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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Nah, I got my tinfoil hat to protect me. 
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
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Legend
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I'm more for fair and balanced reporting and that's not what we get.
Let's face it, Bad news sells. Pretty much the way it's always been.
WE are, without a doubt, having extreme job losses all over the place. Hardly a business sector has been immune thus far. it's ugly and there isn't any getting round it.
But there are bright spots... one of them is that we still have a very high percentage of folks working in the US. But the news focuses on the unemployed rising.
We didn't hear much at al about Battelle Memorial Labs in Columbus planning on hiring 200 folks this year.. or a company in Toledo with well in excess of 100 openings just in the US alone.
Small numbers, I know... compared to the number that are losing jobs.. I get it.
Raise your hand if you are willing and capable of purchasing a new car right now but aren't going to becuase you are unsure of your future? My hand is up by the way.
Raise your hand if your are willing and capable of purchasing a new sofa from a local retailer but you aren't going to because you are unsure of your future? My hand is up again.
I"m hording cash and not making any debt.. about the only thing I intend to do this month out of the ordinary is donate a few bucks to Purp for this site on paypal...
That's one of the very few things that I'll be doing outside of the basics.
Can I do more, am I willing to spend more... yes.. But I'm concerned. so instead, me and millions more like me aren't spending.. Thus making the economy even worse.
Why do I feel this way... well, two reasons, one, I've personally felt the pain of losing some business and seeing my income erode some.. and second, I hear absolutly NOTHING that tells me I shouldn't worry.
So I do what I need to do to put food on the table.
For what it's worth, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I don't agree ... and here's why ....
U have one company (Hyunda) that increased sales by 16% in an industry where EVERY ONE ELSE GOT HAMMERED ... should they mention Hyundai ... YUP .... but the BIG STORY is the other 4 - 6 manufacturers posting record drops in sales ...
and keys .. they said the big reason for this drop was due to FLEET SALES ... thats gov't agencies, car rental agencies and other big buyers ... and these folks aren't BEING SCARED by the media .. there doing what they see fit to LIMIT LOSSES at this point in time ...
and thats good news about Wal Mart .. but the RECORD JOB LOSSES again .... DWARFS THAT .... and the fact Walmart is increasing sales/profits should be another tell tale sign of the economy slipping ... it very well could mean that folks that were spending money at Penney's and Kauffman's are now going to Wal Mart ....
your basically blaming the media for not pointing out the fingers in the damm while the entire damm is about to burst .....
the one piece of real good news ... Cisco did beat Wall Street estimates .... but the other DECREASES AND DOWNTURNS unfortunately for us dwarf that ...
here's an article from today .... and i had no clue about this yesterday ....
Nation's mayors press Congress to act quickly on stimulusStory
Mayors from around U.S. meeting with lawmakers in Washington
Los Angeles mayor: "It's time to stop the bickering and start the tough negotiating"
Akron, Ohio, mayor urges economic stimulus bill "to get people back to work"
New survey shows that eight in 10 cities are in financial trouble
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Mayors from across the country descended on the nation's capital Wednesday with a clear message to Washington that their cities were in urgent need of an immediate economic stimulus.
Miami, Florida, Mayor Manny Diaz and other U.S. mayors are meeting Wednesday with congressional leaders.
Miami, Florida, Mayor Manny Diaz, president of the nonpartisan U.S. Conference of Mayors, led the delegation of mayors, whose first meeting of the day was with top White House senior advisers.
Later Wednesday, Diaz and other mayors attended meetings with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-California, and other key congressional leaders.
The U.S. Senate is debating a nearly $900 billion economic stimulus package backed by President Obama and congressional Democrats. Senate Republican leaders are pushing for a bill with more tax cuts and less spending. They also have said they want more emphasis on helping homeowners.
Los Angeles, California, Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, a Democrat, told reporters that "it's time to stop the bickering and start the tough negotiating to get this bill out to ensure that the American people in our cities get the relief that they need right now."
Akron, Ohio, Mayor Donald Plusquellic, another Democrat, echoed that sentiment.
"It may be fun and games up here for senators to argue details and get down in the weeds, but just as mayors have to do in facing issues firsthand -- when the snow hits we've got to get it off the street," Plusquellic said.
Money: Survey says 84 percent of cities in trouble
"The senators need to stop business as usual here in Washington and get to work on a bill that can be presented to get people back to work."
Obama has been urging Congress to act quickly on the stimulus legislation, warning that "if we do not act boldly and swiftly, a bad situation could become dramatically worse."
"This president was elected on hope, and what our people at home are hoping [for is that] our Congress will give them something concrete to work with," said Republican Mayor Rita Mullins of Palatine, Illinois, near Chicago.
Diaz, who is an independent, pointed to massive job cuts as a key issue facing Americans across the country.
"The economic news on Main Street is bad and is getting worse. Every day all of us have seen more and more people unemployed in our cities, more people losing their homes, small businesses that are ... closing their doors," Diaz said. "Our people continue to suffer, and we're here to support the president's call for a stimulus package."
The mayors' trip to Washington comes as a new survey, out Wednesday, shows more than eight in 10 cities are in financial trouble, up from 64 percent from six months ago.
The National League of Cities said the recession is straining cities' ability to meet their financial needs. Around 84 percent of cities reported facing fiscal difficulties, the highest percentage since the group started doing surveys in 1985.
Things likely will remain tough in 2009. Some 92 percent of the cities surveyed expected to have trouble meeting their city needs during this year. To cope, they are implementing hiring freezes and layoffs, delaying capital expenditures and instituting service cuts. Read more about the report
Some 69 percent have instituted hiring freezes or layoffs, while 42 percent are delaying or canceling infrastructure projects, according to the survey. Another 22 percent have instituted across-the-board cuts, it said.
Local and state officials are especially worried this year that if federal funds don't flow to the states, severe cuts to programs such as Medicaid and K-12 education will have to take place.
"Time is of the essence ... we have to get the money out as quickly as we can," said Republican Vermont Gov. Jim Douglas during a meeting Monday with Obama in the Oval Office. "I think we need to find some common ground. We need to pass a bill that works."
One place where especially tough decisions are taking place is New York, the country's financial hub.
On Friday, Mayor Michael Bloomberg, an independent, said his city may have to cut tens of thousands of jobs --- and increase the sales tax -- to deal with a $4 billion budget shortfall for fiscal year 2009 that begins in July.
New York has faced a tougher time than most cities because the bulk of its economy depends on Wall Street viability. The financial industry was rocked last year by the crisis in the credit industry and home mortgage meltdown, which led to the collapse of major investment houses and the loss of jobs.
In other cities around the country, the cuts in jobs and proposed tax increases weigh heavily on vulnerable small businesses, a vital asset to a municipality's economy.
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Legend
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Seminole Casino in Immokalee, FL just hired 400 people..Guess folks still have money to gamble with. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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U need some antennas on it bro .. *L* ....
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Dawg Talker
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See, you missed my point.
I am NOT saying there aren't problems that are facing us. I AM saying that ONE of those problems are consumer confidence. And that particular problem is prone to media influence. The doom and gloom that is being reported is partially responsible. Not entirely, but partially. If they reported the good news AND the bad, then I think it wouldn't be as bad. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
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Legend
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Quote:
Seminole Casino in Immokalee, FL just hired 400 people..Guess folks still have money to gamble with.
again, drop in the bucket compared to job losses,, but it's good news just the same..
Hey,, now that you mention it, my wife and mother in law went to Mountineer Saturday... (mother in laws treat by the way) The place was packed.. people spending like crazy on gambling.. where is the money coming from.
My wife went down with 200 and returned with 200 and she played the penny slots for hours and hours and hours.. in fact, they left here at about 1pm on Saturday and returned about noon on sunday.. gambled the entire evening.. Someone tell me,, where is all this money coming from for gaming?
Or is it desparation. is it that people are so desparate for the "big Payoff" that they will take what little they have and spend it on gambling?
Dunno,, but you won't catch me at a casino unless they build one near me and I need a job 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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So u understand that the 400 - 500 new jobs that U know about pale in comparision to the 35,000 jobs lost last week based on new filing for unemployment from last week ... yet somehow cause the media is talking about the 35,000 lost jobs instead of the 500 new jobs in your area alone there FEAR MONGERERS ... I don't get it bro .... U sound like bOtch after we got beat 45 - 10 talking about the "bright "spots in his presser ... the fact we did a great job holding them when they had 3rd and over 15 .. we held them 100% of the time when we got them in that situation ... forget the fact it only happend once and that was when they had two delay of games and a fumble on the exchange on a hand off that lost them 10 yards ....  I am not nor have I ever been a fan of the media .. IMO there 2nd to only politicians in the bottom of the barrell ... they commit a cardinal sin IMO .. the REPRESENT "fairness" and 'equity" and nuttin could be further from the truth .. and i HATE DECEPTION ... so to me .. there right there just marginally better than politicians ... BUT in this case .... they'd be decieving us by painting a rosier pic than they should be .... and bro ... I think your kidding yourself if U believe U are not buying a car or a sofa because of what the media is saying .... I believe your not buying them cause of all the job losses and income reduction going on around U .. I believe your NOT BUYING because of the STATE OF THE ECONOMY and not because of the REPORTING OF THE STATE OF THE ECONOMY ... its fear all right ... the fear of what is going on in our economy ... and not some fear created by the media ... and quite frankly .... you'd be a dolt not to be leary right now ...
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Dawg Talker
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Well, my question would be why not at least give the good ~some~ of the press? Why not mention it? I understand that the 45 min story is about the drops in the economy, but there isn't enough time to spend 2 mins on the good that happened?
I'm not calling them fear mongers either. I'm calling them sensationalistic. They play up the bad more than they need to in my opinion. And my opinion is no less valid than theirs, but it seems ok for them to say things and me not to. It's ok. I will still focus on the good and find it where I can.
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
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1st String
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I agree Keys.
Perception and Reality have blurred and we are in a cycle of Perception reinforcing reality causing the economy to spiral downward.
Honestly, from September to Christmas, I did not notice any effects of the downturn in the economy in Iowa City. The stores were packed with shoppers and it was hard to find a spot in the parking lots.
This past weekend I went to the mall for the fist time in a month and was absolutely amazed. We went on Sunday before the Superbowl and I expected the mall to be deserted, but what I did not expect were the store closings. There were three new stores closed; Foot locker, Great American Cookie and forever 21. And I would say that over 50% of the small carts that are in the middle were gone. You could actually walk down the middle of the mall. It was so weird.
It is true that we are in the shopping lull, after Christmas where everyone is recovering and paying off their debt, but it seems like this traditional downturn is being magnified and stores that could normally ride out this slow period cannot.
The other thing that reinforces Fear driving the recession is the stock market. Our GDP has decreased by roughly 4% the last two quarters, but in the same time the stock Market has fallen about 40%.
I am sure that some of the value was overinflated, but it is amazing how fast people pulled their money out when the word "Recession" was mentioned.
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No .. I didn't miss your point .. I just don't agree with it ...
I understand that consumer confidence is HUGE when it comes to our economy ... but my belief is that discretionary income is even more important than what the media reports in regards to consumer confidence ...
Daman's a perfect example for this one aspect of what is going on (and I apologize for using U as an example Daman ... its just a good example cause of your recent post ... I am not being my usual rude and a-hole self .. I will not do that cause this is actually serious and not the BS in PF) ...
he could go buy a new car and couch but is "afraid" to ... his CONFIDENCE AS A CONSUMER IS DOWN ........ IMO the fact his income has decreased and the VERY REAL THREAT it may decrease again through a loss of business due to no fault of his own has alot more to with his LACK OF CONSUMER CONFIDENCE than the way the media is reporting it ...
its like the messenger is being blamed ... and to me ... for once .. the messenger is not even remotely close to the problem ...
and what the news is reporting about the job losses is just one aspect in what is going on here ... CREDIT is another huge problem .... bith our countries debt and the fact its hard as hell to get now ...
any way .. I get what your saying ... I just disagree with it ... and we'll just have to agree to disagree ... well unless u want to change your mind ... *L* ...
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the good does get some of the press .... if it didn't how would we know about it ...  ... were under a haystack of bad news .... and the press is suppose to focus on the needle of good news buried in that haystack of bad news ... and Hyundai did get a BIG PORTION of the news .. cause they found a great way to disguise and say REPOSSES ... the first time I saw that commercial I just started *L* ... cause I knew that folks would be taken in by the FALSE 'security" blanket that Hyundai was throwing out there ... I thought to myself ... wow what nice folks ... there going to take back the car I can't afford to pay for anymore earlier than they would without this "kindness" ... Packaging ... they did a great job of packaging it and got enough folks to fall for it and increased sumptin 16% ...
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I agree....it isn't a false fear people have....they don't have the money to spend.
Jobs are being lost every week....discretionary money is now being spent on groceries and utility bills.
I know for some years I could buy the food for the week along with all the normal extras...tube of toothpaste, pack of lightbulbs...that sort of stuff for my wife and I for right at $100 a week.
It now costs $145 a week...never fails..that is what it comes to nearly every week....unless it is dog week and have to get their stuff which takes it up another $25 or so for the 2 weeks their food lasts.
And this was over a short period of time....say 2 months it jumped $45...the same stuff...
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Diam, you keep going back to the fact that there are job losses to show that this isn't media driven in some way... but why are there job losses? What is the cause of the job losses? If Congress (and these mayors) believes that dumping $900 billion into the economy is going to fix it, then it must be THEIR opinion that the reason is that money is not being spent. Because unless the problem is lack of spending, spending more isn't going to fix it right?
Ok, so why isn't money being spent? money isn't being spent for 2 reasons, IMHO.. one was a much tighter credit market made it harder for people to borrow and spend money they didn't have. The other reason is that fear and panic caused people to sit on, instead of spending, the money they DID HAVE.
Have we had skyrocketing inflation lately which devalues the dollar? No. Have we had a huge drop in wages recently so working people don't have as much money? No Are gas prices still at $4 a gallon? No...
You just can't say we are having an awful economy because of job losses... Job losses, in a cause and effect system like an economy, are the effect, not the cause... so what IS the cause?
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
So u understand that the 400 - 500 new jobs that U know about pale in comparision to the 35,000 jobs lost last week based on new filing for unemployment from last week ...
I don't know why you found it necessary to tell me that.. yes, I understand that the hiring is being far outweighted by the lay offs....
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yet somehow cause the media is talking about the 35,000 lost jobs instead of the 500 new jobs in your area alone there FEAR MONGERERS ... I don't get it bro ....
Woooo there big fella... I'm not even close to suggesting that they NOT report layoffs... I'm suggesting fair and honest and BALANCED reporting. Right now the scales are leaning towards the negative.. no question.,.
But why isn't it just as important to report the number of people STILL working.. you know,, I can tell you for absolutly sure that there were people hired in January... I'm certain the number is insignificant by comparison, but why isn't it reported that over 5000 were hired in January.
The point being is that a fair and balanced report would be,, 35000 laid off, 2750 hired... Still bad news.. but fair and balanced.
ANd I never used the term Fear Mongering.. someone else may have, but I haven't.
THis is a much more serious situation, I can't reduce it to football analogies...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Hall of Famer
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j/c
My company is finally breaking out the hatchet this week.
Since we do pre-employment screening, when we start to pick up, I'll have a feel for when this thing is turning around. I was doing some research and stumbled across this site. Its a monthly layoff tracker of top 500 companies.
"My signature line goes here."
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Legend
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The fear mongering about a bad recession has been going on for over a year now. The layoffs, haven't really seemed to come around until now ... which sort of point to what DC is saying. The media constant pounding the hype that "we're in a recession" has now led to people holding onto their money ... and thus, actually creating a real recession.
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Legend
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Quote:
You just can't say we are having an awful economy because of job losses... Job losses, in a cause and effect system like an economy, are the effect, not the cause... so what IS the cause?
Not that you asked me directly, but I'll give ya my two cents..
Deregulation and loosening of the mortgage lending policies which led to greed on the part of those that jumped into the Lending industry with both feet that later led to ARM's that later led to foreclosures, which led to bank liquidity issues, which led to the tightening of credit.
Business can't borrow, they can't spend.. Jobs lost... the circle continues.
Those that invested heavly in the Subprime mortgage business because of promises of huge profits did well if they dumped out early.. those that contiued on the path got killed.
At the top of the chain was perhaps a well intentioned but poorly thought out effort to increase home ownership that, left completely unchecked caused things to run amok.
To me this started under the Clinton Adminstation and just continued with the Bush adminstration and it didn't seem to matter much which party had the most clout or people in office.. Nobody did anything to correct the situation.
So at one point, anyone with a heartbeat could qualify to buy a $450k home.
Here is an example of just one of the kinda things that took place. This was in the Plain Dealer yesterday... This is GREED AT WORK:
Quote:
11 people, two companies indicted for fraudulent Solon home loans
Wednesday, February 04, 2009 Gabriel BairdPlain Dealer Reporter
Eleven people and two companies were indicted Tuesday on fraud-related charges in connection with three Solon homes that fell into foreclosure.
The indictments, which stem from Solon police investigations, claim that $2.3 million in fraudulent loans were obtained to buy homes at 38190 Flanders Drive, 7234 Liberty Road, and 35900 Sedge Circle.
The indictments alleged that groups that were working independently of each other obtained each of the three properties. In each case, the indictment says that the scams involved inflating the home buyers' incomes so they could acquire loans they would not otherwise have qualified for.
Here is what happened, according to a statement by Cuyahoga County Prosecutor Bill Mason and the county's Mortgage Task Force.
Dana Fort, 47, of Reminderville, led a scam that got Steven Pearlman, 45, who currently lives in Cedar Hill, Texas, and Stephanie Walker, 36, of East Cleveland, a $799,000 loan for the Flanders Drive home. Vido Tatum, 48, of Solon; Deric Nichols, 42, of Warrensville Heights; and Lisa Roberts, 43, of Cleveland took part with the help of D.E.F. and Associates and Global Property Management.
Carolyn Turbeville, 51, of Solon, enlisted the help of Sharon Cox, 48, of Aurora, and Carol Smith, 67, of Aurora, to get a loan for $490,00 for the home on Liberty Road.
Carol Smith, 67, of Aurora, set up a scam so Arnold Patterson, 64, of Cleveland, could get a $495,000 loan for the home on Sedge Circle. Patterson later sold the home to Curtis Bloxson, 50, of Warrensville Heights, who got a $565,000 loan using false information. Kasib Husain, 40, of Cleveland Heights, and Sharon Cox, 48, of Aurora are accused of taking part in the scam.
The charges against the individuals include theft by deception, receiving stolen property, falsification, money laundering, telecommunications fraud, securing writings by deception and forgery. The felonies carry penalties of six months to 10 years in prison and fines of up to $20,000. The two companies face fines of up to $25,000.
Reached by phone, Bloxson said he committed no crime. "I just applied for the loan, got a house and rented it out," he said. The other defendants could not be reached for comment.
To reach this Plain Dealer reporter:
gbaird@plaind.com, 216-999-5833
http://www.cleveland.com/plaindealer/stories/index.ssf?/base/iscri/123373982061080.xml&coll=2
It's probably just my opinion and I really don't expect many to agree with me, but when we took our eyes off of the lending industry, scumbags saw an opportunity and rushed in to take advantage.
At the end of the Clinton adminstrations time in office, a few economists were warning of a pending calamity and most were laughed off. As Bush came into office, the warnings became stronger, then 9/11 hit and without a doubt, Bush was distracted as would any of us in that position be at that moment.
I'm not one of those that blame Bush for all these problems... I do blame him for not getting to work on them sooner in his adminstration.. That's one of the many reasons I voted for him to begin with.
I think economists would tell you that had we begun to work on these issues when foreclosures first started to rise dramatically in late 2002 and early 2003, that we would NOT be in this situation now.
Had steps that are being taken by lending institutions to work with borrowers today been taken in 2002, we'd still have seen foreclosures, but I doubt it would be anywhere near as horrid a problem as it is now.
It's like cancer... in so so many cases, when diagnosed early, it's treatable perhaps even beatable.. but when it's too late, it's just too late.
That's the only thing I can lay directly at the feet of all politicians in office since it all began in the 90's.
Them not doing thier job, coupled with greedy people, coupled with stupid people buying houses they couldn't afford just cause someone would give them a loan.
How could you not know that you can't afford a 1000 a month house payment+ Property taxes+utilities, if you only make 2000 gross a month?
Where was the realtor, where was the loan officier, where was the loan processor... how come someone didn't say,, dude, you can't afford this house?
I may be completely alone on this... but that's my thoughts.... That's how I think we got to where we are.
I should also add, 10 billion a month spent on a war didn't help.. you'd have thought that someone in our governement would have figured out that that's exactly what our enemies wanted us to do. That's how the USSR ended up on it's knees in the late 80's. Nothing new about thier methods.
How we get out of this? that's a horse of a different color all together.
If I had the absolute answer,, I'd share it you... I really would.
SO many folks are condeming these recent efforts to get a spending bill passed that the President says will stimulate the economy..
I haven't a clue if that will work which is why I'm neither yelling for it or against it. I'm probably as confused by it as any normal citizen..
But we supposedly have smart people that "we the people" hired to do a job for us.
In the last election, I think we gave them clear marching orders to fix the economy, end this war SUCCESSFULLY and create an envirnoment where sustained but honest growth can occur.
So, to the D's and the R's and the I's...... get off your butts and get to work. Quit bickering... it will provide you with no answers and will only serve to further erode any confidence we have in our futures.
Man do I feel better about getting that off my chest...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Diam, you keep going back to the fact that there are job losses to show that this isn't media driven in some way
I'm not really going back to anything .... I keep talking about the job losses because that is about 99% of there argument as to why the media is partially to blame for Consumer Confidence being in the tank right now ...
thats there basis for there argument ... so thats what I am talking about ...
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but why are there job losses? What is the cause of the job losses?
thats a real big ball of wax with many different variables playing into it ... I'd rather not get into it on here ... but if u really want me to I will give a list of reasons ... and then if u want after that i will give a cause/affect and try to weave it all together .. that'll take some time and i would rather not ... but like i said ... if u wish i will do it ...
I did mention the broad stroke as to why ... we have some FUNDAMENTAL issues in this country that have led us to this point .. thats very broad ... but i think U know what i mean ... if not I will go into detail if u want ...
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If Congress (and these mayors) believes that dumping $900 billion into the economy is going to fix it, then it must be THEIR opinion that the reason is that money is not being spent. Because unless the problem is lack of spending, spending more isn't going to fix it right?
come on bro ... this isn't the 30's or 40's ... we been trying to spend our way out of this for 20 years now IMO .. we been massaing this for a long ass time .....
and u want me to put my faith in politicians .. *L* ... not a shot in hell ... there self serving bastards that want the status quo cause the status quo is good for them .. to me there a HUGE PART of why were in this position ..... and they've got us in some real hot water and there about to be in a huge amount of trouble ... we've been a forgiving (i prefer oblivious) society for a long time casue theres been more than enough to go around (IMO cause of them HIDING and MASSAGING things for the last 20 years) .... well now theres not going to be enough to go along for us to continue the standard of living were used to ... and we will not be so forgiving ...
how'd the first couple of stimulus packages work for us??? ... how is this round of bailouts going so far ... and more importantly ... HOW MANY ROUNDS WILL THERE BE ...
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Ok, so why isn't money being spent? money isn't being spent for 2 reasons, IMHO.. one was a much tighter credit market made it harder for people to borrow and spend money they didn't have.
I agree 100% with that one .. actually mentioned credit as one of the big factors .... to expound on what u said .. cause credit attacks us in 3 or 4 different ways at 3 or 4 different levels ... Credit is a broad ass term and relates to two aspects at the individual, gov't, small business and medium/big business level .... and thats not to mention the lending institutions ...
u seem to be saying how hard it is to get credit now and i ASSume u mean at the individual level cause I ASSume were talking about why $$$ is not being spent at the individual level ... and i agree .. it went from way to easy to way to hard .. as usual we we over reacted ...
the other aspect that were forgetting about .... is how much folks are paying to GET OUT OF DEBT at this point ... instead of buying new things and creating debt or using disposal income folks are PAIRING DOWN DEBT .... witch is a good thing ... well for those that are "paying" it down and now "writing" it off anyhow ....
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The other reason is that fear and panic caused people to sit on, instead of spending, the money they DID HAVE.
I agree ... what we must disagree on then is the reason for that fear and panic ... I say its because Kodak is going to reduce there work force by about 35% AGAIN .... I say its cause Circuit City is closing .. I say that Caterpillar cutting 20k and Sprint 8k and on and on and on ... I;d say thats the reason ..
I say its because people are losing there jobs .. I;d say its because those who are not are in one of 3 categories:
1. Afraid to lose there jobs cause of whats going on around them ...
2. taking striaght up pay cuts ...
3. losing overtime .... I know of 3 people myself that are losing about 20 - 25% of what they made last year because of the loss of OT ... thats just immediate family members ...
IMO thats whay CONSUMER CONFIDENCE IS FALLING ...
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Have we had a huge drop in wages recently so working people don't have as much money? No
your partially right ...
1. theres less working people now ...
2. overtime and wages have been cut .... there is no doubt about that ... in Cali they've had forced days off with no pay in gov't positions for awhile now ...
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You just can't say we are having an awful economy because of job losses... Job losses, in a cause and effect system like an economy, are the effect, not the cause... so what IS the cause?
I agree 100% .. and like i said earlier ... only reason i am harping on the jobs is thats the main focus of the folks that want to blame the media for lack of consumer confiedence ...
as for whats the cause ... the easy answer is were not buying product ... meaning were not spending like we used to ... now the problem is trying to figure out why were not spending as much ON PURSCHASING products and goods and services to keep the economy going ... and that is a VERY COMPLEX answer that takes into account many many variables ...
to me ... theres alot of FUNDAMENTAL causes for the affects were seeing ... i will list some of them if u like .. but thats gonna open an entirely different ball of wax and be strictly my opinion ...
to me ... the media is playing a VERY VERY SMALL PART IN THIS ... there are REAL ISSUES that have put us where we are today ....
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The fear mongering about a bad recession has been going on for over a year now. The layoffs, haven't really seemed to come around until now ... which sort of point to what DC is saying. The media constant pounding the hype that "we're in a recession" has now led to people holding onto their money ... and thus, actually creating a real recession.
I can only speak for me, but that's what I'm doing.. that's for damn sure.
But I gotta say this,, to my recollection, I've personally never used the term Fear Mongering.. I don't think that's what they are doing.
I just believe that bad news sells and so the media naturally leans in that direction.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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SO many folks are condeming these recent efforts to get a spending bill passed that the President says will stimulate the economy..
I haven't a clue if that will work which is why I'm neither yelling for it or against it. I'm probably as confused by it as any normal citizen..
The problem with this spending bill, this "stimulus" bill, is that the vast majority of it is going towards more gov't - NOT helping people.
Is this really the time to be sending money to national parks?
Is this really the time to be retrofitting gov't. buildings to be more energy efficient?
Is this really the time to start new gov't. programs?
Is this the time to spend billions to save hundreds of jobs?
Is this the time to spend billions and billions on pork?
Or would this be the time to cut gov't. spending?
Would this be the time to induce businesses, the few that are left here that make anything, anyway, to create jobs?
We don't need new software.
We don't need new movies.
We do need jobs that produce products that people need.
Sorry, we can't be a service provider country if no one needs our services, all while we buy products we need that are made overseas.
Cut taxes - not some $500 per person or $1000 per couple, especially when you give that money to people that don't PAY taxes (to me, that's called welfare. To some, it's called financial redistribution. To all, it should be called BS)
Help the companies that are still here, and help the companies that move jobs back here.
Screw spending over $1 million dollars per job created. That's a lose lose situation.
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Hey Arch,, I know you must know where to get the information I need to enlighten myself on this spending bill,,
Do you know where the info is where it's broken down as to what will be spent on what?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Not that you asked me directly,
No I didn't.. so shut up. 
Just kidding Daman, some interesting thoughts, won't respond to all but..
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Deregulation and loosening of the mortgage lending policies
I agree that was a huge part of it... So who are you saying is at fault? The banks for creating bad loan programs or the government for allowing them (actually encouraging them) to do it?
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It's probably just my opinion and I really don't expect many to agree with me, but when we took our eyes off of the lending industry, scumbags saw an opportunity and rushed in to take advantage.
Ok, this partially answers my previous question. But I don't think government merely took their eyes off of it, I think they actually PUSHED THEM down this road...
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Where was the realtor, where was the loan officier, where was the loan processor... how come someone didn't say,, dude, you can't afford this house?
Making money. They were in the same place people were in when investors were giving any crackpot with a computer and a "sounds neat" idea millions of dollars to start a company in the mid to late 90s... Where were the people saying, "Dude, you're giving a few 20 year old kids $10million, they've got no business plan, they've got no clue if their idea will even work, they've got no track record... " Because others were making small (sometimes large) fortunes doing it... and had gotten away with it a few times.... That's where they were. How quickly we forget.
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How we get out of this? that's a horse of a different color all together.
If I had the absolute answer,, I'd share it you... I really would.
The problem is that the hole we are in.. this problem, isn't going to be cured or even remotely fixed in one election cycle and politicians don't want to stand up there and say the truth.. that it's going to hurt, it's going to take belt tightening on a personal and a corporate level as well as every level of government. (Yea, they say it, then they flaunt a bill loaded with pork and the average cynical American like me looks at the bill and says, where is the government tightening it's belt?) Imagine the politician that stands and says, "You elected me for the next 4 years (or 6 years) and we're going to fix this problem but for my entire term, things are going to be hard, the payoff will likely be after I'm out of office because I didn't give you what you wanted, quick fixes and band-aids for your problems which aren't really fixing problems, just prolonging them... but thanks for voting for me and I hope you vote for me when I run again." Now some people may sit here and SAY they would vote for that person, but when the guy at the other podium is promising immediate recovery by throwing money at the problem where YOU don't have to suffer... it wouldn't even be close.
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SO many folks are condeming these recent efforts to get a spending bill passed that the President says will stimulate the economy..
I haven't a clue if that will work which is why I'm neither yelling for it or against it. I'm probably as confused by it as any normal citizen..
It will help, it will do exactly what I described above, it will prolong the inevitable. It will show short term goals and people will get jobs on projects funded by this bill.. and they will be happy and their friends will be happy for them and the shop keepers where these people shop will be happy because they'll be spending money again and the government will be happy because all of this money movement creates tax revenue.. and the world will be a happy place.. until the debt comes due and our kids or grandkids or great grandkids are 10 times deeper than we are right now... I will give President Clinton credit for the following line which he said just a couple years ago but apparently his own party wasn't even listening, "If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing you do is stop digging." But we just keep digging, I'm sure prosperity is down there somewhere... 
yebat' Putin
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Cut taxes - not some $500 per person or $1000 per couple, especially when you give that money to people that don't PAY taxes (to me, that's called welfare. To some, it's called financial redistribution. To all, it should be called BS)
Amen. 
And I agree with the rest of your post too.
#gmstrong
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Hey Arch,, I know you must know where to get the information I need to enlighten myself on this spending bill,,
Do you know where the info is where it's broken down as to what will be spent on what?
I'll try to undelete it. In other words, I'll try to bring it back up. I do know someone posted the site on one of these threads. It was about 650 pages long. I'll get you some links.
In the mean time, here's just a bit.
http://www.cnycentral.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=256228
Tell me what stimulus that will have.
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Hey Arch,, I know you must know where to get the information I need to enlighten myself on this spending bill,,
Do you know where the info is where it's broken down as to what will be spent on what?
Here's a bit more for you.
http://www.washingtonwatch.com/blog/2009/01/18/stimulus-bill-text/
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Hey Arch,, I know you must know where to get the information I need to enlighten myself on this spending bill,,
Do you know where the info is where it's broken down as to what will be spent on what?
Here's 258 pages, if you'd care to read them. (if you do, you're one step ahead of any member of the House)
http://appropriations.house.gov/pdf/RecoveryBill01-15-09.pdf
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Hey Arch,, I know you must know where to get the information I need to enlighten myself on this spending bill,,
Do you know where the info is where it's broken down as to what will be spent on what?
Here's a link that will give you the full 647 pages of the bill.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/24/house-stimulus-bill-full_n_160569.html
I'd be curious as to what your thoughts are on most of the item in there are.............precisely, how will most of the money being voted being spent actually "stimulate" the economy.
Get back to me in 2 weeks, cause that's about how long it will take you to read everything. (again, if you read everything, you go to the front of the line as far as congress is concerned, cause I can guarantee no congress person has read it all)
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I agree that was a huge part of it... So who are you saying is at fault? The banks for creating bad loan programs or the government for allowing them (actually encouraging them) to do it?
The horses got out of the barn so who is the SOB that left the door open... Doesn't matter.. what matters now is that we gotta get the horse back in the barn.. but if you really must know who I blame,,,, I'll tell you, Politicians that allowed deregulation. If Dems started it, they they take the blame for starting it... if when in power the Republicans didn't change it, then they share equal blame in my eyes. Works for me in reverse as well,
Point is, they are public servants and they didn't serve us very well.
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Ok, this partially answers my previous question. But I don't think government merely took their eyes off of it, I think they actually PUSHED THEM down this road...
You bet they did,, but what I think politicos didn't anticipate was the Scumbag factor. Reviewing things on a regular basis may have stopped it in it's tracks in time to curb the problem.
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Where was the realtor, where was the loan officier, where was the loan processor... how come someone didn't say,, dude, you can't afford this house?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When I asked that question, I already knew the answer...MONEY.. they are all commissioned.. as a result, morality, commen sense, right minded thinking goes out the window... it's the money.
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The problem is that the hole we are in.. this problem, isn't going to be cured or even remotely fixed in one election cycle and politicians don't want to stand up there and say the truth.. that it's going to hurt, it's going to take belt tightening on a personal and a corporate level as well as every level of government.
Actually, I think that's all they've been saying.. I think they understand the problem, they just don't agree on the solution.
Its so political that I'm questioning if any solution that is Real and without stupid pork will get approved.
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It will help, it will do exactly what I described above, it will prolong the inevitable. It will show short term goals and people will get jobs on projects funded by this bill.. and they will be happy and their friends will be happy for them and the shop keepers where these people shop will be happy because they'll be spending money again and the government will be happy because all of this money movement creates tax revenue.. and the world will be a happy place..
if and I say IF it would actually work that way, then I'm for it as long as there is a long term plan on how to deal with the debt. one that also allows for long term economic growth that will undoubtly assist in debt reduction.'
I'm not gonna lie to you, I don't know what that is, but we have world class economists that should have a clue..
But that's just part of the problem,,, the need to be able to sell it to the people.... that might be a problem...
even I, who voted for Obama, am a bit leery over this thing..
But only because I've not seen a line by line plan for te use of this money.
I only have the word of those that's seen it,,, and I'm not one of them. If you got a copy,, i'd love to read it.
Back to this port issue... look, I understand that to keep getting reelected to office, politicians need to bring federal dollars home to bolster thier local economy.. I get that and I'm sure that by eliminating pork completely will make more than a few folks upset.'
But more than at any time in my life time, we are in unusual circumestances that require unusual actions.
it's time to stop pork,,, get it out completely..
President Obama promised a line by line review of the fed budget.... well, I'd like him to apply the same logic to this stimulus backage..
Will he? dunno.. But it's the right thing to do..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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The horses got out of the barn so who is the SOB that left the door open... Doesn't matter.. what matters now is that we gotta get the horse back in the barn.. but if you really must know who I blame,,,, I'll tell you, Politicians that allowed deregulation. If Dems started it, they they take the blame for starting it... if when in power the Republicans didn't change it, then they share equal blame in my eyes. Works for me in reverse as well,
Point is, they are public servants and they didn't serve us very well.
Wasn't really talking about Dems and Reps, just banks vs politicians in general... but I think it does matter how the horse got out of the barn because if doesn't do any good to get the horse back in the barn if the locks broke and we don't fix it.
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The problem is that the hole we are in.. this problem, isn't going to be cured or even remotely fixed in one election cycle and politicians don't want to stand up there and say the truth.. that it's going to hurt, it's going to take belt tightening on a personal and a corporate level as well as every level of government.
Actually, I think that's all they've been saying.. I think they understand the problem, they just don't agree on the solution.
Its so political that I'm questioning if any solution that is Real and without stupid pork will get approved.
Who have they said is going to suffer? The poor? The poor aren't going to suffer, they've been promised tax refunds on money they never paid, good jobs, better healthcare and educations... the middle class? They've been promised tax cuts, stimulus checks, better high paying jobs making hybrid cars, and a government that is going to protect them from evil business... the corporations? Well the government just keeps writing them big check after big check after big check, promises to create jobs for them, train the workforce for them, and expand trade to all of the lovely countries around the world.... No, the only group of people who have been told they are going to suffer are the rich (the top 2%), their taxes are going up and they aren't allowed to be mean any more.
Look, I will give you that they have said it could get worse before it gets better... but they aren't saying that we should do that voluntarily to promote a better long term outcome, they're saying that because they can't figure out how to stop the short term bleeding. And that is what they are hoping this $900B pig infested bill is going to do, stop the short term bleeding.
The problem is that we have short term memories and once we aren't suffering any more, we'll be on to something else. Do you think people will voluntarily live simpler to keep their debt down? Do you think the government is going to cut stupid spending and reduce the size of government? Do you think corporations are going to stop lavishing HUGE compensation packages on execs even if they suck? No, none of that is going to happen. Once we get out of the woods, the trees will be behind us and we will focus again on the fields ahead acting like we never were in the woods... that's just what we do.... When is the last time you read an article or heard people getting flustered about energy independence? Yea, about the time gas prices passed back under $3.00...
yebat' Putin
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I agree Arch.....I would pass a law that required no bill could submitted that couldn't be written on less than 100 pages.
If you can't get it done in 99 pages, you are putting way too much in a bill.
I do have the ability to read and retain, but I can't read that and act fast as some are wanting done. I am a fast reader and retain a high percentage
Too much BS and not enough common sense.
If you can't get it done in 100 pages, you are trying to hide something.
This thing needs to be several bills, with 5-6 different votes.
Someone is trying to rob us....the Great Train Robbery is nothing next to what is happening right now.
I Swear to God....I think forces are trying to bankrupt us to the point we will never be free again.
Most people don't even know how much a trillion dollars is...the people who vote for this are traitors.
JMO
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Two pages is too big. We had that rule in the Corps,... Of course, none of us could read or spell,....
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It doesn't take that much paper to explain being a Marine.
Be loyal to the Corps, and love the United States of America.
Shoot anyone or blow up anything that is contrary to the above when told to do so.
Same goes for the Army, Navy, or Air Force.
It was good to be an American.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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but I think it does matter how the horse got out of the barn because if doesn't do any good to get the horse back in the barn if the locks broke and we don't fix it.
You know what DC,, upon further review, you are probably right.. what I was attempting to do was not lay blame on anyone person or party.. and I think my attempt backfired a little.. What I wanted to express is that moving forward seems more important than assessing blame..
But yeah, knowing what caused it would be rather handy in making sure it doesn't happen again.. I see your point.
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Who have they said is going to suffer? The poor? The poor aren't going to suffer, they've been promised tax refunds on money they never paid, good jobs, better healthcare and educations... the middle class?
Well, I don't think I've heard anyone outline who will suffer and who will not,, But I think in general, we all will.. its a question of degree however.
A guy with major bucks may get hurt,, by his standards.. but not by mine. Guys got 10 million in safe mode,, but used to have 18... Geez, I feel for the guy,, but he's still got 10.. not exactly ready to move under the detroit superior bridge in a fridge box ya know..
A a guy living paycheck to paycheck,, that man can't afford to lose a nickel.. again, its al a matter of degrees.
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but they aren't saying that we should do that voluntarily to promote a better long term outcome, they're saying that because they can't figure out how to stop the short term bleeding.
to be perfectly honest,, I'm not sure they know what to tell us.. if they say preserve cash, work hard.. that's all well and good.. But what they really want us to do is spend money...see how it can get contridictory in a hurry?
Anyway, I don't believe you and I can fix this problem.. All we can do is do our best to protect our familes and keep food on the table.. be conservative,,,, and above all, remain moral and upstanding.. if we go down doing that, then good lord man,, it's over.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Most people don't even know how much a trillion dollars is...
Well let me help explain it.. if you took fresh new one hundred dollar bills and stacked them on top of each other...
You would get to a billion dollars at about 407 feet, roughly the height of a 29 story building...
You would get 100 billion dollars at about 7.7 miles which is in the troposhpere, the outer atmosphere....
And you would get to 1 trillion dollars at 77.14 miles from earth....
So the answer is, a stack of fresh one hundred dollar bills stacked over 77 miles high.
yebat' Putin
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But yeah, knowing what caused it would be rather handy in making sure it doesn't happen again.
Stupidity and a lack of common sense caused it.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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A guy with major bucks may get hurt,, by his standards.. but not by mine. Guys got 10 million in safe mode,, but used to have 18... Geez, I feel for the guy,, but he's still got 10.. not exactly ready to move under the detroit superior bridge in a fridge box ya know..
A a guy living paycheck to paycheck,, that man can't afford to lose a nickel.. again, its al a matter of degrees.
I don't have a million dollars, let alone 18 million.
I've watched my/our retirement funds drop. To the point where I don't see retirement as something I'll ever achieve. I'm as okay with that as a person can be - I mean, lets face it, no one wants to see $100,000 turn into $52,000, right?
Why are you okay with watching a guy that was worth $18 million turn into a guy that's worth $10 million?
How about this: a guy that used to have $100,000 in retirement funds, but now has $52,000. You okay with that?
How about that same guy that has seen his income decrease 2 fold? You okay with that? You okay with taxing the "haves" in order to placate the "have nots"?
Won't be long till the haves have their money stowed away, and the have nots will be screwed, and the "used to have enough to pay the bills" will get pissed off.
Don't give me a $1000 check (the same check given to people that don't work, and work and don't pay taxes).and call it "stimulus"
I feel sorry for Pres. Obama. He didn't cause this mess - this mess goes all the way back to when gov't. decided they could support everyone.
Sad thing is, we are at a point in time where you need to take cakre of yourself and family by YOURSELF.
Like it or not, we are at a point where the more gov't. spends, the deeper and harder the screwing will be. At times, I wonder if there aren't some politicians that look forward to having more and more people on the gov't. dole
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Maybe this will help answer some of your "what about the hiring" questions U have in regards to the press ...
The jobs problem you don't know about
The sharp jump in layoffs gets all the attention, but it's the lack of hiring and job openings that pose greater risks for the labor market and economy.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- January was one of the worst months for layoffs ever, with nearly a quarter million job cut announcements grabbing headlines.
But the real problem in the U.S. labor market today isn't layoffs. It's a hiring freeze that is gripping most work places -- and has not gotten nearly as much attention as the job cuts.
"The hiring rate has caved. That's why the job market is as bad as it is," said Mark Zandi, chief economist with Moody's Economy.com. "Given this low hiring rate, unemployment would still rise even if layoffs were falling."
The government's key employment report, due Friday morning, doesn't detail hiring and job openings. It instead gives overall change in the number of workers on U.S. payrolls.
It's expected to be another terrible number; economists surveyed by Briefing.com forecast a net loss of 540,000 in January, which follows the 524,000 loss in December. The unemployment rate is forecast to rise to 7.5% from 7.2%, which would be a 16-year high.
But since 2000, the Labor Department has also tracked hiring, job openings and layoffs. And the most recent readings on those statistics show that the level of hiring and job openings has actually tumbled more than layoffs have soared.
Through November, the number of layoffs was up 17% from year-earlier levels. But the amount of workers who were hired during November was down 26%, and the number of job openings tumbled 30%.
While layoffs are likely up from the November levels, the hit to hiring has also gotten much more severe, according to experts. And that means that once people do lose their job, it's going to be even tougher to find a new one.
The Conference Board's tracking of online job listings shows a decline of more than 1 million listings in the last two months alone. That's a 23% decline in postings since November. The weakness in job postings is widespread, with only two states, North Dakota and Wyoming, having fewer unemployed people than advertised job openings.
During the last recession in 2001, there was not nearly as sharp a drop in hiring and job openings. In fact, the hiring and job opening rates, which compare new hires and openings to the overall number of workers, are both at their lowest level on record.
And economists say that even if the number of layoffs peaks soon, the pace of hiring and job openings may remain soft for months to come.
"The issue of hiring is often overlooked," said Gad Levanon, senior economist for The Conference Board. "But it's the key to the labor market. In the last recession, layoffs reached their peak in late 2001. But hiring didn't reach its lowest level until 2003, and that's when the job losses finally ended."
Andrew Reina, practice director for job placement firm Ajilon Finance Solutions, said hiring freezes are now the rule at most companies.
"A lot of our clients are looking at hiring freezes, certainly in the short term, and most likely through the first half of this year," he said.
Economist Robert Brusca of FAO Economics added that hiring freezes are an easier way for many companies to reduce work forces than layoffs, since even in bad times people will leave companies on their own.
And he said the hiring freezes won't end until companies have some confidence that the economy and demand for their products are ready to turn around.
"It's pretty clear that fear is running the show right now," he said
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,558
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,558 |
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Why are you okay with watching a guy that was worth $18 million turn into a guy that's worth $10 million?
who the hell said I was ok with it... when did you hear me say that.. Guys got 10 mill,, he's gonna keep eating and he's going to keep the roof over his head.
The guy living paycheck to paycheck is just flat out screwed..
I feel bad for both of these people.. I really do,, But by degree.
Same with you, losing 48k of your savings sucks and I feel awful for you Arch.. but gees,, again, I feel worse for you than I do for the guy with 10 mill and I fill worse for the guy with NOTHING than I do for you.
Do you get it now,, it's a matter of degree.. I thought I made that perfectly clear.. I guess not.
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How about that same guy that has seen his income decrease 2 fold? You okay with that? You okay with taxing the "haves" in order to placate the "have nots"?
I'm that guy and it sucks.., where the hell did you get the impression I'm ok wtih any of this.., why, because I talked about degrees.... geesh.
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Sad thing is, we are at a point in time where you need to take cakre of yourself and family by YOURSELF.
well, maybe I'm the odd guy in the bunch, but I thought that's always the way it was... geesh, call me crazy,, you mean I could have had others take care of me and I didn't know it?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,558
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,558 |
Quote:
And he said the hiring freezes won't end until companies have some confidence that the economy and demand for their products are ready to turn around.
"It's pretty clear that fear is running the show right now," he said
Sounds about right to me. My largest customer told me last week that there is a trickleing in of new business for 2009.. it may be a signal to a return to more normal business levels... but until they see that current staff is stretched to maximum levels, they intend to stay the course.. hiring freeze.
I live and breath the job market everyday,, that's the business I'm in. I make hundreds of calls a week to companies trying to find openings for those I have on layoff.. it's a challenge.. and somewhere in there, I still have to find a way to keep making a living for myself and family.. tough job today.
My life is really in a little bit of turmoil,, but compared to some folks, I'm doing fine. I guess it's just a matter of what it looks like from where you stand.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum If this doesn't prove fear is our
enemy, nothing does
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