback at all. They can address another position with their number 1 overall selection, and then trade their second first rounder for Quinn...it makes sense...
BASED ON WHAT? I have followed him for years and he is and will be good. He got thrown into the starting role when the team was in total disarray this year! NOT TO MENTION he had to sit on his butt while DA got second chance after second chance.... Seriously, think about what you're saying.
SO IF you did trade Quinn right now... WHO would want him since he is so obviously a bust, let alone WHO would be willing to give us a first rounder? AND we have ALOT more than a first rounder invested in him right now... but you want DA to play so we should tank him, right?
whatever..................................................
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 298
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 298 |
You sound alot more like a Brady fan then a Browns fan. Take a pill. Read my posts, it makes alot more sense then you might think.
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,540
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,540 |
I read your post. And don't even think about doubting that I am a BROWNS FAN. I want what is best for this team and that is BQ. AM I A BQ FAN - yes, he is our STARTING QB. DA is our back up....  Why not try to get a first rounder out of DA?  As a real fan and follower of the Browns, I see your post for what they are... blither.
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 01/04/09 12:19 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,744
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,744 |
Hey man CoachB just stated his opinion. I didn't see anything derogatory. Man it's message board, and we are all Browns Fan...GO BROWNS
Go Browns!!![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/BrowniePoints/AndersonSnowPic.jpg)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 232
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 232 |
Quote:
I read your post. And don't even think about doubting that I am a BROWNS FAN. I want what is best for this team and that is BQ. AM I A BQ FAN - yes, he is our STARTING QB.
DA is our back up....
Why not try to get a first rounder out of DA?
As a real fan and follower of the Browns, I see your post for what they are... blither.
Eh... I don't think we have a starting QB at the moment. We are getting a new head coach and a new GM.... who knows what they will do. Savage basically was married to Quinn for giving up 2 first day picks to get him... New regime is not. The only thing that sucks about DA is the cleveland fan base is so stupid... cheering his injury? blah...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,235
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,235 |
Do all you knee jerkers out there that want to trade Braylon realize that if we trade him we would have absolutely no recievers???
WR would become an immediate need, so where would we get our new #1 reciever???
Cleveland Browns, Space Browns ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/iVP5Po2.png)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659
Poser
|
|
Poser
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659 |
Roscoe, I was replying to many people at once, not just you. I believe it was Phil that was talking aobut DA being a better leader than BQ. I was simply passing on information as I always do. Next, it wasn't RAC coaching DA, it was Rip. It was also coaches from high school on. Sorry, the guy is just not good with anything other than the long ball. I wil also point out that DA has "proven" he can win when you have players making incredible circus catches to make up for his inaccuracy as well as not having a defense. He's also proven that once a DC has game film of him and takes away the long ball, he cannot adjust because his game is so limited and he fails to produce. K2 has some of the best hands in football, but couldn't block if you gave him a set of legos and sat him down with 3 year olds.  He also has NO DESIRE to block. In fact, 2 years ago, all he talked about in the meetings was his receptions and how he deserved the Pro Bowl. There was great resentment in the locker room for him from then until this very day because he is a ME first player. The tension wasn't with Savage, it was with the entire organization. It's also with his teammates. K2 also has a habit of mouthing off in the huddle and whining when he doesn't get the ball. The bottom line is that he might be able to catch the ball, but this is a case where you can get a better overall TE (Heiden is much more well rounded) into the game and get rid of a locker room distraction and selfish player. I havne't "come at" you in any way. If you took it that way, I apologize. You can't tell a tone on posts. I was simply reading what people were saying and letting them know a little more about the stiuations they are discussing. That way, they have all the facts when forming their opinons. I always say, you can take or leave the things I share from within the team. I have a perfect track record with things I've shared being confirmed in print later on. I just try to pass it along so that fans here on the board aren't forming their opinions without knowing the full situation. Those that have been around for a few years understand that, but as I said, with no way of knowing the tone of someone on a messageboard, things can be misinterpreted from their original intent.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 396
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 396 |
OgDawg at some point you have to determine who your franchise QB is and just go with him.
Part of the Browns inability to find success as a franchise since '99 is the constant revolving door at QB.
If your QB position isn't settled,then it doesn't bode well for the rest of the team.
Derek Anderson is kinda like Brady Anderson,he had a career year 2 seasons ago, he peaked,made the Pro Bowl.End of story.
Brady Quinn is just more mentally tough than DA.
Quinn may not have the downfield cannon DA has,but Quinn sees the field better in the 10-25 yd range.
Quinn will put the ball the correct shoulder of the WR on a route.
Anderson throws a INT,he can't get past it...he'll throw a couple more by the 4th quarter.
Quinn has resilance. He'll bounce back. No matter how many times he pressured,hit, sacked.
The Browns have had so many mentally fragile QB's since '99.
Quinn is as tough as they come.
The Browns need to deal away Anderson and bring in a vet like Kitna.
Quinn needs to know this is his team.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 298
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 298 |
Hey, I agree with you that the Browns need to find a long term solution at the QB position, and DA might not be, but I don't think Brady is either. IMO, Brady's value is as high as it will ever be, and if we can get a 1st for him, then I think we have to do it. I know that its not the popular opinion, but it is my honest opinion.
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659
Poser
|
|
Poser
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659 |
What are you basing that opinion on, Og? You say you don't think he will make it, but really don't give an explanation of how you came to that opinion. I'm curious to know why you feel that way.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
j/c
The Browns main needs in order are:
1. Linebacker (at least two)
2. O-Line (everything other than the left side)
3. Wide Receiver
4. Runningback
5. Corner
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 604
All Pro
|
|
OP
All Pro
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 604 |
Let me start off by first saying...sorry to coachb.......my bad.........second.....about BQ.....to ImpactPlaya.....while we haven't saw much from Brady to see how resilant he really is...I go back to his final year in collage where he played at Notre Dame.......when he played against Ohio State, and they was pressuring him almost every play, and sacked him numerous times......the final one being him getting upset, spiking the ball, and pouting like a little girl.........in fact, if I remember correctly, he even got a flag thrown on him for that little temper tantrum..........
"Winning is not a some time thing, it's an all the time thing" ....-Lombardi-
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 |
Quote:
Hey, I agree with you that the Browns need to find a long term solution at the QB position, and DA might not be, but I don't think Brady is either. IMO, Brady's value is as high as it will ever be, and if we can get a 1st for him, then I think we have to do it. I know that its not the popular opinion, but it is my honest opinion.
You don't feel like Quinn will pan out yet you feel his value is as high as ever implying that many other organizations in the NFL do feel like he will pan out by giving up a first for him.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338 |
Quote:
Quote:
Seattle might ask for Winslow...
Have you looked at their roster? 
They have a pup of a TE they're thrilled with.
Seattle team needs
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 298
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 298 |
Quote:
You don't feel like Quinn will pan out yet you feel his value is as high as ever implying that many other organizations in the NFL do feel like he will pan out by giving up a first for him
What I am saying is that he is still an open book, and if we can fool someone into giving us a first for him then we have to take it. The quarterback pool in free agency and the draft isn't that deep so I think it might be a possibility. I just see DAs ceiling as being higher.
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 298
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 298 |
CoachB, this is what I said earlier when asked the same question...
"Well, I wish I had stats to back up my thinking, but I obviously don't. I could be dead wrong about him, and he could be Joe Montana, but I don't think that I am. Part of it is that when I have seen him play, we have no vertical passing game...none, and that effects the running game. When he tried to go deep the ball was either under thrown, or no where near the receiver. If he could miraculously become better at the deep ball then I might change my opinion, but I don't see it happening. You can't live off throwing 5-10 yard passes all the time, defenses will adjust to that. The other problem with his patented 5-10 yard passing game is that it doesn't open up the run. In 07 when we had one of the best vertical passing games in the league it forced defenses to respect the deep ball which in turn opened up huge holes for Jamal, it isn't like Jamal's skills decreased that drastically this year, it was the fact that there was no holes to run through because defenders were stacking the box, and there was no where to run."
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 604
All Pro
|
|
OP
All Pro
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 604 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Seattle might ask for Winslow...
Have you looked at their roster?
They have a pup of a TE they're thrilled with.
Seattle team needs
DUDE...how old was that post.......John Carlson is a pimp...they don't need K2.......
"Winning is not a some time thing, it's an all the time thing" ....-Lombardi-
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 |
What you're saying is you are a DA fan.
Otherwise, there is no other logical explanation why you would think he has any "ceiling" at all. Have you watched the last season and a half?
I'll grant you that terrible play calling, terrible execution by players not named DA, and a horrendous coaching staff that had no idea how to put players into position to succeed all made DA look even worse ... however, come on, this guy is not a starting caliber QB in this league. What are you basing this "ceiling" on ? ... and please don't say his arm. If you come back with that crap, then I'll know you are full of it.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659
Poser
|
|
Poser
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659 |
Thanks, being a Johnny come lately that can only post when feeling up to it, I missed that. I will say that the game plan was changed to that style not because BQ can't throw the deep ball, but because it was safe on such a short time period of practice. BQ has the arm strength to make the throws necessary. He showed that not just in college, but in the combine and during OTAs and camp. We are also being just a bit harsh considering he didn't even play 3 full games I will say one more thing for you to chew on. You say we can't live on 10 yard passes.....welll there was this older white haired fellow that left Stanford a few years back and took his philosphy of just that to the NFL. He drafted a average armed QB in the 3rd round from Notre Dame. That worked out so well that BIll Walsh revolutionized the game with his west coast offense and Montana became a HOF QB. In fact, seldom did Montana throw the ball deeper than 20 yards. Almost all of the long plays were based on YAC. I would even be bold enough to say that in the weather in Cleveland, it is a better advantage to have an accurate short and mid-range passing attack than a deep one because the elements can so adversely affect the vertical passing game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 298
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 298 |
If being a DA fan is thinking he can be better then BQ, then I guess I am a DA fan, but my point from the beginning was that IF we can get a first rounder for Brady and draft Maualuga, Cushing, or Spikes with that pick then I think we have to jump on it. It is all about putting together a team that gives you the best chance to win, and IMO if we can get Suggs through FA, and draft Curry and Maualuga, Cushing or Spikes with DA at quarterback, that gives us the best chance.
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 298
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 298 |
You are absolutely right about the WCO, and if our next coach wants to run that style of offense then I think we hold on to BQ because he is alot better fit in that style of O then DA is. The problem is that right now that is not the type of offense we run, and if we are going to shift to that type of O then we definitley need to address the RB position because Jamal is the exact opposite of what kind of RB you want in that style of O.
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,795
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,795 |
Quote:
Quote:
People who don't think Quinn will pan out...why do you think that way?
Well, I wish I had stats to back up my thinking, but I obviously don't. I could be dead wrong about him, and he could be Joe Montana, but I don't think that I am. Part of it is that when I have seen him play, we have no vertical passing game...none, and that effects the running game. When he tried to go deep the ball was either under thrown, or no where near the receiver. If he could miraculously become better at the deep ball then I might change my opinion, but I don't see it happening. You can't live off throwing 5-10 yard passes all the time, defenses will adjust to that. The other problem with his patented 5-10 yard passing game is that it doesn't open up the run. In 07 when we had one of the best vertical passing games in the league it forced defenses to respect the deep ball which in turn opened up huge holes for Jamal, it isn't like Jamal's skills decreased that drastically this year, it was the fact that there was no holes to run through because defenders were stacking the box, and there was no where to run.
I think Quinn can be very good but I could be wrong. What I do know is that it is really impossible to judge him on what we saw this year. Look at his stats and he was God awful. The thing is we were God awful no mattewr who was QB. I think it had a lot more to do with blown routes and dropped passes. Add that to the fact the line looked nowhere as good as they did last year.
DA didn't get much blame after the first couple of games from many of the fans on here who think he won't pan out. Only after his horrible half at Cincy and his awful play in Washington did he get blamed for being terrible all year.
Quinn didn't look very good at times because of his play (like DA) but a lot of the time I think you can look at the supporting cast and say they hurt him.
I am not trying to compare DA and Quinn. DA has at least had about a couple dozen starts, while Quinn had two.
BTW..Pennington has a noodle arm and he did pretty well this year and had some good seasons in the past. Quinn's arm is pretty decent by most people's standards. The only pass that I wonder about is the deep out. I choose to believe those people (yes Diam is one of them) who have seen him throw that pattern many times.
Trading Quinn at this point would be stupid IMO. New staff, new offense (most likely) makes me think both need to stay. Let the new guy decide what he needs then dump DA if that is his choice.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 298
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 298 |
Yeah, I guess it just depends on what type of offense the next coach wants to run, if it is a WCO we go with BQ, if it is an air it out type O then we go with DA. Pretty simple, actually...
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
But hey, if that and DA's rocket arm is why you are in his corner, more power to you.
That's the problem with these QB debates...I ain't in DA's corner, bro.
I have little faith in either of them. To express a preference should not be indicative of being in one's corner.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338 |
Quote:
DUDE...how old was that post.......John Carlson is a pimp...they don't need K2.......
I forgoy about Carlson, I was just looking at possible teams needs...I would think it would be updated like their Mock...My bad
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
Look at his stats and he was God awful. The thing is we were God awful no mattewr who was QB.
From 1999 to today, this comment always has and always will make sense, from every regime to every QB.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849 |
j/c
I'm on the verge of saying lets get rid of Shaun Smith... I think Robaire and Ahtyba Rubin can hold it down.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338 |
Quote:
j/c
I'm on the verge of saying lets get rid of Shaun Smith... I think Robaire and Ahtyba Rubin can hold it down.
I too thought Rubin looked good in there. He got good penetration and held his own...
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 298
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 298 |
Quote:
I'm on the verge of saying lets get rid of Shaun Smith... I think Robaire and Ahtyba Rubin can hold it down.
Yeah, its hard to keep a guy who goes around talking trash and punching quarterbacks lol...I have no problem with Shaun Smith and its not like he makes bags and bags of cash, but if he is going to be a problem then we probably should cut ties. I think DE is a position that we should address in the draft in the middle rounds though.
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,849 |
I wouldn't mind picking up a mid round DE as well, but my only concern is this:
We need to draft guys that have a good chance of contributing right away. Drafting a DE even in the first round, has a slim chance of getting lots of playing time.
I'm really hoping we can get another 4th round pick by trading away DA. I would like to snag a WR, and/ or Corner.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 396
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 396 |
The Browns need to address LB above almost anything else. They really need a gamechanger at MLB...the Browns don't have any LB's that keep OC's sleepless at night.
You'd have to go back to Jamir Miller to when the Browns had a LB that could consistantly make plays on the field.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 298
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 298 |
I would try to get an experienced corner through free agency like Dunta Robinson rather then drafting an inexperienced one. Wright, Robinson, Mcdonald, and Holly would actually be pretty solid.
I am also with you as far as wanting to get a wide receiver, but this team has bigger needs right now. If we cut Stallworth that is one thing, but if we don't then I would rather just sign a vet like Engram.
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 298
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 298 |
Quote:
The Browns need to address LB above almost anything else.
Agreed, that is why I am saying that if we could get a first rounder for Quinn to get either Mauluga, Cushing, or Spikes along with Curry then we should definitely pull the trigger. Imagine if we signed Suggs too, our LBs would be amazing...Suggs, Maualuga, Jackson, Curry...WOW
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338 |
I really hope they can trade Quinn to the highest bidder, we need to be upgraded in overall talent and Quinn can help our TEAM by bringing something in return I really wish they would have took Minnesota's offer in October, although I hope we can find a desperate team to overpay. Savage is gone now, so if whoever the new coach is comes in and says that he wants DA ...Quinn will need to leave town. Or the new coach might want to draft a QB and deal Quinn. If it is Mangini it has to make you wonder, he was in New York when they had no QB's and Clemens was starting and passed him up in the draft. Pennington was hurt and getting driven out of town. They were one of the 21 teams that felt having a pro ready franchise QB wasn't really necessary.  Has to make you wonder.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,753
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,753 |
I took my time responding. Well, coming up with my own plan, but it is a response nonetheless. Some of this was based on FA List posted at https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/492900/page/0/fpart/all/vc/1Anyway, If I were GM...my thoughts as of Jan 3. Assumptions keeping the 3-4 defense we have CAP room for at least 1 big signing and others players chose in draft declare or are seniors Offseason focus new coaching staff ...Right now top choice is Mangini, but I'm open ...If Romeo was honest, give him DC job ...If Tucker is open to it, keep him as DB coach ...I'm ok with Chud as OC Figure out QB situation right away - Quinn or DA, get rid of the other. Pass Rush - be be successful, we must have a consistent pass rush Get Healthy Quality Depth - we've had so many injuries, we need quality depth Cleveland Free Agents.Andra Davis - thanks for your time as a Brown .Kris Griffin - resign for depth and special teams .Willie McGinest - thanks for your time as a Brown .Shantee Orr - bye .Travis Daniels - resign .Daven Holly - resign .Mike Adams - resign .Sean Jones - resign .Jason Wright - thanks for your time as a Brown .Darnell Dinkins - thanks for your time as a Brown .Lennie Friedmand - resign to short term contract .Seth McKinney - resign to short term contract .Scott Young - thanks for your time as a Brown Other Decisions to be made.Ken Dorsey - thanks for your time as a Brown .Bruce Gradkowski - not sure if he's signed for this season only or others, if more than this season, keep, else ??? .Santonio Thomas - hold until camp .Chase Pittman - hold until camp .Terry Cousin - hold until camp .Ryan Tucker - will he come back? .Joe Jurevicious - will be come back? .Derek Anderson - trade or cut. this may not be popular, but Savage gave him a contract that makes him too expensive to be a backup. while we lost out on potential first rounders for him last year, there are a couple teams that may be desperate for a young guy with starting experience in lieu of starting a 2009 early rounder (aka Detroit, KC). Also a couple teams may want a young backup with experience (Bills, SF, Denver). I'd guess 4th or 5th rounder is about the best we could end up with, though that is not shown as such in the draft below. Free Agency:1) OLB - assuming Baltimore does not resign or franchise Suggs, focus hard on Suggs. Also focus on Dansby, though as a second choice. 2) Other FA signings (in no particular order): ... Maurice Morris or Rudi Johnson - Morris is an effort guy, always. He may be looking for starting job since he's a career backup. Good runner, good blocker, decent hands. Though 29, never had more than 161 carries in a season. Johnson may be considered washed up, but he's 29 and should have a couple years tread left on those tires. Either should be a serviceable backup to Lewis for 2-3 years. ... Chris Kemoeatu, OG - Steinbach is our LG, no questions. Who is the right RG for ths team - Tucker? McKinney? Hadnot? Kemoeatu is an immediate improvement. ... Bart Scott, ILB - may be too high of a price to sign him with others. If not, brings talent, depth and experience to the ILB spot with Williams, Bell and Jackson. ... Veteran Backup QB - Chris Simms/JP Losman/Patrick Ramsey/Rex Grossman - this is the order in which I'd pursue. All have starting experience and all would be servicable backups. Charlie Batch is another name I'd consider. Draft:Round 1: Taylor Mays, Safety USC .. Probably not everyone's first choice. This pick is based on FA signings. He'd immediately start over Pool and has the potential to be a premier safety in the league. His speed and coverage skills are both very good, and he's known for bone jarring hits. This would give us flesibility to use Pool as S or CB if needed. Round 2: Russell Okung, OT Oklahoma State .. I can already hear this - who? Wonderful pass blocker and good rush blocker. Played both Left and Right Tackle at OSU and would likely step in immediately as the Browns RT. With Shaffer as backup RT, new RG Kemoeatu and a solid left side of the line, we'd have a premier OL for years to come. Round 3: no pick - for Martin Rucker pick from 2008 Round 4: Larry English, OLB Northern Illinois .. Known for his pass rushing at Northern Illinois. 53 tackles for loss and 35 sacks in his career. May go higher than this, but is currently rated 4th round from what I've read (mainly due to his perceived lack of speed which is expected to be in the 4.75 area). Round 5: no pick - for Paul Hubbard pick from 2008 Round 6: Jamar Chaney, ILB Mississippi State. .. Projected as 3rd or 4th rounder before season started. broke leg early in season and is applying for extra year of elibigility. if not granted, may be a steal in 6h round. Round 7: no pick - for Travis Daniels trade with Miami
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,445
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,445 |
Quote:
BQ may not have the same arm strength, but he can make ALL the throws necessary to succeed.
And this is one of the biggest things looked at in order to determine if you're looking at a potential "Franchise" caliber QB...And goes hand in hand with enuff arm strength to actually make those throws...MAJOR qualifier when looking at a QB...
Quote:
Trading BQ for a 1st would be the biggest mistake the franchise could make since it's return.
Totally agree...No bias toward either QB...
To the individual who's suggesting we trade Quinn for a 1st rounder...
There are numerous teams in this league who are STILL searching for stability at QB...The single MOST IMPORTANT position on any team...The Browns now have a QB who HAS Franchise potential...Several games of experience and 2 full seasons in the NFL...And u wanna trade him for a 1st round pick which in any other teams mind would be for a POTENTIAL FRANCHISE PLAYER...
NEVER do u let go of what is considered a "Franchise Caliber Player"...
There are FIVE "Positions" in the NFL that can be labeled as "Franchise" positions...And u can ask all 32 head cheeses in the league and they'd agree with this...And they will also tell u that these 5 positions are the hardest to fill...
QB
LT
#1 WR
DE (Specifically in a 4-3 D)...NT in a 3-4
#1 CB (And this one has dropped down to #5 with previous years rule changes)
As we sit TODAY...The arguement can be made that we have secured 4 of those 5...ALL FIVE when considering the 3-4 we run and Rogers at the Nose...And the 5th (DE) isn't even in the equation coming off a 3-4 D...And IT can be added to the list with a simple drafting of an Orakpo at 5 this year (IF we go 4-3)...Which I seriously DOUBT we do when Mangini becomes the HC of this team... 
At which time the concentration shifts to a LB...And THAT can be had with the simple drafting of a Curry at 5...
THAT IS WHAT U BUILD A TEAM AROUND...And u want to TRADE one of the most important equations of a building process???... 
Go Browns!!!
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum 2009 Starting Line-up, Free
Agency, Draft...
|
|
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)