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Dawg Talker
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I see you are stateside again,congrats.If you ever make it up this way we''ll hoist a few and talk about warm hofbrau.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877
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As I said, you're a hoot. But you really need to slow down and read what I'm saying. I never said the coaches or FO don't work hard. I just said they need to work harder. Unless you think 4-12 and 6-10 are good enough. Let me guess, you're one of those guys that believes they should all get a trophy for trying hard.......  As far as your attitude, well, it's nothing I haven't seen before. Reminds me of our good friend coachb. Gee, he turned out to be such a swell fella. There's never a person you don't feel superior to. Good luck with that as you work your way through life. Sorry, bud, I don't think the fans are to blame for a crappy football team. And I do think the Browns owe us a better effort than we've seen the last 10 years. You enjoy watching crappy football, more power to ya. Me, I hold them to a slightly higher standard.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 601
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 601 |
Ya man would LOVE to do that. I was hoping to make it up in May to see my Dad but looks as if he is transferring jobs and won't get the vacation time... Actually I wanted to catch a Playoff game at the Q but was using him as an excuse  ... Last Cavs game I went to was before I enlisted and was against the Bulls during their dynasty years...
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Hall of Famer
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Quick change is Palmer after 2 and "continuity" is Crennel after 4?
Four years is "continuity" now? Was blowing up the assistant coaching ranks smack in the middle of that part of the "continuity"?
In today's NFL, yeah, 4 years is the epitome of continuity.
Same GM, same HC, same structure.
I can't think of an organization who lost three out of four seasons in the modern era (let's say the past 25 years) that DIDN'T make big changes.
Now, let's be clear about this: There are organizations that had MORE continuity, but they......you know......were successful  We weren't, and neither was Crennel.
Now, after the fact, knowing what we know now, neither guy was good at his job. Lerner was applauded for keeping up continuity, but would have been an absolute idiot for keeping Crennel. At least Savage had done some good during his time here in his job.
So to answer your question, yes, 4 years IS continuity when the team was just flat-out bad 3 out of those 4 years.
Besides, what organization keeps all it's assistant coaches for four years anyway? None, that's which one, hehe.
We've gone quick-fix and we've gone stay-the-ship. Neither has worked. That's a function of bad personnel men, bad coaches, and bad players. Lerner has tried'em all.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Legend
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Legend
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1. CrazyOtto...I see you've been busy making friends again...lol 
2. Toad...on your discussion with ddubbia on the Continuity thing. Got news for you - its pretty much "CONTINUING". As you can see we are not blowing up anything.
42 guys returning.
17 starters remaining out of 22.
A core of young players drafted or traded for.
Yes, some will be considered expendable like KW2 or possibly even BE if the price is right cause lets face it...their positions in the scheme of things are not Foundations. Or rare commodities.
But we will Build and "CONTINUE" under the same Character and Mantra...if anything actually we will move forward and actually DEFINE that Character and establish it. A major negative of the RAC regime and thats partly to blame the split up of RAC n SAVAGE from being on the same page.
And the 4 years that you say is fine for the NFL norm - it is not for the Browns for the simple reason they NEVER GOT OUT FROM UNDER THE GRASP OF EXPANSION!!!
Yes, the norm these days to establish a viable program is considered 3 years. But those people come in with solid foundations of existing talent...if they don't fit the new guys - they get valuable investments in RETURN.
RAC had no such foundation. 05 was a complete tear down. 06 was the first build up...07 brought in success....08 was a complete fall down and disaster.
But from day one it was told to all that it was a 5 year plan cause they had to start from scratch. This new regime with some assembly of a foundation of young talent will be on a 3 year - possibly 4 for the SB run but 3 for the Success to take hold as a max.
I don't think the continuity thing is done. We are moving forward with NEW n Change but still keeping the Continuity at hold as much as possible.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
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Legend
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Not that you are, but to implicate Lerner as a fool who can't cut it as an owner is risky business.
I'm not. But something is organizationally wrong here. At best I can hope it's Randy's learning curve and that he is coming around. I think his decisions lately, while not very successful (Present regime excluded because we don't know yet) have still been made with more sound thinking than some of the original ones which appeared to be somewhat haphazard. I think he's learning.
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then it could possibly be that Lerner doesn't know how to put the right men in place. If that turns out to be what happens, it would probably be wise to hire a football man to make ALL the decisions, and retreat back into his office.
I concur.
I think Randy is learning, perhaps most importantly, he appears to be learning what he doesn't know, which is sometimes the hardest lesson for successful folks to learn.
If you look at every failure to success story in the NFL you see a convergence of factors, it's seldom just one thing.. One thing can get you a blip on the radar (perhaps like the Cardinals this year if they can't sustain it).. but long term success requires that a few things happen simultaneously... A quality coach, a good personnel guy that has a few high draft picks that work out, some success in FA.. the players staying healthy... etc.
yebat' Putin
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Posts: 9,955
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I just pray Randy isn't really a Mike Brown. 
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Lerner spends money, ergo he isn't Mike Brown.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367
Legend
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Legend
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Spending money is far from Mike Brown's biggest problem.
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No, but that's one of his biggest problems. From not spending money to upgrade the fascilities to not spending money on players and most important of all to not spending money on front office people or scouts, he has a long, proven history of being a tight-wad who tries to squeeze 6-cents out of every nickel.
As of 2008, the Browns had 11 scouts on staff.
The Bengals had 4.
No, whatever Lerner's issues are, he's not even remotely close to a Mike Brown.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367
Legend
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Legend
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While on the surface it's quite easy to point at his frugality, which I don't dispute, his main issues are that he's convinced that he can do the job of a general manager, he is also convinced that the number of scouts he has is more than adequate to find great talent, his unwaivering stubborness that despite years of failure that he still believes the things just mentioned are true, the fact that he will give no control to a head coach and undermines their decisions, and the fact that he is completely confident that not changing a damn thing is going to produce different results. The money thing's an easy thing to point to, that's why the national media latches on to that one. The truth is, the problem lies deeper and is not going to change....and I love it. Lerner may not have had as long to prove his ineptitude, but so far the results have been about the same. He's not near the control freak ostrich that Brown is, that I'm sure of.
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Would you happen to have a picture of a "Control Freak Ostrich" because THAT'S something I'd pay good money to see (not to mention post up in my GM's office when he's not looking)
I am aware that Brown thinks he's a GM. I can only hope that by examining the way Lerner has been trending, it'll show us that he's learning (albeit damned slowly) that he's got to turn all football decisions over to football people. Savage was a step in that direction, and Kok is a further step in that direction. However, I think we're in agreement that if this duo fails, Lerner needs to just throw up the white flag, sign the checks, and hire pure football people to hire football people 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Legend
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Legend
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If your clueless about football people, how do you hire the right football people to hire your football people?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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you take ex-patriots
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Quote:
If your clueless about football people, how do you hire the right football people to hire your football people?
The league has search committees.
I believe that's how Ernie Accorsi got involved with the Falcons and later us, when Lerner saw how the Falcons got turned around.
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Posts: 17,475
Legend
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Legend
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"Ernie Accorsi got involved with the Falcons and later us"
Accorsi was a family friend of the Lerners and Randy summers in Long Island and made sure their paths crossed over plenty of dinners in the City and for all I know Ernie and family came out to the Hamptons as a guest of Randy's - Its how they role out there 
Oh if anyone wants to visit me and go to the Hamptons...make a date...we'll meet and then DRIVE BY...
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 259
2nd String
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2nd String
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 259 |
Quote:
"Ernie Accorsi got involved with the Falcons and later us"
Accorsi was a family friend of the Lerners and Randy summers in Long Island and made sure their paths crossed over plenty of dinners in the City and for all I know Ernie and family came out to the Hamptons as a guest of Randy's - Its how they role out there
Oh if anyone wants to visit me and go to the Hamptons...make a date...we'll meet and then DRIVE BY...
Do they have a McDonalds in the Hamptons?  
Hope springs eternal in the heart of a true Browns fan. GO BROWNS!!!!!
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