DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum 2008/2009 Cavaliers-January Edition

Holy cow ... I just did the math again, and I've I'm not missing something, we have a TON of cap room for 2010.

To make the math slightly easier, let's assume the cap will be around $60 million (it's actually like $58.7m now). A max contract, as I understand it, can be 30% of the salary cap, which means around $19.5m a year.

As of right now ... we have only 4 people signed past 2010:
Daniel Gibson $3,700,000 5 years left
Darnell Jackson $450,000 3 years left
Delonte West $3,850,000 3 left
Mo Williams $8,353,000 4 left

That's only $16.4 million on the books!!!

Am I missing something??

Technically if we wanted, we could let everyone expire ... and sign Chris Bosh and Dwayne Wade to max deals at $20m each, and still be a few million under the cap. We could then sign Lebron with Larry Bird Rule, to go over the cap legally. Sure, we'd have no money for bench players ... but that's just a minor detail.

But at any rate, even if we DON'T sign two mega-stars on top of Lebron ... if you figure we'll try and sign one superstar at $20 million ... that still leaves us around $23 million UNDER the cap for 2010. Of the players expiring THIS year. Andy is probably the only one I'd want to retain. If we were to get him to agree to a $13 a year contract ... we would STILL have cap space to trade for a guy right now that would take up around $10 million in cap space.

That means trading Wally for a guy like Antawn Jameson, wouldn't really hurt us at all!

Not to mention, if we were to get Bosh in 2010 ... we'd have a starting rotation of Bosh, Jamison, LeBron, Delonte and Mo, with Andy and Gibson coming off the bench. Yikes!

that, and i think west and jackson's deals for beyond 2010 are options...

so technically we could only have mo and boobie on our payroll..

regardless, we will be a force in 2010, and i find it funny that espn and their bogus reporting always forget to mention that.

By contrast ... the Knicks will have only $6 million on the payroll for next year. Their only problem of course is ... they can't use the Bird rule to their favor. The best they can hope for is to sign two superstars at the max, and then fill up the roster with whatever cap space is left. We on the other hand can sign one or two superstars, use up the remaining cap space, and THEN sign Lebron, via the Bird-rule on top of that.

The team we really need to fear is not New York, but Miami or Toronto. Toronto has $7m committed past 2010, and Miami $9m. They can conceivably do what we want to do ... sign one or two of the "superstars", and then retain their current superstar through the Bird rule. Miami beach is pretty enticing ... I'd be worried about them the most.

Yeah, I don't see LeBron bolting for Toronto lol...Miami maybe, but I doubt that LeBron would go to D-Wade, but D-Wade could possibly come to Lebron

that's the thing about the knicks, they could realistically bring lebron and bosh, or wade in, but then, after that, what will they do?

you need role guys in the nba, you need a bench... they won't be able to fill that...

and there's all this talk of bringing in steve nash... he'll be 37 when 2010 rolls around... i don't know why that would be a draw for lebron, or anyone else...

i also love delusional nba analysts, and even fans who worship mike dantoni's philosophy and style of play...

that style will never win a championship, never.

as long as the bostons, detroits, clevelands, and san antonios are around, that style will always fizzle in the playoffs. sorry, espn.

i also don't see the draw in that style, sure a lot of scoring, but no defense, and a ton of uncontested baskets. that's not basketball folks. that's european.

when lebron said 2010 would be a big year, it will be for the knicks, they may not get lebron, but they will probably land someone, there are so many free agents...

so really, he wasn't lying.

i think the big bad boston celtics might be cracking a bit, they just dropped one to the lowly charlotte bobcats tonight....

obviously, we take care of business tomorrow against this charlotte team that is probably on their best high in years...

but friday night, without z, we need to run boston right out of our building... you gotta kick a team when they're down like this...

we're scuffling a bit because z's hurt, what's their excuse?

In all seriousness, I watched almost all of the 2nd half, and Charlotte really played well.. They were down by 7 in the 4th quarter and did not fold. Morrison and Felton hit some huge shots down the stretch.. They also played some pretty good D..

The only problem we are gonna have against Boston is rebounding.. Our defensive rebounding has been horrific the past 2 weeks, and Perkins/KG/Powe make a living on the offensive glass.

Should be fun, gotta get Mo handling the ball more. Lately it has been way too much of the LB show pounding the ball up top sizing up the D late in the shot clock. Gotta get back to Mo directing traffic out their... LB can always come take over if need be, but we do so much better when he starts posessions off the ball...

The Celtics loss tonight puts the Cavs in first place in the East.

Cavs are wearing new Uni's tomorrow, FYI:

What year are they from?

Thanks

Quote:

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Should be fun, gotta get Mo handling the ball more. Lately it has been way too much of the LB show pounding the ball up top sizing up the D late in the shot clock. Gotta get back to Mo directing traffic out their... LB can always come take over if need be, but we do so much better when he starts posessions off the ball...

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U got that right...

Two things have been happening...We're gettin' hit hard on the defensive boards...That ain't our norm...We almost always own the boards at the defensive end...And it ain't because Z's out...Been happening for 3 weeks now...It's our IDENTITY...

And what happened to that crisp passing...Getting Bron away from the 3 line and that stagnant offense we've relied on in previous years is exactly what's gotten us where we are...It's why we can hit 100+ on any given night...That crisp dishin' was giving us excellent open looks constantly and was unstoppable...It was the beginning of our Offensive IDENTITY and we've gotten away from it...Again...It ain't cause Z's out...Been this way for 3 weeks now...Avging 96 the last 10...And the FG % has gone down because of it...

actually, i believe it is because of z...

and he's been hurt for more than 3 weeks, the injury happened a month ago, and the cavs have really not been the same since.

he may have just started missing games, but he was injured in the game at philly back in mid december.

z, before he got hurt, was a consant. the mid range shot, the offensive rebounding, the blocked shots, he was just as important to our offense as lebron...

so, i do believe that is why we're struggling, we have to learn to play without him.

Cavs looking like themselves so far at home versus the Bobcats tonight.

56-34 late in the 2nd quarter.

uni's look sharp.. as does the offense

18-0 at home with Boston coming to town on Friday in a battle for the #1 spot in the League on the line.... this thing is beautiful

Celtics lost again. We're now a game up in the East and two games up in the loss column

could someone explain the Bird-rule to me?

link

Perhaps the most well-known of the NBA's salary cap exceptions, it is so named because the Boston Celtics were the first team permitted to exceed the salary cap to re-sign one of their own players (in that case, Larry Bird). Free agents who qualify for this exception are called "qualifying veteran free agents" or "Bird Free Agents" in the CBA, and this exception falls under the auspices of the Veteran Free Agent exception. In a nutshell, the Larry Bird exception allows teams to exceed the salary cap to re-sign their own free agents, at an amount up to the maximum salary. To qualify as a Bird free agent, a player must have played three seasons without being waived or changing teams as a free agent. This means a player can obtain "Bird rights" by playing under three one-year contracts, a single contract of at least three years, or any combination thereof. It also means that when a player is traded, his Bird rights are traded with him, and his new team can use the Bird exception to re-sign him. Bird-exception contracts can be up to six years in length.

Thanks

So wait, does that mean if we're $1 under the salary cap we could still sign LeBron to a maximum deal?

So to add to that ... I suppose it's theoretically possible to sign Bosh AND Wade to $20 million dollar contracts and still be under the cap. Then with the Bird rule, we could sign everyone left on our roster to any contract we felt was reasonable.

The bad news is that it also means that the Knicks could theoretically do that too ... Sign Bosh, Lebron and Wade to max contracts (although, they would be DAMN close to the cap) and then just resign everyone on thier current roster.

So if we're past the cap limit, does that mean we can't sign anyone we draft in the upcoming years until we're below?

Cavs were on last night! When our shots are falling, we're unbeatable. Made playing without Z a little more bearable. I knew when I saw that 3-pointer from Szczerbiak that bounced off the rim, hit the backboard, and then went in, that there was no way we were losing that game. Lebron also hit a shot that had a very nice home-field bounce to it.

Anyway, bring on the Celtics! It's going to be crazy at the Q. Playoff atmosphere. Love to see us blow them out of the arena in the first half.

Love the demeanor of this team and it's leadership. We're focused and prepared every game. Such a great thing to see. They could have easily looked past the Bobcats to the Celts, but obviously, they didn't.

Yes, you can sign players when you are over the cap. The Cavs, for instance, still have a $5+ million mid-level exception, and we are millions over the cap (maybe $20 million or so). We can also grow our cap number by taking back more salary in a trade. I believe the number in matching salaries for a trade to be legal is 20 or 25%??? Too lazy to confirm right now.

Tonight's the night!

Cavs vs Celtics on ESPN! Cavs haven't really been themselves without Z, but the Celtics have lost 6 of 8?? And they aren't really missing anyone either. Lets hope the Cavs stay perfect at home.

BIG game tonight! I expect it to be a slugfest, lets just hope we come out on top. It is going to be tough to match up inside without Z though, so our perimeter shooters need to be on.

I am sensing a fight between Andy and KG.

I could see Perkins and AV getting into it. Perkins is a little b-word.

wow..that's EXACTLY what i thought too

Very close Excl. It's TMac Ben is texting, not Ron. Too bad.

Don't be stupid, nothing like that could ever happen.. sheesh.

Good lil' Roundtable here...

Highlighted by these last two...


5. Fact or Fiction: The Cavs' championship window is smaller than the Celtics'.

Abbott: Fiction.
The Cavaliers are guaranteed at least this season and next. If James returns -- it could happen -- then the window extends the length of his next contract. The Celtics, on the other hand, rely on four stars. Three of them are older than 30, and two of them could be free agents in 2010, just like James.

Adande: Fiction.
Even if James stays in Cleveland only through the 2009-10 season, the Cavs' window is twice as large as Boston's. This is it for the Celtics.

They could win it all this season, giving them back-to-back titles (something Larry Bird's squads never got), and that would amount to a nice little run. But Garnett, Pierce and Ray Allen are in their 30s. Garnett has played more than 1,000 games. One of the reasons they meshed so quickly last season was because they realized they didn't have much time to get this done. It was cohesion formed by urgency.

James just turned 24. Imagine how long the Cavaliers could rule the Eastern Conference if he does stay in Cleveland. Everyone's been so caught up in trying to figure out where he'll go next that they haven't considered that possibility.

Broussard: Fiction.
Even if James jets in 2010 (far from a foregone conclusion), the Cavs will probably move ahead of Boston next season as the favorite in the East. The Celtics' age is going to begin to show, so they need to take care of business this season. They'll still be a contender next season, but the Cavs' window will only open more while Boston's will close a little.

Bucher: Fiction.
Even if you buy into the idea James is gone in '10, that gives them two shots at a ring, which is about what the Celtics have. Considering the entire power structure of the league is potentially up for grabs two summers from now, projecting who will be a legit contender beyond that is pointless.

Hollinger: Fiction.
Cleveland's window shuts only if James leaves as a free agent in 2010, which, contrary to the beliefs of many New Yorkers, is far from a given at this point. If he stays, the Cavs will have the best player in the league and he'll only be 26 at the time, which leaves the window wide, wide open for several years into the future.

The Celtics' window, on the other hand, probably slams shut after next season regardless. So maybe the two windows will shut at the same time, but there's little chance Boston's will stay open longer than Cleveland's.

Sheridan: Fiction.
Each team has about two seasons remaining as equal shots to win the title. After that, the Celtics will fade due to age, whereas the Cavs are aiming to stay at the top for another 7-8 years; something they can do if they re-sign LBJ in 2010.

Stein: Fact. Or maybe fiction.
It's a obviously a full-fledged fact if James leaves in the summer of 2010.

It's just as obviously fiction if he stays.

If someone out there secretly knows what's going to happen 18 months from now, please send in your anonymous tips and we'll adjust this answer accordingly.

6. Fact or Fiction: The Celtics will repeat as Eastern Conference champs.

Abbott: Fact.
But I'm not putting money on it.


Adande: Fiction.
Cleveland wins the East this season.

Broussard: Fiction.
It's James' time, baby. LBJ versus Kobe in June.

Bucher: Fiction.
If James attacks the rim and defends the way he has so far, the Celtics have no answer for him.

Hollinger: Fiction.
I already gave this away in my 2009 predictions, but Cleveland has the one trump card nobody can touch: In a postseason game, they can play the best player in the world all 48 minutes. That's why the Cavs-Celts series last season was so close, even after Cleveland had a mediocre regular season. And if the Cavs have home court, forget it.

Sheridan: Fiction.
Depends where Game 7 is played, another thing that makes Friday night's game so huge. Generally, though, I think the Cavs are hungrier. In a lot of ways, that made all the difference for Boston several times last postseason, and not just against Cleveland.


Stein: Fact.
It'll be easier to say so when we know for sure whether the Celtics have home-court advantage all the way through the East playoffs and which team -- Boston or Cleveland -- has to face Orlando in Round 2.

But it's way too early to abandon preseason predictions. Can't do that without a catastrophic injury or landscape-changing trade that mandates a rethink.

I also won't be surprised in the least if the Celts respond to all the negativity by winning Friday night's visit to Cleveland and changing their outlook completely, much like the Lakers did by beating Boston on Christmas Day. The Lakers' December slump wasn't as deep as Boston's current funk, but there are some similarities here.

The Cavs are more than due for a home loss after their 18-0 start at the Q -- just as the Celts were due for an L after showing up in L.A. with a 19-game win streak -- and no one seems to think much of Boston right now. Which is reminiscent of what folks were saying a few weeks back about the Lakers.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=CelticsCavsRoundup-090109