DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum The Failure of the Self-Esteem Movement

Are we 'Good-job!'-ing our kids to pieces?

Educators and child development experts say the self-esteem movement of the 1980s did kids a disservice and adults should resist over praising.

By KATE McCARTHY, Special to the Star Tribune


On a recent soggy morning, Mark Theissen covered a lot of ground fast in his first-grade classroom at Vadnais Heights Elementary School. He sprang from station to station, encouraging students to finish and focus -- sound words out, craft Lego configurations mathematically, grip Crayolas in the correct way.

He asked questions but didn't back-pat; he prodded but didn't praise. Nor did he carry the ball, merely offering assists. That's because when Theissen, 36, began teaching in 2000, the backlash against overpraising children was in full swing.

"I try to avoid complimenting them all the time," he said. "If they get strokes for everything, they expect it, they think everything they do is great -- and they don't want to push themselves. I think they need to develop self-drive and the need to perform for personal satisfaction, not recognition from others."

But affirmation overload, most experts agree, is indeed a tough habit to break.

It began as the byproduct of the 1980s self-esteem movement, in which parents and teachers were told to reward and stroke kids pretty much constantly, supposedly to make them confident.

Dr. Ernie Swihart, an author and behavioral pediatrician at South Lake Pediatrics in Minnetonka, decried the self-esteem movement from its inception. Then, as now, he believed kids should be taught to be inwardly focused, self-sufficient creatures able to shift their own gears.

Real self-esteem -- for all of us -- comes from overcoming an obstacle-laden challenge, he believes, with hard work. Lavishing praise, he contends, is counterproductive and, if anything, makes kids needy and voracious for that other self-esteem-movement buzzword: validation.

"It's had serious repercussions," Swihart said. "These young adults who were raised in the '80s, now in their 20s and in the workplace -- those who received praise, rewards and prizes for everything they did without working very hard -- often are very entitled and self-absorbed.

And in this economy, baseless self-satisfaction and entitlement are dangerous. Those are the people who are first to be let go."

Kids need honest feedback

But the overpraise culture still exists. Go to any baseball field this spring and you'll hear parents calling out "good job" and "great swing" to a kid who fans the ball by 6 inches. What they probably should be saying, if anything, Swihart says, is the more honest "no big deal," "next time" or "that's OK."

If all kids get is kudos, it can be a recipe for lots of therapy later, he says: What are they going to do when they get even the slightest bit of criticism later in life, in college or on the job?

"The roof falls in. They should get honest, but not hurtful, feedback," Swihart said. "Steady, ongoing correction."

Steven McManus, a family therapist in Golden Valley, agreed.

"Although I think this [over-praising] movement is basically rooted in good intentions, these are often the young adults I see as clients," McManus said. "Often they have difficulty at conflict resolution, disappointment or tolerating any negative emotions at all."

Rheta DeVries, a professor of education at the University of Northern Iowa in Cedar Falls, classified overpraise of children as "sugar-coated control." "All teachers are well-intended, and I don't like to criticize teachers," DeVries said. But if they praise early and praise often, it can foster kids who clamor constantly for recognition, like seals barking for fish.

"[Overpraising] manages children's behavior. And, though we mostly know it's counterproductive, we still hear it all the time. Established universities are sending out student teachers and the only thing coming out of their mouths is 'good job,' 'good job,' 'good job.'

"It's like a verbal tic."

Reining in the praise impulse made immediate sense to Theissen as a new teacher, he said: It just rang true that cooing and gooing at kids all the time builds outer-directed praise junkies. In the nine years since, he's become even more convinced that gushing over every small accomplishment backfires, coddling kids to their detriment.

Although Theissen tries to run a platitude-free zone, he conceded that it can be a challenge. At home, the father of three young children and his wife (also an elementary school teacher) sometimes catch themselves starting to "good job" their own kids.

"I guess we're just all so ingrained to it," he said.

A culture of superlatives

In academia, the praise culture has led not just to grade inflation, but grade obfuscation. At Vadnais Heights and all its elementary schools, the White Bear Lake School District's policy is to grade students as "Needs to Improve," "Progressing," "Progressing Plus," "Successful" or "Exceptional."

Which raises the questions: Huh? Progressing from what? From a B level or a D level? From above average or below? Theissen concedes that today's grading systems can confuse, whereas "parents know what a C means."

But we are loath as a culture to use letter grades, pointed out Becky Farber, principal at Carondelet Catholic School in Minneapolis and a former teacher and middle school director at the Breck School in Golden Valley. Farber said all teachers ascribed, at least for a time, to the praise-them-to-the-skies theory.

"We all tried it in the '80s -- until we sort of realized en masse that it wasn't genuine, and it wasn't effective."

But even though the pendulum has swung back, Farber said, it remains largely a culture of superlatives. We're reluctant to call anyone -- and anyone's performance -- average.

"We tell everyone they're great and excellent and the best," Farber said. "And so they go around thinking, 'Wow, we're the best' at whatever -- say, basketball. And then they play Hopkins, and they realize, 'Maybe not.'

"Even Garrison Keillor classifies all the children of Minnesota as above average," she said. "There are these sad and negative connotations to the term, but the truth is, most of us fall in that bell curve, the bell curve of average.

"Why are we so afraid to say it?"


http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle/family/42687007.html?page=1&c=y

Very good job posting this Jules! You're doing so well!

Luckily, my parents didn't take part in this movement. I'm reminded of the Woody Allen quote from the movie Bananas:

I had a good relationship with my parents. They rarely every hit... I think they hit me only once, actually, in my whole childhood. They, they, uh, started beating me on the 23rd of December in 1942, and stopped beating me in the late Spring of '44.

Good stuff, Jules! I REALLY like what you did here, and the letters are arranged beautifully. I taught for over 30 years, my dad for 40, my wife for 35, and have a sister still in it. I believe still in the need for praise, but have hated most of the self-esteem movement, and have seen little if any benefit to many beyond the chirpy presenters for professional development. There are those who need it seriously, and it is a major consideration for their growth. But Jules is right when it says "Kids need honest feedback" in her post.
Artificial praise is lying. Praise for good work well done, for whipping a tough challenge (especially if leery of trying it), for exceptional effort are all "praiseworthy" in Seinfeldese. But to soak a class, on a regular basis, to sidetrack correction as part of instruction, even to give false feedback, are dishonest. I may have been a snake oil salesman, but not this lifestyle of shallow deception. Some want it, others demand it, even require it. And I have been blamed for not "praising" an underperformer with a bad 'tude less than the teachers who saw this as a goal and an end in itself, but required way too little. Challenge equals growth; outcomes dictate success. Honest feedback must be based on product; if Johnny-san made a lousy writing effort, but is up to ability, I say, "Good enough. This meets the requirement. You did a decent job. Some others have really gotten this. Talk to A, B, C at lunch; they can show you how maybe a little different is maybe a little better. This is OK, though. I am proud of you."
That last part goes a long waY TO DOING SOME GOOD THINGS. Artificial praise rarely does. Kids know when they are being lied to and it breaks the process down. I will climb off the hickory stump now, but this reliance on a once-favorite flavor of the day works no better than the idea of lots of testing makes you lots smarter. Nope. Shows who is underprepared or unprepared. Nothing positive in relying on a bunch of gimmicks. Part of why wife and I and dad got out of the Biz.

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Good stuff, Jules! I REALLY like what you did here, and the letters are arranged beautifully.

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Yeah Jules, that reminds me, I keep forgetting to congratulate you on your new job as a writer.

When I was growing up and playing baseball, my dad (who was the coach) gave me praise at times he probably didn't need to (like saying "good cut", etc.) But, more often than not, instead of "praising" me, he'd ask what I did wrong, what I could do differently, etc. Try to get to why I failed and make sure it didn't happen again.

It really makes you wonder if this whole self-esteem thing is a big reason why so many of that generation (which I probably belong to) have the attitude of "when something goes wrong, it is not my fault, but everyone else's." I mean, if you're brought up thinking that everything you do is correct, when you make a mistake, you're naturally going to think "what did someone else do to make me fail."

You have to make mistakes and fail in life. That's how you get experience. Hopefully, the mistakes and the failures are little ones, but if you never have the little ones, you'll have no clue how to deal with the inevitable big ones.

I'm a ghost writer.

Does this mean they're going to start letting kids LOSE games again?

j/c

Thinking about it, I think we were able to negate the "self-esteem movement" by watching the Browns. If in the rest of your life, people kept propping you up, being a Browns fan just kept bringing you back down.

The Cleveland Browns saved my life!

FYI, I played dodgeball in gym class, got picked on on the playground, had my tests graded in red, had teachers tell me I was stupid, had one teacher write on a paper "I don't know how you can even call this a research paper", and yet I turned out ok. Amazing, right?

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... had teachers tell me I was stupid

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I doubt I'd be very happy if a teacher told my kid that he was stupid.

Not saying it was right of them to do it, and not saying my parents weren't upset at it, but it happened. My parents didn't ask for the teacher to be fired, we didn't file a lawsuit, nothing. Hell, my parents probably agreed with her!

My first grade teacher pulled me up to the front of the class and told me I was going to fail if I didn't get my act together. My Mom paid her a visit and then she was much nicer to me. No idea what she said to her and Mom doesn't remember.

I had transferred schools and I guess my first school didn't learn me enough.

i hear ya... I wouldn't want the teacher fired either, but an apology would be in order, in front of the whole class... of course, in Canada with the militant & omnipotent teachers unions, a teacher has to practically draw a gun and shoot a kid to get fired.

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My first grade teacher pulled me up to the front of the class and told me I was going to fail if I didn't get my act together. My Mom paid her a visit and then she was much nicer to me. No idea what she said to her and Mom doesn't remember.

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Your mom simply said, "Remember, if you fail her, you'll have her in your class again next year." Problem solved.

My wife is Jewish, I was raised soft-Catholic. We pretty much live like Jews now because frankly I care less about all that stuff than she does. For me it's chicken or steak.... We send our 4 yr old daughter to a Jewish day school in the area that is "reformed" or religiously looser but a lot of orthodox and conservative children attend as well as some non-Jewish kids because it has a pretty good reputation and isn't stupid expensive.

I had a conversation with the main "mora" or teacher that handles my daughter's class and I found it very illuminating. They pretty much run their classes like kiddie boot-camp. They're reasonable and loving, give priase when it's earned and look for what a child does do well but they really are very no non-sense. It was my wifes observation that they don't over praise at all. They don't scold loudly and they don't seem overly negative either, rather they just run the room like the expectation is that the kids behave and do what they're told and somehow it works. Of course I'm gathering that they teach form a tradition that dictates they be 100% consistant in all commands and never ever change their minds or direction as a point of principle with dealing with young children. They display no second guessing at all and the children don't challange it. It's funny, the children jocky for just basic approval. As children get older you have to be more flexable IMO.

Not to be over generalizing about a group but I don't think it's a coincidence that the Jewish kids in our area do pretty well academically as compared to the wider pool. There's lots of factors or course, this being but one small part of it, but the culture of accountability and having to raise yourself up is definitely an important part of it. I think it's important that young ones have plenty of time to just play and there really is no such thing as too much love and affection but common sense dictates that you have to provide an up and a down, better and worse, a world with gravity. If everything is equal and all things they do and touch are great then it's a vacuum and they'll seek gravity by finding the floor first.. if that makes sense to you. As Miles Davis once said... there's no freedom in freedom, there's only freedom in structure.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Forrest Gump was one smart man

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Kids have to get use to losing sometime. I think it's probably better to do it at a younger age.

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Exactly, they could grow up to be Browns fans, then where would they be?

Great post, 10yr. And I love the Miles quote. Stravinsky said something very similar, as well.

Even now, we're seeing the legacy of that 80's philosophy at my wife's work. An entire generation of young "professionals" are phoning in their jobs every day, taking liberties with job perks, turning in sloppy incomplete work, and expect praise and attaboys to be lavished upon them on a weekly basis.

My wife is as no-nonsense as they come, and will absolutely refuse to give unwarranted praise. She's not above showing encouragement or acknowledging improvement, but you gotta earn it. They hate her.

Interestingly enough, there's another supervisor on staff who is just the opposite. She'll pump up the praise for any little thing, and write glowing newsletter articles about folks who can barely tie their own shoes. They hate her.

Picking up a theme here?

This attitude of entitlement has warped their sense of responsibility and eroded the morale and culture of their workplace. The job sucks, the bosses suck, the very nature of the work sucks... (sigh). For adults who get more "fake praise" in a year than we got in half a childhood, they are some of the most unhappy, unfulfilled, miserable people I've ever met.

I don't think it's a coincidence. They spent so much time being told that they were all "winners," they've all turned into losers. The worst part about it is that they can't even see how miserable they are... and I doubt that most will ever discover a better way to be.

Wow... talk about an absurdly BROAD generalization. So, based on the very limited sample defined by those "young professionals" your wife has come in contact with, you're writing off an entire generation of young men and women.

I work with no fewer than 25 young men and women of that very generation and I can tell you, without reservation, that they are smart, dedicated, accountable and hard-working individuals. They love their jobs and are great to be around. Most importantly, the customers they serve think very highly of each of them and pay BIG money for the services they provide.

I'm pushing 50 myself and I won't deny that I've seen evidence of the apathy you speak of in a number of younger folks I've come across. However, my experience tells me there are plenty of young professionals out there who would make any company they work for proud. Perhaps the organization your wife works for needs to do a better job of screening job applicants.

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Wow... talk about an absurdly BROAD generalization. So, based on the very limited sample defined by those "young professionals" your wife has come in contact with, you're writing off an entire generation of young men and women.

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not at all.

I'm only talking about the folks I've met at her job. I suppose I should have been more specific in my first post... I can see how you may have thought I was talking about milions of people. I assure you I was not.

My personal story is similar to yours, as well. I'm actually in my 50's. The group is populated with a good number of 25-30 year olds, and they kick butt on a daily basis. I respect them and enjoy a good working relationship with all of them. They bear little or no resemblace to the bunch who work for my wife.

Sorry for the misleading post. I just wanted to clear that up.

My experience has been closer to Lifer's... we have a handful of young folks here and most are hardworking and dedicated... the occassional slacker slips through our hiring process but they are quickly discovered and don't last long.

some will depend on the employer as well, as in who did the hiring IMO

I worked at one place and the entire IT dept. was a group of slackers, but the programming dept. here is very well oiled and works hard

That's cause IT is like the Maytag man, we just sit around and wait for something to break.

We are an engineering consulting firm and we have about 14 people in the office. If we are hiring a fresh-out-of-college type, (or a college co-op) we let the young engineers interview them first and make recommendations.. we tell the engineers, YOU have to work with them and train them more than upper management does, so you get first crack at telling us who you want to work with. They know that if the person they recommend is a slacker, the work will fall onto them.. so they make pretty good choices. The vast majority of the time we go with their recommendation and most of the time they get it right.

My girlfriend's ex-aunt raised her kids this way. Everything they did put these kids on a pedestal. Now, when they don't get picked in the yearly family softball game, they literally throw a temper tantrum. Kicking and screaming, on the ground with full on sobs. When they get told no, they blow up. I didn't like the movement back in the 80's when i went through it, and my parents never got into it. But seeing those kids makes me hate it even more ...

Just my opinion here, fwiw.

It seems that raising one's kids that way is borderline cruel, for this reason alone: Daily Life don't give two squats worth about the individual, and is going to throw hardship, challenges and disappointments EVERONE'S way... hundreds of times in a lifetime.

A parent's main and most important job in life is to ready their little kids for adulthood. Part of becoming a successful adult is dealing with adversity, and rising above it. If parents don't help their children to develop those skills from an early age, adulthood for them could possibly be a long, bitter slog into old age and death.

It's actually unfair to the kid, and sets him up to be devastated by things other more grounded kids would be able to deal with. Life's competitive enough, without trying to navigate it with fewer coping tools than the competition.

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Educators and child development experts say the self-esteem movement of the 1980s did kids a disservice and adults should resist over praising.

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That reminds me...which is it right now, are eggs good for you or bad for you?

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That reminds me...which is it right now, are eggs good for you or bad for you

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today, they're ok.

ask me again tomorrow, however.

We are.

I relate things to sports.

The numbers of kids kids who play baseball are in decline and the kids who play soccer are increasing.

Baseball is a game where even the best at a pretty basic level fail 60% of the time.

In soccer, if the kid manages to kick the ball away it becomes a "good job" moment.

I don't mean to be demeaning, but any semi retard can kick a ball.

If you can't learn to fail, you are going to have a tough time in life.

Play baseball if your want to teach kids how to deal with failure....and that is a important lesson.

If you're talking in terms of five year olds...I guess?

In terms of the sports themselves...it's much, much harder to be successful in soccer than in baseball.

I think what Phil means, is that the work/reward ratio is MUCH tougher in soccer than in baseball. You can "kick" the ball in soccer, but it's not going to get you any sort of reward. You don't get any sort of reward until you string some passes together, get past the defense, and put the ball in the net. And even then, it usually only happens a few times a game. In baseball, you can get a single even if you don't get a home run, and the scores are usually a lot higher. Granted, I think there's a lot more room for FAILURE in baseball, where you can strikeout or make an error on the ball. However, you can still fail in soccer too ... missing the goal, missing a tackle, etc. It's not just as high as in baseball ... although the "sucess" rate, isn't as high either.

I just think Peen is in the old-school "Soccer is for Communists" crowd.

Yup, Peen would be some old school: apple pie, baseball, and Hank Williams, Jr. singing Country Boy Can Survive.

Some high-society lady says..."is your horse outside?" No mam he's between my legs and your to fat to ride....and your learnin'....alittle more bout my ways...


lol...two votes for jr.... apple pie sounds good two