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Eric Mangini's end with the Jets began with Brett Favre's arrival
BY RICH CIMINI
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER
On the surface, Eric Mangini's downfall began five weeks ago, when the Jets started a late-season meltdown with an ugly loss to the Broncos. In reality, it started much earlier, with the blockbuster trade for Brett Favre in August.
Although he publicly supported the acquisition of the future Hall of Fame quarterback, Mangini wasn't the driving force behind the acquisition, according to two people familiar with the team's thinking. Even though he expressed concerns at the time, the people said, Mangini welcomed Favre, adjusted the entire offense and tried to make it work.
In the end, Favre contributed to the late-season slide with nine interceptions and only two touchdown passes in the final five games. That doomed Mangini, but the third-year coach also hurt himself with questionable decisions and coaching practices throughout the season, according to several players who spoke to the Daily News on the condition of anonymity.
Ironically, Mangini began the season as Mr. Popularity, dramatically reducing the practice load. That "made it easier to come to the building every day and be motivated to work," Chris Baker said. But, along the way, other issues developed for Mangini, who had lost the taskmaster reputation that he developed in his first two seasons.
The issues:
•The Favre Factor: Mangini handled Favre with kid gloves, rarely criticizing him in front of the team. A TV report over the weekend said Mangini embarrassed Favre in meetings, but "that report was full of (garbage)," one player said. "He never called him out. If anything, he yelled at the receivers for not breaking up the passes. He'd just throw 'em up, and there was no accountability."
Favre led the NFL with 22 interceptions.
The Jets beefed up their offensive line and began the season hell-bent on becoming a run-oriented team, but they ditched the plan when Favre arrived and, according to players, they never found a comfort level.
• No emotion: One veteran player said he glanced at the Dolphins' sideline during Sunday's game and saw coach Tony Sparano making animated gestures, interacting with his players after good and bad plays. The Jets player said he wondered why Mangini didn't act that way.
"It's okay to show emotion," said the player, describing Mangini's lack of emotion as his greatest flaw. "Football isn't all about X's and O's. There's a human element involved. We're not all robots. Sometimes a coach needs to show some passion. I think Eric has that in him, but he never showed it
Mangini's stoic sideline demeanor became a source of frustration for disgruntled fans who demanded fire from their head coach. The players noticed it, too. One player said he tried too hard to be like Patriots coach Bill Belichick, his mentor, and he needed to act more like himself.
Owner Woody Johnson sidestepped a question Monday about Mangini's laid-back demeanor, but it's known that Johnson wasn't happy with the lack of fire among the players in the fourth quarter of Sunday's loss. He evidently felt it was a reflection of the coach.
• Too hands-on:
Mangini didn't call the offensive or defensive plays, but he was heavily involved in all aspects of the operation.
"The biggest thing I heard from upstairs (the front office) was that he didn't trust anyone," one player said. "He wouldn't let his coaches coach. He had his hand in everything."
Former Jets assistants have complained over the years that Mangini, known for his rigid rules and cloak-and-dagger paranoia, created a difficult working environment.
•Not enough adjustments:
In recent weeks, the Jets were outsmarted by inferior teams that exploited their weaknesses. Mangini wasn't a good problem solver, as the same issues plagued the team week after week. The defense, in particular, was upset with the game plans and how certain players were deployed.
The low point came in the next-to-last game, when the Jets failed to record a sack against a Seattle offensive line that consisted of five former backups.
"The scheme was too vanilla against Seattle," one player said. "I think the coaches thought we were going to win just by showing up."
Several questionable in-game decisions also loomed large for Mangini. There was the fourth-and-2 punt from the 49ers' 38, and there were decisions that backfired in Seattle, including a fourth-and-1 field goal from the Seahawks' 2 on the opening drive. Those two decisions, players said, sent a bad message to the team, showing a lack of confidence in the players.
Johnson, in his news conference Monday, refused to delve into any specifics regarding Mangini's coaching.
"He's done some amazing things," Johnson said. "Nobody's worked harder. He knows his X's and his O's. He's a good teacher, but Mike (Tannenbaum) and I felt it was time to make a change."
Several players took their share of the blame for the demise. After back-to-back road wins against the Patriots and Titans, which made them 8-3, complacency set in, according to one player.
"Guys walked off the field in Tennessee with their chests out, and they took that into the Denver game," the player said. "We had too many guys that didn't know how to handle success."
Now we all know about what things are percieved..and truth..so I'm printing things that give us inisight on perspective people who are heavily being considered, just as posters put up articles on Pioli..which BTW is still a ongoing situation..myself..I'm taking all this in..and I suggest you do too..don't jump to conclusions.just take it as is...because there are comments that say the opposite about Mangini..there are questions in my mind about him..since NY is not a team I follow..I really never paid much attention to him.. 
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 01/07/09 11:34 AM.
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That article really puts a bad spin on Mangini. Heck, I could see us freaking out punting on 4th & 2 on the 38 of a bad team in a must win and a 4th and 1 deep in the redzone.
And the lack of in-game adjustments really worries me. That seemed to be the downfall of rac here.
We'll see...
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Anyone else think a lot of that sounds exactly like another ex-Patriots defensive coordinator?
We're... we're good?
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Quote:
Anyone else think a lot of that sounds exactly like another ex-Patriots defensive coordinator?
it also sounds like Belicheck....so, what's your point?
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Quote:
it also sounds like Belicheck....so, what's your point?
Belichick eventually changed after 4 years as an assistant after getting fired. If you're comparing this article to Belichick, this sounds like the Cleveland Belichick before that change took place. Nothing says that Mangini will make that change as well, let alone 0 years after being fired. So, what's YOUR point?
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Hopefully he could take a note from Bellyache, and learn from his mistakes.
I still am of the opinion that he would be an improvement over Romeo.
Don't know that Mangini is the answer, but still think it is possible to learn from mistakes made in the past.
My hope is that Learner can get it right and get someone that can right this ship and get us to the place we need and deserve to be as Cleveland Browns fans.
I like every other fan am sick and tired of being sick and tired of the Stooler fans constantly ragging on our team and organization.
I am old enough to remember when we kicked the arses EVERY YEAR.
I want more than anything to return to those days.
GO BROWNS!!!
Hope springs eternal in the heart of a true Browns fan. GO BROWNS!!!!!
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Tacker...good read, thanks!
You know that Mangini will read this and separate the bs from the constructive criticism and hopefully learn from it. It sounds like a good critique and since Mangini is not around the players to ask them to critique his performance, this might be the next best way, via the media.
Reading it, it does sound a lot like how Belichick was like early in his head coaching career, especially the parts about Mangini being too hands on and not trusting his assistants. Until a head coach feels comfortable with his assistant coaches, I see nothing wrong with overlooking what the assistant coaches are doing.
Honestly, I don't see anything in the article that is a problem...it's good critique of Mangini...mac
Last edited by mac; 01/07/09 12:01 PM.
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I put this in another thread but I think it fits better here.
j/c
Something that could support Kokinis.
Savage's strength coming in was the draft and college personnel. It was not acquiring free agents or making trades...which can explain why our free agent acquisitions and trades have been largely hit or miss.
Kokinis has experience with trades and free agent acquisitions as that's his specialty.
Now, the college scouting system in place is the same as the one the Ravens run. That wouldn't change under Kokinis and would provide *gasp* continuity in this front office...or at least some semblance of it.
Could it be that our drafts haven't been as poor as they seem, and it's really been our free agent classes that have been so "hailed?"
Cuz I DO think there's some legit talent on this team...how much remains to be seen...I don't think the pieces have been used adequately, or the pieces exactly fit right. (i.e. Jamal Lewis running behind a line that would best fit a runningback in the zone-running scat back mode, Stallworth in a downfield offense over an offense where the ball gets in his hands and he runs with it after the catch, etc.)
I really don't know...most of Savage's moves have made sense to me in the past but they don't now...sometimes I thought he didn't do enough (receiver, corner, etc) and that hurt us.
Maybe the real difference between Savage and Kokinis is that Kokinis has been brought up with experience piecing a team together, while Savage's upbringing was more focused on scouting players and giving grades on players. In other words, he was prone to making mistakes by making decisions that weren't best for piecing together a team.
Why is he prone to those mistakes? Maybe because he wasn't in on all those meetings with Ozzie and the rest of the staff on piecing together a team concept...despite his title previous to Browns GM (perhaps Ozzie gave him permission to scout often and not sit in on those FA meetings because Savage was busy scouting college players).
Long story short: Kokinis would let the scouts (who he likely has ties to because Savage brought a lot of them from Baltimore) bring him the scouting reports and use that information on draft day along with Mangini. In other words, perhaps his drafts would not be total disasters along the lines of Butch Davis because he has enough knowledge of the Ozzie school of drafting AND the Ozzie school of free agents/players already in the league?
I'm just thinking out loud here trying to sell myself on this Kokinis thing. It's a harder sell to me than Mangini.
EDIT: and a BIG point I would like to make...we all talk about depth in a 53 man roster. Given the high amount of turnover on EVERY team EVERY year...is FA acquisition more important than the draft? By FA acquisition, I'm not talking "making a Redskins-style splash every year", but in fact making those "back nine" signings that float around the league from team to team? (think a guy like Nick Eason fitting right in in Pittsburgh yet we've jettisoned him, or a guy like Hank Poteat floating around the league in various backup roles because they fit a certain system) Really, it's probably equal. But while you always look for a draft class to find gems...maybe the big key to a draft his having those guys who can fill in those key roles for a couple seasons because they fit a system but won't pan out to be truly special? Perhaps Savage was obsessed with hitting every one of his picks that he lost the sight that fielding a good TEAM goes beyond trying to hit on every draft pick? (hence why it's so important to acquire many draft picks...not only to find hits but to find warm bodies who can fill key roles)
I really don't know...I'm trying to speculate as best I can.
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The one big thing that strikes me kind of odd is, with over eight teams needing new HC's, NONE that I know of, has set up interviews with Mangini.  Yet, almost everyone is try to set up an interview with, McDainials, Ryan, plus a couple of more coaches. The question lingers in my head, do all the other 31 owners know something that Lerner doesn't, or is it that he doesn't want to know, see or hear about.  Mangini sounds like a younger version of RAC in many ways, what kind of assistants will he be able to bring here, if that is the real situation with him ?  I sure hope Randy gets it right this time around. I hope he consults with someone like Arcossi or somebody with real inside knowledge about this. He may already have decided on Mangini and will probably overpay him too ! Are we going from the frying pan into the fire, I sure hope not. 
Last edited by OldDawg42; 01/07/09 12:09 PM.
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Quote:
Belichick eventually changed after 4 years as an assistant after getting fired. If you're comparing this article to Belichick, this sounds like the Cleveland Belichick before that change took place. Nothing says that Mangini will make that change as well, let alone 0 years after being fired. So, what's YOUR point?
Spectre, this is not to pick on you but I read post after post and it seems that some people really want some kind of guarantee that the next guy is going succeed.. and that guarantee doesn't exist....
Our choices right now of the names being bantered about, in a nutshell, are a college coach, a couple of successful coordinators, a guy that was a successful coordinator and has 3 years of HC experience, or (if you include Marty) an aging guy who has considerable success as a HC but who knows how much time he will want to coach....
I, like most of you, can make an argument for or against each and every one of those... likewise, a college coach, a coordinator, a recycled HC.. all could succeed or all could fail for reasons which we may never understand...
In the end, I will support whatever Randy decides to do.
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Mangini reminds me a lot more of Belichick than Romeo. Mangini has been critisized for being too harsh, cold, and untrusting. He is seen as an x's and o's guy. Romeo was critisized for being too soft, kind, trusting, and loyal. They sound pretty different to me.
I would be happy with either Mangini or McDaniels.
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A different slant to be sure.
A 4th and 1 FG on the opening drive is a decision that the vast majority of coaches,at any level,would have made.
Punting on 4th and 2,can't really say without complete knowledge of the situation,but it doesn't sound a bad decision.
No sacks against Seattle sounds more like a knock against the players than the coach.
The only true negative I got from the article would be his micro-managing.But,if you want a Belicheck disciple,you're probably going to get that.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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If you're going to throw the word "recycled" out there to describe Mangini you might as well call him successful as well.
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The one big thing that strikes me kind of odd is, with over eight teams needing new HC's, NONE that I know of, has set up interviews with Mangini.
Yet, almost everyone is try to set up an interview with, McDainials, Ryan, plus a couple of more coaches. The question lingers in my head, do all the other 31 owners know something that Lerner doesn't, or is it that he doesn't want to know, see or hear about.
OldDawg42...you know, your not the only olddawg on the board?...lol...  ...welcome.
There is this perception being promoted by someone, an article yesterday, about the possibility that Mangini is being blackballed by some teams.
But, it sounds like Randy Lerner is not playing that game and regardless of what some teams may do, Lerner is going to do what is best for the Browns.
Honestly, until the NFL announces it was Mangini who turned Belichick in, all we have is "speculation".
Do the Browns say no to a young, experienced HC who did a decent job with the Jets, based on the speculation of unnamed sources within the NFL?
If the Browns can improve and win, no one in Cleveland is going to give a darn about something Mangini may or may not have done a few years ago.
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• No emotion: One veteran player said he glanced at the Dolphins' sideline during Sunday's game and saw coach Tony Sparano making animated gestures, interacting with his players after good and bad plays. The Jets player said he wondered why Mangini didn't act that way.
"It's okay to show emotion," said the player, describing Mangini's lack of emotion as his greatest flaw. "Football isn't all about X's and O's. There's a human element involved. We're not all robots. Sometimes a coach needs to show some passion. I think Eric has that in him, but he never showed it
Mangini's stoic sideline demeanor became a source of frustration for disgruntled fans who demanded fire from their head coach. The players noticed it, too. One player said he tried too hard to be like Patriots coach Bill Belichick, his mentor, and he needed to act more like himself.
Owner Woody Johnson sidestepped a question Monday about Mangini's laid-back demeanor, but it's known that Johnson wasn't happy with the lack of fire among the players in the fourth quarter of Sunday's loss. He evidently felt it was a reflection of the coach.
It's interesting to hear a veteran player state they wanted more emotion out of their coach. This has been brought up time and time again about RAC not having any emotion on the sideline and debated by many if it matters or not. I don't care either way, as long as the players respond to the coach and play hard for him. Just found the above comments interesting.
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I'm not asking for a guarantee, I realize there is no such thing. I just don't like fluff talk about a guy just because he's going to get a job here. Everything that happens should be scrutinized.
To that end, I say that the article above illustrates several qualities we were hoping to replace by firing RAC that we'll be bringing right back in - lack of fire, poor in game decision making, poor adjustments, soft defense etc. The difference is that Mangini has that "luster" of a guy who hasn't failed yet in Cleveland, and most are willing to say that he'll learn from his experience like Belichick did and become a stellar head coach. It's possible, but it's also possible that he doesn't and we're stuck with much of the same.
I ask this question... we just fired RAC for many of those same character flaws. Anyone think that if RAC got another head coaching job, that he would suddenly improve on all his failures and become a genius the way Belichick did? I don't. Why then, do we assume that it will happen with Mangini? I appreciate the optimism, but there's really no reason to believe it will happen other than hope.
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I am not the biggest Mangini fan. But, I think he could do a solid job here and don't see why people are so quick to bash a guy who did a solid coaching job for the Jets. Nothing says Mangini will make the necessary changes 0 years after being fired, but nothing says that he will make them 4 or 8 or 10 years after being fired either. People can learn from their mistakes and those that do are the ones that are successful. It is Randy's job to make sure that he is actively learning and re-evaluating from his past mistakes. But, let's go through the points of the article. Quote:
•The Favre Factor: Mangini handled Favre with kid gloves, rarely criticizing him in front of the team. Favre led the NFL with 22 interceptions.
This is the one thing that is disconcerting (if true because the opposite has been reported as well). Belicheck proved during his time in Cleveland that he wouldn't take BS from anyone even if they were the beloved hometown star (Kosar).
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• No emotion
That was Belicheck in NYG, Cleveland, NE, NYJ, and NE again. He didn't change this aspect of his coaching.
Personally, I don't think it is a bad quality for the HC. I don't mind them being stoic, they can always have a high-energy assistant to get in people's faces that need it. I want my HC making the right decisions whether or not he's yelling.
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• Too hands-on:
Mangini didn't call the offensive or defensive plays, but he was heavily involved in all aspects of the operation.
Again, sounds just like Belicheck no matter where he was. He lets his coordinators and assistants get their input and call the plays, but he wants to be involved and make sure that he knows what is going on. It is micro-managing, but there are certain coaches that works well.
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Former Jets assistants have complained over the years that Mangini, known for his rigid rules and cloak-and-dagger paranoia, created a difficult working environment.
Here is one that sounds more like Belicheck in Cleveland than in NE. From reports, he has a better working environment in NE. But, he is still known for rigid rules and I would say the spygate scandal proved he is still a bit paranoid.
And rigid rules seem to be what this team needs.
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•Not enough adjustments:
In recent weeks, the Jets were outsmarted by inferior teams that exploited their weaknesses. Mangini wasn't a good problem solver, as the same issues plagued the team week after week. The defense, in particular, was upset with the game plans and how certain players were deployed.
The only evidence they showed to support this is that they didn't record a sack against Seattle? I would have to dig deeper to say anything useful on this item.
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Several questionable in-game decisions also loomed large for Mangini. There was the fourth-and-2 punt from the 49ers' 38.... including a fourth-and-1 field goal from the Seahawks' 2 on the opening drive.
The opening drive shouldn't be an issue. You want to make sure you get points and I understand why the team might kick. The 4th and 2 punt was a bad decision, but one that he can look back on and figure out what he would do again in that situation.
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"He's done some amazing things," Johnson said. "Nobody's worked harder. He knows his X's and his O's. He's a good teacher, but Mike (Tannenbaum) and I felt it was time to make a change."
A good teacher who knows his stuff. Doesn't sound too bad to me.
Last edited by no_logo_required; 01/07/09 12:42 PM.
#gmstrong
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Do the Browns say no to a young, experienced HC who did a decent job with the Jets, based on the speculation of unnamed sources within the NFL?
If the Browns can improve and win, no one in Cleveland is going to give a darn about something Mangini may or may not have done a few years ago.
Horray, finally someone says it like it is.
We as Browns fans will not give two hoots in hell if whoever it is that comes in can make this team a winner.
If we get the Devil as our coach and he comes in and makes this team a consistant winner noone will really care.
WE JUST WANT A WINNING TEAM.
The hope is that Randy gets it right, no matter who is the coach.
GO BROWNS!!!!
Hope springs eternal in the heart of a true Browns fan. GO BROWNS!!!!!
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It is kind of interesting to read an article about him that isn't fluff. I'm not really leaning any way on Mangini but I haven't read that many negative articles on him. Honestly some of those things do worry me a little.
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Quote:
To that end, I say that the article above illustrates several qualities we were hoping to replace by firing RAC that we'll be bringing right back in - lack of fire, poor in game decision making, poor adjustments, soft defense etc.
Lack of fire... the article states about a lack of outward emotion, then a couple paragraphs later calls him "laid back".. I contend that the two are not even close to the same thing... Bill Belichick is a prime example of a guy who shows little emotion on the sidelines but would anybody in their right mind call him "laid back"? Lack of outward emotion and lack of fire are two COMPLETELY different things.. From what I've seen of Mangini, he might not be outwardly expressive but he is very intense.. I see no lack of fire.
Poor in game decision making? That's debateable. The 4th and 1 FG and the 4th and 2 punt were both on the opening drives of games they should have won... I'm sure when he kicked the 4th and 1 FG from the 2 that he was not anticipating that Favre would throw for 182 yards, 0 TDs and 2 INTs the rest of the day and they would score no more points. Poor adjustments.. from what did you extrapolate this? Because one guy said the scheme against Seattle was too vanilla? or is that the basis for your soft defenses comment?
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Anyone think that if RAC got another head coaching job, that he would suddenly improve on all his failures and become a genius the way Belichick did? I don't. Why then, do we assume that it will happen with Mangini? I appreciate the optimism, but there's really no reason to believe it will happen other than hope.
Hope.. yes, it's hope. Hope is what people have that a college coach could make the transition.. or that a qualified OC/DC could be an equally good HC.. or that a coach with some experience could change.. or that a QB who is inaccurate and makes bad decisions could improve... in the end, all we have is hope.
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The one big thing that strikes me kind of odd is, with over eight teams needing new HC's, NONE that I know of, has set up interviews with Mangini.
OR
And I"m just throwing this out there for you all to think about.. Did Lerner say to Mangini,, look, I think you are a fine young coach and I have no doubt you will be a HC again some day.. but in the mean time, if you don't get an offer to be a HC,, you got the job as DC for the Browns locked up!
LOL Did I just throw a monkey wrench in there for ya 
But what eight teams are you thinking of.... right now it's Detroit, Cleveland, Denver and NY Jets for sure.. was someone else fired that I didn't hear about yet.. I know that there was talk of Herm Edwards being canned soon, that would be 5 teams.. Is there someone else that got fired and I didn't hear about it.
More than 8 teams? I don't see that... as of now,, 4 teams.
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And I"m just throwing this out there for you all to think about.. Did Lerner say to Mangini,, look, I think you are a fine young coach and I have no doubt you will be a HC again some day.. but in the mean time, if you don't get an offer to be a HC,, you got the job as DC for the Browns locked up!
Where did you come up with that? Are you trying to say what the obvious is? That Lerner hasn't promised him the HC job? This thing isn't set..there are interviews..and I'm going to say right now , Heckert should be considered (GM)as heavily as anyone else.
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I put this in another thread but I think it fits better here.
Perhaps Savage was obsessed with hitting every one of his picks that he lost the sight that fielding a good TEAM goes beyond trying to hit on every draft pick? (hence why it's so important to acquire many draft picks...not only to find hits but to find warm bodies who can fill key roles.
I put this in another thread, too...
Great post...
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Where did you come up with that
LOL Just an alternative theory,, not one that I believe is true, but it could be!
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Are you trying to say what the obvious is?
Again, it's just another possibility.. and one that I think is unlikely.. but all these theories that people are tossing out there, I thought, what the heck,, Let's really go out on a limb.. 
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That Lerner hasn't promised him the HC job?
Are you having fun at my expense AD? 
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This thing isn't set..there are interviews..and I'm going to say right now , Heckert should be considered (GM)as heavily as anyone else.
I agree 100%...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Legend
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Legend
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I think Lerner is out looking for head coaches and isn't trying to line up coordinators for his yet to be named head coach.. That's my theory.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Legend
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I think Lerner is out looking for head coaches and isn't trying to line up coordinators for his yet to be named head coach..
You do realize that I was kidding don't you? I mean about offering Mangini the DC job that is!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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The question has been asked ... Is anyone else trying to interview this guy ????
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All Pro
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It has been said in another thread that others aren't wasting their time with someone that has already been promised the job here. 
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It has been said in another thread that others aren't wasting their time with someone that has already been promised the job here.
I find that one hard to swallow ! 
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All Pro
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me too, hence the face lol
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OP
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I don't believe Mangini has been promised anything yet..
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Time tells all
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2nd String
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Mangini may not have been offered the job directly, but may have been given the ASSumption that it will be his when all is said and done. He may not be doing other interviews because he THINKS the job is his and he may be turning other offers down. Not saying that is it, but you know what can happen when you ASS-U-ME. Like someone else said, time will tell what will happen. 
Hope springs eternal in the heart of a true Browns fan. GO BROWNS!!!!!
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.. " He may not be doing other interviews because he THINKS the job is his and he may be turning other offers down.. "
Would think that's a bit risky . No ?
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Dawg Talker
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I've always had reservations about Mangini.........I won't deny that. However, let's look at some of the reports coming out about him....
1. He's a real hard butt, and difficult to get along with.
2. He's a softy with no emotion (notice the direct contrast)
3. He got onto Favre in front of the team
4. He gave Favre a pass and got onto his WRs for the mistakes (again notice the conflicting report)
5. His coaches didn't like him (this seems to be consistent in all reports)
6. Crappy in game adjustments (all reports seem consistent on this)
7. Questionable decision making late in games (again consistent)
Now, the problem is 1-4 you have conflicting reports, and at this point we don't have enough info to either confirm nor deny the rumors. We may have some we believe (and that in all honestly is probably based on our opinion of Mangini), but there is so much conjecture right now no one can say for certain one way or the other. Here is what we do know about Mangini, and what he brings to the table......
Positives
1. Experienced HC who had some success at the Jets
2. Still very young, and could be with us for along while which would give stability to an organization that desperately needs it.
3. Comes from a good background, and has worked with quality people
Negatives
1. By all accounts his coaches seemed to dislike him
2. He struggled with in game adjustments (complaints from Jets FO, and Jets players)
3. Struggled with late game decisions (again complaints from both Jets FO and players)
So this is what we know fairly certainly, and is a synopsis of the problem that is Mangini. On one hand, he's a fairly young, successfull, and experienced HC who seems ideal. On the other hand he seems to have alienated his coaches, and struggled with in game decisions.
What I hope is that if RL indeed does hire him he feels that Mangini has learned from those past mistakes, because if not I don't think the Mangini version the Jets had is what we need. This is a very important decision, and I hope that Lerner get's it right whatever right is...lol.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Ya know...
reading this, and the rest of the thread. My only thought about this is that it sounds nearly identical to RAC, in the term of gripes of in game things.
Pre-game it seems different, but in-game, that worries me alot.
Will he learn from getting fired? undoubtedly, i dont think he'll buckle to an ego ever again, but...im frightened by hearing things like this.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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The conflicting things are interesting..thats why I said take it with a grain of salt.
I also believe( with this new interview of Heckert) that things are not cemented with Mangini/Kokinis..
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Practice Squad
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•The Favre Factor: Mangini handled Favre with kid gloves, rarely criticizing him in front of the team. Favre led the NFL with 22 interceptions.
I do not know if you guys remember Favre's first day at prctice. He fumbled the snap and was made to run wind sprints. Now I take this article for what it is worth.
But then again the higher up's may have said take it easy on tle old boy.
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Legend
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Legend
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Here's another article,, it's posted on a different thread titled Mangini which will probably added to this thread.. http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/28542865/More detail than we've had.... Otherwise, the same speculation.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
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•The Favre Factor: Mangini handled Favre with kid gloves, rarely criticizing him in front of the team. Favre led the NFL with 22 interceptions.
I do not know if you guys remember Favre's first day at prctice. He fumbled the snap and was made to run wind sprints. Now I take this article for what it is worth.
But then again the higher up's may have said take it easy on tle old boy.
Yeah, but the cameras and media were there, after they finally left things may have changed. Had to put forth the image that Brett was 'just another player'.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The tale of Mangini..
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