DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mangini reaching out to disgruntled Browns DT Rogers

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Yep,..and we should run him out of town just like we did Belicheck.

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Nope, never said that. If he can bring us a winner I don't have a problem with how he does it, short of some really outrageous behavior.

I just think that, so far, I have not seen anything out of EM that leads me to believe that's going to happen. I admit it's early in his tenure and to make any solid judgements is probably foolhardy. But initial impressions are important. And, at least with me, that initial impression is less than favorable.

Secondly, fans aren't gonna drive anyone out of town alone. If Belichick hadn't been an out and out ass with everyone he met and had been a winner back then he'd still be the HC. Albeit in Baltimore.

I think that until we know what weight Rogers is and what weight they wanted him to come in at, it's tough to really opine one way or the other. But, I'm still of the mindset that when your coach tells you to do something, you do it.

For example, what if they wanted Rogers at 350, and he was at 360. Let's say he starts really watching what he's eating, working out, and come March, he's down to 353 or 352. If Mangini is still PO'd at that point, then maybe it's Mangini who has the problem. But, maybe Mangini would realize that Rogers is trying his best and let him still participate.

But, what if Rogers has just completely let himself go and is up at 380 or 390. Mangini says "I want you at 350 in March" and Rogers realizes that he screwed up and he couldn't possibly get down that low. So, he complains and says he feels "disrespected."

Now, I'm not saying any of this is true or false. It makes just as much sense as any of the other theories floating out there.

JMHO

Mangini: You need to fix this.... pat his head, rub his belly,... whatever.. just get this thing fixed. Kokinis.... you might help a little too.

He never talked to Rogers telling him what he wanted...I´m still astonished that guys on here are ok with players being treated the way they NEVER would like to be treated in a workplace...

Imagine you work for a company, you were their top dog last year...you get a new boss who passed by you twice, has his office nearby your workplace and the 1st thing you get from him AFTER 2 months is a "mandate" to do this and that...yeah, you would be completely ok with that treatment

Mangini DEMANDS something before he even introduced himself and looking ONCE in your eyes...cmon, how poor is THAT?

I never said I would be "ok" with it. Hell, I'd probably feel disrespected, too. But I don't think the first thing I'd say to the boss is "you disrespected me, let me out of my contract."

See, it's the reaction that's different.

Ding! ding! ding! ding! ding! we have a winner!

Some will always side with the coach and always blame the player, they don't want to beleive that something like disrespect could "matter".

Well, if your the best salesman in your company, one of the top 3 in your profession, and you get a new CEO/VP, who has proven NOTHING, and he doesn't speak to you, when your in the same room?

Shaun has earned some respect, and, if this is ALL about money, why not do what every player does and say: "Hey, I made the probowl, i'm one of the top 3 DT's in the league and I want more money"

This isn't just about the money, it is about something EM has done. If it wasn't, EM would not have LIED and said he DIDNT SEE Shaun at the sports banquet. I thought EM was all character?

Shaun needs to grow up alittle and be the bigger man, and EM needs to get a life and realize HE'S NOT BILL BELLICHICK. So stop acting like an ass, and meet with your players and give some courteous respect to them.

"If anyone needs to lose more than 10 pounds in two weeks, I hope the they got notice of this long before today."

I'm almost certain that Rogers had notice of this prior to going to the Pro-Bowl. After all this is where in back tracking we can ASSume that Mangini was aware of Rogers grumbling...and the posturing of the Snubs is just that. Its about two things.

The Weight thing...this has always been a issue with Rogers and his coaches and I think he takes it very personal.

The Haynesworth thing...100-115 mil with 40+ guaranteed. This is the Side Bar that makes it more positive for Rogers to push the buttons.

But the weight thing I'm sure is the Active Issue here. And he grumbled about it in Early February...where he would have 4 weeks + to get to his weight.

His problem was - WHY DOES THIS RULE PERTAIN TO ME!!! I AM SPECIAL.

That is why Mangini asked for Rogers to speak to Jenkins at the Pro-Bowl.

He probably heard stuff he didn't want to hear...Like - Hey, just do what he asks as his team requirements are not unattainable if you do that he is great - but if you put yourself ABOVE THE TEAM that will not go over on Mangini.

So instead of working on his weight for the past 2 weeks he's been GRIPING and STEWING.

Hey I think they raised the CAP BAR so we have climbed well over 20 mil in space.

If we traded Rogers we would take a big hit but the Redskins just got Haynesworth...if the Eagles wish to trade one of their first rounders PLUS MORE to keep up with the Redskins??? You know we will have to get over it. As good as Rogers played we can survive and there is life after Rogers. Add Raji as a possible at #5. Corey Williams is a darn good DLman and could take over that NT or we go with a tandem of Shaun Smith and Rubin. There would be life after Rogers and we would have the Eagles 1st rounder and maybe 3rd.

We would live.

JMHO - but those posturing that this is Mangini's fault I find INCREDULOUS...not OPINION and yes there is a difference.

How many really good D Linemen did we have last year? Yeah, that's what I thought. The rest were injured and sucking air.

So you have one good player, one who gets it, and the rest are marginal. Do you start off playing favorites when you know you're going to have to hammer the guys hard? Rogers is a pro, he knows what it takes to compete and stay on the field. He's the least of our worries.

The guy is wanting a bigger payday, don't we all? That's all this is. Does he risk staying away now and being regarded as overweight and unmotivated? For a guy with a question mark on his career so far and playing on a lousy defensive team that would be very risky indeed.

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Shaun needs to grow up alittle and be the bigger man, and EM needs to get a life and realize HE'S NOT BILL BELLICHICK. So stop acting like an ass, and meet with your players and give some courteous respect to them.

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Even if Rogers' reaction is seen as being wrong by some fans that believe a coach is "the dictator" of the team...let the feeling of being disrespected by the HC spread to a few more players and the Browns and Mangini have internal problems that could last a long time.

Players simply playing for a paycheck...something like the Raiders do.

Mangini is going to find out that Randy Lerner does not like this kind of publicity especially if it was avoidable by simply extending a welcome to one of your "pro bowl" players.

We don't have many, you know?...pro bowlers !

Time for Mangini and Rogers to head to Lerner's room where everyone "mans up" and comes to an understanding. Time for both to put the franchise first and not their egos.

If Mangini takes the hardass approach, he might as well plan on a complete overhaul of our roster...back to a 5 yr plan instead of a 2 or 3 yr plan...jmho...mac

If we traded Rogers we would take a big hit but the Redskins just got Haynesworth...if the Eagles wish to trade one of their first rounders PLUS MORE to keep up with the Redskins??? You know we will have to get over it.
Ugh..they'd have to give a ton for that deal..I feel if he's going to be a problem all season you have to do it now...but how can you predict he'll be a malcontent all year?
The way it seems right now, the fence may not be mended..and if he really really wants out, he won't perform at pro bowl levels..

And any rookie NT like B.J. would probably get ate up this season..and what if he was taken before we pick?? ....
The problem is there's aren't a bunch of NT's in this draft and that worries me..other wise..I 'd say ship him out..
Now in thinking of this..the team has every right to impose a weight limit..yet this whole thing could have been handled better..so I'm not absolving either party..

Little by little the roster will be reconstructed..

Where is your link that Mangini "LIED"? Oh, that's right, you're making things up and stating them as fact again.

"The problem is there's aren't a bunch of NT's in this draft and that worries me."

Just what draft does? And actually a lot of later round guys as in the 2nd or 3rd options for NT are actually on our team. Louis Leonard 330 lbs. Rubin 330 lbs. Both talked a lot on this board for draft answers to the NT situation.

We also have Shaun Smith who we decided to say what is in the past is in the past and his days with Mangini starts now.

As good as Rogers was...as much as I really really liked him and how special he is for us as a NT. He has proven why he cannot be a guy to build a D around. He is unstable...there must be life after Rogers.

Option #1 has to smooth this over - at least with a mutual agreement to start anew and give it a one year trial and if not then we will Cow Tow to his demands of a trade in 2010. This of course has to be option #1 Rogers is worth the attempt and hopefully they will be able to sit down cause I know Mangini has asked to so on his end he's willing to talk. Dictators don't talk...they line up guys and shoot them.

All we have heard was this team is close all it needs is Discipline, Discipline, Discipline...here is the first challenge to that discipline. How far will it go. If Rogers doesn't sit down and at listen talk with Mangini...then this has nothing to do with the reasons being reported. There is no disrespect beyond a point of no return as Rogers camp is putting out there to the Sports Media.

The stickler is the CAP HIT in 09 if we trade him...if not I wouldn't be as kind as Mangini and work out a trade ASSuming Rogers would be a very hot commodity.

I would go after Canty and move Shaun Smith to NT with Rubin in the rotation.
So we go into long term action with a young DE Canty, NT Smith/Rubin n Long Term signed DE Corey Williams (who is a lot better than most on this board think)

Would Rogers be missed...sure but we would get over it. ANY Team who can't get over one player is simply not a good team.

But I would like the idea of having 2 first rounders, #36 and a 3rd and our early 4th round pick.

But the key here is the Cap hit for 2009...now I heard the Cap Bar was raised? We were close to 20 mil...how much was it raised? Would it be about what we would take as a hit with Rogers?

JMHO - Option #1...get him back on track at least for the next season.
Option #2...trade him but get his worth.

We'll live and who knows if this won't be the best thing for us. As great as Rogers is on the field...this also has been his NEGATIVE.

How do you smooth over something like this???

It's a bogus claim by a guy who as you say, is unstable.

Maybe he wanted to play for Romeo?
Maybe he has a inflated self worth?
Maybe he doesn't want to play for Mangini?

Whatever it is, I don't think it is something that can be smoothed over unless Rogers does the smoothing.

Maybe the whole thing has been blown way out of proportion

Just what draft does? And actually a lot of later round guys as in the 2nd or 3rd options for NT are actually on our team. Louis Leonard 330 lbs. Rubin 330 lbs. Both talked a lot on this board for draft answers to the NT situation.

We also have Shaun Smith who we decided to say what is in the past is in the past and his days with Mangini starts now.

Yeah..and if Rodgers was traded, it would also mean that the Browns would have to get a serious upgrade at MLB...even more so now.

Option #1 has to smooth this over - at least with a mutual agreement to start anew and give it a one year trial and if not then we will Cow Tow to his demands of a trade in 2010. This of course has to be option #1 Rogers is worth the attempt and hopefully they will be able to sit down cause I know Mangini has asked to so on his end he's willing to talk. Dictators don't talk...they line up guys and shoot them.

And knowing just how inmature Rodgers is, would he still have resentment in him and be unwilling to play like he did last year?
Thats rhetorical....because we don't know, but I speculate he won't give it all..

The stickler is the CAP HIT in 09 if we trade him
Vs the up and down production he may give....

I would go after Canty and move Shaun Smith to NT with Rubin in the rotation.
So we go into long term action with a young DE Canty, NT Smith/Rubin n Long Term signed DE Corey Williams (who is a lot better than most on this board think)

I agree..and I also think you're in the mode to deal him and let the chips fall where they may.

"How do you smooth over something like this?"

Well I actually went into detail on what that meant to me and hopefully answered your question. I know I didn't type enough in my opinions I have to be more detailed in those opinions from now on

In my eyes at least to the point that we can start over on an agreed format to let Mangini EARN his respect and if that is not achieved - accomodate him next year.

"Whatever it is, I don't think it is something that can be smoothed over unless Rogers does the smoothing."

Oh without a doubt its all in Rogers hands...always was - if it was actually something that Mangini did then he could possibly rectify it. But he did nothing...absolutely nothing to warrant this reaction. Its all in the HEAD of Rogers. So will be the solution.

But Mangini right away want to arrange a sit down so that the Chance of input by Mangini to possibly set a path where Rogers could possibly become satisfied to work with the Team - even on a trial basis for 2009. Then it is at least possibly to be "smoothed" over as a Option #1.

In KC in a similar case face to face though Haley n Pioli refused to schedule a SIT DOWN with their PRO-BOWL OG.

JMHO - Its in Rogers hands to SMOOTH it over but at least Mangini is giving it a shot to convince him to do so.

Mac, that's a great strategy....if Mangini did anything wrong. Otherwise, you are cowtowing to a player and pampering him by blaming yoruself for his issues. As a leader and a coach, you have to do that to an extent, but not to the point of taking all the blame for someone else's issues. If he does, then Rogers, with his immaturity, could just as well tell his teammates that Gini kissed his butt and he got what he wanted. That would destroy any leadership or respect that is needed to be successful. It's not as "easy" as you state. You have everyone else on the roster looking at this situation, too. You have to weigh how it will affect all of them and how they view you. It could lead to what you say, but could also go the opposite direction.

I agree that Gini should meet with Rogers. In fact, he said months ago he would meet with ALL the players individually in March. Gini should apologize for any miscommunication and apologize if Rogers felt disrespected and explain the circumstances. Then it's up to Rogers to either realize he blew things out of proportion and didn't understand what was going on or continue to be immature (or continue to want a Haynesworth contract which IMO is the real impetus for this).

I'm with U and hound on this one ... its mind boggling to me how so many people have just backed one side or the other on this with very very little actual info ... who the hell knows what happend here .... here is what we do know ...

1. Rogers had a GREAT year last year ...
2. Rogers is a whack job with a history of being disgruntled and lazy ...
3. Rogers is obviously jealous over Albert ...

so we have a very unstable, jealous guy who also happens to be a great player ... top 3 at his position ....

so him being a jerk here is totally within the realm of possibility ... BUT on the other side of the aisle we have ...

1. A New HC who has not once but twice walked by him and not even glanced at him ...
2. when made aware this was a problem he APPEARANTLY still decided not to pick up the phone and try and talk to him ...

so we have very little info on him other than he CRAPPED ON HIM TWICE ... weather thats right of Rogers or not ... thats what he did ..

If Jeannie has not made any contact with any of our players ... HES AN IDIOT ... its called getting off on the right foot people .. its called COMMON COURTESY ...

I mean whats your thought proccess here .... I want to get these guys to play for me .. hmmmm .. a good approach would be to not take 5 minutes max out for each of them to introduce myself and let them know what to epxect during the transition period and let them know when the first "meeting" will be .. Naaaaaaaa .... I'm da man ... who cares if it rubs them the wrong way ...

just cause i need them more than they need me don't mean much ...

I have no clue what happend ... all I know is Rogers is an UNSTABBLE JERK and always has been .. and if Jeannie can't have a "special" rule and pick up the phone to call him PRE PRO BOWL we have a lil Napeolon on our hands .. and thats fine .. not a good style IMO but U have to do what works for U ... BUT he will never ever be able to co-exist with the PAMPERED ONE named Rogers ... so we best get rid of him now ..

SUMPTIN HAS TO CHANGE PEOPLE .... and it ain't going to be Rogers ... so we need to ship him and ship him now .. and were going to take it up the pooper on this one .. we will get nuttin near what he is worth .... and that is not a slam on Jeannie ... it just is what it is ..

let Rogers be someone elses head ache ...

I'll tell you what I do know, DIam, to add to what you said. Gini has talked to other players while they were in the facility....including DA and BQ. He hasn't shied away from introductions to others, either.

We all know that Gini explained himself publicly in a PC and also publicly lauded Rogers as a player and wished him well at the Pro Bowl. Now, it can be argued that he was wrong not to do the same things privately in a meeting with Rogers. It's also entirely possible that Gini thought that Rogers was a normal person not so sensiive and that a public show of support and explanation would be enough.

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I'm with U and hound on this one ... its mind boggling to me how so many people have just backed one side or the other on this with very very little actual info ... who the hell knows what happend here .... here is what we do know ...

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Why is it mind boggling? It happens every single time there is a hint of a dispute. I think I'll continue to wait and see how this plays out.

let Rogers be someone elses head ache ...
How bout that team known to take headaches...no not Dallas..the Raidas..

1. Rogers had a GREAT year last year ...
2. Rogers is a whack job with a history of being disgruntled and lazy ...
3. Rogers is obviously jealous over Albert ...

On most issues ; you and I are rarely to far apart .... This one is way different ...

#1 indisputable

# 2 History of being up and down ; whack job , I disagree

# 3 I haven't read that in the media , any where ???

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It's also entirely possible that Gini thought that Rogers was a normal person

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if he thought that based on Rogers past ... were in DEEPER TROUBLE than even Djangio thinks were in ...

guys been a whack job since year two in the league .. its no secret ...

GO head and trade Shaun Rogers so we can get BJ Raji.