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I'm gonna make you feel better Spec
YOU ARE RIGHT, THE REST OF US ARE WRONG...
Feel better now?
Not at all. The frustrating thing isn't that you don't agree with me. If I wanted that, do you think I'd be posting something opinions against out hiring process? If I wanted to have most people agree with me, I'd grab a cup of Kool-Aid, erect a shrine to Mangini and sing Happy Days Are Here Again. The problem is, I've already let myself feel that way about... I don't know... every single failed regime thus far. This time, I'm not going to go assuming that Randy can do no wrong, because all he's done so far has been wrong.
The frustrating thing is how any kind of negative opinion around here of ANYTHING gets blasted because it's not blindly optimistic. Sorry, but I tried that out before and it didn't really work out did it. I'd much rather be cautiously optimistic this time around. Seems to me that not only does it make failure less painful and success more joyous, it also keeps things honest.
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Coach, spec thinks it's a done deal,,, in the end, it may be. But until it's done, it's NOT.
NOT one person among us knows how many intervews actually took place..
And my guess is that not one person among us is even counting Telephone interviews.
I'm sure that a call between Randy Lerner and Shanny took place.. same with McKay..
I wouldn't doubt for ONE SECOND that when Randy called Accorsi, it wasn't to get a recommendation... I bet it was to guage interest. Instead, he got a recommendation. It happens like that.
Some folks just don't get it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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How has Mangini gotten his buddy here? He hasn't been hired. He was also recommended by ERNIE ACCORSI. I would say that Mangini being able to work with him and Ernie Accorsi recommending, along with how wel he interviews will be what gets him the job if he gets it. I guess Lerner should take advice from us instead of Ernie Accorsi on how to successfully build his team? Sorry, btut the process was done through the guidance of one of the most successful execs in the NFL. I'l trust that he knows the process better than any of us.
Getting Accorsi's opinion is very bright. Finding a guy that not only is liked by Accorsi but liked by Mangini, who has experience working with him is outstanding. Giving that guy the job without actually interviewing him or any more than one other candidate is stupid.
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Lets bring in Jeff Jadoginzi for OC. He worked pretty good with Matt Ryan who was NFL ready as a rookie. Its not like BC had a good program before he got there. He also has pro coaching experiance coaching TEs, o-line, and Green Bay OC 2 years ago. I like him better then Callahan. Not that it matters, but its just a name Im putting on my wish list that I have went back and researched.
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Coach, spec thinks it's a done deal,,, in the end, it may be. But until it's done, it's NOT.
How is it not? You have to request permission to interview a guy. That is something that ALWAYS gets reported. I have heard no other reports of us asking for permission outside of Pioli, McKay, Heckert and Kokinis, and 3 of those guys are already out of the picture.
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I dont think Mckay is completely out. I think he wants to interview after the dust settles. Not as a bargaining piece against Pioli.
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty, than those attending too small a degree of it."- Thomas Jefferson on Freedom of Speech
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Provide ONE LNK to a report or a copy of the contract showing Coke has been hired. So, you think Lerner should DEMAND that others interview for the job? Do you think that he should interview people that one of the top execs in the NFL doesn't think would be a good fit? There were 5 people that have been reported to have been contacted about the job. Two have been interviewed, a second will be interviewed, one postponed, and one cancelled. Have you forgotten that Savage's asst. was interviewed?
Let me know when you find the link to Coke having signed a contract without an interview. That will be an interesting read..
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As I said, the interview is a formality. Just because you have to go through an interview doesn't mean Lerner's mind isn't made up before it. Want to bet that he's hired? I'll give you good odds. 
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It´s easy folks.... Lerner fell in love with Mangini...he´s the boss now...he has full control...he will get his GM, OC and DC....it´s Ralph Wiggums show now in Cleveland Mangini might be Mangenius...that I don´t know yet, just like you cheerleaders do not know yet....what I don´t like is the INEXPERIENCE of this regime and the UNBALANCED power Coach...we don´t lack direction? lol..have I missed something? Savage was a prospect happy GM and Romeo a vet-loving HC...and that was evident when RAC didn´t play with Phil´s puppies and Savage didn´t aquire the stopgap vets Romeo wanted Now, I know...Lerner saw this as the main problem and NOW for this regime wants a regime that communicates....that´s great....but you just don´t do it by giving 1 guy, the HC this time, full control....he basically picked his buddies to run the show along with him...there has never been a fair interview contest in this...and Spectre is right on this....who needs a link for that is just  it´s logic 101 So, Lerner to avoid another GM-HC clash reverted back to the Butch Davis-era aka dictatorship....Kokinis will only be here to get Mangini his players...there will be no philosophy or direction as a whole like Parcells installed in MIA....the "direction" will come 100% from Mangini...his buddies might have a veto-right, cause they are his buddies...but he will be calling the shots...and you remember what happened the last time around Berea when the GM asked the HC which player he wants more: the run stopper or the pass rusher...rigth there it was evident enough that Savage wasn´t a competent GM in hindsight with ANY plan whatsoever....HCs are too short sighted and caught up in everyday buisness to be calling shots like that Direction has to come from the TOP, from the club seat of a GM and NOT from a sideline perspective, the HC should give hints and advices to the GM, who has to think long term, not vice versa....Kokinis was not brought in by Lerner, he was recommended by Mangini and Accorsi...and he knows that he wouldnt be sitting there without Mangini...and I haven´t even started my doubts that he could be in over his head, just like Savage, to provide direction even IF he was the guy who was given this competence, which I highly doubt looking at how this has been set up So, Coach...what direction?
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If you had bothered to read my post, it clearly shows the direction that this team is going. I'll take ERNIE ACCORSI''s assessment over yours. Sorry.
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I wouldn't doubt for ONE SECOND that when Randy called Accorsi, it wasn't to get a recommendation... I bet it was to guage interest.
No... it was to get advice....and EA gave him recommendations..thats who Lerner has been talking to..he has a brilliant football mind..
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This time, I'm not going to go assuming that Randy can do no wrong, because all he's done so far has been wrong.
How is everything Randy has done been wrong?
His dad hired Butch, Randy fired him. +1 to Randy
Randy hired Phil who was one of the most repected talent evaluators in the league, then he hired Romeo who was arguably the most sought after guy to be a head coach and everyone on this board thought it was a great idea (including myself)
It didn't work out as planned and he fired them regardless of how much money it will cost him.
Randy may not have the football IQ we wish for but he isn't afraid to spend the money to bring in the guy's we need to make this organization a winner. In all reality he has made one error in judgement in hiring Romeo and Phil but regardless of how that worked out this team is still 10 times better now then when Randy inherited it.
I think your being too hard on the guy. He's made one set of hirings that turned out to be bad.
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Lets bring in Jeff Jadoginzi for OC. He worked pretty good with Matt Ryan who was NFL ready as a rookie.
Matt Ryans college QB ratings the 2 years before Jagodzinski took over were 135.7 and 126.4.. then in his one year under Jags it was 127... but BC threw the ball a heck of a lot more... His numbers under Jags are almost identical to his numbers under O'Brien, only with a lot more attempts, not sure I'd give Jags a whole lot of credit for making Matt Ryan NFL ready...
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Its not like BC had a good program before he got there.
In 2004, they were 9-3... in 2005, 9-3... in 2006, 10-3... in 2007, (Jags first year) 11-3... in 2008, 9-5... O'Brien built that program, Jags inherited a VERY GOOD program and Matt Ryan as a senior...
yebat' Putin
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Why is everyone so upset because mangini will have power in picking the players he has to coach?
So what happens when a GM (just because he is the boss) picks players that don't fit the system just because the GM thinks that they are a good player?
I'll tell you what happens...Turmoil.
Everyone has to be on the same page but the coach should have final say over his 53 man roster and the players he has to coach.
Ever heard the term "you can't polish a turd"?
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Ernie Accorsi isn´t paid by the Browns as far as I know....might as well listen to Coach Cowher and what he "thinks" is good for a franchise....Accorsi is doing the same thing Mangini did...he mentions some competent guys he met 10 years ago (somewhere in 1 of those articles Accorsi was quoted basically sayinbg that he lost sight of Kokinis but that he weas a good guy and hard worker....wow, RAC was a good guy and hard worker too....and recommended by so many "experts"...so?
Reverting back to "I take XY´s expert advise over yours" is pretty much the argumentative white flag....you know we could shut down this whole board with this logic...RAC screws up? "He has SB rings, you dont know ..."...easy, isn´t it? Ill tell you why: it´s flawed logic...you already have the conclusion in your premise...you aren´t saying much more that "This guy is great, he knows it all"...Coach I know you around here and you used this logic to defend to the bitter end all of the regimes...don´t u think you could have been wrong once in all of those discussions with this logic? and if so...shouldn´t you try something else than cheerleading?
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1st String
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Coach, spec thinks it's a done deal,,, in the end, it may be. But until it's done, it's NOT.
How is it not? You have to request permission to interview a guy. That is something that ALWAYS gets reported. I have heard no other reports of us asking for permission outside of Pioli, McKay, Heckert and Kokinis, and 3 of those guys are already out of the picture.
true, but you seem to be ignoring the fact that Kokinis could bomb his interview and Lerner looks elsewhere after.
Don't assume that because Lerner hasn't lined up any more interviews, that Kokinis being hired is a done deal.
It is not like the there is a magical time limit that has passed where Lerner can not request to interview any more candidates.
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Why is everyone so upset because mangini will have power in picking the players he has to coach?
So what happens when a GM (just because he is the boss) picks players that don't fit the system just because the GM thinks that they are a good player?
I'll tell you what happens...Turmoil.
Everyone has to be on the same page but the coach should have final say over his 53 man roster and the players he has to coach.
Ever heard the term "you can't polish a turd"?
Ever heard of Butch Davis? or Mike Cameron? or Nick Saban? or Bobby Petrino? 
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Are you being paid by the Browns?
Why do I need to listen to you?
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LOL, nice try. I see you are now forced to resort to rewriting history. Yet, you talk about taking the opinion of someone that has built SEVERAL franchises into winners over yours as a "white flag".  Ernie Accorsi has to be paid to give one of his good friends solid advice about a team that is close to Accorsi's heart? Do I need to give you a history lesson about Accorsi's attachment and feelings towards the Browns? Accorsi did an outstanding job in Cleveland. He did an outstanding job in New York. He also did an outstanding job of advising the Falcons while they put THEIR FO and coaching staff in place. He has proven that he knows what he's talking about. You......well, you've been dooming and glooming for how long? Seriously, how can you POSSIBLY say that you have any better skills at evaluating who would be best for the Browns than Ernie Accorsi? How can you state your opinions as fact as to what happened behind closed doors, who Lerner talked to, who he attempted to interview, and when he decided that Mangini was the right choice? I don't even claim such outrageous things and I know people within the organization. To state such opinions as fact and proclaim the Browns will fail is just hyperbole, speculation, and sad. "Flawed logic is rewriting history, asserting yor assumptions, guesses, and opinions as fact, and claiming to know the mindset of someone you know nothing about. That's "flawed logic". 
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He had no choice but to fire Butch - if the house is on fire, you're not going to stay in it.
Hiring Savage and Romeo was a mistake, albeit a well intentioned one. He asked a ton of people, gathered a bunch of opinions and then made the decision himself. It was wrong because he didn't realize how bad the conflict would be. He's doing the same thing this time, only he's making sure those people can work together. It's an improvement in logic. Is it good enough to work? Beats me. He's done what he thinks is the best for what he himself can do as the head of this process.
There comes a point in time, though, that if you keep trusting yourself to gather the information and you never get it right, maybe someone else should be doing that for you. Maybe there's a limitation here that needs to be realized. Just my 2c.
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How is it not? You have to request permission to interview a guy.
HOW IS IT NOT? Oh my what a short memory you have.. a week ago, it looked like a done deal that Pioli was coming here.. how did that work out?
It's not done, till it's done. Mangini has recommended koks... Accorsi has recommended Koks.. But I guarantee you this,, if Koks sits down with Lerner and takes a leak on his shoe,,, Koks is OUT. If Koks demands 10 mill a year, Koks is OUT, if Koks wants a new company car each year and it has to be a Bentley Contenental GT Speed.. Koks is OUT!
There is also another side to this.... what if everything goes well with the interview from Randys side, and Randy meets all financial requirements, but Koks says,,, Not interested. I like living in Bmore.. Thanks but No Thanks.. It could happen..
Which by the way means,,,, it's not done,, Till it's done!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Come on now.
Butch Davis was an arrogant jerk that thought he could "polish a turd" because he thought he was the best coach on the planet and nobody else knew anything. Remember Ron Wolfe?
Mangini doesn't seem to be that type of guy and he doesn't have near the power butch did. My feeling on the subject is that (and he said it in his presser) he wants to surround himself with harworking, knowledgable people and coem to descisions through a consensus.
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I have always had a high opinion of Accorsi. He's been involved in the highest levels of pro football for years. Offhand, I'd say he knows what he's doing.
SaintDawg™
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That has nothing to do with giving a job without an interview. It's not HOPING for anything, it's conducting due diligence.
Okay, maybe NOW we can narrow in your point or lack there of..........
You have already said you feel Coke is a "prime candidate".
Do YOUR "due dilligence" here.
Name ONE OTHER "prime candidate" that you can pretty much "be assured of" working with Mangini and being on the same page with Mangini from DAY ONE!?????
Go ahead.....
You're getting exactly what you claim we need it appears. You just don't like the way we're getting there?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Why is everyone so upset because mangini will have power in picking the players he has to coach?
So what happens when a GM (just because he is the boss) picks players that don't fit the system just because the GM thinks that they are a good player?
I'll tell you what happens...Turmoil.
Everyone has to be on the same page but the coach should have final say over his 53 man roster and the players he has to coach.
Ever heard the term "you can't polish a turd"?
Ever heard of Butch Davis? or Mike Cameron? or Nick Saban? or Bobby Petrino?
You ever hear of Bill Cowher, Andy Reid, Mike Shanahan or Mike Holmgren?
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Name ONE OTHER "prime candidate" that you can pretty much "be assured of" working with Mangini and being on the same page with Mangini from DAY ONE!?????
Hook me up with Mangini's cell and I'll find out for you. I guarantee you that there is more than one qualified man in the NFL that can work with Mangini... if not, that's a bigger problem then the one we're debating now.
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No... it was to get advice....and EA gave him recommendations..thats who Lerner has been talking to..he has a brilliant football mind..
Attack, I've been in the recruiting business most of my life.. and while I've made such calls, I've always had in the back of my mind,,, "what if"?
I've learned,, you never say never...
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Well, hook me up with Lerner's cell and I'll let you know which one of them he called or didn't call about the job.
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Ever heard the term "you can't polish a turd"?
Actually Mythbusters showed that you can.
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Glad I missed that one.
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Well, hook me up with Lerner's cell and I'll let you know which one of them he called or didn't call about the job.
Sure thing, let me go find it. I think I left it in the Lamborghini.
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Giving that guy the job without actually interviewing him or any more than one other candidate is stupid.
Are u "Stuck on Stupid"???
The dude DOES NOT have the job...
He WILL BE interviewed...
WT?'s your problem?????????
Go Browns!!!
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Giving that guy the job without actually interviewing him or any more than one other candidate is stupid.
Are u "Stuck on Stupid"???
The dude DOES NOT have the job...
He WILL BE interviewed...
WT?'s your problem?????????
Saying he doesn't have a job is like saying Obama isn't the president yet because he hasn't been inaugurated. It may be true, but it doesn't change the inevitability of it at all. Name an alternative and maybe I'll subscribe to your opinion.
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note quite....Obama has been offered and accepted the job. his start date just hasn't kicked in yet.
what you are prescribing to is more like giving Obama the job the day before the election. sure, he was leading by a wide margin in all the polls, but until you count them up, you don't know what is going to happen.
also, McKay apparently is still an option for Lerner. I haven't heard of anyone from Tennessee, but they do a great job evaluating talent, so I would assume there might be someone there if Lerner doesn't feel comfortable with Kokinis. Other teams to look at could be Pittsburgh and Dallas. And yes, Dallas has personell men beyond Jerry Jones.
#gmstrong
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Old Mr.Barnum sure was right.
Mckay,in very gentlemanly manner,excused himself from this job.
Heckert wants no part of this pacaca.
That leaves Kolitis.
There's noone else.
In reality it doesn't matter.I mean how much qualifacation do you need to say
"Yessir,Mr.Mangini,Isa gets that guy for yas"
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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what you are prescribing to is more like giving Obama the job the day before the election. sure, he was leading by a wide margin in all the polls, but until you count them up, you don't know what is going to happen.
Kind of, except that right now, every other candidate has withdrawn from the ballot. You don't consider that inevitability?
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If you had bothered to read my post, it clearly shows the direction that this team is going. I'll take ERNIE ACCORSI''s assessment over yours. Sorry.
where's that at?
Go Browns!!![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/BrowniePoints/AndersonSnowPic.jpg)
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We have an owner who wanted to capitalize on what was here and decided on an experienced HC and had one of the best football minds in the game to help him with the decision. We have continuity in offensive and defensive philosphy. We have successful coaches now running our team. We are looking for a GM that will WORK HAND IN HAND with the HC. Naw, we have no direction whatsoever on this team.
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So, McKay will never reschedule and there are on other candidates Lerner could be considering? Even after scheduling Coke's interview, he scheduled with Heckert. Seems to me he's still looking. Add to that the report that said Lerner wasn't in a hurry to hire a GM and it adds up to more possibilities. You have information to the contrary?
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I think it is very likely. I do not think it is inevitable. Kokinis has to come in very well prepared for his interview and make Lerner comfortable that he can handle not only the FA and contracts, but also that he has a plan in place for how he will handle the draft.
the part of the interview he should ace with flying colors is the how he will work with Mangini, so that is his advantage.
#gmstrong
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