DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum A pre-pimp look at the draft.

For some reason, I see this as the root of your issues with him.. Don't get me wrong man, I may just boycott the boards after the BCS just for that reason... I too wanted AJ Hawk but it got to be rediculous for a few months after last years BCS... Juest resign yourself to the fact that it will be an OSU player EVERY year that gets pimped highly on these boards and somehow, you will make it through to April... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


And Toad, Vince Young is coming around and he was a run first, PURE Shotgun player in college... Granted he is 6'5" but evenso, he has that "it" mentallity that you crave in yoru leader... Troy does too and he will make a good QB after paying his just due on the pine somewhere...

[color:"white"]Well, in a small way, it is. I can guarantee you that if I go to other message boards around the league, there won't be one that has as much Troy Smith hype as this one, so yeah, I'm having fun with it <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

For right or wrong, I'm all about Frye getting more time. Bringing Smith in will wreck Frye's ability to lead this team and unify the city behind him. That in and of itself is worth baggin' on the selection of Smith.[/color]

Hasn't Brohm had 2 serious knee injuries??? I doubt Phil goes QB earlier than Rd. 3 if at all. If we do go QB, I want *cough, cough* Brady Quinn. He could start for us right now. If we did get Troy Rd. 2, I'd root for him the loudest. You have to admit though, A BIG part of Troy's success is his O-line. We don't have his O-line.

I watched Joe Thomas a couple of weeks ago and think this is the direction we should go. Troy Smith is a project and we are a year into one already. Thomas wore out the DE playing against him. On pass plays he was pancaking him and one time on a run the DE took a inside rush and Thomas took him and the whole right side of the Defense and wiped them out. The whole time I isolated on him only one time did he mess up, it was a stunt with the LB . He looked confused and the LB ran right by him. If we can get a good Francise LT and Le Charles coming back, we might have a offense.

I too, like many Browns fan do not want Smith on the team, but do say he is a day 2 pick at this point is insane. He is no later than early 3rd, and I think is proven leadership along with a strong accurate arm will only help him. Troy won't go to the combine, but will have a pro-day with Ginn much like Leinart and Bush last year. If he shines here, look for him to go to the Eagles in Rnd. 2. I think he could be a possiblity in a few other places as well.

The Browns will not pick a QB this year. If they do it will blow my mind. Pick up one in FA and move on. Frye looks to be improving behind a shotty O-Line.

Umm.

He's the overwhelming leading candidate for the Heisman. I'm not sure it's a local thing. <img src="/images/graemlins/saywhat.gif" alt="" />

I'm not hoping we pick him or anything - we have bigger needs, but if he's there in the second round....

I hope we don't have to make that decision.

My Steeler wish list for the first round is

Marcus McCauley
Patrick Willis
Michael Bush

as for Troy Smith....I see him as a 2nd to 3rd round pick...he makes solid decisions with the ball...has shown he can move well..and throw on the run...I dont see him as a 1st round pick...but I say yes to day 1

HACK

A rough look at things as Jacksonville and the Giants play.

Oakland 2 8
Detroit 2 8
Arizona 2 8

Cleveland 3 7
Tennessee 3 7
Houston 3 7
Washington 3 7
Tampa Bay 3 7

Buffalo 4 6
Miami 4 6
Pittsburgh 4 6
Green Bay 4 6
Minnesota 4 6
St. Louis 4 6

N.Y. Jets 5 5
Cincinnati 5 5
Jacksonville 5 4
Philadelphia 5 5
Atlanta 5 5
San Francisco 5 5

Kansas City 6 4
N.Y. Giants 6 3
Dallas 6 4
Carolina 6 4
New Orleans 6 4
Seattle 6 4

New England 7 3
Denver 7 3

Baltimore 8 2
San Diego 8 2

Indianapolis 9 1
Chicago 9 1

A couple of Comments..

I don't see Thomas getting by Arizona right now.
Quinn will probably go to Oakland
The Lions will not take a reciever, They may go defense.

So right now Cleveland is bunched with Tenn, Wash, Tampa, Houston.

Peterson may be available, although if Houston is drafting before Cleveland, he will go to the Texans. I suspect that Levi Brown or Blalock would be available as well.

Since we're looking for names of interesting players...who could fill roles in the draft...Here's a few that haven't been mentioned yet, who have impressed me this year...

OT
Aaron Sears - Tennessee
Mike Jones - Iowa
Ryan Harris - ND

OG
Kasey Studdard - Texas
Dan Mozes - West Virginia

RB
Kenny Irons - Auburn
Lorenzo Booker - Florida State

DT
Justin Harrell - Tennessee

DE
Quentin Moses - Georgia
LaMarr Woodley - Michigan
Brian Robison - Texas

These are not my top picks....I like Thomas, Blaylock and Grubbs anywhere they're available...but for a prospect list of seniors that will fill our needs... these are not first round options, but second, third or fourth round possibilities.....a good list to at least start with....

[color:"white"]
Why? Millen isn't gone yet <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[/color]

And winning the Heisman means what in terms of success in the NFL? I believe if you check the record,it means squat! The Heisman jinks is no accident. It has nothing to do with how your size and talent will transfer to the NFL. And if you look at former Heisman winners,you'll see what I mean. The odds aren't in their favor by any stretch of the imagination. And that's not a local thing either.
<img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'm on other boards also and the hype is there..
I stand behind what I've seen of him(even though I never stated Phil should draft him)..he's progressed EVERY year he's been at OSU.

[color:"red"]His size is an issue, no doubts about it. For every example of a short QB who made it, there are dozens that didn't despite rocket arms and mobility.Now as far as the talent level goes, in college, his receivers are wide open much of the time. In the NFL, he won't have that. He also runs a ton of his plays out of the gun, and that won't happen in the NFL. He may get 3rd down plays from the gun, but for the most part, he'll be under center.
[/color]
Funny how you laid that out...implying that working out of the gun/spread offense is going to stunt him somehow..when the reality is Tressel runs some pro sets when he wants to..the fact his WR's get open is a hinderence?
Ha..it should show how he goes through his progressions WHEN they're not open..his accuracy is there when they open, and covered..as I've seen him deliever the ball WHERE it needs to be..he DOESN'T THROW behind his man..
Isn't the taletell mark of a college QB is how he handles the offense and how he reads defenses?
What he CAN DO WITH/WITHOUT TALENT around him?
Don't you use that criteria YOURSELF on judging players?
Just because he's a OSU player(and you know the following that has) don't be stingy because of that..if he was on any other team doing the same thing would those STILL BE your comments?

Hack, I know the Steelers have really been looking hard at the S from LSU Landry. BTW hope u guys dont get him lol

Quick comment on Smith. He has to sell himself to the right general manager and i get the feeling with Shaub leaving, Atlanta could be the team in the 2nd.

The Browns are going to go back and take a look at why they arent scoring in the redzone. We have the receiving weapons. Charlie has more rushing TDs than our RBs and teams are taking away the bootleg. We lack the RB and OL.

Now again I think Thomas is long gone before we draft. Levi Brown isnt worth a first round pick. Staley will be late first early 2nd.

Peterson should be gone a lot of general managers have been drooling over him for some time.

Lynch is a possibility but he hasnt performed as expected in big games and Phil is big on the big game players and doesnt seem to draft west of the Miss. on anything other than Oklahoma players and that hasnt worked out well lol

Michael Bush uggg. We know Phil was at a lot of Louisville games last year but anytime you think of drafting an injured player, you will 2nd guess yourself over and over. I would love to see the kid as a Brown but I dont know if Phil would trade down a bit to make it happen.

Blaylock could very well be the guy. RG immediate future. RT down the road. Shaffer, Bentley, Fraley, Blaylock, Tucker would be a solid line.

Branch doesnt help scoring but another stud on defense, no one will complain.

Right now we would be drafting 6 but I expect that to change to about 12-16
As long as we arent in the top 8 we arent hit with the huge rook salary.

Mourg it's really muddled right now and won't shake out till March or so..
Right now I don't know where we'll end up slotted and where the kids will slot themselves either.
Plus we don't know the JR class declaring..
Blalock..I think it depends where he's slotted..

We have so few rushing TDS..and no one has busted one for any long gains..
So once again it's either the horses up front aren't getting the holes opened, the WR's aren't getting opened in the endzone and/or the playcalling down there ISN'T TAKING ADVANTAGE of the individual talents.

j/c

If I could have any RB...i'd take Darren McFadden right now. After the year Arkansas is having, there is no way he stays at Ark. I'd take him with my first pick then OL and DL from there.

[color:"orange"]He cant come out this year. [/color]

Teams are zoneing us in the redzone because they know they can cover the receivers and then come up in run support. Everyone is playing us pretty close to the same way and it shows no respect for the RB nor the OL.

Yep.. It's plenty muddy right now..

I looked around casually for a updated listing of our Cap position.. No can find, hopefully someone has a good list somewhere..

IMO, I'd like to get a Guard in FA this year.. Manuwai or Steinbach are the only ones that spin my propellors. My assumption is that we can make a run at one of those two and thats about it.. I have a feeling we'll be somewhat tight on Cap cabbage tho IIRC, the total Cap rises to approx. 109 million this year.

Regarding the rest of the line.. It will be an absolute umitigated disaster if Bents is unable to return. I notice that there is a near news blackout from Berea about that.

Fraley is decent and I think his play could improve with better Guards next to him.. we will need to improve the Guard position IMMEDIATELY if we wish to contend for a playoff spot in 2007. Hank can't continue covering his man and the Guards man too. (just as a side note: IF Bents is out of the picture and Braham from Cincy heals and they cut him.. I wonder if Fraley would play Guard and Braham cover the Center for a year? Hmmph.. too much thinking)

Okay.. that covers Guards.. As far as the Tackles go.. ::sigh:: I'm not a big Shaffer fan.. but, I think we'll stick with him and try to address the CB's.. Only 2 FA's I'd consider are Clements and Samuel. IF the big Badger LT is available in the draft at our pick.. you grab him and don't look back.

After that.. RB is on the shopping list.. RD is a fullback without breakaway speed and IMO, he's lost a step or 14. I'd like to play Wright more this year and see what we have there..

[color:"red"] IMO, I'd like to get a Guard in FA this year.. Manuwai [/color]
Stop there..thats it..with the money Phil has spent I think thats it unless he goes after a lower tier OG...

CB might be another area he goes in FA to secure since I doubt Baxter is returning..not with two tears..ouch..
Clements and Esante Samuel are the CB's I like also.
[color:"red"]Regarding the rest of the line.. It will be an absolute umitigated disaster if Bents is unable to return. I notice that there is a near news blackout from Berea about that.
[/color]

I don't expect to hear anything till offseason on Bentley.
[color:"red"] Fraley is decent and I think his play could improve with better Guards next to him.. we will need to improve the Guard position IMMEDIATELY if we wish to contend for a playoff spot in 2007 [/color]

Well Manuwai is the experienced guard I would target, and Sowells is supposed to take Colemens spot in 07..
Target Blalock in the draft..move him to guard.

[color:"white"]Do we know that Sowells is supposed to start next year? I'd be very surprised, and rather dissapointed, if we made that attempt. I simply don't think he'll be ready, as very few 2nd day, 2nd year guards are capable starters. [/color]

Yes according to Phils comments that he was redshirted in order to be ready to play in 07.
U didn't respond to may remarks about TS.

[color:"white"]No.....I didn't <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

And I wonder if "ready to play" is the same as "ready to start."[/color]

I'd definitely like to know what our cap room is like. Frankly, after last year's spend-a-thon, I can't see it being overly large.

Under the assumption that our FA budget is not going to be extensive, we should just stop thinking of the Steinbachs, Clements, Schaubs, etc. Our improvements will have to come through the draft.

Left tackle ain;t going to happen in the first round. We didn't dump all that money into Shaffer to ditch him after a year. Despite what alot of people say on here, he's decent.

But we do need OLine help and we need it at the Guard spots. But depending on where we pick, first round might not be the best spot to go after a guard. Typically, the top flight guards start going in the late first and early second. So if we hold our Oline pick until the second, we open up our options in the first.

Cornerback in the first. Baxter is done, Cutch will start declining over the next couple of seasons. And from what I've seen, first round corners don;t have a really high bust rate.

Why not? U usually don't hold back.
I presented what I see in him with no bias..
Ready to play in my book means he can go anytime.Said player doesn't have to be a starter but can play if put in immediately.
Ready to start means what it means..READY to take over a starter spot.

General reply: what if another Wimbley-type is staring us in the face in the first?

We saw how the lack of pass rush killed us Sunday. Do we dare go after another pass rusher?

I HIGHLY doubt it, but it's worth speculating.

That all depends on how you determine "supposed to start".
I think the leadership of the team is smart enough to start him only if he earns it.

That said, there is a direct quote of Opie saying that he envisions Sowels basically sitting and learning this season and them competing for a starting spot next year. Read into that whatever you want to.

[color:"white"] We saw how the lack of pass rush killed us Sunday [/color]

i'm thinking our weak secondary had more to do with that.

The QB from that team from the east had more than 4 seconds to throw. That's a lack of pass rush. Teams that effectively rush the passer look like a pack of wolves unleashed from a cage. Only one guy on our D does that and he's a rookie.

and folks need to learn that if you can't get pressure with just 4, your stuck in a Catch-22.

If you don't rush extra to get pressure, the QB has all day to throw.

If you do rush extra you've just hung the DB's out to dry and you probably just left a hole in your coverages.

Partially Knox..the bottom line is we rushed 4 and still managed to get only two face mask penalities and a hit(no tackle..THANKS EASON!) and several grabs at his jersey.
What we need is to have linemen who can pass rush plus use delayed blitzes within the scheme to counter this.

Since this is a draft thread we have a lot of DE's..Osh, Frasier, Kelley and Eason..anyone think McKinley is worth squat is fooling themselves.
We need to draft a true NT..and perhaps if Branch from Michigan comes out he'd be a target.

[color:"white"]Taking a wait and see with Smith and the discussion. I think I've been "not holding back" a little too much for my own liking as of late <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> You know me. I go in waves.

As for Sowells, I think ready to play is more about being ready as a sub, not ready to start.

Now I hope Savage knows what he's got in Sowells better than I do, but I'd rather draft a high rookie who can start, so that Sowells becomes a backup plan, then a starter in year 3 or 4. [/color]

No..no cop out <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />..this is about what I SAID to dispute your remarks NOT WHAT ANYONE else says..I'm not concerned what the other comments were..I know I am objective in regard to him or any OSU player.
I usually don't reep much props on them individually...I know what I see.
I want to see what you're really thinking ..is it HIM or that fact he's a Buckeye?

[color:"white"]Oh....You mean reverse-Homerism, hehehe.

No, nothing like that. I think Homerism plays a role, though I haven't ever considered you someone who talks without using your own eyes.

I have problems with his size, as I think he'll come in under 6' at the combine. I question the offense he's played in. I question how open his receivers have been and the difference it'll make that his receivers have been that much better than anyone else in the country.

I don't question his arm, or the progress he's made as a passer.

In short, I want to wait and see how he does at the post-season workouts.[/color]

Definately, you can tell Willie McG has slowed tremendously. He is getting singled teamed 2-3 yards away from the QB. I'd love to see McMillian show us his preseason wasn't an anomaly and can perform during Sundays but so far it hasn't happened.


However, is Leon more of a ILB or an OLB. He seems to be a physical freak and depending on where they plan on putting him would also influence what you're talking about. I'd like to see Wimbley and someone else attackign the edges, WMcG isn't that player anymore.

[color:"red"] I question how open his receivers have been and the difference it'll make that his receivers have been that much better than anyone else in the country.

[/color]
Sorry I don't hold that as a strike against him.He could easily over or underthrow a open WR.
They are SUPPOSED to get separation aren't they?
Do you question Manning when his WR's are open and he hits them?
I've seen Troy thread the needle with little room..so I am not concerned about pinpoint accuracy as he has that.He also goes through his progressions well.
If nothings there he take off.
Just like any young QB I have seen him force the ball ..he did it against Illinois/Iowa and Michigan, but he rarely loses his composure.
He has confidence in his teammates and will challenge them when things get tough.
His height is going to make many question his abilities.
So BASCIALLY it's the same arguement as with Lienhart..is he a system QB?
I don't believe that to be the case.

Until our CB depth was blown the hell outta the water, I was a strong advocate of going back to the stud OLB/DE tweener pick in the first round.

If we can shore up up the defensive backfield in free agency, I'd still like to go that route, the problem is the cost associated with doing that. Decent DB's cost a fortune in free agency (see Baxter).

what i meant by weak secondary is we couldn't afford to send anymore because we were weak to begin with. if we were good enough to man up we coulda sent in a safety or LB also, and had plenty of pressure on him. we do that though and he picks us apart every time.
we need to beef up our line and corners. lehigh's a keeper but i really would like to dump baxter. he's just been another suggs at a different position since he's been here. let's cut our losses and move on a little quicker this time.

They may have to dump him but there's probably a way to do it so as not to humilate him.
Perhaps partially pay him or something..
I agree the CB spot will need another veteran.
But to finish the season I still agree that running a delayed blitz is one of the options.
If its called and executed right it won't expose the DB's for too long.

I have not heard anything about the Steelers looking at the big FS....I would welcome him with open arms...but they just drafted Anthony Smith with their 2nd pick (3rd round) and seem to be pretty happy with him...so not sure they would look FS again so soon....but sometimes a good talent is to much to pass by...so I guess it could happen.

That being said...they also just signed Ryan Clark in the offseason...and he is quietly having a very solid season...

HACK