DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Cutler Miff Part Two

So you're saying that there is absolutely NOTHING anyone can give us in return that would justify trading Quinn?

And, what's your proof that playing Quinn will lead us to victory, hence showing that we're not "rebuilding"?

So you're saying there is no player currently on a team that could be traded to us for Quinn?

The way they are talking about the trade, it would be a three way deal with us trading Quinn to the Broncos, we trade Cutler to the Jets, and we get?......
draft picks.

i'd be ok with the jets' first rounder... although i'm sure heads would roll if we traded BQ; being the "savior" he has been annointed. some in the fan-base would be calling for em/gk to be fired already, and i'm sure the cleveland media would try to spin it like em was being bill and cutting bernie all over again

i think that it would be an awesome return on our investment though. it would be a 5 spot improvement from where he was orig. drafted?

(1) Only rumors so far with absolutely nothing to back it up.
(2) If we get rid of Quinn, wouldn't we still have DA? I'm not saying he's the savior, but he certainly has the ability to win games for us.
(3) If we get draft picks for Quinn and we use those to upgrade our OL and our D, wouldn't that really help whoever our QB is?

U want to talk about saying sumptin with a straight face .... kinda ironic with the BS your floating here ..

How can u compare Campbell & Frye .. thats ridicoulous ... One was taken in rnd 1 and the other in rnd 3 .... THERE WAS A REASON FOR THAT ... this is not guys like Rodgers and BQ falling in the draft ... this is a MAJOR TALENT DISCREPENCY ...

sometimes I wonder how someone as intelligent as U can actualy bring himself to type things like this .... its INCREDIBLY STUPID ...

and hows about we let Rodgers do it for 3 or 4 years before anyone starts laughing ... people tend to laugh way to early in the NFL ... they all forgot the saying .. he who laughs last, laughs loudest ... for now a little snicker or even a giggle would be way more approproate that laughing ....

and I have no dog in the Rodgers hunt . I only saw him 3 or 4 times in college and unlike guys like U and most on here .. I like to have a MUCH BIGGER DATA BASE of info before I start drawing conclusions like u have with BQ ...

and U would regret trading Campbell for BQ ,.... BQ's FLOOR IS JASON'S CEILING ...

and I agree with U that Jason will end up a solid, productive NFL QB ...

BQ will just be ALOT BETTER ... THE TIME IS FINALLY HERE ... YOU'LL SEE!!!!!!!!!!

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(3) If we get draft picks for Quinn and we use those to upgrade our OL and our D, wouldn't that really help whoever our QB is?

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yes it would HELP whoever the QB is in that we'd be a better team ... BUT the part U dolts do not seem to be able to comprehend is that itr will not make DA a BETTER QB ... he will still be INNACURATE .. he will stillmake DUMB ASS DECISIONS ..

If we trade BQ for Jay ... JAY HAS TO STAY HERE ...

the 3 way stuff is going to be very very hared to pull off if u actually think about it .. and guys NO WAY DO WE END UP WITH TWO HIGH DRAFT PICKS FOR BEING THE CONDUIT IN THIS TRADE ... its going to take alot more than BQ to pry jay away from the Donks .. ALOT MORE ... we'd be lucky to end up with 1 first round pick for BQ if it was a 3 way ....

I really wish most of u would stop thinking with your hearts and actually use your heads once in awhile ...

and for the record .. if we trade BQ and end up with Jay .. U won't here a negative peep out of me ... I would not be thrilled but how in the hell could u argue if U end up with Jay .. if we trade BQ for Jay and then ship jay off .... I WILL BE FUMING and i will be CONVINCED this regime is CLUELESS and were DOOMED until there gone ....

"While the guy I really wanted was Rodgers"

One of the few times we were on the same page...well maybe more than a few. But Rogers was so technically sound and had great footwork - I was wowed and so were you and we both thought he was better than Alex Smith.

JMHRecollection. Campbell??? He's developing quite nicely if you ask me. Redskins would be foolish to get to rid of him. That would be like the Fable of the dog with the bone in his mouth he sees his reflection and a nice juicy bone and lets go of his to capture the other bone...only to end up with nothing...

I agree,...that would not advance the Redskins' position.

POST DELETED- BLOG

wow, thanks for the read. following that link to lombardi led to this too:

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I know all of Cleveland has great hopes for Quinn, but the general feeling in the NFL is that he’s too inaccurate and too inconsistent to be a full time starter. Quinn slipped in the draft two years ago for a reason, and that reason was his inability to be accurate on all three levels. As Cleveland makes changes to its roster, don’t count out making a move at quarterback.

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http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/03/diner-morning-news-the-cutler-saga/

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And, what's your proof that playing Quinn will lead us to victory, hence showing that we're not "rebuilding"?

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I can give u as much proof that BQ can lead us to victory as U can that were re-building .. BASED on what we've done it is ABSOLUTELY ASSININE to think were re-building .. it MAKES NO SENSE WHAT SO EVER ..

u guys are going beyond reaching in this one .. i have SEEN NO PROFF WHAT SO EVER THAT WERE RE-BUILDING .... NONE ...

yet it permeates every thread ..

Have not even played a preseason game yet and Mangini & ( to a lesser degree ), Lerner are less than popular with a bunch of Fans

... " And you thought Eric Mangini was unpopular in Cleveland now. Wait until he trades boy wonder! .. "

Folks can blame the media , focus on Mr. Rogers , but it is really a matter of Communication ( Lack of ) that is at the root of a lot of this.. The new FO made a decision on how they where going to conduct Biz. this season , and by golly that's the end of that tune !

Can't believe I'm about to defend Diam, sort of, (it makes me feel so.....dirty) but here goes.

Quinn has not yet had a chance to prove or disprove anyone's opinion of his ability. Which makes me think that a lot of the rotoworld, PFT, etc. talk of people dissing BQ is crap being leaked by teams that may want a chance at stealing him in some kind of 3 way trade with us and the Broncos. Or just taking him in a regular trade, one on one.

Diam is overboard in his/her/it's love for Brady. But one thing is true....he's not without ability. Hell, some on here make me think they're talking about Ken Dorsey when they describe Quinn. That's just dumb.

What I don't want to see is us taking it in the shorts in a trade just because someone feels that we can't go into the season with both DA and BQ. Frankly, having both is much preferable to having just one.

And doesn't it seem strange that most of the speculation about us dumping Brady so the Jets can get Cutler has a New York dateline?

Will we trade one of our QBs? I don't know but it appears we'll hit 15 DBs on the roster before that happens......

I'm not picking a side here, but did last year's camp have no QB battle at all ?? Big Pork Chop said Anderson is it, and that was it ??

I.E. Quinn has never even had a chance to beat Anderson out, right ?

yes. DA was named the clear-cut starter going into the '08 season

what I never understood was why RAC then named BQ the starter for this year, in the last half of last year, after both qb's were on IR.

to save his job.

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I didn't. Someone else did.

Pay attention

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I DO and when i did i saw U COMPARING THEM ....

u think I read every post in all these threads .. if i did that i would have commited suicide 3 or 4 years ago .. either that or my IQ would be a negative number by now ...

I read about 4 or 5 posters religiously ... for better or worse .. your one of the lucky ones .. *L* .

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I said if we were going to trade up to get a QB, trade up to get a real one.

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did we trade up to get Charlie ... i do not remember .. but even if we did .. THERES A DIFERENCE BETWEEN TRADING UP ION RND 3 THEN IN RND ONE .... a HUGE HUGE DIFFERENCE ...

U should know that ..

and we did trade up to get a real QB ... just two years later ..

believe me .. we got a MUCH BETTER QB ...

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He better hurry up, because I'm gettin' tired of reading this from you

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the time is here bro ... the time is FINALLY HERE ...

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If'ins I were you, I'd be shakin' in my boots, as 'Gini hasn't exactly endorsed Quinn. Maybe it's because he's quiet, or maybe it's because he wants an open competition. I don't know.

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well i do ... and there will be no comp no matter what happens ... EVERYONE KNOWS TOAD ... except U and the rest of the dolts that bought into all the pre-draft crap ..

BQ is going to be a VERY VERY GOOD - GREAT QB in this league ... U WILL SEE ... along with Lombardi, Vers, Otto, LOYALTROLL, ding DONG and the rest of the dolts ...

nuttin has happend in his 2 years on the bench and his 2.5 games (1/2 of that being healthy) to change my OPINION ... and U know that I know that U know that l KNOW MY STUFF ...

Jeanie knows ... SILENCE IS GOLDEN in this case .. well at least its SMART cause the folks jeannie and Coke are trying to HOODWINK with there silence KNOW the deal to ..

so not only am i not quaking ... i have ZERO DOUBT that Jeannie and Coke see this one the same way as I do .... and I am not even a LITTLE BIT NERVOUS ..

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What I do know is that Quinn is standing on much shakier ground than he was under Savage and Crennel.

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U know that one kinda makes me laugh for a couple of reasons ..

1. I keep hearing about McDaniels and his connections to Wies and the O he will run in Denver and so BQ is logical for them .. I hear that on here and in the press ...... and until yesterday when eotab brought it up, no one had mentioned it on here (at least of the 4 or 5 people I consistently read anyhow .. *L*) ... and i have still not heard it in the press ........ well Daboll was there with Wies also .. and he was there with McDaniels ..

AND Jeannie was there with Wies also ... what .. he has no respect or relationship with him cause they were on opposite sides of the ball??? *LOL* .. OK ..

well why have we NEVER HEARD ABOUT THAT CONNECTION .... well my guess is cause it is NOT CONVENIANT and does not fit what folks want to believe on here and it DOES NOT SELL IN THE PRESS ... *LOL* .

2. All I heard from u and others when i said we were behind the 8 ball in FA was that JEANNIE was meeting with RAC and RESPECTED RAC and wanted RAC'S INPUT ON EVERYTHING ... and because of that we would not be as far behind the 8-ball as I thought ...

jeannie will RELY HEAVILY ON RAC and TRUST HIS OPINION ...

funny how thats changed when it comes to the conspiracy theories on BQ ... now instead of RACS ENDORSEMENT meaning sumptin ... now BQ is on shaky ground for the SOLE REASON that jeannie has not backed him cause HE HAS NO REASON TO ENDORSE ANYONE AT THIS POINT ...

*LOL* .... amazing watching the spin master at work ... SIMPLY AMAZING ...

hint hint hint .... it works much better with the LOW HANGING FRUIT BRO ..

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I hope he lights it up in camp so that we can put this question to rest, and believe you me, Quinn has questions to answer.

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he does not have ANY QUESTIONS TO ANSWER in my eyes ... he can do it all ..... U SHALL SEE ... amd Jeannie knows it ... that will play itself out ..

as for camp ... DA shines in shorts and tee shirts .. to bad we can't play that way on sundays ...... if DA is still here he may very well outplay BQ in camp ... but BQ WILL STILL START cause there will be NO COMP(they may say there is .. but it won't be a "real" one) ..... and then he will PLAY WELL and finally SHUT U THE HELL UP ...

it didn't seem to fit his style though. maybe that was part of the in-fighting with savage that split the FO? was he told to say that? or was that his decision...this was the guy that flipped a coin

It's apparent you don't read me either,as i brought up something along that same vien sometime last week,or earlier this week,IDK.
Although I don't view Quinn as favorably as you do,all this talk of trading him has been good for several chuckles and some really good belly laughs.Unless some team gives up the keys to FT.Knox,he's not going anywhere.
Logical thinking tells me Mangini and Kokinis didn't get where they are at by being stubborn or stupid,and trading Quinn would fall under one of those two categories.
It looks to me like your boy is going to get his chance here,I only hope they can get a RT to protect him,and it would be nice to have a reciever that can,you know,catch the ball.

I suppose it depends on what type of offense the coaching staff is trying to go in. If they go towards a more WCO then I think Quinn is more suited. However if they want a vertical offense like Chud put in then Anderson or Cutler would seem to be your preferred choices.

Now Cutler is a headcase but the guy has talent. He's a more consistent version of Anderson. Quinn is still a large unknown. But the only way I pull this trade off is if somehow we come away with Cutler without giving up too much or we appear to be the overall winner in value.

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Logical thinking tells me Mangini and Kokinis didn't get where they are at by being stubborn or stupid

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Both are where they are because of Randy, or EM is a DC somewhere and Kok is still in B-More. Nobody but us cared about them, EM was good enough in NY to get fired, and Kok has never been a GM.

No need for the media to hate of them, but I can see the fans frustration and confusion on some moves they've made.

And to this point, both look extremely stubborn, and eager to mark their territory and bring in former players they have history with.

This QB thing could really help or kill them, swinging a deal for Cutler triples our chances of winning now, and over the next 5-10 years. Dealing away Quinn and trying to have DA run a WCO, would mean total disaster. So would trading Quinn, a possible franchise QB, for Campbell, a game manager.

Also losing Rogers would seriously hurt the team, their rep, and create yet another mega hole.

Another Quinn vs. DA thread.

j/c

I don't see where us getting involved in a 3-way trade is viable enough for us. Some team would have to over-pay greatly to make it worth our while. I don't really see that happening.

We don't need to go after Cutler ourselves and over-pay for him, it's not necessarily that much of an upgrade for us. The only thing I think would work for us is a straight Cutler for Quinn and our 5th for their 12th. Denver would probably want more and there's no value in more from our end.

Rogers, I'd give his agent permission to seek a trade. He's never going to be more valuable in the league than he is right now and I believe in selling high. Which is what we didn't do with DA after the 2007 season.

The-rarity-of-the-Cutler-saga

Posted by ESPN.com's Bill Williamson

A large part of the intrigue of the Jay Cutler fiasco is that it is so rare.

Sudden divorces between young, standout quarterbacks and their teams seldom occur. When teams get ahold of young, talented quarterbacks, they usually try to hang onto them. Every team's goal is to get a franchise quarterback.

The Denver Broncos, who drafted Cutler with the No. 11 pick in 2006, clearly thought he was that player to lead them for the next decade-plus. Now, thanks to the mess that began with Denver considering trading him three weeks ago, which resulted in Cutler publicly asking for a trade, that plan is in jeopardy.

What seemed inconceivable three weeks ago could now happen. A 25-year-old Pro Bowl quarterback who isn't in his prime yet (he has started only 37 NFL games) could be traded. It just doesn't happen much.

Here is a look, going back 15 years, at some of the QBs who were traded in the middle of their careers and how it worked out for them and their new teams.

We will start with Jeff George, who is the most comparable to Cutler because of age.



George
Jeff George

Year traded: 1994
Age: 26
From where to where: Indianapolis to Atlanta
Cost: Two first-round picks and a third-round pick.
How it worked: George had some success in Atlanta, but he didn't live up to the trade cost. He got his passing yards in the Falcons' run-and-shoot offense and the team made the playoffs in his second season in Atlanta. But the George-Falcons marriage fell apart in 1996, his third season with the team. He was shipped to the Raiders in 1997. It began a vagabond NFL life for George. He ended up playing for seven teams in 17 NFL seasons.
Compared to Cutler: Cutler will be 26 next month. George was 26 when the Colts traded him. He was considered a young gun as Cutler is now.


Johnson
Brad Johnson

Year traded: 1999
Age: 30
From where to where: Minnesota to Washington
Cost: First-, second- and third-round picks.
How it worked: Johnson played well in 1999. He blossomed into a star and he had one of the best seasons ever by a Redskins quarterback, making the Pro Bowl. It seemed as if Johnson was worth the steep price, but he made a lot of mistakes in 2000 and fell out of favor. He was traded to Tampa Bay after the 2000 season and won a Super Bowl in his second season with the Buccaneers. Johnson, released in the offseason by Dallas, has had an average NFL career and he wasn't worth the bounty the Redskins gave up for him.
Compared to Cutler: Not a very similar situation because he was already 30 and the Vikings had Randall Cunningham when Johnson was dealt.


Mirer
Rick Mirer

Year traded: 1997
Age: 26
From where to where: Seattle to Chicago
Cost: Mirer and a fourth-round pick were traded for a first-round pick.
How it worked: Mirer was a high-pick flameout in Seattle after four years and his career didn't take off after the trade to Chicago. He barely played in Chicago and was cut the following year. The Bears gave up plenty for Mirer and he never was worth the cost. Mirer flopped around the league, playing for five more teams after being cut by Chicago.
Compared to Cutler: Yes, Mirer was young when he was traded, but he already was a failure as a starter. Cutler is establishing himself as a premier player.


Green
Trent Green

Year traded: 2001
Age: 30
From where to where: St. Louis to Kansas City
Cost: Green and a fifth-round pick for a first-round pick.
How it worked: Pretty well. While Green was injury-prone often in his career, he was a solid player for the Chiefs. He was a legitimate starter in his six seasons with Kansas City and the Chiefs were regular playoff contenders. Green wasn't a star, but he was a solid player and he gave the Chiefs a chance to win.
Compared to Cutler: Not very similar. Green was older, but he wasn't as established as Cutler -- he had started only 19 games before he was traded.


Schaub
Matt Schaub

From where to where: Atlanta to Houston
Year traded: 2007
Age: 25
Cost: Two second-round picks
How it has worked: Schaub has the look of a solid player. He has been a starter since going to Houston. He has battled injuries and growing pains. But the Texans remain committed to him and he seems like he could have a good future. It appears that it was a worthwhile trade for Houston.
Compared to Cutler: Schaub was young, but he was a backup with very little game experience when he was traded, so his situation doesn't compare as well to Cutler's as George's does.
If you want to go further back, you can look at Brett Favre and Steve Young being traded, but again they don't compare to George and Cutler.




Favre had almost no game experience when he was dealt from Atlanta to Green Bay in 1992. Young, who was 25 when he was traded from Tampa Bay to San Francisco in 1987, was a backup for several years after he was dealt. And, of course, there is Matt Cassel, who played a central role in the Cutler fiasco. He was traded to Kansas City along with linebacker Mike Vrabel from New England for a second-round pick after one effective season with the Patriots. But we have no idea how that will play out.

Quarterback trades are not completely foreign, but their success rates vary and the reasons usually have to do with age and skill level.

Cutler is young and has shown he can play at a high level. Thus, as you can see, there are few trades involving quarterbacks that compare directly to Cutler. That's why this situation is so rare.

Link

Just curious...In all those examples did any of those QBs demand to be traded...or was it the Organization that traded him.

I would appear to me to be the latter so that means there were reasons the trading team had for trading the young QB and all got the best of the deal.

In the Cutler case its not the team shopping him around. He's demanding to be traded.

JMHO

I still don't think he'll get traded............McDaniels is an idiot if he trades a proven Pro Bowl QB who is 25 years old. You kiss and make up with them, and stroke his baby ego. Surely JM can't be that big of a moron.........and I'm not a big Cutler fan, but when you have one who is 26 years old and improving you don't show him the door.

I know its almost as stupid as us trading Rogers....lol of course Rogers ain't making half the noise that Cutler is.

But it would be stupid of McDaniels. Bowen (owners name???) told Cutler he was the man when Shanahan got fired and McDaniels hired.

If this becomes McDaniels move...he hasn't even started his first training camp and the Owner has to be 2nd guessing his hire. If McD has a losing season in 09 and starts out slow in 2010...I would predict that he would be GONE!!!

He'd be a fool to start out this way...thats why in every move talked about the key is for Denver to get BQ And if we are the AAA club for Denver thats a good one. Oh we might move BQ but it has to be an OFFER that we Cannot Refuse...something borderline Silly and Silly in our favor.

JMHO

The problem is Toad they see Parcells, Bellyache, and others get away with it, and figure we can to...........Mangi ain't none of those guys, and neither is Mcdaniels. It seems Mangi at least tried to make it right with Rogers (after the fact), whereas Mcdaniels still wants to think he's Billy with Cutler (if you believe Cutler's report).

Sorry it doesn't work that way into today's NFL..........what should be and what are are 2 very different things. I mean McDaniels has backed himself into such a corner on this that he could walk away with what amounts to a Cutler for Quinn swap.........I love BQ's potential, but I don't make that trade if I'm the Donks without multiple picks.

Maybe Pitt was on to something about the rookie HCs.....lol....

Agreed !....However , assuming that McDaniels is that stupid , and Mangini wants Cutler , he should go out and get him , IF the price is right !....Under that scenario , IMO we would also have to trade Anderson and than add a Veteran Backup QB....(Who that might be is anybody's guess....).....