DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mangini has a secret, but fans can read his depth chart

If you're looking for an OLB I'd say Brown and Maybin would be the two best. In the 2nd round there are a few guys you could land with your first 2nd round pick that would be real good OLB, and would start from day one. Clay Mathews, Connor Barwin, Michael Johnson, and Lawrence Sidbury will be good OLB in the 3-4.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d...mp;confirm=true

^Link to the top hybrids in the draft.

Not an Orakpo fan as a 3-4 OLB. I think his hips are way too tight. He would be a great pick if we played a 4-3 - JMO.

Everette Brown looks fast and has a tremendous spin move. The issues that bother on him are 2-fold. 1st - I keep reading in scouting reports that his best atribute is that quick 1st step. If we move him to Olb instead of DE does that neutralize his quick 1st step. 2nd - looking at his highlight reel on youtube it looks like a lot of his sacks were against air (meaning he didn't beat a guy straight up but rather had a clear path to the Qb meaning that the sack was because of scheme). So I think his numbers may be a little inflated. Still he looks pretty good. I am not saying I wouldn't take Brown, just that I don't know how significant these issues are and that I wish I had more tape on the guy and the time to look at it.

Brown is my favorite guy in this draft. I am hoping to see his in depth scouting reports, and see what is said about him in those areas. It does concern me some, but I think he still has some growing to do. He was a junior, so I think he has lots of upside.

Remember this about Brown. He had 21.5 tackles for a loss (3rd in college), and he had some forced fumbles. So he can make the plays.

"I like Hall against the run. He is good at sealing the edge. He just needs to add some bulk and he can be good there"

Perhaps in your capacity as a scout you've seen him at the collegiate level,where your above statement maybe true,but in the NFL,Hall is a liability.At times he was a passrusher,but he wasn't consistant enough to be called that.
He needs more than bulk and strength.He needs one or two years of good coaching before he can be considered an everydown LB.In other words he's a project,just the type of player you'd expect to find in the later rounds.

jc

don´t know where else to post this....great article imho from Matt Bowen, ex-player

By Matt Bowen
Posted April 15, 2009

The Decline Of The Browns

Considering that Braylon Edwards is reported to be changing addresses soon, and Kellen Winslow is hanging out in Tampa, I have to wonder what’s going through the minds of Browns fans today — and this is just the beginning because Brady Quinn might be the next man Eric Mangini sends out of town.

Is there a plan in Cleveland?

I thought I knew earlier this week when I laid out five questions about the Browns, but judging from the reactions I’ve either heard or read, there’s some dissension among fans in the city along the Lake Erie shore.

How did it come to this?

Well, for starters, the Browns decided to hire head coach Eric Mangini before they brought in new general manager George Kokinis — a sure sign that this is Mangini’s show to run, all the way from personnel moves to game days.

But as we’ve seen, Mangini is a tough guy to get along with — and Cleveland’s offensive playmakers are being shipped out of town. I wrote the other day that Winslow isn’t the type of tight end Mangini was looking for — and I still believe that — but the guy can stretch the field. Is this a case of Mangini bettering his football team by turning the tight end back into another lineman for the running game, or is this a case of spring cleaning — Man-Genius Style?

Next on the list is Edwards. Look, we all know he has a tendency — or a bad habit—of dropping the football. But does that mean you unload your only — and I mean only — viable weapon at wide receiver when you’re expected to have this “so-called” quarterback competition? Doesn’t make sense in Cleveland. In New York? Without a doubt. But reports have surfaced that Edwards is not the type who will mesh well with Mangini. So I guess then the Browns get rid of him, too.

Unfortunately, when Browns fans look at their current list of receivers, they might want to vomit — profusely.

Let’s check them out (minus Edwards):

Donte’ Stallworth: Who knows where this guy will be in September. His legal issues might make the 2009 season an impossibility.

Josh Cribbs: A poor man’s Devin Hester. Line him up at WR and you can forget about using him as a creative device on offense. Last season: 2 catches, 18 yards, 1 TD.

David Patten: 13-year vet signed in the offseason. A third or fourth WR on most rosters. Last season with QB Drew Brees in New Orleans: 11 catches, 162 yards, 1 TD.

Yes, I understand the Browns have a lot of interest in Texas Tech’s Michael Crabtree, but who doesn’t? And who’s to say Crabtree isn’t gone at No. 4 to Seattle?

Something to think about.

The Quarterback

If Brady Quinn is so loved in Cleveland, why do I constantly hear that Derek Anderson is the choice of this organization? And is there really a deal that’s going to go down before April 25 to move the former first-round pick out of town — possibly in the same cab that Edwards is taking to the airport?

I almost feel that the quarterback derby Mangini promised us was only a distraction from his real plan — buying time to find a team willing to take Quinn off his hands.

That Brady Quinn jersey you just bought might be a collector’s item now of a player who was given three total games to prove he was ready to play in this league. How about at least giving the guy an honest shot in a competition to see what he can do? Maybe, just maybe, Mangini could have seen that Quinn was the best man for the job.

I realize this is all rumor until it happens, and I’m clearly not going to say Quinn is a goner until I see it officially go down. But why are there so many reports that have his name in the headlines along with the words “trade” and “first-round pick”? Because it’s probably going to happen, that’s why.

Cleveland, you have to wonder, right?

Professional Suicide

Cleveland deserves a winner on the football field — it really does.

This franchise was ripped off when it took the club and ran away to the east coast. It was considered a good business move at the time. Well, what they’re doing now isn’t. If you look at the three players we’re talking about, you’ll see that they all came to Cleveland as first-round draft choices:

Brady Quinn: First Round, 22nd overall, 2007

Braylon Edwards: First Round, third overall, 2005

Kellen Winslow: First Round, sixth overall, 2004

Is this good business? To let go of young, talented, first-round draft choices before they hit their prime?

I don’t think so, but then again, I’m merely a journalist with a football background. Who do you hang your hat on, Cleveland fans? Who do you come to the stadium to watch on Sundays this fall? Jamal Lewis? Derek Anderson?

Beyond the wins, losses and injuries on Sundays is the fact that people are supposed to be in those seats watching. The more talent, and the more recognizable faces, that you take away from these fans — players they have adopted as their own in this great football town — the more risk you’re taking that they won’t show up.

That I do know.

Is Mangini the right choice?

As I stated (or perhaps ranted) in my previous post on the Browns, Mangini needs time to build the roster to his liking — not ours. But as I sit here today, how much time?

I know for a fact that when Mangini arrived in New York, he wasn’t the same coach he was as an assistant in New England — and that’s coming from the Patriots players he brought with him to wear the green and white Jets uniforms.

“Power hungry” might be the correct phrase to use in this slot.

I’ve written plenty of times here at the National Football Post that playing for a new coach in this league is tough on the players. It’s a major adjustment and requires a lot of sacrifice compared to the old regime that used to walk the building floors.

But in saying that, I also know that it’s a give-and-take issue.

Players have to adjust, and so do the coaches who are now in the building. You can’t run out your top offensive weapons without a legitimate back-up plan, and you can’t treat players like they’re college kids — because they aren’t. They’re called professional athletes for a reason.

I don’t know what the future holds for football in Cleveland, but I do know that the upcoming draft will tell us a lot. We’ll see who’s really running the show by the players selected, and we’ll also see what current Browns will soon find themselves working for someone else.

I could be completely off base here with my assumptions. Obviously, Mangini is the coach of this team and I’m not — but that doesn’t hide the fact that his moves up to this point have all of us scratching our heads.

I hope, for the sake of Browns fans, that I’m wrong and that Mangini turns this franchise into a winner because Cleveland deserves it.

If not, well, thank goodness for LeBron and the Cavs.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/04/the-decline-of-the-browns/

you don't give up do you...lol

yeah Mangini is a piece of crap

he's not the coach he was in NE - A fact yeah okay.

just curious I dont' even know...but just what Pat players came with him to NY?

How many stayed on the roster? meaning weren't released by Mangini as a Jet?

I looked at the present roster and couldn't see one that I remembered wearing a Pat uni in 05??? But as long as its a fact

So this guy played football don't make him smart.

He's calling it a travesty basically to trade BE. So just what does he suggest when he hits FAgency what will happen. Don't give the guy away...but he will not be here for long term. And although might happen its hasn't yet. And the BQ thing is less than likely than BE.

Power Hungry....

for rumors...the freakin guy in Denver shipped out his Franchise QB for real. BQ is still an unknown commodity.

JMHO

Most people learn from past mistakes.


I think Mangini will as well.


Time will tell.

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Most people learn from past mistakes.

I think Mangini will as well.

Time will tell.

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I think so as well. People can improve. I sure hope Mangini keeps what works, and tries something new for what doesn't. That goes for his personality and football smarts.


Now, I have said that losing Braylon would be an awful blow to the offense, but in all fairness, our other guys haven't always gotten their chances. Braylon and Kellen get separation, Edwards dropped the ball last season, Winslow had a bad year, and continues to fail as a blocker. The other guys we have haven't exactly gotten their chances, and we won't know until we see.

And that's simply in all fairness.

I like Edwards, and am not sure how I feel about losing him for a first round pick. Whether we get Crabtree or not........

I simply think that if our O-Line plays better and we're better prepared, overall execution will make our receivers more productive. In that, I want to trade him.

But, he's better than what we saw last year and a new coach might be a good thing for him. We'll have him for at least another two years as a fairly productive receiver. It must be a difficult decision for management to figure out.

Lol, does this qualify as a Haiku?

@EO

I think what Bowen intends to say is that we don´t built any "team", we have no stability, no contiunity...most teams re-sign their 1st rounders who turn out to be good, or protect them 1-2 more years with the Tag...

I agree with trading BE and KW....because they became distractions and aren´t really football smart...I don´t like guys like that on my team...but why Quinn? and even if he´s not moved..why pretty much throw up your whole roster up for sale with the exception of Dqwell and JT? What´s the point? Building a stable team? or patting your ego?

Look at Tomlin...sure he had a better roster...but did he move any starters? I know there was a player turnaround when he arrived but that´s normal with any team, every year but he did not trade any players because they "didn´t fit his style"....heck, he even kept the 34 D although being known as a 43 Tampa 2 wizard...that´s coaching 101 right there...I´m not a Tomlin fan by any means, I think he got away with a lot of stupid decisions and he gotta thank LeBeau and some refs for his success....but the guy did actually COACH...he coached the team he inherited to their strength and didn´t demand players to "fit his style" or players to mold how he wants them...that´s just stupid and just a big ego-pissing contest

Mangini DOES remind me a lot of Butch Davis...a good Football Coach who´s a control and power freak...like the author stresses...those aren´t College boys anymore....yeah keep praying for a "personality change" at age 40

What have you seen that makes you think he's a power freak/Botch?

I understand the Winslow thing. He sealed his fate when he bought the motorcycle.

Edwards is a financial decision. He is gone after next year. I want something more than a 3rd round comp pick in 2011.

Quinn baffles me. I do not believe that he has been given enough gametime experience with the "full" playbook to make an honest assessment. I like his mobility, and he seems to have his head on straight. I generally hold high regard for QB's that have a lot of college starts on their resume. Quinn has that. Sanchez does not have the number of starts, but playing for USC has to be a consideration.

I saw a big change in his Player relationship and Training camp procedures his 3rd season (after their only losing season under his regime).

It impressed me...but not only me most Jet players were on record on being totally surprised and actually happy with Mangini...and we are talking some his staunchest critics...turning to the positive towards Mangini.

So is he a better HC than he was in 06? Much much better and also very important why this HC experience before coming here just might be the best thing we could have!

JMHO

jc

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/04/diner-morning-news-draft-questions/

Where will Matthew Stafford go if the Lions don’t pick him?

This is the one question that Stafford’s agents, Tom Condon and Ben Dogra, must have answered in their own minds: If the Lions pass, where does Stafford fall to and how much of a financial hit will they take for not taking the Lions’ offer? The Rams have made it clear the one thing they are not doing is taking a quarterback. There’s a chance Seattle might take him, but it’s only a chance. I would suspect the Seahawks have Mark Sanchez rated higher on their board. The Browns? Who knows what they’re doing besides trading their whole team, but on the surface, Stafford would fit the big-arm theory that I’m hearing Eric Mangini wants in his new quarterback. Jacksonville? Again, not sure where he fits in their minds, but I did learn Tuesday that the Jaguars are going to pick the highest-rated player on their board regardless of position and most likely will not take a wideout in the first round.

All those words and I still haven’t answered the question, right? I sense there is no answer, and that should cause Team Stafford some concern and maybe push them into doing a deal with the Lions. Right now, it’s all about leverage, and I’m not sure Stafford has a guaranteed landing spot if the Lions pass. The value of being the No. 1 overall pick is very appealing, and Stafford must think of all his options as he weighs them in the next few days.

What I find amazing is most of the talking heads say in any other draft these two QB's wouldn't even be taken in the first round and then they talk about who might be tempted to move up to make sure they get one.. LOL

Kinda like the last piece of candy in the jar..not your flavor but it's there and too darn tempting to let someone else eat it.

I've been laughing at articles like this for weeks. Ya right, the Browns have been "trading their whole team".........Kellen in the only one so far. Sure we have a few people on the block, who doesn't leading up to the draft. Having them on the block doesn't mean we've traded them yet or we even will.

Shouldn't the Pats be labeled as "trading their whole team" too? Heck, they traded Cassell and Vrabel. That's one more than we did!

We´re about to trade 2 or maybe 3 of our last 5 years 1st round picks...Cassel was their backup QB and Vrabel has played 1000years for them and they didn´t invest anything in them...that´s the difference I guess

so let me make sure I understand this ... YOU AGREE with Jeannie trading KW and will agree with him if he trades Brey .. yet u agree with Bowens assesment that we have no plan and jeannie has no clue even though u DISAGREE with 2/3rds of his PROOF of this ... *LOL* ... well all righty then ...

Bowen wants to know why he keeps hearing about BQ being gone .. my guess is cause he WORKS FOR A GUY that is basically the only one I've heard or scene say it since the Cutler RUMORS passed ...

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The Browns? Who knows what they’re doing besides trading their whole team, but on the surface, Stafford would fit the big-arm theory that I’m hearing Eric Mangini wants in his new quarterback.

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huh ... I really like Lombardi ... but now hes starting to sound like most of the dolts in the C-town media .. hes gonna lose me if he keeps this up .. he canlt have it BOTH WAYS ...

WITCH IS IT MIKE ... are we interested in the BIG ARM guy like DA/Stafford/Favre or are we interested in the ACCURATE/SMART guys that can make all the throws like BQ and Sanchez but do not posses the BIG ARMS ..

pick a SOURCE ... ... and go with it Mike .. MAKE UP YOUR MIND ... your way better than this ....

Eo ... if we do not trade Brey this year he odes not walk away as a FA next year ... we can still TAG HIM and get sumptin in return .. and after his performance this year ... it should be MORE ... i have no clue how it could be less .. *L* ..

don't get caught up in the BS bro and say things that are just not true just because there saying DUMB ASS things ..

3 short days from now we'll know whats going on ...

Personally ... I just hope that whatever they do works.

I'm past caring about this player or that player .....

I might have opinions on who I think is better .... but I just hope that whatever they do works.

Yeah, I understand both sides...I´m just defending the outside view....there are not many teams that do this, right? So it seems odd and IT IS a sign of INSTABILITY....Me personally, I don´t like BE....but as a Coach you have to do what´s best for the team....and I´m not 100% sure if it is the best thing to let him go for a very low 1st...

I mean WE, as fans, KNOW the good and the bad Braylon...ManKok is getting rid of him without even trying....

let´s say we trade BE for Giants #29 and grab Crabtree at #5...what would we have done? Basically we start from scratch with a new #1 WR...we traded down from #5 to #29 to get Crabtree instead of BE....we have NOT filled a need

we give up BE and #5 for #29 and Crabtree....looks like a fumbled lateral to me any way you look at it...I really don´t know if that´s the best plan....short AND long term since Crabtree is unproven....he might be much better, he could bust...who knows? That said...I agree with ManKok that anything less than their 1st+3rd+maybe X is not worth it for us....

What I don´t get is...why don´t they fork over Kiwanuka?...it´d be fair...I wouldn´t want any picks, just Kiwa....they have 5 pretty good DEs over there (Tuck, Osi, Kiwa, Canty and Tollefson) PLUS 4 pretty good starting caliber DTs (Robbins, Bernard, Alford, Coefield) Kiwa is their 3rd best DE (and still top 20 DE in the NFL I´d say), it wouldn´t be devastating for them...and they can´t re-sign him anyway with so much money tied up for Canty, Tuck and Osi...it would make too much sense I guess

Not me ... I just wanna be right .... It's all about me ....

I don't think theres anyone on here that doesn't want what ever we do to be right (soup's gone isn't he ... *L*) ...

if we get rid of BQ and keep DA I would love nuttin more than to have him prove me the be more wrong than anyone has ever been wrong before ... that won't happen but i would LOVE TO EAT THAT CROW ...

and I think that goes for everyone on here no matter what side of this they come out on .. no matter how slim a chance they have of being right ...

Dude says we're trading the whole team..has that happened?
I thought it was a dumb thing to say..what is being presented is that no one should be untradeable..untouchable..and yes that includes Jackson.

U have a 4-12 team..there are only a few players worth protecting ..
I kknow the why's behind trading Edwards..thety aren't trading players just to trade..it's t get players in here long term who are football players and not distractions or not the best fit for the team.

Why don't the Gmen fork over Kiwanuka?
They want their cake and eat it to..I think they'd rather sacrifice a draft pick than a player...now if it were me I would insist on that..and if they don't bite tell 'em to go smoke their bleachers..I want this or no deal.

They don't want to give up Steve Smith then give me Kiwanuka..and a 1st..otherwise ..course I'm saying that but if the deal goes down, we'll see what the Giants actually give up.
Got news for ya, they ain't keeping all those linemen..

I have a feeling that the Browns aren't really happy with what they would be able to get from the Giants (I know I'm not) in exchange for edwards, but want the rumors to fly so the can get a 1st and third from someone a few picks earlier.

JMguess...

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Yeah, I understand both sides...I´m just defending the outside view....there are not many teams that do this, right?

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Ya ... I agree ... not many teams do this ..

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So it seems odd and IT IS a sign of INSTABILITY

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how is that a sign of instabilitly??? .... you've got this all wrong or your arguments are supporting the wrong conclusions ..

the instability part is that were on our 4th HC and 3rd "management" team in less than 10 years .. thats the INSTABILITY PART ...

getting rid of KW and possibly Brey is a sign of why those regimes are no longer here .... not instability ... there one of the variables that factor into the instability but Jeannie/coke wanting to trade them is not even remotely a sign of instability ..

EACH CASE IS DIFFERENT ... more on that later ..

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Me personally, I don´t like BE....but as a Coach you have to do what´s best for the team....and I´m not 100% sure if it is the best thing to let him go for a very low 1st...

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I'm not sure either .. thats why i could care less if we trade him or not ... what i do know is that i am certainly not going to CRUCIFY the new guys and start drawing conclusions on there fitness for the job with this as part of the criteria .. NO WAY .. heres what we know about Brey ...

1. personality/football smarts wise wise he does not fit the mold that Jeannie wants on his team .. U AGREE with that ..

2. he has problems holding onto the ball .. NOT GOOD for a WR ..

3. he is a FIRST CLASS in the Locker room ... he is a ME GUY ...

4. it is specualted he does not want to be here ...

so if we trade this guy I have no PROBS with it at all .. who is he .. the guy we saw in 07 (who still had way to many drops in the 2nd half of the season) that did some things very few WR's in the league can do ... or is he the COMPLETE BUM from last year??? ...

if he did not have the "head case" crap ... I'd be all for finding out before we let him go .. but with the brain issues and the dropsie issues .. if they say SEE YA ... i'll be fine with it ..

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I mean WE, as fans, KNOW the good and the bad Braylon...ManKok is getting rid of him without even trying....

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try what ... do u think they have a magic formula or potion they can give him .. *L* .. I'mnot quite sure what that means ... like i said .. TRY WHAT?? ..

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let´s say we trade BE for Giants #29 and grab Crabtree at #5...what would we have done? Basically we start from scratch with a new #1 WR...we traded down from #5 to #29 to get Crabtree instead of BE....we have NOT filled a need

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1. what about the #29 pick .. the player we get there can't fill a need?? ..

2. Brey certainly did NOT PLAY like a #1 reciever last year ... so who's to say he is a #1 reciever ... i know i have my doubts .. u don't have any .. in your opinion (or anyones that has a clue .. like your boy Bowen is suppose to have) ... in your opinion Brey is a BONIFIDE/PROVEN #1?? .. come on man ..

and for the record .. trade or no trade .. i want NUTTIN TO DO WITH crabtree at 5 ...

U have REALLY FLAWED LOGIC with that statement .. well unless your CERTAIN that brey is a #1 and the 29th pick could not fill a need .... granted the odds are not as high they fill a need as the #5 pick .. but we can still get a decdent player there that should be able to fill a need ... PLUS we may be significantly upgrading the WR position (or hopefully LBer with Curry at #5 regardless of what we do with brey) ..

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we give up BE and #5 for #29 and Crabtree....looks like a fumbled lateral to me any way you look at it

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read above ... that oughta clear it up for ya ..

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I really don´t know if that´s the best plan

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me neither ... thats why calling Jeannie and Coke goofy based on this being a MAJOR PART of the evidence is just STUPID and bad reporting in my book ..

its DUMB BRO .. there taking HYPOTHETICALS and then drawing conclusions based on them ..

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What I don´t get is...why don´t they fork over Kiwanuka?...

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I explained it to U earlier .. but u didn't read it or u just did not want to accept it .. they wonlt do that cause ITS SMART NOT TO ..

last year there two biggest problems were after osi went down they had NO DEPTH in there front 7 ... go look at there last 3 or 4 regular season games and teams just ROAD GRADED THEM in the running game cause they were tired and worn out ...

there other problem was when Plex shot himself ...

now they went out and solved the front 7 depth problem .. and there not going to RISK LOSING THAT AGAIN by trading away a VERY VALUABLE PIECE of that depth in Mitchell (he is VERY VALUABLE in that he can play OLB and DE and thats a rare trait) ... for THIS YEAR ...

they have a SHOT TO WIN NOW ... so they are not concerned with weather they can re-sign him or not ..... they do not want to give up there DEPTH and guy that will start somewhere for them BTW on the D front 7 especially in that DIVISION ...

that is a VERY SMART MOVE BY THEM ... and we did not even consider how GOOD BREY actually is on the field .. much less how he'd fit in the locker room and all the distractions he would have playing in NY ..

NA ... I WOULD NOT DO IT IN A MILLION YEARS if i were them .. well not for Mitchell ..

and i'm the same way with quinn, if the opposite scenario plays out.

"The Browns? Who knows what they’re doing besides trading their whole team, but on the surface, Stafford would fit the big-arm theory that I’m hearing Eric Mangini wants in his new quarterback."

meanwhile we made one trade and that was quite a while ago. And its not like we are not getting offers....I'm sure where there is smoke there is fire. So where are all these trading the whole team Then there is this "HEARING" yeah...like Mangini is "TALKING"

These bozo's just make this up as they go along.

JMHO