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Who is necktie?
Shaffer.
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Think of the simpletons that were coaching this team starting with RAC, and is it really so hard to believe that they scaled back the playbook because a QB was making his first start?
They sure didn't seem to scale it back for DA last year (not his first overall start, fourth overall, but first in Chud's system which was, by all accounts, much more intricate than Carthon's).
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You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Also, if we are to change the offense or not, we absolutely need to rid ourselves of Necktie.
I don't know who is out there in the draft or free agency, but that right side of the line needs to be completely overhauled.
But I like the right side of the line.  Schaffer needs to go..I seen enough after he got bullrushed during the INDY game. That made me sick.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Lol, it all just depends on what the new coach and gm want to do, everything is just pure speculation at this point, and it makes for good conversation...even if it does get heated sometimes...Lol...I never thought bringing up trading BQ would lead to 4 pages of debating lol
![[Linked Image from i161.photobucket.com]](http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t215/nick_ogrin/ogdawg.jpg) Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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Also, if we are to change the offense or not, we absolutely need to rid ourselves of Necktie.
I don't know who is out there in the draft or free agency, but that right side of the line needs to be completely overhauled.
But I like the right side of the line. Schaffer needs to go..I seen enough after he got bullrushed during the INDY game. That made me sick.
Ugh.
Shaffer getting DA killed was the moment that I was completely done with that POS.
you had a good run Hank.
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I never thought bringing up trading BQ would lead to 4 pages of debating lol
It's okay, you're new, you'll learn.
you had a good run Hank.
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Shaffer getting DA killed was the moment that I was completely done with that POS.
Agreed, he is terrible...worst case scenario Ryan Tucker plays right tackle and we keep Hadnot at guard, but I would like to go out and get another tackle like Tauscher from Green Bay.
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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Legend
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I think Hadnot is the weak link. Schaffer held his own when tuck was at RG.
I said it somewhere else but Hadnot is the one player I absolutely don't want to see next year. Terry Cousins is a close second.
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I never thought bringing up trading BQ would lead to 4 pages of debating lol
It's okay, you're new, you'll learn.
Lol, not really new, I just just haven't posted that much lately. I had 1300 posts on Browns Chat on the official website but I got suspended for posting pictures of Sarah Palins daughter drinking and playing with guns, and then I got banned for ghosting under suspension so I had to find a new board lol
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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LOL, I am one of about three who is advocating drafting Andre Smith at #5 over in the Draft thread in the Tailgate Lot.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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I think Hadnot is the weak link. Schaffer held his own when tuck was at RG.
I never really thought that much of Shaffer either way, but seeing him get bullrushed by a 225 lb lineman put me over the edge. Tucker just helped cover up Shaffers awfulness lol
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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I think Hadnot is the weak link. Schaffer held his own when tuck was at RG.
I said it somewhere else but Hadnot is the one player I absolutely don't want to see next year. Terry Cousins is a close second.
Neither are world beaters. We need someone on that side of the line to be an anchor...and I just don't know where to put them. Preferably it would be at guard, so then both Hank and Shaffer could get helped if we weren't able to replace them.
I'm very glad I'm not the GM.
you had a good run Hank.
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DA hasn't adjusted. I know some people may like him, fall in love with his arm, but if you think DA can pick apart a defense, then I question if we have been watching the same game.
I guessed you missed the Giants game. When DA had targets that executed he performed well. That point can be made with most QBs in this league. What the stats don't show is that DA was more accurate in his throws this year. Its the many dropped passes that cloud that fact. Occasionally, he did throw that "what the heck was he throwing at" pass and I think he forced things more this year because he had no reliable out. All quarterbacks would do that. I'm not discrediting what we may have in Quinn by any means and am not taking sides. I 'm just throwing out facts that you can only get from watching the games. DA did have some horrible games. After the first Baltimore game and durring the first half of the folowing Cinci game I was calling for DA to be pulled too. Then DA pulled that pickless streak and I remembered that Derek Anderson is a young quarterback and can learn and adjust. Quinn is the same. He'll grow, make mistakes, and adjust. They'll have good days and bad days, but to say that DA is incapable of picking apart defenses is untrue because he did it.
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Legend
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If all of your experience is from THAT OFFICIAL board... you're a noob. This sites structure was the way the official board used to be before they ruined it. Many if not most of the oldtimers came here when the site changed format. I won't name names... but some of these Hall of Famers know football inside and out. They argue and agree, they agree to dis agree, or they just tell it like it is... but at the end of the day, they usually get it right. I can't tell you haw many times I have logged on and read some of the post and the next day a sports writer releases an article that looks just like the conversation on here. I truly think any REAL Browns fan should be a member of this board. You won't find many fairweather fans here... unlike the official board. We might ... and moan about players, coaches, management, etc. ... but we are all 100% die hard. 
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I think Hadnot is the weak link. Schaffer held his own when tuck was at RG.
I said it somewhere else but Hadnot is the one player I absolutely don't want to see next year. Terry Cousins is a close second.
Neither are world beaters. We need someone on that side of the line to be an anchor...and I just don't know where to put them. Preferably it would be at guard, so then both Hank and Shaffer could get helped if we weren't able to replace them.
I'm very glad I'm not the GM.
Agreed, I was extremely displeased with Hadnot's and Cousin's play. Shaffer, too wasn't a stud but a solid guard would greatly improve that side. When Tucker was healthy (though that was a rarety this year), that right side performed up to par. Likewise, we saw improvement in our secondary untill we were forced into nickel and dime packages, then offenses could just find the man Cousins was on.
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For this year it was 17.7 ppg.
Now compare Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Washington defenses to Denver, Houston and Buffalo.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Legend
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LOL, give it a rest. PLEASE......... 
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Wow, so much misinformation in such a short amount of time. See what happens when I lay down because I feel bad?
Loyal, we'll go through all your inaccurate statements first.
DA has NOT proven he can make all the throws. Do you want me to post the numbers again? On his short and intermediate throws, he is less than 40% and the AVERAGE QB was in the 60% range. So, don't make untrue statements and expect them to go unchecked.
BQ WAS injure and it DID affect him. He didn't want to come out because he finally got his chance. I KNOW this for a fact, I'm not just guessing. I heard this from members of the team and even posted the news about the injury before it hit the media.
The playcalling was made the way it was because of the limited amount of time that BQ had to prepare for the Denver game. Add to that the fact that it's his first starting stints and the staff wanted to keep the mistakes from nerves to a minimum. The game hasn't slowed down for him (how could it when he hadn't played in any games) so the staff felt it was best to play it safe. I KNOW that for a fact as well, as I heard that from players AND coaches.
The reason that DA was given a 3 year deal is because that is what his agent wanted. If they had been sold on DA, as you claim a 3 year deal is evidence of, they would have locked him up for a 5 or 6 year deal that his agent originally wanted. The Browns wanted to see if he could improve and also didn't want to risk POSSIBLY giving up a QB before they knew what they had. The deal allows the Browns to dump Anderson with little cap problems and it was a great way to protect the team. I KNOW all these things as facts as well.
Now, Ogdog, to answer your question, NO, I do not trade BQ for a 1st to get another LB in the draft. The reasons are quite simple. First, it is unknown if BQ is a franchise QB or not You do NOT trade one for a LB, though, I do know that much A franchise QB is the CORNERSTONE of a team. Add to that the fact that I feel Maugala (or however you spell his name) is VASTLY overrated and that makes if perfectly clear to me that you DO NOT trade BQ for a 1st to draft him. I would say that you can be just as solid, if you fel you absolutely have to, by drafting Curry in the first and then looking at Matthews in the 2nd.
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I
I won't name names... but some of these Hall of Famers know football inside and out.
Wow thanks for the compliment 
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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I would take that GM job! I wouldn't last long but I wouldn't last long but I would take it... LOL 
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I'd say you're welcome but I don't have a clue who you are...
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LOL, yankin ur chain.
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Yup, if the new coach wants to run a WCO then Brady is our man, but if he wants to run an air it out type O then we go with DA
That's pretty much what it comes down to. 
Those who love DA will continue to pimp him...those who love BQ will do the same.
But the truth is, neither one looks to be the next best thing...in fact, they both look kind of weak...your quote is the bottom line.
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Stop pimping yourself, Old. When I meet with Lerner I'm NOT reccomending you as my GM. 
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Loyal, we'll go through all your inaccurate statements first.
Nice....I thought we had a talk about tone and demeanor. Let's try it.
Coach, we will go through all of your innacurate statements first.
How did I come off? We can continue to work on it.LOL
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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When you state something as fact that is not correct, it is inaccurate. That tone is much more polite than just calling you a liar, wouldn't you agree? Sorry, you are wrong in what you said. Instead of either admitting you are wrong when facts are presented or trying to refute the facts, you resort to that type of reply? I guess when your point of view is shown to not be based on facts, there's littlle else to say.  OK, now, please point out anything that I said that was inaccurate. Keep in mind, I have no problem posting the numbers again even though they are already in this thread.
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When you state something as fact that is not correct, it is inaccurate. That tone is much more polite than just calling you a liar, wouldn't you agree?
Sorry, you are wrong in what you said. Instead of either admitting you are wrong when facts are presented or trying to refute the facts, you resort to that type of reply? I guess when your point of view is shown to not be based on facts, there's littlle else to say.
OK, now, please point out anything that I said that was inaccurate. Keep in mind, I have no problem posting the numbers again even though they are already in this thread.
Yes please post the numbers again...if you can can you put Quinns numbers next to it for comparisons sake 
So what you are saying is that Quinn decides who plays and not the Coach? Does that mean he is a me guy not a team guy if he knew he was not fit to play? Does that say anything about his Character to put himself and his agenda before the team?
You state Andersons agent wanted a three year deal..Of course he did...in three years he would be a free agent and only 27 years old with One Pro-Bowl under his belt. If the team didn't implode before the season and Edwards caught a few more balls...things could be totally different.
I haven't seen any facts that you have stated..only opinions and we both know opinions can't be wrong, so I can't call you a liar
So you will understand the type of replies you get when you refuse to accept facts...I understand now. Thanx
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Here are DA's stats for the ENTIRE SEASON. I'm not going to post BQ's because 2 1/2 games is not a measuring stick no matter how much you want it to be. Here are the completion percentages for DA this year: 1-10 yds. 54.2% 11-20 yds. 37.5% 21-30 yds. 30.8% 31-40 yds.20.0% 41+ yds.20.0% Now, here are the stats for the 18the rated QB in the league. That is BELOW THE AVERAGE QB, mind you: 1-10 yds. 70.2% 11-20 yds.46.1% 21-30 yds. 28.6% 31-40 yds. 26.7% 41+ yds. 33.3% Now, tell me again how great DA is again.  As to the rest, read the previous post again. I didn't post OPINIOINS, I posted FACTS. I posted what actually happened, not suppositions or opinoins. I posted what was told to me by those WITHIN the organization. I didn't sit here and draw conclusions based on conjecture from watching a TV screen. As for BQ's injury, you see, if a doctor tells a team that the player won't cause further injury by playing, the team then leaves it up to the PLAYER as tow whether or not he can go, depending on the pain. Your comments trying to twist that is kinda funny. After all, I"m sure you were a big fan of Bernie Kosar.....the guy that would literally HIDE from the trainers and coaches to conceal an injury and keep playing. Now, again, please show any inaccuracies in my post previously or this post. You can't because there are NONE.....unless you know more sitting and watching the games on TV, as you said you did to draw your conclusions, than those that are actually a PART OF THE TEAM.
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Can I have a link...I like to know stuff like how many attempts and compare. You can PM if it makes you feel better.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Now, tell me again how great DA is again.
He's not.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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...unless you know more sitting and watching the games on TV, as you said you did to draw your conclusions, than those that are actually a PART OF THE TEAM.
Hey I'm part of the team too! You sure do fetch them balls nice.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Can I get a link to those numbers because I would like to see DAs numbers from 07, and I would also like to see BQs numbers from this year.
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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As to the rest, read the previous post again. I didn't post OPINIOINS, I posted FACTS. I posted what actually happened, not suppositions or opinoins. I posted what was told to me by those WITHIN the organization. I didn't sit here and draw conclusions based on conjecture from watching a TV screen.
Ok, this has to stop somewhere. I cant say I disagree with anything you have said Coach, and I have no issues with you. However it is not fair of you to constantly tell anyone who disagrees with you that they have a opinion, while what you say is fact. I do not doubt that you have sources within the rganization that share information with you and a lot of things you have said have proven themselves to come out to be true. However, this does not change your opinions to facts. The information you get from inside is still someones opinion. Very well informed opinion, but opinion none the less.
I think Loyal is FOS, just the same as you do, but he is entitled to his opinion , no matter how wrong he is
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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I"m sure you were a big fan of Bernie Kosar.....the guy that would literally HIDE from the trainers and coaches to conceal an injury and keep playing.
It's funny you bring up Kosar..Did you know he had a 50% completion percentage and a 69 QB rating, to go along with 8 TD and 7 int. his first year. This absolutely is evidence that there is hope for Quinn.  The strange thing is those numbers are very similar to DA's this year.. except DA had 9 TD and 8 int's in 10 games instead of 12
Goodnight everyone and be safe...GO BROWNS.
Coach ...whenever you get a chance I would like that link..I can't find it anywhere. Peace to you
Last edited by LOYALDAWG; 01/05/09 01:08 AM.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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I think Loyal is FOS, just the same as you do, but he is entitled to his opinion , no matter how wrong he is
Gold 
Loyal, you have Official Board "Browns chat" written all over you.
The reason why you are encountering such steadfast exasperation on this subject, is that it's been done to death many many times over, on these very boards.
A quick search (providing such "Deadbate" threads haven't been purged) should yield plenty of threads that you can go-over and peruse to your hearts' content.
I'm guessing, that in such threads, you'll find many opinions that match yours, and many that take the opposing view....much like what you're experiencing now in fact.
The rest of us, have done this to death and will wait for this to play out mate. As always, Go Browns
(Who'd have thought Couch v Holcomb would be forgotten so soon?  )
#gmstrong
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Why not, we could be the shortest tenured management staff in the history of the NFL. Don't you want to set an NFL record?
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Kingo, the difference is that Loyal is posting what he THINKS happened with the BQ injury, DA's contract, etc. I am posting what acutally happened. That's opinion vs. fact. I trust the people I talk to. They've never been wrong when they told me what has happened or why something happened. They are there in the midst of all of it. I CLEARLY state when I am giving an opinion and not passing along information from friends.
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Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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I have them saved to my laptop for both seasons for all the QBs in the league. I don't have the link, but if you google, there are many sites that list the splits for QB stats. Here are DA's numbers with the same comparison to another QB last year that was ranked 19th in the league:
DA 2007
1-10 yds. 62.0%
11-20 yds. 49.75
21-30 yds. 40.7%
31-40 yds. 33.3%
41+ yds. 0.0%
19th ranked QB
1-10 yds. 71.0 %
11-20 yds. 55.3%
21-30 yds.33.3%
31-40 yds.21.1%
41+ yds. 20.0 %
So, DA didn't improve at all in in his weaknesses. In fact, he digressed. So, as you can plainly see, DA can't make "all the throws" that is necessary...he can't even make the throws that a QB below the average QB in the NFL makes.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
J/C http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/news/story?id=3811083Not sure where he will get rated, but this guy reminds me a lot of Anquan Boldin. If he somehow slips out of round1 (probably doubtful, but he's not currently on the Scout Inc's top32 and they include underclassmen), then he would be a worthwhile pickup in round2. =============================== UNC wideout Nicks to enter draft By Heather Dinich ESPN.com (Archive) Updated: January 5, 2009, 12:48 PM ET Comment Email Print North Carolina receiver Hakeem Nicks has decided to forgo his senior season and enter the NFL draft, the school announced Monday. The decision comes as little surprise, as Nicks wowed NFL scouts with a record-setting season that was highlighted by his behind-the-back catch in the Meineke Car Care Bowl. [+] EnlargeAP Photo/Gerry Broome Junior Hakeem Nicks set a Tar Heels bowl record with 217 receiving yards in the Meineke Car Care Bowl. In his final performance, Nicks caught eight passes for a UNC bowl-record 217 yards and three touchdowns in the 31-30 loss to West Virginia. Nicks, who moved into the spotlight in place of injured record-setter Brandon Tate, set UNC single-season records in 2008 for receiving yards (1,222) and touchdowns (12). He finished his career having set 14 school records. Nicks said he spoke with coach Butch Davis about his decision after the bowl game, and that he valued Davis' NFL experience and contacts. Davis spent 10 years in the NFL with Dallas and Cleveland. "I spoke to several different NFL people on Hakeem's behalf before the bowl game, including coaches, general managers, owners, and position coaches," Davis stated in a release. "We also submitted paperwork to the NFL advisory committee. I shared all of this information with Hakeem in Charlotte after the bowl game and I know he is making a thoughtful and informed decision. "I believe he has the physical and mental makeup to be a productive NFL player for many years," Davis said. "We will always be thankful to Hakeem for what he has done for this program and the exciting times he provided the Carolina fans." ACC blog ESPN.com's Heather Dinich writes about all things ACC in her conference blog. • Blog network Nicks set school records for career receptions (181), career receiving yards (2,580) and career touchdowns (21). He is the only player in UNC history with more than 1,000 yards receiving in a season. Nicks surpassed the 100-yard receiving mark five times in 2008 and 10 times in his career, both UNC records. He led the ACC and ranks 12th in the country with 94.0 yards per game. The only three-year player in ACC history with more career receiving yards than Nicks is former Georgia Tech All-American and 2007 NFL first-round pick Calvin Johnson.
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