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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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People forget about the stock market tanking right before Bush came in. If you add in what 911 could have done to the economy we were very lucky. The fact is we had growth under Bush for a large part of his presidency.
Bush is not solely to blame for what has happened to the financial collapse we are seeing. He did promote and expand home ownership plans that Clinton started. He also warned us about the problems with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The thing is when the Dems in Congress failed to act he should have been more forceful. He failed to use the bully pulpit.
We hear all these arguments about oversight and deregulation. These two things are not the same. Deregulation isn't always bad, but lack of over site is.
DC had it right when he said the reason Bush's numbers are so low. Us conservatives abandoned him because he failed to abide by our principals. Most of us on here are conservatives first. We may vote Republican, but that is only because they are close to what we believe in.
#gmstrong
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Dawg Talker
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Are you saying me personally? Or was the "you" in reference to Obama? 
There are no sacred cows.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Unemployment has hit the highest level since the 80s ......
I thought it was higher than that. I thought I heard it was the highest (percentage wise at least) since the 70's and the most reported new applicants since they started keeping track back in the 60's. Is there a different stat your talking about?
Either way it's high right now, and will might actually reach a double digit percentage, which is scary as heck.
There are no sacred cows.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
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I'm guessing that my feeling for him began to change in his 6th or early 7 year in office.
Then you made it farther than I did. I started to have grave concerns in about year 4 especially with his fiscal policies which I thought he would right that ship..... and my big campaign slogan for him in his second run was... he's NOT John F'n Kerry. 
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I will never contend that I know everything... nobody on here does.
Speak for yourself. 
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There is ALWAYS a faction that will want immediate results from a new adminstration.
Those are probably the ones most enamored with Obama... me, I want plans and actions that create long term sustainable results and that's NOT what I'm seeing. What I'm seeing is very expensive band-aids applied to a seething wound which may pacify some for a while but that are completely contradictory to long term viable success.
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So to that end, I'm doing the same thing I did with Bush,, I'm letting Obama make the moves he finds necessary and do the things he thinks are best for the country. That is NOT to say that I agree with every single move, But I intend to let it play out before I judge him and his actions.
Perhaps this is where we differ... if he's doing something I disagree with I'm going to speak up, write my congressman, make my voice heard... Your voice doesn't stop with your vote Daman... I hope and pray when I disagree with politicians that they're right and I'm wrong because in the end what I want is what's best for this country... but I can't sit passively by and watch a President make decisions which put us in a position which I think will result in a train wreck and then just wait and see how it plays out.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again, if both sides of the isle don't come together soon on a plan, then we are eading straight to hell and it won't be JUST obama that drove us there. (some will blame him anyway)
From what I've seen so far, there is no "both sides of the aisle"... there are the democrats who control everything, there are a few extremely left leaning republicans who will often side with them and then there are the republicans who won't win regardless... and from what I've seen from most republicans I'm not sure there plan is a whole lot better...
Daman we turned off the highway and onto the road to hell many decades ago and the hows and whys have been debated but the social programs of the 30s, taking us off the gold standard, the growing 12" thick tax code book that nobody understands and which taxes us no matter what we do, and quite a few other things all played HUGE rolls in it... since then it's been more about who is driving the car and how fast we're going than which direction we are actually heading.
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Republicans need to fight for what they think is right without all the Bull and the efforts to excite the masses into hysteria
It was Obama who said if the $800 Billion pork laden stimulus package wasn't passed within a few days by a bunch of people who hadn't read it that we would face catastrophe.. so please refrain from blaming the republicans for attempting to create hysteria....
IMHO, we might NEED a little hysteria right about now. Real hysteria (controlled hysteria if there is such a thing)... perhaps a better term is outrage....
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Democrats have to put the power they have aside as well.. Dems have to stop just pushing things through without regard to what the other side is saying.
Can't honestly say I blame them, republicans did it to them.. of course dems did it before that and republicans before that.. who knows when it really started, my guess would be 1776 or so.... but you are right, until it stops, we aren't going to get anywhere.
My big problem is that republicans and democrats have become virtually indistinguishable. They aren't fighting about big picture things like how to restore this country to solid footing, they are arguing more about what to spend the money on... I mean the republicans come up with a list of "pork" in the package.. yea, economic responsibility... oh wait, what they listed as pork amounted to about 1.2% of an $800 Billion package... that's not reform, that's not a strong objecting opinion, that's not a stand for fiscal responibility.... that's pandering to your base to try to make them THINK you are taking a stand.
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They need to put aside thier differences and get the job done right. Until they start to act like partners,, this isn't gonna work.
They need to punt. I'm pretty convinced that there is not a single person in any one of the 500+ elected officials chairs (from the most junior congressman right up to Barrack Obama) that really understands how we got here or how to fix it. I'm not saying that I really do either but the one thing I can guarantee you is this... we are going to hear about unregulated banks and we are going to hear about irresponsible mortgage companies and homeowners, we are going to hear about tweaking taxes up or down a percent here or a percent there, we are going to hear about tossing trillions of dollars into the economy, we are going to hear about job losses, etc... what we are not going to hear about is bloated ineffective social programs that need stripped to the bone if not eliminated, we are not going to hear about personal sacrifice (except for the top 2% who will have to shell out a few dollars in taxes), we are not going to hear about the 70 years of waste and poor decision making that got us here. We are going to hear about band-aids.... we are not going to hear about Andrew Jackson...
yebat' Putin
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Are you saying me personally? Or was the "you" in reference to Obama?
"You" meaning him, of course. 
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
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My big problem is that republicans and democrats have become virtually indistinguishable.
It's really alarming how many people are willing to argue this point.
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They need to punt. I'm pretty convinced that there is not a single person in any one of the 500+ elected officials chairs (from the most junior congressman right up to Barrack Obama) that really understands how we got here or how to fix it. I'm not saying that I really do either but the one thing I can guarantee you is this... we are going to hear about unregulated banks and we are going to hear about irresponsible mortgage companies and homeowners, we are going to hear about tweaking taxes up or down a percent here or a percent there, we are going to hear about tossing trillions of dollars into the economy, we are going to hear about job losses, etc... what we are not going to hear about is bloated ineffective social programs that need stripped to the bone if not eliminated, we are not going to hear about personal sacrifice (except for the top 2% who will have to shell out a few dollars in taxes), we are not going to hear about the 70 years of waste and poor decision making that got us here. We are going to hear about band-aids.... we are not going to hear about Andrew Jackson...
Word, G.
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Legend
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OP
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
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There is ALWAYS a faction that will want immediate results from a new adminstration.
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Those are probably the ones most enamored with Obama...
Actually, I was thinking just the opposite. It seems that those that are Least enamored with Obama are the ones that want immediate results...
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I want plans and actions that create long term sustainable results and that's NOT what I'm seeing. What I'm seeing is very expensive band-aids applied to a seething wound which may pacify some for a while but that are completely contradictory to long term viable success
I kinda see some of that as well. The difference between us is that I'm willing to wait and see rather than judge it now. It's kinda like telling the chef that his soup isn't any good before it's had anytime to cook fully.
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Your voice doesn't stop with your vote Daman...
I understand that and agree. But again, you gotta let the soup cook a little before you knock the chef.. the man has been the president for 37 days. He hasn't even had time to put all the ingredients into the soup pot yet.
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From what I've seen so far, there is no "both sides of the aisle"... there are the democrats who control everything, there are a few extremely left leaning republicans who will often side with them and then there are the republicans who won't win regardless..
As I said, the Dems have this power, they have a choice, they can run roughshod over all things they disagree with or they can play as a team. So far, I see far too much use of power to just ram things through... But I also see nothing but condemnation coming from the other side. I see nothing new except the same ole same ole stuff,..
The republicans are, IMO, in a mess. Total mess. So just like the Dems are pushing thier agenda too much without the best for you and me in mind, the Reps aren't exactly giving anyone any new ideas to ponder either.
There has to be give and take.. FROM BOTH.
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It was Obama who said if the $800 Billion pork laden stimulus package wasn't passed within a few days by a bunch of people who hadn't read it that we would face catastrophe.. so please refrain from blaming the republicans for attempting to create hysteria....
Come on DC,, the same thing happened in October for 700 billion back then, the difference being, nobody made the recipients accountable for how they are using it. at least now there is the appearance of accountability. Time will tell if it's real or just perceived.
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Can't honestly say I blame them, republicans did it to them.. of course dems did it before that and republicans before that..
I don't care which came first, the chicken or the egg. Makes little difference to me at all.. it's time the games stop and the work begins. I DO blame the Dems for not recognizing the error of the OLD ways.. it's time to stop it. Someone has to and if Obama really means it when he says he wants help from the republicans, then he needs to reign in his Democratic buddies...
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My big problem is that republicans and democrats have become virtually indistinguishable.
lol yes, in some cases, that is so true.. very true. you go on to talk a lot about pork in the rest of that paragraph of yours.. THERE IS NO ROOM FOR PORK.... NONE.
Both sides need to come to a firm grip of that.
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They need to punt. I'm convinced that there is not a single person in any one of the 500+ elected officials chairs (from the most junior congressman right up to Barrack Obama) that really understands how we got here or how to fix it.
Bickering, acting like little children, pandering to the media, spreading false or misleading information... all tactics used by both sides and as long as that way of doing business exists, there will not be real progress.
Sorry about all the food analogies,, my dinner is almost done and I'm starving....LOL food is on my mind I guess. 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,224 |
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Are you saying me personally? Or was the "you" in reference to Obama?
"You" meaning him, of course.
Gotcha, thanks for clearing that up. 
There are no sacred cows.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,217 |
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Now it seems that as long as Obama just appears to be marginally better than Bush
Well, better is "better" no matter how you quantify it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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