DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Broncos QB Cutler miffed at the team after trade talks surface

If the Lions trade their #1 pick to the Broncos... Matt Stafford would be the 2007 Brady Quinn....

Staffords hero is John Elway... He would light up some teams with that arem...

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Ok first of all Palmer, Flacco, and Big Ben only play one game a year by the lake. Their arm strength and ability to throw hard in bad winds in Cleveland was not the reason they were drafted.

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yea, because we didn't play a game at cinci that had 40 mph winds. yea, because pittsburgh and baltimore never has horrendous weather with high winds. i'm not saying they were drafted BECAUSE of the weather, but i'm also saying it's no coincidence that they all have very strong arms.

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Benefit from the altitude?? The most successful QB to ever think about wearing a Denver uniform had an absolute rocket for an arm. Elway was known to break fingers he threw the ball so hard.

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yea, benefits from the altitude. you understand physics right? the broncos play at a higher altitude, so there's less air, so there's less air resistance. quinn's arm strength, debatable on this board, would only benefit from playing there. this had nothing to do with elway. let's put it as simple as possible. if you play in high altitude and your arm is average, your throws will go farther. that's a good thing. if you already have a strong arm, your throws will still go farther, that's still a good thing. i never said "strong armed players do not benefit from a high altitude." gmab

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Quinn and Tom Brady are not even close to the same QB. Tom is a lot like Kurt Warner, IMHO. He's a good-great timing QB that's smart and throws a good to great deep ball. BQ is a very smart QB that's real accurate on the short to intermediate stuff and throws an average to above average deep ball.

Cutler is a lot more like Tom Brady than BQ is. You can teach timing and decision making, you can't teach arm strength. Cutler does not fit the type of offense that EM wants to run here (a NE version of the WCO). Cutler would have fit a whole lot better in the offense that we ran here the last two years

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WHAT???? are you serious?! i thought everyone wanted quinn here because he was as close to the next brady as possible! i thought weiss sold quinn as a qb just like brady! and now you come on this board and say cutler is closer to brady than quinn is? did anyone else's jaw drop when they read that?

i'm not going to address all of your other points because that one just sealed the deal. let's just say this: 1) you don't know what mangini is going to do at offense and 2) cutler has arm strength but is also accurate so yea, he could play in whatever offense you want him to play in. it just so happens the smart coordinators will take advantage of his arm strength.

gmafb.

if i were a bronco fan and that all happened, i'd run mcd out of town the very next day. that's just insane. let's trade our qb, who was drafted in the middle of the 1st round, who has great chemistry in the locker room, who just made the pro bowl and let's trade him because mcd screwed up. further, let's trade him fir the 1st overall pick to draft a 50% hit rate qb with #1 overall money tied to him. that would be the biggest blunder in recent football history.

J/c...

I seriously doubt that we are interested in picking up Cutler for either QB. All this seems to be speculation by the national press without any sourcing. Once one reporter threw it out there others jumped on the bandwagon so as not to be left out in the cold.

The Broncos want to win now IMO. Trading for either of our QB's isn't likely. Quinn is completely green and DA has been way too inconsistent to let anyone think he is ready to jump into a starting role for a team who expects to win in the playoffs. DA may be able to lead a team far if they have a great running attack. The Broncos do not have one IMO right now.

I think it will depend on the QB. I think McDaneils feels that he can do what he did with Cassel with Quinn. Cassel was pretty green too and the Pat's still won 11 games.

Look at Flacco and look at Ryan. Teams can win with Green QB's.

I don't want Cutler though. If he is that emotional then I don't want him.

I'll take Cutler, this team is starved for a true stud at QB. It is also starved for some life and emotion.

I think Quinn can develop into a good QB, but we already know Cutler is a stud. And is still very young and not a QB beaten to a pulp. He's right in the mold of Big Ben or John Elway.

Gimmie Cutler, and a pass rush, we'll be playing in January.

Aren't you the least bit concerned that he's a diabetic? I am.

not at all. diabetes is both common and easy to deal with. sure it sucks that he has to monitor his blood but it's really not a big deal. it's high-maintenance but manageable.

that right there is the one reason i am not in favor of trading Quinn for Cutler. Diabetic management has come along way, but still it is a concern. And with all of those finger sticks, a MRSA infection would soon follow...... ok, half joking on that one!

J/C - interesting read from Don Banks of CNNSI




Watching the slow-motion car crash that is the Jay Cutler-Denver divorce in the making, I can't help but get the feeling I've seen this particular movie before. From the looks of it, it's once again a five-star Bus Cook Production.

For the third time in four NFL offseasons, Cook, the veteran agent who doesn't mind going public when the need arises, has one of his big-name quarterback clients locked into some sort of ugly and protracted stand-off with his particular team. There was Steve McNair's messy exit from Tennessee that stretched throughout the spring of 2006, Brett Favre's never-ending melodrama with Green Bay in 2008 -- the story that ate the summer -- and now we get to witness Cutler and the Broncos exchange ideas on what exactly constitutes a breach of faith these days.

The details of each case are all a little different, but after spending time the past two days talking to sources within the NFL, I found it apparent that the similarities of the three recent quarterback sagas have been duly noted around the league.

And the consensus is that with Cutler we're probably in for another story that generates hostage-crisis level coverage (which, alas, has already started) before culminating in both parties going their separate ways amidst some level of recrimination. That's roughly how McNair became a Raven for the last two years of his career, and how Favre pulled on that green and white Jets jersey for one last celebrated go-round on the quarterback carousel.

Now it's Cutler's turn, and Cook is doing his level best to shoot his young star's way out of town. His client wants a trade, and Cook has a tried and true playbook for leveraging that particular scenario. Interestingly, Cutler, Favre and McNair are the only three NFL quarterbacks Cook represents, and the latter two are retired.

"Bus has a pattern here with this sort of thing,'' one veteran NFL general manager told me Monday afternoon. "And he's been successful with it before. What you have here is an agent trying to dictate the position of an entire franchise. He sees an opportunity, because he knows [the Broncos] are vulnerable to pressure. They've got a new, 32-year-old head coach [Josh McDaniels], a new young general manager [Brian Xander], and an owner in Pat Bowlen who has only recently re-engaged in the decision-making of his team.

"Bus is turning up the heat because he knows there has been a tremendous amount of change going on there in Denver. He's trying to break the organization, break the ownership, now that it's just Bowlen and these two young guys. There are new people in Denver and they exposed themselves with the dabbling they did [in trade talks], and now they've got an agent trying to make it as miserable as he can for them. He's creating some pressure through the media, and trying to see how strong these three are going to be. Will they sit there and be able to take the heat? Something like this can bring an organization to its knees.''

One veteran agent with several high-profile NFL clients said that everything that has unfolded in Denver regarding Cutler in the past three weeks fits nicely under the heading of a "classic case of an agent trying to get his guy traded.''

Another longtime agent I talked to said few are better than Cook at "busting a guy out of there'' when a player wants to be traded, and that he has a history of using maximum leverage against a team.

"If the client wants out, then he's doing the will of his client,'' the agent said. "And Bus' M.O. is to play it out very publicly. If this was another agent, things could be done behind the scenes and you wouldn't be hearing about it. But just like coordinators have their own schemes that they like, so do agents. By now, teams should have seen film of Bus, and scouted him well. They know what's coming when he has a client who wants out.''

The football-speak may sound funny when talking about an agent, but it's true in Cook's case. I talked to a Packers official who said the organization gleaned valuable insight during last summer's Favre showdown from what happened between McNair and Tennessee in 2006. He said the "whole Steve McNair playbook'' helped the Packers because they were determined not to give Cook any reason to claim that the team had shown Favre any disrespect when he returned to Green Bay during training camp.

Due to the team's concerns about being liable for his $23 million salary cap number should McNair get injured during offseason workouts, the Titans quarterback had been locked out of the team complex that spring, an indignity that Cook used superbly in the public-relations battle against the franchise. The Packers threw open their doors for Favre and gave him free reign to use anything he wanted, including his luxury suite. Some Titans officials even offered advice to their counterparts in Green Bay on what to look out for when facing a battle with one of Cook's quarterback clients.

Another echo from the past that has reminded some of Favre's stance last summer has been Cutler's refusal to meet with his new head coach, McDaniels, without Cook in the room, or on the phone, at the same time. Packers general manager Ted Thompson and head coach Mike McCarthy have privately maintained that they felt Cook poisoned the relationship between Favre and the Packers decision-makers. Broncos sources say the same dynamic is in place regarding how Cutler feels about the new power structure of McDaniels and Xander in Denver.

Some NFL sources I talked to believe Cook's ultimate goal in getting Cutler out of Denver is really more about landing him a new contract with a new team. Cutler has three years remaining on his relatively low-paying $48-million, six-year rookie deal, signed in 2006 after Denver traded the 15th and 68th picks to St. Louis to nab him at No. 11. He likely wouldn't be in line for a contract extension from the Broncos until 2011.

"My feeling is this is all about a contract,'' said the veteran NFL general manager. "He's got three years left, and that's a lifetime in this league. I think it's being orchestrated for money, and to get rid of the last three years of that deal. Either he gets traded and wants a new five-year deal from his new team as part of a trade, or it's about trying to get the Broncos to show how committed they are to him, by giving him a long-term deal.

"I'm curious to see which way it goes. But it's getting uglier by the day. The agent and the player are saying other things, like Cutler can't trust McDaniels and he's not comfortable with the new regime, but I think it comes back to the contract. I know this much: It's all going downhill like a snowball at this point.''

One NFL source pointed out that with both Favre and McNair retired, Cook doesn't have two of the best advertisements for his services playing in the league any more. Other than New England receiver Randy Moss, Cutler is Cook's highest-profile client (although he also represents Falcons running back Michael Turner and Patriots linebacker Adalius Thomas). Successfully agitating Cutler out of Denver will perhaps help recruit new clients and keep Cook's name both in the news and on the A-list of agents.

But while McNair and Favre were both traded near the end of their long and successful careers, Cutler's case is very different in that key respect. He's entering only his fourth NFL season, and third full year as a starter. While he's known as an obvious talent with a gifted right arm, he's not the proven commodity that McNair and Favre were when Cook worked to relocate them to a new NFL venue.

That leads some NFL sources to question whether Cook's methods are as wise to employ on behalf of Cutler at this point in his career as they were on veterans such as McNair and Favre?

"In this league, you really only get to cry wolf once in your career, and Cutler's using that option pretty early on,'' a longtime NFL agent said. "To get a short-term result, meaning a trade, certain methods may be more effective than others, and going public and to the media like they're doing is always one of them. However, for the long-term development of your quarterback mentally, it's debatable whether that method is helpful. It could backfire on them.''

In case of McNair and Favre, of course, both had a great deal of initial success with their new teams, but it didn't last long. McNair retired after an injury-plagued 2007 season, his second in Baltimore, and Favre re-retired this offseason, after his one roller-coaster year in New York. If Cutler and Cook get their wish from Denver, their gambit better not wind up being described over time as having backfired. Some divorces are a mistake in retrospect, but it's too early to judge whether there will be any potential winners if the breakup of Cutler and the Broncos comes to pass.

If Cutler does get to the trade market this offseason, the methods Cook used to land him there may be quickly forgotten or overlooked. As one NFL source reminded me:

"If you're Cutler, you know you're young, you're good, and you've got a good arm,'' he said. "You're banking on 31 other teams. Thirty of them might think you're a knucklehead, but it only takes one team to take the contrarian view and think they're smarter than anyone else and want to prove it by trading for you. Young quarterbacks are always going to get another chance, and the benefit of the doubt.''

In Denver at the moment, there's no short supply of doubt on any number of fronts. We don't know yet if or how the Broncos' Cutler saga will end, but there are chapters in this story that have grown quite familiar.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/don_banks/03/17/cook/index.html

I think Cutler is good but man I just can't stand how he is acting. I mean come on already Jay is acting like he is a 4 time superbowl MVP. A new regiem has come in and he wanted his guy that he just won 11 games with the last season. Get over it already.

Mangini is here and everything that I've heard through the grapevine is Brady Quinn isn't blowing Eric's mind away and he is up for trading him. Do you see Brady out there whining like a premadona? Nope.

We are a hard fan base to play for and if he is this emotional we might have another Tim Couch situation when the fans boo when he makes a bad play.

And for the record I've said the same thing about Braylon when he was crying about fans booing him. Only difference is we don't have a back up to Braylon and we have two young QB's here.

Not trying to br jerk here,but I've seen this Mangini isn't crazy abut Quinn posted several times and I'm curious about it.
First of all,how would wwe know how Mangini feels?And if doesn't like him,what is he basing that on?
You are just the latest of a number of people who've made this statement and I was hoping someone could fill me in on the details.

I don't think we know how he thinks. I don't think anyone outside of a select few know. People are jumping to conclusions because of the lack of info. DA is still here, so he must not like Quinn. Quinn isn't named the starter on day one, so He must not trust him. The media is wildly speculating and it is getting passed on as truth.

PDawg,

Mangini isn't going to come out and say "Quinn sucks I don't want him" but there is some merit to questioning why Quinn isn't named the starter.

And I never said Mangini hates Quinn I just said that everything being heard throught the grapevine is he isn't exactly drooling over him.

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not at all. diabetes is both common and easy to deal with. sure it sucks that he has to monitor his blood but it's really not a big deal. it's high-maintenance but manageable.

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It's a sitution that can be controlled normally, but it was reported a few weeks back that Cutler had an attack before practice once and it nailed him for the day, He was done. How do you know that it won't happen on gameday?

But, let's just say I'm overreacting to his health issue. Isn't anyone somewhat alarmed by his actions as of late.

I mean, his QB coach gets canned, his head coach gets canned and he's all over the map emotionally. As far as I'm concerned, he has issues beyond health that make him a risky pick up.

I have no quarrel with his ability. none, but with what's between his ears,, I got questions.

I think he's acting like a spoiled brat, like 99% of all pro athletes do. I'm not condoning Cutler's behavior. Also, diabetic treatment is so advanced now days, i'm not concerned. Maybe if he was 40 or something, but hes in his mid 20's.

Guys get mad at coaches and hold out every year, and players request trades every year. To me, its not T.O. where he is ripping teammates, or questioning the coaches during the season.

He wants out, he wants to "be the guy" and be paid like it. I think that if McDaniels had really did a 180 and told Cutler he was Denvers guy, this woulda went away.

His ego is hurt, and right or wrong...all these guys have huge egos. I still would gladly give up an unknown quantity in BQ to get a young proven QB. IMO.

putting the health issues aside, i think all of this is bus cook. just like the article posted above, this thing reeks of favre. there are a lot of mirroring components.

aside from that, however, i maintain that mcdaniels could have easily defused this situation but instead chose to draw it out. as far as what's between cutler's ears, all i knwo is he is a leader in the broncos lockerroom and when word came out of his diabetes struggles, teammates were very high on him. further, during the ongoing rivers/cutler feud (well not really a feud), cutler's teammates came out talking about his class and leadership while talking about how much of a jackass rivers is (all the taunting along the sidelines and crap like that).

this isn't even going into the talent and potential that cutler has. he has anderson's arm, roethlisberger-esque mobility/size (6' 3" 233 lbs vs ben's 6'5" 241 lbs), and accuracy. physically, he's a total package.

what's going on in the media is just part of the game, and that especially holds true if bus cook is playing. a point that was discussed and is in the article above is that bus really doesn't have many clients. he's creating a stink because he needs to show influence in order to draw more clients in. in the end, if this thing is resolved and cutler ends up in cleveland, i do not think his attitude/drama will present itself again. then again, the depth of how much we know of cutler and his personality is very thin, just as we do quinn (plenty of posters here say they hung out with quinn and he's a jackass but they don't care so long as he puts out the right product on the field) and DA. i would simply hope that koke and mangini do their proper due diligence before pulling the trigger if they decide to go that direction, which i hope they do.

After reading the article by NLR, I don't think it's about his ego, the coaches ego or how the Broncs tryied to trade him. He wants a new contract, period.


.....ok, it may additionally be about how Cutler lost HIS offensive coordinator, lost HIS coach and may think HIS status in the organization is in jeopardy....that's part of it but it's mostly about money. Money will prove he's still the man and soften the blow of losing the familiar coaches he liked.

It all comes down to a couple of things.

1. How does M/K evaluate BQ - do they think he's our Future Franchise QB? We don't have enough info on the kid but those two have a lot more and can evaluate the situation a lot further than us mortal fans.

2. The FO is tight as a drum and the only leak that has ever come out has them leaking the fact that there will be a QB competition. Is it real or is it Memorex???

Of course I was told by somebody that it was a PLANTED LEAK... but the source has no credibility.

3. Then we have the fact of this agent COOK...would that matter to M/K? One would have to think if he is not satisfied with BQ as THE MAN...we have to make a play for Cutler as long as its considered a Steal.

4. I'd rather be listening about DA being the hot QB item out there. I don't think we have anything sniffed at with DA till the Cutler thing gets settled. This guy Cook and his client Cutler is stealing our DA thunder

I'm curious to what happens the next 3 weeks.

JMHO

dong, you me and Brownsfan are just gonna have to disagree on this one.. I don't want him here. something is wrong with this and I don't want to have to deal iwth it here.

Having said that, if they pulled the deal off, I'd support him as a Brown, but all in all, I think it's a dumb move if it happens.

understandable. aside from him, personally, i just view this move as the end-all, this is THE guy, no more questions, starter. there would be no questions about his accuracy, or his footwork, or his ability to hit the long ball, or whatever. further, from the talent and strengths standpoint, cutler fits here as much as quinn would fit with mcd.

that said, i definitely understand your side about not wanting a primma donna at what is considered the most important position in football. whatever happens, it has been and will be an interesting ride.

No way are you that old!?

please don't miscontrue my post as saying diabetes is a walk in the park. i was simply going off of friends who very recently developed them. they were still just as active as normal and, given they're in their mid to late 20s, they really didn't miss a beat. i wouldn't expect a multi-million dollar athlete with the best medical care in teh world would be held back too much.

but man, had no idea you were so old yet still coherent

Peen is as young as he feels. By that statement i guess he feels 60-65!!!

Peen looks ALOT younger than that though.

I'm fine and good going into 2009 with Brady Quinn as our QB. If the current bunch feel Cutler is going to be a problem, and feel BQ can be the man, I'm down with that.

The other issue would obviously be money, how big of a raise does Cutler want?

My fear, and I guess partly why I would pull the trigger for Cutler, is the fear that somehow Derek Anderson is our starting QB in 2009. It wouldn't be the first bunch he wows and doops with arm strength.

Everyone can now rip on Grossi .......

http://www.cleveland.com/brownsbeat/index.ssf/2009/03/tony_grossis_blog_cleveland_br.html

Trading for Jay Cutler would be a sucker move for the Browns.
They need to define their quarterback situation, not muck it up more with a whining, insecure flamethrower. Whatever additional RPM's on his fastball Cutler would bring, the overall total package is not going to significantly upgrade the team.

But Denver's need to trade Cutler is beneficial to the Browns for this reason: It creates a new market for Brady Quinn.

Denver can't trade Cutler without getting a replacement in return. Of the two Browns' quarterbacks, Quinn has to appeal more to Denver coach Josh McDaniels because of Quinn's exposure to Charlie Weis at Notre Dame. McDaniels adores Weis, Weis adores Quinn. Hence, McDaniels should adore Quinn.

To facilitate a trade, though, a third team must be involved. The most likely candidates are the Jets, Tampa Bay and Detroit.
The Jets have to be champing at the bit to acquire Cutler. He would fit their offense perfectly and amp up the buzz that new fan-friendly coach Rex Ryan has created through some high profile additions in free agency.

With Cutler at the throttle of coordinator Brian Schottenheimer's vertical-strike offense, the Jets are formidable AFC contenders. They're ready to win. They have the No. 17 pick in the first round.

Tampa Bay might be able to contend in the NFC with Cutler. But the Bucs already gave up their second-round draft pick for Kellen Winslow. A deal of this magnitude would have to include their No. 1, and they likely wouldn't want to part with it.

Detroit has three high picks -- Nos. 1, 20 and 33. Certainly the Lions would be agreeable to dealing either of the latter two in a trade netting them Cutler.

How would a three-way trade improve the Browns?

First, it would unlock the logjam at quarterback and establish the offensive leader once and for all. The Browns say they're happy with bringing both passers back, but league sources insist the team is shopping either quarterback. They say the Browns can't decide which one they really want, so they would just keep the one they can't trade and move forward.

What does it matter, anyway? The decimation of the Browns' receiving corps (goodbye Winslow, Jurevicius and probably Donte Stallworth) leaves the offense in ball-control mode for 2009.

Second, a trade of Quinn would -- must -- net the Browns an additional high-round pick, which would help rebuild the team.

And if that high-round pick happens to come from the Jets, now, wouldn't that make it a perfect deal for coach Eric Mangini?

The way Cutler is acting shouldnt surprise anybody, expecially us Browns fans, man we've seen this type of spoiled behavior every year, I dont agree with it and he needs his attitude adjusted but thats kinda what NFL players do, so do i agree with it heck no, am I surprised saddly no.

As for trading for Cutler, NO, we have Brady he deserves a shot, now if we can pull off a three Way trade DA to recieve draft picks or a desent DB or LB than heck yes.

Denver trades Cutler to Carolina....Carolina Trades J.Peppers to NE.....NE trades it's # 34 pick and Denvers 3rd round to Cleveland who trades DA to Denver...

I just wish Mangini would come out and say....

Quinn will be our starter... I hate this nonsense...


Charlie Frye had more of an opportunity than Quinn was given. I'm a little confused on why some of you on this board have already deemed Quinn to be a failure.

It is killing me to agree with Grossi.

The only problem I have with the 3 team scenarios I have seen is that Cleveland seems to come out on the short end of the stick.

They all end up with the Jets getting Cutler, Denver getting Quinn and us giving up a what could become a damn good QB, sometimes a draft pick as well, to acquire either draft picks or a player that we don't really NEED and draft picks.

Sorry, if we're gonna give up a QB like Quinn or even Anderson I want some proven Dline/LB help now. Not extra 2nd or 3rd round picks. And not another CB. Our DBs will be fine if we can get some kind of rush on the passer.

Maybe it's just me but I have a problem with being pivot man on a 3 team circle jerk that ends up with everyone getting a starting QB but us. (Sorry, I just don't think DA is a long term answer at QB).

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Of the two Browns' quarterbacks, Quinn has to appeal more to Denver coach Josh McDaniels because of Quinn's exposure to Charlie Weis at Notre Dame. McDaniels adores Weis, Weis adores Quinn. Hence, McDaniels should adore Quinn.

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Hence, the manner in which Grossi and other sports journalists form their assumptions and opinions. No different than anyone on the message board. These guys are guessing at scenarios just like everyone else.

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That rumor was posted on here and deleted. I'm not going to repeat who the browns got in return because it's just a rumor.