DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Cleveland Browns adding a receiver

Quote:

---

Toad, who is going to give us what Braylon is worth knowing that they only get him for one year, and coming off the season he had last year? Answer: nobody.

---

Quote:

---

Toad, who is going to give us what Braylon is worth knowing that they only get him for one year, and coming off the season he had last year? Answer: nobody.

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Toad, who is going to give us what Braylon is worth knowing that they only get him for one year, and coming off the season he had last year? Answer: nobody.

---

A lot of teams renegotiate contracts to extend them after a trade. That's what we did with Rogers. He was going into his final year.

---

Quote:

---

He's under no obligation to renogotiate or sign a new deal to the team he's traded to. I'm talking about what's guaranteed to the other team if we trade him for picks, and that's the remainder of his current contract. Nothing more.

---

Quote:

---

I would love to see Domenik Hixon in Cleveland as a Brown.

---

Quote:

---

...and Edwards is going to want a very lucrative deal, which he's not going to get based on his lousy season last year. No team is going to give us adequate compensation in the form of picks AND sign BE to a huge deal coming off of his 2008 performance. BE isn't going to sign for peanuts. Teams aren't going to trade for him if he's not going to extend his deal with them.

BE isn't going to sign a deal unless its the deal he wants, and nobody is going to offer that deal until he shows that he can return to the form he showed in 2007.

---

Here's where I believe your logic is incorrect, Adam.

The Giants have allready offered a package for Edwards: A receiver and two draft picks.

That clearly states they are more than willing to trade for him, AND give him a contract extension............Which brings us all the way back to the original point

Quote:

---

The report stated a 2nd, a 5th, and either Hixon or Manningham. We countered with the picks and Smith. The Giants passed.

---

Quote:

---

Remember, Braylon didn't hate Cleveland until Cleveland started hating him.

---

Neither here nor there. We don't want to open that perticular can of worms, hehe, suffice it to say he wants out and like some players he can't play well when he's unhappy.

I'd much rather get rid of him now while his value is still high than take our chances that he'll tank a second year in a row and lose his value.

If the organization had made moves to be a contender, I'd probably not be for trading Edwards. However, here in the real world where they've started a rebuilding program, the emphasis is on the future, not really the present. We've made a bunch of lateral moves designed to cut out the fat (Shaffer) and the problematic (Winslow). Edwards is clearly on the hit list, as we're very interested in moving him. Even with the decrepid state of our receivers, we're talking about sending him packing. All signs continue to point to a rebuild, so I'm for losing his 2009 production and getting something back to use in the future.

I'll be honest here. If they gave us a 2nd this year and a 2nd next year, give me Hixon and I'd sign the deal. Since the regime has made it very clear we're looking at the future and not the present, then I'm all for stockpiling picks. We could do a ton of damage with four 2nd rounders in the next two seasons...........

Phil,

Quote:

---

Remember, Braylon didn't hate Cleveland until Cleveland started hating him.

---

Quote:

---

That’s a decision Giants GM Jerry Reese reportedly had to make. And he apparently wouldn’t do it.

According to a report in The Giant Insider, the Giants and Cleveland Browns were involved in brief trade talks recently in which the Giants asked for Edwards and the Browns wanted Smith (plus some draft picks) in return. The trade didn’t happen, obviously, but the article (you need a subscription to TGI read it) does speculate that the talks could heat up again as it gets closer to the NFL draft.

I can’t confirm the story for you at the moment. But it certainly was a hot rumor for a while that the Giants were going after Edwards, though the rumor (which I previously told you was untrue) was that the Giants were dangling DE Mathias Kiwanuka. TGI’s story confirmed the Kiwanuka part was bogus.

What TGI says actually happened is that the Giants offered Cleveland the two draft picks they got in the Jeremy Shockey deal (a second and a fifth), and the Browns said they wanted those picks and Smith. The Giants said no to that, according to the story, but offered an alternative of the picks plus Domenik Hixon or Mario Manningham.

At that point, the story says, “Cleveland balked and the talks died.”

I don’t blame Cleveland for balking, if they really did. The 26-year-old Edwards has outstanding size (6-3, 215) and is just two years removed from an incredible, 80-catch, 1,289-yard, 16-touchdown season. Yes, his numbers were down this year (55-873-3) and he led the NFL in drops (16), but he has a bigger upside than most of the receivers in the NFL — definitely a bigger upside than Hixon or Manningham.

The only downside to Edwards — other than the dropsies — is that his contract is due to expire after the 2009 season and since he’s already making $4.55 million it’s a good bet he’s going to ask for $8-10 million per year.

(Update: It just occurred to me that if there’s no CBA signed by next offseason, Edwards would only be a restricted free agent next year, which means his cost for 2010 would be a lot less. In fact, his team would only have to offer him a tender at 110% of his 2009 salary to keep his rights. That’s $5,005,000).

Still, I’m guessing if the Browns really shopped Edwards around they could do better than a second, fifth and Hixon/Manningham.

From the Giants’ perspective, with Plaxico Burress in limbo Smith is the best receiver they’ve got (57 catches, 574 yards, one touchdown last year, but with only four starts). I’m sure the Giants envisioned pairing Edwards with Smith, not swapping them. With two second-round picks, though, I wonder if there‘s a way to sweeten that offer and keep Smith out of it.

Again, I’m not confirming anything. I’m just pointing out an interesting report and giving you all a little something to debate during this slow time of year.

---

Quote:

---

take a look below.

---

Maybe I'm missing something (or maybe it's you ) but I'm summarizing the deal:

A 2nd and a 5th plus Hixon or Manningham. Doesn't matter how we got there. That was the framework of the deal. We wanted Smith instead. The Giants didn't want to give him up. So we said no.

What's the difference?

EDIT:
Ok, I now believe you're just confirming trade value. I guess I misread or misunderstood where you were going with all that.

Quote:

---

I'd much rather get rid of him now while his value is still high than take our chances that he'll tank a second year in a row and lose his value.

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Remember, Braylon didn't hate Cleveland until Cleveland started hating him.

---

And remember Cleveland loved him until he kept on dropping passes.. He catches passes/performs we will love him. Cleveland is a football town, live with it...

---

Quote:

---

Toad brought that fact up, not me, but he's the one that doesn't want to talk about it.

---

Quote:

---

So, basically, you believe we're better off keeping Edwards and hoping that he turns it around AND decides he wants to stay in Cleveland. I get that you don't want to lose his production, and acknowledge we don't have any current weapons to replace him ( ). With numerous draft picks or someone like Smith in-hand, we can accelerate the rebuild.

Bottom line here is that you believe it's worth keeping him while I don't. If we were trying to contend this year, I'd be with you, but the regime has chosen a different direction, so I believe it's best to stay with that line of thinking and move Edwards.

---

I think you need to go to bed

Quote:

---

We have no clear vision of where this regime is going.

---

I disagree.

Two days after free agency opened I was pouting because I saw the direction we were going. That was confirmed when we dumped Winslow. It was further confirmed when we gave three negative ROI players (Joe, Tucker, Shaffer) ultimatums to take a paycut or get lost.

The path is clear (where's that Jarhead Ooorah when I need him *L*): We're in a rebuild mode. By taking serious interest in moving Edwards, we've further established that we're rebuilding for the future, not the present. I fully agree that KokGenius have more to work with than Savage, but by not plugging holes with upper or mid-tier free agents, they've gone in the direction of rebuilding.

(Yeah, I can't sleep. Happens like this too often )

Unfortunately, because they've tried to get leaner instead of trying to get bigger, we have to stockpile more picks. Moving Edwards would be a step backwards for this upcoming season, but I think it'd be better in the long run.

Like I said, if we got a good deal from the Giants, we'd end up with at least three 2nd rounders. We could do some real damage with this ammunition:

5th
36th
45th
50th

In essence, we'd be trading Edwards for the Duke Robinson's and Shon Greene's of the draft.

Deep down, I don't like the idea of moving Edwards, but I think it's a necessity.

Quote:

---

We're in a rebuild mode.

---

I get your point...but let me play devil's advocate...

In calling this a rebuild, you cite us trading away a mouth hobbling through the last 2-3 years of his career for a first day pick, and cutting two serviceable but aging lineman and a receiver coming off seven medical cuts...not exactly a fire sale.

...when (*when* ) we start to ship off Edwards, Rogers, Quinn, DA, etc. ... then I'll admit it's a rebuild.

For the most part I agree with you...but I still hold a small belief that Mangini thinks he can just tinker with parts and win...and it's completely speculative, but on the tandem front, I don't think cute nicknames are necessary...from the outside, Kokinis seems to be rather decorative to me.

By all means...........Devils Advocate is something I use and applaud

Quote:

---

...when (*when* ) we start to ship off Edwards, Rogers, Quinn, DA, etc. ... then I'll admit it's a rebuild.

---

a "rebuild" will mean different things to different people, so the truest meaning is going to be dependent on the individuals desired context. However, while the lines aren't razor-sharp but dulled, I view three basic directions for a team:

1) Go-for-broke.......All-in
2) Making lateral moves designed to trim the fat, tweak the roster, and build towards a desired direction
3) Completely blow up the roster as a failed design, not only on the field but in the lockerroom and in the books as well

#1 Are teams like the Cowboys and Redskins, who have no problem throwing money and draft picks at players in the hopes of winning the Super Bowl now.

#2 Are teams like us, who are "rebuilding" the roster by weeding out the negative players while installing so-so players who'll be "ok" now with the future clearly in the crosshairs. Future cap-health is a priority, as is acquiring draft selections to build the core of the team.

#3 Well, the best example was what Savage inherited several years ago. He dumped the 4-3, and in-so doing had to dump a bunch of defenders who either couldn't play in the scheme, or simply couldn't play at all. He blew up most of the offensive line and filled it with a bunch of mediocre stop-gap players. Drafted a project at QB and installed a fading veteran to hold the reigns.

Quote:

---

...when (*when* ) we start to ship off Edwards, Rogers, Quinn, DA, etc. ... then I'll admit it's a rebuild.

---

That's right Just by the fact that we seriously talked about unloading Edwards tells you all you need to know, hehe.

So, based on my own criteria, we're rebuilding. We weren't in bad cap shape, forced to unload big contracts to get under the threshold. We simply adjusted the ROI equations, and are intending on stockpiling draft picks.

Don't be surprised if both QB's remain in Cleveland. I understand their silent routine, but if they really were backing one QB or the other, the smart thing to do would have been to put him out in front of the team as the leader of the offense. They've done no such thing. While we all laughed at Crennel's inept style of saying "each position is up for grabs" in camp, knowing damn-well he was FOS, I get the sense that Quinn and Anderson are going to have to earn the job. Quinn and Edwards weren't picks by this regime, and they know it. Edwards knows where he stands by now, as Savage isn't here holding his hand. Same goes for Quinn. Crennel's proclamation that Quinn is the starter and $5 will get you a latte at Starbucks *L* I think they'll both be here........unless a big offer comes for one or the other.

Ok.....off to try to get to sleep (again)......

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Toad, who is going to give us what Braylon is worth knowing that they only get him for one year, and coming off the season he had last year? Answer: nobody.

---

When deals like that are made, the new team ALWAYS gives the new player a new contract. That's part of the agreement.

Setting that aside, what IS Braylon worth? Apparently, he's worth a 2nd, a 5th, and a reserve receiver. One team was willing to give us that allready.

---

Quote:

---

The guy just stated that he's not trading BE and yet the speculation continues.

---

Quote:

---

We have some nice depth players now, if he hits on the first three picks, things could be looking up.

---

Quote:

---

all the articles said that we were offered the 2nd and 5th from the saints ONLY. we countered with asking for smith in addition to the 2nd and 5th. they said no, but we could have manningham or hixon in addition. take a look below. first bolded section supports what i said but the second bolded section gives some perspective on edwards' value from an outsider's side.

Quote:

---

That’s a decision Giants GM Jerry Reese reportedly had to make. And he apparently wouldn’t do it.

According to a report in The Giant Insider, the Giants and Cleveland Browns were involved in brief trade talks recently in which the Giants asked for Edwards and the Browns wanted Smith (plus some draft picks) in return. The trade didn’t happen, obviously, but the article (you need a subscription to TGI read it) does speculate that the talks could heat up again as it gets closer to the NFL draft.

I can’t confirm the story for you at the moment. But it certainly was a hot rumor for a while that the Giants were going after Edwards, though the rumor (which I previously told you was untrue) was that the Giants were dangling DE Mathias Kiwanuka. TGI’s story confirmed the Kiwanuka part was bogus.

What TGI says actually happened is that the Giants offered Cleveland the two draft picks they got in the Jeremy Shockey deal (a second and a fifth), and the Browns said they wanted those picks and Smith. The Giants said no to that, according to the story, but offered an alternative of the picks plus Domenik Hixon or Mario Manningham.

At that point, the story says, “Cleveland balked and the talks died.”

I don’t blame Cleveland for balking, if they really did. The 26-year-old Edwards has outstanding size (6-3, 215) and is just two years removed from an incredible, 80-catch, 1,289-yard, 16-touchdown season. Yes, his numbers were down this year (55-873-3) and he led the NFL in drops (16), but he has a bigger upside than most of the receivers in the NFL — definitely a bigger upside than Hixon or Manningham.

The only downside to Edwards — other than the dropsies — is that his contract is due to expire after the 2009 season and since he’s already making $4.55 million it’s a good bet he’s going to ask for $8-10 million per year.

(Update: It just occurred to me that if there’s no CBA signed by next offseason, Edwards would only be a restricted free agent next year, which means his cost for 2010 would be a lot less. In fact, his team would only have to offer him a tender at 110% of his 2009 salary to keep his rights. That’s $5,005,000).

Still, I’m guessing if the Browns really shopped Edwards around they could do better than a second, fifth and Hixon/Manningham.

From the Giants’ perspective, with Plaxico Burress in limbo Smith is the best receiver they’ve got (57 catches, 574 yards, one touchdown last year, but with only four starts). I’m sure the Giants envisioned pairing Edwards with Smith, not swapping them. With two second-round picks, though, I wonder if there‘s a way to sweeten that offer and keep Smith out of it.

Again, I’m not confirming anything. I’m just pointing out an interesting report and giving you all a little something to debate during this slow time of year.

---

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/giants/2009/03/did-giants-nix-smith-for-edwar.html

---