DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns trade Winslow

Give me a link where it is reported we are shopping BE??? I don't mean a link with some sports writer SPECULATING we might be interested in moving BE, but an actual report of us shopping him. Like I said earlier, it makes since if we sign a guy who can replace him, because he is in the last year of his contract, and doesn't have an extension. I just hope we have signed someone/ or are about to sign someone who can put up similar production.

Jason Whitten is a Pro Bowl TE...........top 5 at his position no doubt. The same goes with his teammate Demarcus Ware........let me ask you this who is going to win the Cowpokes more games next year Whitten or Ware??? Like I said he's a FREAKING TE!!!! I don't care how good they are they aren't nearly as important to winning in the game of football as some of the positions we have HUGE holes at. Heiden is capable of being a decent option for an NFL TE, and we can fill a hole at a much more important position with the # 50 pick. We just traded extra baggage at a luxury position to be able to obtain players who fill a much bigger need on this team..........smart move by the Browns FO.

Heiden is coming off of a tore up knee.

Rucker is a huge unknown.

Who knows what we get in return. I always like knowing what I'm getting then taking a gamble.

One thing I just thought of ... the JETS drafted Keller last year with their first pick. TE (of the pass catching variety) was obviously a need for them and they most likely scouted them hard. Maybe that means Mangini knows something about Rucker and that assessment was enough to make Winslow expendable besides all of the other reasons it made sense. Maybe that was the clincher. That would make me feel good about Rucker.

Yep.......these guys knew that we needed a good TE to run there style of O, and have to feel good about who we have in house to be so willing to shop KW. Imo Heiden probably starts at the beginning of the season, but Rucker will get his reps, and end up being the starter by season's end.


KW was gone this offseason the moment we drafted Rucker last year.......I mean the guy is a KW clone...........probably not quite as good, but probably not the nut job either. We are fine at TE and have no need to upgrade there via the draft imo.

I just hope this doesnt come back and bite the browns in the ass.

I understand you win championships with draft picks but history shows us the browns are not very lucky when it does come to the draft.

Off topic but thanks for the great drafting Botch. Hey at least you gave us Pontibrand!

Deadspin: Kellen Winslow Takes His Soldier Posturing, Infected Balls To Tampa

I saw Clay Mathews name mentioned to the Pats....on a side note...Daddy Mathews...who some of you might know...Publicly came out and said he WANTS his kid to play in N.E. for Coach BB.

HACK

so we are goin to get all these picks but how is our cap space? i mean it dont do us anygood to stock pile picks if we cant afford to sign them all.

How many sacred cows are their on a 4-12 team? Mangini and Kok studied the films. They saw who was going to fit their system and who wasn't. The time to retool is now. The K2 thing came as little surprise to me. It's what I expected.

The absolutely most important thing is that the new regime selects great football players, especially on the first day, in the upcoming draft. And that they spend wisely on the free agent market on tough guys with upside. There are starting spots to be had on this team. The rebuild won't happen in one season.

Ok, Hack...I know where you're coming from here...but I'm taking Jules' *gasp* side on this.

You sound like ImpactPlaya...

Sounds like rubbing salt in the wound, not gonna lie.

and I'm sure because "Ammo said that" it's gonna be frowned upon, I don't care...I've read enough potshots about my team the past few weeks and I've had enough.

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Some of you guys are getting gun shy....I said nothing....I passed along information.
LINK TO MESSAGE BOARD REMOVED

This is not where I read it..just the first thing that popped up on google when I went looking for it.

I passed on info....I did not editorialize either positive or negative.

HACK

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Dude, you sound like Hannity.

Passing on info without editorializing would read as such:

"Clay Matthews' father has said he wants his son to play in New England.

::link:"

The word 'daddy' and the condescending question of whether or not we remember #57 gives you away.

For the record...even if you'd done what I suggested, you'd be flamed for taunting...but you crafted the extra words. And that's cool...we can handle it...but don't cry innocence.

Trading Winslow... Does that give us more cap room THIS year?

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Give me a link where it is reported we are shopping BE???


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Forget about the reports ... do the math...last year of contract ... some question whether he wants to be here or not ... 2 + 2 = ... yada...yada...yada ...

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I see a lot of potential in BE and would hate to see it go elsewhere when maybe a better tutor would help.... But in the end, if they do trade him, it depends on who they bring in to replace him that will make me either think it's a good move or a bad move.

NFL Network just made a good point.. Braylon is now on the last year of his contract. He is going to want the money. Cleveland will probably not give it to him. So he will probably be on the trade block as well.. Mangini will want to get something from him, rather than nothing.

It's rare rookies make huge impacts in the league their first year, but Robiskie would be a solid pickup in the 2nd round. Great hands, and could be a headache to opposing teams for years.

I also like:
Percy Harvin - Florida - 5'11 - 192 lbs. - Projected: 1st - 2nd round
Patrick Turner - USC - 6'5 - 223 lbs. Projected: 6th round
Marko Mitchell - Nevada - 6'4 218 lbs. Projected: 5th round

I would hate to see the Browns man the field w/out a Vet... but there is Jurevicious... and there is Cribbs... He is not a true WR.. But he can get open and get yards... We also have Stallworth. He place in Cleveland is up in the air, but as of right now... He is still a Brown...

My thinking is we will probably pass a receiver in the draft and find a FA vet...a guy to hold the fort for a year or two....unless Crabtree is sitting there when we draft....It isn't impossible we drafted him.

More likely is we would look to trade down for more picks.

I get the distinct feeling this group believes in building from the inside out and don't think receivers are high on the list right now.

I wouldn't be shocked if we went safety in round 2....Chung or someone like that...that is up the middle defense....or center/guard....up the middle offense.

I'd hate to think that we would pin our receiver hopes on some rookies, one old vet and one vet that is average as a receiver.

Stallworth,, I don't know man, that seems like a stretch to count on him for anything.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2009/02/with_browns_regime_seeking_a_n.html

With Browns regime seeking a new attitude, Kellen Winslow had to go
by Terry Pluto/Plain Dealer Columnist
Saturday February 28, 2009, 6:54 AM

The first significant decision by the Browns' new brain trust is bold and to those fans who want a new direction from their favorite football team -- well, the Browns shipped former Pro Bowl tight end Kellen Winslow to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers for a pair of draft picks, a sec ond round pick in 2009 and a fifth- round pick in 2010.

The message from General Manager George Kokinis and head coach Eric Mangini is that the Browns wanted no part of an ugly contract dispute with a 25-year-old tight end whom they considered to be self-absorbed.

The Browns are coming off a 4-12 record and have had only two winning seasons in 10 years since their return. For that to change, Kokinis and Mangini believe there must be significant turnover of the roster.

It began with this blockbuster deal Friday, one that the Browns had to make.

Many Browns fans love Win slow for his passion on the field, his suction cups for fingers and his knack for catching passes with a defender hanging on his back.

But the injury-prone Winslow missed the last six games of 2008, and has played only 44 of a possible 80 games in his five-year Browns career.

Winslow is tough on coaches and the front office. He's had four knee surgeries, meaning it's difficult for him to practice between games. His shoulder often aches, his body never has been the same since a major motorcycle accident after the 2005 season.

Mangini and Kokinis correctly believe the Browns have had too many sideshows in the past few seasons, Winslow being at the center of some of the major distractions, such as demanding at trade at mid-season and claiming the front office treated him "like a piece of meat."

On the field, his knee problems have severely hampered his blocking. His speed also has decreased, and he no longer can sprint past defenders to get open as he did a few years ago. In 10 games, he was flagged for seven offensive pass interference penalties - because he had to illegally push away a defender to create space to catch a pass.

Another part of Winslow's game that bothered the Browns was his tendency to line up in the wrong spot and not be in the same strategic sentence with the rest of the offense. He was something between a tight end and a wide receiver.

The new regime prefers a more traditional, physical blocking tight end. The Browns believe Steve Heiden can fill that role, and they like the pass-catching ability of second-year tight end Martin Rucker.

Winslow also wanted his contract reworked since last spring when he hired hard-knuckled agent Drew Rosenhaus, who has held out several clients in the past few seasons. Winslow had two years at about $4 million annually left on his deal. He wants to be paid like one of the game's premier tight ends, and Tampa Bay agreed to give him a new contract as part of the trade.

Not all of the problems were the fault of Winslow. He was one of several Browns to suffer a staph infection, and he had two.

His first injury was a broken leg in his second pro game and he missed the remainder of his rookie season.

But he also liked to forget he was paid $11.6 million in his first two seasons when he played only two games because of various injuries.

This trade makes sense for the Browns because they need draft picks, and now have three selections in the first two rounds in April.

That should produce young players to supply immediate help.

Had former General Manager Phil Savage remained in his job, he planned to trade Winslow for many of the same reasons that Kokinis and Mangini did. Winslow's supporters tried to pin all the troubles between the tight end and team on a personality clash with Savage, especially because Savage did not draft Winslow.

He was selected in the first round of the 2005 draft by former head coach Butch Davis.

But Savage, Mangini and Kokinis also believed that the Browns had to alter the attitude of the team, that Winslow was more trouble than he was worth. For the Browns to truly move in a new direction, he had to go.

To reach Terry Pluto:
terrypluto2003@yahoo.com, 216-999-4674

Turk - I would for us to get some Hakeem Nicks in the 2nd. He may go in the 1sr though.

Jules - I still don't see the I told you so part of Hack's 1st post but every post he has made since has been riddled with smack

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But he also liked to forget he was paid $11.6 million in his first two seasons when he played only two games because of various injuries.

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That's one of my problems with Winslow. but really, it's not just him, there are a lot of high profile player (or wannabe high profile players) that forget the good things teams have done for them when contract talks begin. I think it's more the way of the world than any one player.

I didn't know that Savage was thinking of trading Winslow..

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At 4-12, mediocrity is somewhere way north of us ... I am hoping to be mediocre this year

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LOL Peens right, that is one hell of a one liner... Very very good

I just saw somethign that really makes me hopeful that we can make another deal with the Bucs........


They named Antonio Bryant ...... yeah, THAT Antonio Bryant, their franchise player.

Wow .......

Maybe we can trade them Steve Sanders for a 1st and a 3rd.

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I like that, and am going to steal it.

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lol....i was thinking the same exact thing....

whats funny is when you think about it, we have done with winslow exactly what posters around here have clamored for.....got something for a good player, who was never gonna stick around..

winslows "i'm the greatest te" rhetoric meant he was never gonna stay here...because he's not....

once a player gets bigger than the team, its time to go....pit does it, the pats do it.....they set up how they want to do things, and they stick to it....build thru the draft

resign your good players...groom your young ones to replace the current starters...

i don't regret what savage did bringing in fa's, because we didn't have any great players of our own to resign....now we have a few quality players so its time to start drafting and developing talent...

and since we were 4-12 we don't have to many players that are 'safe'....i think everyones fear is if we get rid of too many players then we are rebuilding...and nobody wants to see that..

they would rather think we are a few pieces away....well we are probably somewhere in the middle of that...

if edwards demands for a new contract don't jive with the teams plans, then you get what you can for him now......one year with a great player isn't worth it.....when you could be developing a rook that could be a good player for 4-5 years....

this team had problems last year.....why some posters want to hang on to all of the old problems is beyond me....

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The Browns are coming off a 4-12 record and have had only two winning seasons in 10 years since their return. For that to change, Kokinis and Mangini believe there must be significant turnover of the roster.

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Someone else has already mentioned this but weren't we told that one of the things that Mangini told Lerner was that he could win with this roster?

I know every new coach wants to put his "mark" on the team, but damn, do we have the start of another "5 year plan"?

I hope not. I doubt my wallet will hold out that long.

There are no 5 year plans in the NFL anymore.

They can change all they want, but I am not giving any 5 years.

Quinn has had his leaning time....I expect him to play at least as well as the Ryan kid did in Atlanta...and expect Mangini and friends to make a quick turn around. Two years is long enough to be able to tell if you are on the road to where you need to be,

Not even that really...we will know by game six of the 10 season if we finally made the interstate or if we are still stuck on some back woods road..

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unless Crabtree is sitting there when we draft....It isn't impossible we drafted him.

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That's my take on it also. It wouldn't totally surprise me if we drafted him. I do wonder, though, if we try to trade down and there are no takers, do we draft and try to trade him? I mean a team that wants him thinks there's no way the Browns will draft him, so they don't trade up to the 5 spot. The Browns then take him and say, now it's going to cost you to get him. Is this a realistic possibility?

Anything is possible at this point, but FA just started so methinks we should let that play out as the draft is some miles down the road just yet.....Mangini is still working on the flat edge pieces of this jigsaw puzzle.....