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I'm rooting for Shanahan and McKay to get the job(s). Experience. I think it would be a perfect fit.
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It's worrisome, because Mangini hasn't won anything, and the Browns desperately need someone who has.
I'm not sure where this "Mangini hasn't won anything" attitude is coming from?
The Jets were 4-12 in Herm Edwards last year, when Mangini took over.
In Mangini's first season, the Jets went 10-6 and made the playoffs.
In Mangini's second season, the Jets started the season 1-7 with Pennington starting the first 8 games, losing several close games. Kellen Clemens started the last 8 games and went 3-5.
This past season the Jets were 9-7 after choking the last month of the season. While some want to blame the coach, Mangini wasn't running the ball, throwing the ball or playing defense.
I like the fact that Mangini took a 4-12 team and turned them around and when his team had a tough 2007 season, they came back with a 9-7 team that choked and should have made the playoffs this season.
Of all the coaches still available, I like him the best.
Three years experience as head coach who has already experienced good years and a very tough 4-12 season.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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I do find it odd that people think if a coach has "won something" with a team he is more likely to win here. I'm not exactly a coaching historian, but has any NFL coach won a championship, switched to a new team, and won another ring? It seems LESS likely rather than MORE likely to me... 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/GmuEd.gif) "One man's Bum is another man's Hobo" - Waterdawg
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Shanahan is on the top of my list but who knows if he's even going to get another call from Lerner (or even wants to coach next year).
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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j/c
If we hire Mangini we won't be trading with New England on draft day that's for sure.
In reading this thread I notice that Mangini wasn't too popular with the players...until this year when he 'changed' a bit. Perhaps he's learned a thing or two from his first stint as HC.
I'm trying to wrap my head around this Mangini thing. I haven't been a big fan of taking anyone that worked the defense under Bill Belleyache. IMO they get too much credit for being defensive smart.
![[Linked Image from members.cox.net]](http://members.cox.net/flyinc5/smallsigpics/frcburnout.gif) AL 29 76 14 R_K
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Shanahan is on the top of my list but who knows if he's even going to get another call from Lerner (or even wants to coach next year).
I wonder if he'd even have his heart in it.
I like Andy Reid, and he was apparently on his way out until the Eagles got their Lucky Dog. They're hot.
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Sorry Pit but I will never understand a non-football guy hiring a coach and then a general manager after. It's exactly what Randy did to us last time around and look where it got us. Just because Mangini would have chemistry with Kokinis doesn't mean we need to offer a job to a guy who probably isn't qualified to hold it.
I just don't get it. Randy is NOT a football guy. What is so difficult about him realizing this, actually hiring one, and letting HIM do the interviewing and the hiring?
We're... we're good?
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Sorry to butt in, but I think RL's getting desparate because Pioli screwed him around with this Ferentz crap--and I mean that literally.
Now he's dug himself a hole by centering on Mangini only,....
While we do need a good GM, I'm more interested in the right coach. There are good GM's around who are leading crappy teams (not for long,...). This is why BillyBob Cowher wants the control he wants,.....
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Sorry Pit but I will never understand a non-football guy hiring a coach and then a general manager after. It's exactly what Randy did to us last time around and look where it got us. Just because Mangini would have chemistry with Kokinis doesn't mean we need to offer a job to a guy who probably isn't qualified to hold it.
And why is it you think he's "not qualified"? And how can you compare this to others?
Did Phil hand pick RAC? Did RAC handpick Phil? I don't think so. To me, this is the exact opposite of what happenned before. Maybe you don't see it that way, and that's fine too.
He's hiring a "combination". As we saw with RAC and Phil, if everybody isn't on the same page, it spells disaster. So he has choices to make. An experienced GM with an innexperienced HC? Or a coach with some experience showing evidence he has what it takes to turn a team around and an innexperienced GM?
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I just don't get it. Randy is NOT a football guy. What is so difficult about him realizing this, actually hiring one, and letting HIM do the interviewing and the hiring?
It's really quite simple IMO.
He has interviewd both Pioli and Mangini extencively. I'm quite sure he has questioned BOTH as to who they want working with them. Who cares exactly who hires them?
If Mangini wants Kok, does it make any difference if Mangini hires him rather than Lerner? And if Pioli wants McDaniels, does it really matter who does the press confrence and hires him?
Bottom line is, Randy is going to interview Mangini's choice AND Pioli's choice. At that juncture, shouldn't the man paying the bills decide which combination he feels best about signing checks to? Because bottom line is that it's Lerner's reputation and money on the line here. Not Pioli's or Mangini's.
Maybe I'm the one that doesn't get it?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Exactly !....I will Never understand how an owner can spend that much $ to own a franchise and NOT delegate the Football Operations to individuals with the experience to succeed....It's like he wants his investment to fail  ....I know Mr. Lerner sincerely wants the Browns to succeed , however IMHO until he hires and than lets the Professionals do their job , we will continue to be one of the worst teams in the NFL on a consistent basis....
The Mammal
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Sorry Pit but I will never understand a non-football guy hiring a coach and then a general manager after. It's exactly what Randy did to us last time around and look where it got us.
Why is it people say that Lerner hired Savage and Crennel.. he DID hire Savage first and THEN they (savage included) hired RAC..
How does that get turned around...
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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The whole point is that Mangini has a whopping 3 years of coaching experience, was just fired, and yet you're handing him the keys to the team by letting him pick his GM candidate of choice. What on earth has he done to justify giving him such pull in these decisions? If he were a very experienced, successful coach like Cowher, I'd have no problem with it. If he were a very experienced, successful GM like Pioli, I'd have no problem with it.
As is, he's a guy that should probably be dropping back to a coordinator role for a few years before getting another shot at a job. Instead, not only is he getting a job right away, he's getting free reign to build those around him however he pleases. Something about that just plain stinks.
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Sorry Pit but I will never understand a non-football guy hiring a coach and then a general manager after. It's exactly what Randy did to us last time around and look where it got us.
Why is it people say that Lerner hired Savage and Crennel.. he DID hire Savage first and THEN they (savage included) hired RAC..
How does that get turned around...
Because Lerner already had in mind that he wanted RAC as the head coach. The only thing keeping him from hiring him was the fact that the Patriots were still in the playoffs. While Savage may have gotten the job beforehand, it's common knowledge that Romeo was already the candidate of choice and so Phil went along. Romeo wasn't his first choice.
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Sorry Pit but I will never understand a non-football guy hiring a coach and then a general manager after. It's exactly what Randy did to us last time around and look where it got us.
Why is it people say that Lerner hired Savage and Crennel.. he DID hire Savage first and THEN they (savage included) hired RAC..
How does that get turned around...
You are exactly right. Learner has stayed out of many of the decisions made for our team, and I think he has found it hasn't worked all that well and now I think along with his money, he's gonna stick the "other two cents in"
By the way....
Does anyone know if Mangini is "shopping his wares"? I haven't heard of any team interviewing him. Makes me think this thing is probably locked up, waiting on Kokinis. I'd be surprised if everything wasn't in place Sunday night.
Last edited by dawgbreath01; 01/05/09 09:02 PM.
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The whole point is that Mangini has a whopping 3 years of coaching experience, was just fired, and yet you're handing him the keys to the team by letting him pick his GM candidate of choice. What on earth has he done to justify giving him such pull in these decisions? If he were a very experienced, successful coach like Cowher, I'd have no problem with it. If he were a very experienced, successful GM like Pioli, I'd have no problem with it.
As is, he's a guy that should probably be dropping back to a coordinator role for a few years before getting another shot at a job. Instead, not only is he getting a job right away, he's getting free reign to build those around him however he pleases. Something about that just plain stinks.
I think we might be jumping the gun a little bit on this one. Lerner's not interviewed him yet and by all accounts won't until Sunday. So I'm not sure where you are seeing anyone handing anyone else the keys?
Whether or not we won't to accept it, it's Lerner's choice to make. We have an emotional interest in the decision but ultimately we're not writing the check and we have to trust in someone and at this point, Lerner is our only option for that trust. However you feel about it personally, it is what it is...
#GMSTRONG
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Because Lerner already had in mind that he wanted RAC as the head coach.
I have no doubt that discussion of RAC was heavy. At the time if you go back and remember, one of the guys that Lerner was getting tons of advice from was Bob Kraft and I'm sure Kraft was giving him the thumbs up on RAC.. so sure, RAC had to be in the forefront..
And why shouldn't he have been.. the DC of a team that had two SB Rings and was heading to the playoffs for what would end up being thier third.. He appeared to be qualified beyond all reason.
But to assume that he had RAC in mind and then went out and hired Savage and said, this is the coach your getting is way off base.
If we've learned anything about Savage is that he has an ego the size of Mississippi. if he didn't want RAC, all he had to do was say it and it would have been listened to carefully.. I'm convinced of it.
Then you have the timing thing that NOBODY wants to remember. Savage was hired,, THEN, they had that week where coachs of teams in the playoffs could be interviewed.. savage was ALREADY HIRED when the first interviewed RAC.. Lerner, Collins and Savage intervied him.
Now, how do you explain that one.
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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I'm going to ask you this one more time........What has Pioli ever built or turned around in this league?
He "maintained" a dynasty. Just like an auto mechanic. They don't build cars, they keep them serviced.
Mangii turned a team around to a great extent on his FIRST coaching gig.
I give Mangini the edge.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Does anyone know if Mangini is "shopping his wares"? I haven't heard of any team interviewing him. Makes me think this thing is probably locked up, waiting on Kokinis. I'd be surprised if everything wasn't in place Sunday night.
Hmm come to think of it, No, I haven't heard of anyone interviewing him. In fact, I thought he was supposed to interview with KC but I don't remember hearing that he actually did so. makes you wonder.
Maybe he has an offer in hand and decided that he's off the market.... and since the only confirmed interview he's had has been with Lerner... where does that lead you?
Interesting..... 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I think we might be jumping the gun a little bit on this one. Lerner's not interviewed him yet and by all accounts won't until Sunday. So I'm not sure where you are seeing anyone handing anyone else the keys?
Whether or not we won't to accept it, it's Lerner's choice to make. We have an emotional interest in the decision but ultimately we're not writing the check and we have to trust in someone and at this point, Lerner is our only option for that trust. However you feel about it personally, it is what it is...
Everything that's being said right now is that Mangini is already the guy (might even be hiring his staff already) and that this Kokinis guy came from nowhere to the top of our GM search because Mangini has a great relationship with him. To me, that says you're putting all your faith in Mangini. If he had a better track record, I could agree with it but honestly, I think Lerner is giving it one more go, wants to go with his gut this time around, and is just crossing his fingers hoping he becomes the next Belichick.
I don't trust in Randy. I trust that Randy doesn't know the first thing about football. To me, trust is given only with either previous success or without prior knowledge. I know that Randy has already royally screwed up with one regime. I don't trust him to do it again. That trust needs to be earned back. Anyone remember "In Savage I Trust"? Not again.
I don't trust. I hope. I hope that Randy isn't screwing this up but I certainly don't trust that he's doing the right thing until it actually starts to pay dividends. Really, the only way I'm going to "trust" at all right now is if he brings in Pioli. At least then there's a history of success I can trust.
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If we've learned anything about Savage is that he has an ego the size of Mississippi. if he didn't want RAC, all he had to do was say it and it would have been listened to carefully.. I'm convinced of it.
Then you have the timing thing that NOBODY wants to remember. Savage was hired,, THEN, they had that week where coachs of teams in the playoffs could be interviewed.. savage was ALREADY HIRED when the first interviewed RAC.. Lerner, Collins and Savage intervied him.
Now, how do you explain that one.
When you take a new job, do you come in on Day 1 and tell your boss how it's going to be from now on and how whatever he prefers doesn't matter? Neither does Phil. Simply put, he gave in to Lerner because he was new on the job. That's how you explain it and that is how it actually went down per multiple reports.
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I will agree that "trust" might be too strong a word. "Hope" as you put it fairs well but in the end, whether it's "trust" or "hope" it boils down to the same thing. We can't control it and we simply have to accept it, whatever "it" turns out to be.
#GMSTRONG
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I notice you still refuse to give "logical reasoning" as to WHY you feel Kok isn't qualified? Just because he isn't "the flavor of the month" in national headlines maybe? 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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The Lerner legacy has at least 530 million reasons to get it right.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I'm going to ask you this one more time........What has Pioli ever built or turned around in this league?
He "maintained" a dynasty. Just like an auto mechanic. They don't build cars, they keep them serviced.
Mangii turned a team around to a great extent on his FIRST coaching gig.
I give Mangini the edge.
He may have maintained a dynasty but that means that he knows how one works. Using your example, do you think a mechanic would know how to build a car because they work with them all the time and are intimately familiar with how they operate? I sure as heck think so.
Meanwhile, you say Mangini turned around the Jets. Do you think Romeo turned us around last year or do you think it was a fluke? Here's another take on it. Mangini inherited a last place schedule. He came in with that schedule (5th easiest in NFL) and finished 10-6, barely making the playoffs. Then, he was handed a 2nd place schedule (7th hardest in NFL) and finished 4-12. That gave him a 3rd place schedule this year (8th easiest in NFL) which he turned into a 9-7 record. See a pattern?
Pioli, meanwhile, controls a dynasty. I'll take that any day of the week versus a coach that left and had moderate success (despite a losing record)
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I notice you still refuse to give "logical reasoning" as to WHY you feel Kok isn't qualified? Just because he isn't "the flavor of the month" in national headlines maybe?
I need to give a reason why he isn't qualified? Nope, I'm not the one justifying a hire. When you're applying for a job, do they assume you qualified without proof or do you need to sell yourself? You need to give me a reason why he IS qualified to take the exact same powerful role Savage had. Until you can, why should I believe he is?
We're... we're good?
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He may have maintained a dynasty but that means that he knows how one works. Using your example, do you think a mechanic would know how to build a car because they work with them all the time and are intimately familiar with how they operate? I sure as heck think so.
Given the right circumstances, equipment and supporting staff, yes. But if that same guy wants to hire a rookie to run the production operation? I think his odds are drasticly reduced.
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Meanwhile, you say Mangini turned around the Jets. Do you think Romeo turned us around last year or do you think it was a fluke? Here's another take on it. Mangini inherited a last place schedule. He came in with that schedule (5th easiest in NFL) and finished 10-6, barely making the playoffs.
Yes, he did that in his "first year" not his third year.
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Then, he was handed a 2nd place schedule (7th hardest in NFL) and finished 4-12. That gave him a 3rd place schedule this year (8th easiest in NFL) which he turned into a 9-7 record. See a pattern?
Yes I do. Especialy when Favre threw eight int's. in December. Compare that to RAC's first four years. Compare that to Billicheck with the Browns. I see a HC FAR more cometative than RAC was. And he was strapped with a QB past his prime in a marketing ploy.
If it hadn't been for Favre's int's, Mangini would be IN the playoffs right now. Two out of three years as a rookie HC. See a pattern there?
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Pioli, meanwhile, controls a dynasty. I'll take that any day of the week versus a coach that left and had moderate success (despite a losing record)
You have your prefrance and I have mine. If Kok can bring in the talent and handle the cap, I'll take the builder over the maintenance man. Isn't that how NE succeeeded?
How would Pioli look without a Billicheck? You may want to consider that one for a moment. Would he look any better than RAC without Bill?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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You're the one making unsubstantiated claims. Good luck with that.......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Pioli, meanwhile, controls a dynasty. I'll take that any day of the week versus a coach that left and had moderate success (despite a losing record)
Pioli controls a dynasty? How's that? He's not the GM you know, and he is not Billichek. He's is his right hand man, but that is hardly controlling the dynasty.
Pioli is the player personnel director, no the GM. I think that fact is being lost in this dicussion. The control Pioli wants here, is something he does not have now, and never has.
I like the thought of Pioli, but I think you are painting a picture the isn't completely accurate. Neither Pioli or Kokinis (spelling) have been a GM before. Pioli is just more high profile because of the Ptriots success.
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Forget Pioli, he doesnt want Mangiless as his HC...hes off Randy's list. Randy wants someone who will play nice with Mangiless...so pretty much either give in to him or have Mangiless pick the gm...gee that'll work.  Randy so desperately wants the NE style, where the HC runs everything.....but..problem is...the only guy suited for that was Cowher. So instead of Randy being smart, and picking the right guy from the NE tree...hes making another stupid decision...as I see he didnt learn from last time. Mangini took the Jets nowhere, his first year he played a cupcake schedule, second year was terrible, and this season the Jets went as far as Brett carried them. And he was fired..funny...a team with Vets...a "win now" mentality...why fire your HC..if he was anything near what you wanted. And...funny...how teams are "beating down the door" to interview Mangiless! Mangini is RAC v1.2...WHICH IS WHY HE WILL GET THE JOB!! Ding, Ding, Ding, we have a winner!...the same guy who hired RAC is still here...he wants the same type of guy. I can only hope that somehow Kok falls through, we cant get someone Mangini is happy with and Randy get frustrated and goes with Pioli. That is this franchises only hope for winning in the next 5 years.
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Look .... sooner or later, Lerner is going to hire a "football guy" at some level to run the team.
There really is no one else to hire that top guy.
He can't delegate it without putting someone else in charge ...... which would require him making a football decision ... which some don't want him to do .....
I really don't get what people expect. It seems like Lerner is doing his due diligence. It seems like he has researched and poured over what makes a team succesful, and how he can bring that success to the Browns. Some say he's going with his gut .... but if everything he's seen says "hire a 2nd time head coach who had some success, and who stands a better chance of hiring more qualified assistants right off the bat" ...... well, that makes some degree of sense to me as well. Hopefully Mangini is the right guy. (assuming he gets the job)
Most head coaches fail at some point. Most get fired at some point. It is a rare head coach who has his career last as long as he wants .... is successful .... then moves on of his own accord. It seems to me that the rookie coach experiment we've run over the past decade hasn't worked. It seems that it doesn't work in most places .... unless there is a very good core of assistants already in place and ready to help the new head coach win. (like Tomlin in Pittsburgh)
We need a guy who can get this team organized ..... disciplined ..... and playing to their potential. We also need a guy who won' be intimidated by exceptional assistants, and who will be willing to let them do their jobs. Again .. hopefully Mangini will be that guy.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2009/01/fireworks_may_appease_fans_but.htmlFireworks may appease fans, but they don't promise NFL success for Browns by Terry Pluto/Plain Dealer Columnist Monday January 05, 2009, 6:07 PM Ten things about the Browns' search... 1. Unless something shocking happens, Eric Mangini will become the next coach of the Browns. They are convinced he is the best coach available, given that Bill Cowher, Mike Holmgren and some other big names are taking a year off. There is no guarantee Mike Shanahan will even want to coach when he returns from his vacation. He is tired and has about $20 million coming in from his contract over the next few years. 2. Losing the press conference when new coaches and general managers are announced doesn't always mean the team loses on the field. A year ago, Atlanta named former Browns and New England scout Thomas Dimitroff as general manager. The new coach was career assistant Mike Smith. Talk about a yawner. Then they drafted Matt Ryan and put together a team that went from 4-12 to the playoffs. 3. Dimitroff is the son of former Browns scout Tom Dimitroff. He also is a branch from the Bill Belichick tree, as he was the No. 2 personnel man behind Scott Pioli with the Patriots before Atlanta. He used some of the New England way to revamp the Falcons' front office, where team president Rich McKay was moved from football operations to handling more of the business side. 4. Suppose the Browns hire George Kokinis as general manager as he has a good working relationship with Mangini. Tampa did something like that when Jon Gruden was hired away from Oakland, and Gruden brought along Bruce Allen as GM. Yes, Allen had the title of GM in Oakland, but owner Al Davis has a major say over everything. Kokinis is Baltimore's pro player personnel director, meaning he primarily scouts the pros for free agents. Before taking that job, he did some college scouting. 5. If the Browns hire Kokinis, they will need a director of college scouting. No one had that title, as former GM Phil Savage did most of it. His assistant, T.J. McCreight, worked with Kokinis in Baltimore and he could move up to that spot. But the Browns must resolve who will run the college draft, because that was Savage's domain. 6. It's easy to say Savage came from Baltimore, and that didn't work out. So Kokinis won't, either. Or to say that no one from Belichick is doing well, forgetting Dimitroff, who works quietly and out of the public eye in Atlanta. Or to say that if Mangini were any good, why did New York fire him? Tony Dungy was fired in Tampa because they wanted a bigger name in Gruden. The Jets thought they could dump Mangini and get Cowher. 7. Who picks the players for the Steelers? Kevin Colbert, hardly a widely known name. In Pittsburgh, fans know the head coach and coordinators. In Philadelphia, Tom Heckert is the GM, but coach Andy Reid has a strong say about the roster. The key is the front office leadership meshing with the coaching staff to put a roster together. Maybe Mangini/Kokinis can do that, as Smith/Dimitroff did in Atlanta. It's not a return to Romeo Crennel/Savage, who were rookies in their new jobs. 8. Mangini has three years of experience, two winning seasons. Who was the last Browns coach to have two winning seasons in three years? How about Marty Schottenheimer (winning seasons from 1986-88). Yes, it has been more than 20 years. 9. The Browns do have something to offer a new coach. They are about $9 million under the salary cap and it will be about $15 million when "year end adjustments" are made next month. That puts them in the middle of the pack. They have picks in the first, second, fourth and sixth rounds. They had only one Pro Bowl player before Savage arrived in 2005, and have had eight in the last two years. Some guys have underachieved. But players such as Joshua Cribbs, Kellen Winslow, Joe Thomas and even Braylon Edwards do have talent. 10. The Browns also have two quarterbacks in Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn, both of whom could start for some teams. Quarterbacks are the key to turning teams around. Assuming he's the coach, Mangini will need to commit to one soon and build an offense around him. The other could be used for a trade or depth. But they need clarity with the QBs.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/01/cleveland_browns_must_wait_unt.htmlThe Browns will have to wait until Sunday to interview Baltimore director of pro personnel George Kokinis for their vacant general manager job. The question now is whether owner Randy Lerner will hire his preferred coach, Eric Mangini, before then, as indications grew stronger on Monday that a deal with Mangini was imminent. The Browns have had discussions with Mangini beyond their formal interview last Tuesday, according to a source close to the Browns' search. Those talks have continued with the understanding that Lerner would complete his search process before closing a deal. The process is on hold, the source indicated. One of the holdups could be the delay in interviewing Kokinis. The Browns were granted permission by Baltimore to interview Kokinis under the following restrictions: • The earliest they could talk to him is Sunday. The Ravens have a divisional round playoff game Saturday at Nashville, Tenn., against the Titans. Baltimore has set aside the following day for interviews for prospective candidates for other jobs. Besides Kokinis, defensive coordinator Rex Ryan has received permission from some clubs to interview for head coach. • The only way Kokinis could leave the Ravens is if the Browns gave him full authority over personnel and the draft -- the same responsibilities Phil Savage enjoyed in four years as Browns general manager. Per NFL rule, every team has to designate one person contractually as the No. 1 football authority of the club. Kokinis has never had anything close to final say in 18 years as a scout and personnel executive. • If the Browns decide to offer Kokinis the general manager job, Kokinis would not be able to leave the Ravens until they are out of the playoffs. The Ravens could lift this restriction at their discretion, but it's doubtful they would. So, it's conceivable that Kokinis could not become available to the Browns until Feb. 2 -- the day after the Super Bowl, if the Ravens make it that far. The restrictions are common in these situations and not unique to the division rivalry between the Browns and Ravens. In fact, the Ravens were free to deny permission altogether, but did not. The only other candidates for Browns GM interviewed by Lerner were Scott Pioli, Patriots vice president of player personnel, and T.J. McCreight, Browns director of player personnel. Pioli reportedly interviewed with the Kansas City Chiefs for their GM job on Monday. Meanwhile, sources have said that Lerner is anxious to hire his coach, widely believed to be Mangini. No other NFL team with a head coach vacancy has been linked to Mangini. Lerner has interviewed three other candidates for head coach, besides Mangini -- Giants defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo, Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels and Browns defensive coordinator Mel Tucker. Lerner had no interviews on Monday, a club spokesman said.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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When you take a new job, do you come in on Day 1 and tell your boss how it's going to be from now on and how whatever he prefers doesn't matter?
YES..., I do... well, kinda. I don't tell him what he want's doesn't matter. I don't see the need to insult my new Boss, so I'd handle it with a little diplomacy.
But in the end, if MY SUCCESS hinges on who gets hired in as the HC,, You damn skippy I'm voicing my opinion..,, VERY LOUDLY!
Another thing I can see probably happened is this.. In the interview with Savage, I have NO DOUBT the subject of HC's came up.., Again, I have no doubt that RAC was brought up as one choice..
I also have NO DOUBT that other candidates were brought up as well. And as Lerner, Collins and Savage sat down, they most likely discussed the Merits of each candidate.
What we will never know is what was said... we will NEVER know what was said..
But in the end, RAC was hired.. and on paper for the world to see, it could NOT have been considered a bad hire.
Maybe Phil wanted someone else.. Maybe he wanted Ferentz or Saban or whoever... But even if he did, it would have been hard not to look strongly at RAC.. He had the credentials..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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1st String
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Forget Pioli, he doesnt want Mangiless as his HC...hes off Randy's list. Randy wants someone who will play nice with Mangiless...so pretty much either give in to him or have Mangiless pick the gm...gee that'll work.
Randy so desperately wants the NE style, where the HC runs everything.....but..problem is...the only guy suited for that was Cowher.
So instead of Randy being smart, and picking the right guy from the NE tree...hes making another stupid decision...as I see he didnt learn from last time.
Mangini took the Jets nowhere, his first year he played a cupcake schedule, second year was terrible, and this season the Jets went as far as Brett carried them. And he was fired..funny...a team with Vets...a "win now" mentality...why fire your HC..if he was anything near what you wanted.
And...funny...how teams are "beating down the door" to interview Mangiless!
Mangini is RAC v1.2...WHICH IS WHY HE WILL GET THE JOB!! Ding, Ding, Ding, we have a winner!...the same guy who hired RAC is still here...he wants the same type of guy.
I can only hope that somehow Kok falls through, we cant get someone Mangini is happy with and Randy get frustrated and goes with Pioli. That is this franchises only hope for winning in the next 5 years.
Ok Mr. Wizard....
Now that you've slammed Mr. Learner... with all your tremendous insight... why don't you just tell all of us who YOU would choose as head coach. (no.. you're not getting off the hook by letting Pioli do your choosing for you.)
Ball's in your court.
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Legend
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Mangini is RAC v1.2...WHICH IS WHY HE WILL GET THE JOB!! Ding, Ding, Ding, we have a winner!...
Not according to those ramblings of absurdity we don't!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Mangini is RAC v1.2...WHICH IS WHY HE WILL GET THE JOB!! Ding, Ding, Ding, we have a winner!...
Not according to those ramblings of absurdity we don't!
I don't think Mangini is RAC 1.2 when it comes to handling the players.
I do have concerns about gameplans and schemes, though, as well as in-game management.
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Two factors were key, both of which sprung from the four-year experience with GM Phil Savage and coach Romeo Crennel.
That pair wound up not seeing eye to eye, and differences between them affected the team's ability to win, especially last season.
Lerner did not want a repeat.
So he insisted that the two people whom he hired be able to work together, which means they had to know each other and get along.
He also saw that Crennel hired two coordinators who eventually were replaced. A rookie coach, his research showed, was more likely to make mistakes with his key hires than one who had been through the battles.
That led him to conclude that the Browns of today need a coach with head coaching experience
Hmmm it appears Jr. has learned something...
He liked Mangini's plans for everything from putting in a disciplinary structure (something the Browns think was missing with Crennel) to how to run training camp to how to game-plan for a specific opponent.
Thats also very telling..perhaps he asked about how to prepare against our AFCN rivals..
Concerns come mainly from his personality rather than his football IQ. He was said to be very difficult to work for, especially in his first season.
Mangini also was criticized for some of the same on-field decisions that Crennel heard criticism. Field goals vs. touchdowns. Punting vs. kicking a field goal. Some of those calls, especially in a late-season loss to the Seahawks, did not sit well with Jets fans and media.
The Browns think that he will learn from those mistakes (if they were mistakes) and grow given a second chance.
Not sure if they weren't mistakes ,what they actually were..or people just didn't execute well..
He wants a coach with experience working with a front office guy whom he can trust and work together with.
No matter who was hired first, coach or GM, Lerner was going to ask the same question: Can you work with (insert name here)? If he found two people who could work together, his job was then to create an environment where the two could succeed.
Well yes that is all the much more important..we see what happens when one person has his own agenda..
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I don't think Mangini is RAC 1.2 when it comes to handling the players.
Not even in the same ball park from every account I've been reading. Even from his players.
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I do have concerns about gameplans and schemes, though, as well as in-game management.
You see, I don't "totaly" disagree with that. I mean the guy has only been a HC for three years. So like with any young HC, there will probably be a few growing pains. So yes, I'd expect a few gaffs along the way.
But let's look at RAC. Many of these were issues with RAC too. Problem being, we saw no improvement in these departments. There seemed to be no progress. He had one out of four winning seasons.With Mangini? He has seemed to progress. He was maturing and had two out of three winning seasons.
I guess the bottom line to all of this is......coaches make mistakes on occasion. Younger one's moreso than more experienced one's simply due to the experience factor. Yet this guy can overcome it. He can win WITH his mistakes. As he matures, I'd say he can win even more as his mistakes decline.
No matter who coaches a team, they are all human. Even Cowher.
I want a guy who can thrive in the face of adversity and I think Mangini is that kind of guy....
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Hmmm it appears Jr. has learned something...
Actually, that part of the article tells me the exact opposite. It tells me that Lerner is completely reactionary and doesn't have a clue what he's doing. With every hire, he's fighting last year's problem.
We had Butch Davis, a college coach who was given complete control. Unfortunately, Butch went mad with his power, his ego blew out of control, and he failed.
So, Lerner reacted to the previus problem went with something completely different. He went with the hot assistant and a hot GM candidate, both unproven but with divided power. Unfortunately, they didn't work together and didn't have the chops for it, so they failed.
Now, here we go again. This time, Lerner is reacting the previous problem yet again. Now, he's bringing in a head coach who has a bit of experience and letting him pick his own people, including an inexperienced GM candidate so they work on the same page. Wonder what the "unforseen" circumstance will be this time?
The point is, Lerner doesn't know how to build a successful NFL organization. All he knows is what not to do based on his past failures. The thing he needs to realize is that there is no magic formula for NFL success. Inexperienced, experienced, college, whatever... all can succeed if you get the RIGHT people.
I once had hope that Randy would take his time, perform an incredibly extensive search and hire someone at GM who could find those "right people", then let HIM do it. Instead, he conducted all the interviews himself, fell in love with a coaching candidate no one else expressed interest in, turned away all other options, and has decided to let him choose whoever he wants so that chemistry is there.
To have a non-football guy make football decisions like that is just stupid. I sure hope it works but if Randy's track record is any indication, I'm not counting on it.
We're... we're good?
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1) Are you saying you expect an owner to be able to predict the future? So we should hire Miss Cleo?
2) What do they call that when you make a mistake, then the next time you do something, you try to do something different so you don't make the same mistake? What's the word for that? It's slipping my mind.
3) You said that you wished Lerner would do an extensive search, pick a GM, and let the GM do the rest. But, who's to say that he'd pick the right GM, even after that extensive search? What unforeseen events would come out of that?
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Interviews......continued
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