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U can drive vans across the Mexican border pretty much at will ... parts of the St. Lawrence are so narrow U can swim across from Canada to the US ... and there are at least 25 public boat docks on each side of the St. Lawrence that U could bring terrorists in to the US through by just getting on the boat in Canada and coming across .. but now there going to keep us safer by having us show passports at the SECURE ENTRY POINTS .. GENIUS ... that oughta help ..  we are a completely ASS BACKWARDS country at this point .. this makes NO SENSE WHAT SO EVER TO ME .... NONE ... U.S., Canada gear up for new border ID Tue May 26, 2009 (CNN) -- Americans and Canadians heading to the United States from Canada on vehicles or cruise ships will face new entry requirements beginning next week, the Homeland Security Department said. Americans and Canadians entering the United States will have to show a passport or other identification. Next Monday, the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative will begin requiring U.S. and Canadian land and sea travelers to present a passport or other documents denoting "identity and citizenship when entering the United States," according to DHS. Homeland Security Janet Napolitano will be in Detroit, Michigan, on Tuesday and Ottawa, Canada, on Wednesday and is expected to address this and other border security issues with Canadian officials. She and Canadian Public Safety Minister Peter Van Loan are to sign a law enforcement agreement in Detroit, and the pair will meet with reporters. The initiative was phased in gradually after the September 11, 2001, terror attacks on the United States and is the result of the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004. "The goal of WHTI is to facilitate entry for U.S. citizens and legitimate foreign visitors, while strengthening U.S. border security. Standard documents will enable the Department of Homeland Security to quickly and reliably identify a traveler," the department said.
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Yep, a passport to get to Canada, that's what we need. 
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It blows my mind that they can get up and say this STRENGHTENS OUR BORDER SECURITY ... we have 12 - 20 million illegal immigrants in this country and yet this is GOING TO STRENGHTEN OUR BORDER SECURITY .. (the fact that we can't narrow it down to less than 8 million oughta tell us a little sumptin about the severity of the problem .. and how the hell passports getting in from canada is going to help that is well beyond me) ..
all its doing is making folks like U and I jump through another hoop to go to and from Canada ..
AMAZING .... SIMPLY AMAZING ...
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Quote:
all its doing is making folks like U and I jump through another hoop to go to and from Canada ..
Well, that may be the desired goal. The US may want us to spend more money in the States. It will also reduce border traffic....which can help the border patrols find the other people that aren't supposed to be coming in.
As far as the easy areas to cross the border, if you know about them....the US knows about them. It's no easy task to monitor every inch of the Canadian and Mexican borders. I guess, they pick their battles differently than we would.
And we've needed a passport to travel to and from Canada by air for at least 2 years (may be 3 years).
Meh.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Like most things it's probably just 1 step. Like building a wall, it's not just going to appear overnight, you build it brick by brick. The old system of a driver's license was poor, as anyone can fake a DL. A Passport is a little harder to fake, thereby helping secure even just a little. And as time goes by they will probably do more. But then again, I'm sure way back when you could cross at will, people were up in arms they had to suddenly start showing a picture ID to cross. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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OK .. how anyone can think this is a good thing just makes me sad .. U guys appearantly just don't get it .. and no matter how inept the gov't is its gonna be OK by U ...
I could care less about having to show a passport .. that wasn't my point ..
THIS IS NOT STRENGHTENING OUR BORDERS ... not one little bit ..
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not to mention, the northern border isn't the problem....what are they doing for the mexican border?
this is the governments way of saying "look we did something" while not doing anything...
i won't be taking my family to see the falls....not for $660 in passports...stupid...
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Quote:
It blows my mind that they can get up and say this STRENGHTENS OUR BORDER SECURITY ... we have 12 - 20 million illegal immigrants in this country and yet this is GOING TO STRENGHTEN OUR BORDER SECURITY .. (the fact that we can't narrow it down to less than 8 million oughta tell us a little sumptin about the severity of the problem .. and how the hell passports getting in from canada is going to help that is well beyond me) ..
all its doing is making folks like U and I jump through another hoop to go to and from Canada ..
AMAZING .... SIMPLY AMAZING ...
Diam...you are making this out like it has no chance of helping at all! That can't be true.
First of all, all the illegals from the south know exactly the penalty if a terrorist comes from their border. Our best defense is probably the Mexicans themselves...they are going to be the first ones to speak up if someone is posing as one of them who are not. I'd venture to bet that most of them love this country more than most Americans themselves.
I don't look at this as 'Americans needing passports to enter Canada' but rather the opposite...'Others needing a passport to get into our country'. How can we tell our own from others if NO ONE has to present the same document? Especially with how high-tech forging documents has become.
We can't solve problems overnight but I think this looks like a good thing not a bad thing.
Yes, there are holes but I would say there is three to five times the chance terrorists would come from Canada (and have in the past) so anything tracking that traffic is a good thing.
![[Linked Image from thumb0.webshots.net]](http://thumb0.webshots.net/t/34/34/0/73/58/2594073580091396520Miskbz_th.jpg)
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The initiative was phased in gradually after the September 11, 2001, terror attacks on the United States and is the result of the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004.
Looks like this is just the follow-through to the reaction of 9/11. Kind of a like a "doing something to show we're doing something" scenario. People who are going to plan terrorist activities will take the effort to fake a passport... unless they're a bunch of morons (maroons? anybody?) who met in prison in NYC.
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Quote:
not to mention, the northern border isn't the problem....what are they doing for the mexican border?
this is the governments way of saying "look we did something" while not doing anything...
i won't be taking my family to see the falls....not for $660 in passports...stupid...
It was probably initiated by the Canadians who are fearful because we do a poor job on our southern border.
I don't blame them.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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not to mention, the northern border isn't the problem....
Are you kiddin' me? 
those filthy Canadians are smuggling good-will and fresh-air across the border everyday!
I hear they are trying to take our jobs too! Think of those poor Mexicans who show up to work at the landscaping company, only to find that those greedy Canandians have locked onto those weed-eaters and lawn-mowers! They ain't lettin' go, Florida!
I'm tellin' ya, locking down the Canadian border is a step in the right direction!
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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This has been in the works for several years, actually... just a bureaucratic reaction to 9/11.
Edit: BTW Canadians have needed a passport to go the States since 2007.
IMO it's a Titanic/deck chairs thing. You can take some measures to stop terrorists, but you won't eradicate it completely no matter what you do.
It's about $90 up here to get a U.S. passport... not a terrible price, but you have to renew it every five years IIRC and for a large family, cost-prohibitive if you wanted to make a day-trip to the U.S. for example.
Last edited by lampdogg; 05/27/09 12:11 PM.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Quote:
Quote:
not to mention, the northern border isn't the problem....what are they doing for the mexican border?
this is the governments way of saying "look we did something" while not doing anything...
i won't be taking my family to see the falls....not for $660 in passports...stupid...
It was probably initiated by the Canadians who are fearful because we do a poor job on our southern border.
I don't blame them.
That's a good point,...
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Actually it was your dept. of homeland security who started it... even George W. had reservations about it.
gmstrong -----------------
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the canadians are afraid of terrorists? or illegals?
i can see it as nothing more than a "look we are doing something" kinda move...
i can liken this to bandaging a patients bleeding knee, when there airway is blocked....thats not the way to save the patient...
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Quote:
Are you kiddin' me?
those filthy Canadians are smuggling good-will and fresh-air across the border everyday!
I hear they are trying to take our jobs too! Think of those poor Mexicans who show up to work at the landscaping company, only to find that those greedy Canandians have locked onto those weed-eaters and lawn-mowers! They ain't lettin' go, Florida!
I'm tellin' ya, locking down the Canadian border is a step in the right direction!
.....smiggling goodwill and fresh-air...lmao 
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Common sense should tell you not to expect common sense from our government. That's just common sense.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Quote:
Quote:
not to mention, the northern border isn't the problem....
Are you kiddin' me?
those filthy Canadians are smuggling good-will and fresh-air across the border everyday!
I hear they are trying to take our jobs too! Think of those poor Mexicans who show up to work at the landscaping company, only to find that those greedy Canandians have locked onto those weed-eaters and lawn-mowers! They ain't lettin' go, Florida!
I'm tellin' ya, locking down the Canadian border is a step in the right direction!
The next thing you know we'll all be saying EH at the end of every sentence. 
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Do you agree it is a good idea for the southern border crossings? Or should a drivers license just be all that is needed?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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this is the governments way of saying "look we did something" while not doing anything...
Could also be that the government doesn't want to offend our hispanic population (legal and illegal) by worrying about the southern borders. That wouldn't be politically correct!
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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If your being sarcastic in your response .. I apologize .. if not .. i need some help .. and i am not being a jerk here .. i would really like to know what it is I am missing .. and seeing as how your from Fort Worth witch is alot closer to the situation than I am ... maybe u know sumptin I don't .. anyone from right on the borders would be even better .. Quote:
First of all, all the illegals from the south know exactly the penalty if a terrorist comes from their border.
and what would that penalty be ... and could u give me an example or two of when it has been enforced .. cause i have no clue ..
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Our best defense is probably the Mexicans themselves...they are going to be the first ones to speak up if someone is posing as one of them who are not.
huh??? .. how does this work .. when exactly do they "blow" them in?? .. in mexico .. as there crossing .... when there here??? .. how exactly again does this work ...
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A drivers licensce is fine for many many reasons ..
1. we have WIDE OPEN BORDERS in Mexico and Canada that anyone can literally just FLOCK ACROSS by the Van or Boat Load ...
2. the bad guys can forge passports all ready ... its harder to do .. but for those that want it done .. its a can of corn ..
3. I didn;t know passports were so damm expensive .. I live a little over an hour from the falls .. I take my 4 nephews there once or twice a year .. Thaks for adding $350 and prolly 2 - 6 hours of my time to do that .. apppreciatte it ...
now if it actually helped .. I'D BE ALL FOR IT .. but it won't help SQUAT ...
U ever crossed the border into the US from Canada ... if u did .. YOU'D KNOW ITS USELESS ...
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I agree, this is ridiculous. We used to take our boat into Canada all the time...either across the lake or on the Detroit river. I can't imagine all of those shoreline establishments asking for a passport. Out west, you can walk into Canada and back just about anywhere on the Montana or North Dakota borders. In Minnesota, you can just paddle in on the boundary waters. Interestingly, last month we had a much rougher time getting back into the states than we had entering Canada at the Ambassador bridge in Windsor. The Canadians just glanced at the docs, counted the heads and said "Have a good day, eh". The US border patrol really grilled us, searched our duty free bags and went over our paperwork with a fine tooth comb before we were let back in. They even made my wives remove their burkas. 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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And your house is not secure, does that mean it's fine to not take any sort of steps to deter even 1 burglar?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Dude .. u either just do not get this or u do not want to accept how DUMB this truely is .. using your analogy .. it would be like .... hmmm .. if I left my front door wide open ... and left all the windows in my house wide open with ladders leading up to them to make for easier access ..... and i also provided lighting at night so the burgalars could see with no problem what so ever ..... BUT I decided i would would stand in my garage at the side door with a shot gun making sure the burgalars didn't get in that way .. pretty intelligent .. and a great analogy ... another post it said it ... if u have a guy with a cut on his finger that is bleeding and U also have him with a clogged airway and hes choking to death .. U decide to bandage the finger and think that will make him fine while ignoring the fact he can't breath ...
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j/c
There are a lot of things I disagree with about the policies established in Washington but I'm not yet inclined to jump aboard the bitching about this minimal inconvenience. Since 9/11 our troops have shouldered the weight of the war on terror and I can't imagine why anyone would bellyache about having to do so little as their part of that war - whether or not they agree with its effectiveness. The points being made sound petty in comparison to what our soldiers are facing by being put in harm's way.
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Your the one getting all in a huff over having to use a passport to LEAVE THE COUNTRY. DUDE!!!
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I think it's absolutely retarded to need a passport to go to Canada and Mexico... which is why I won't be going anytime... well ever. Passport's are a waste of money to have one just in case you decide to run to Windsor, Toronto, etc for the weekend...
#gmstrong
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Whats the difference between going to Windsor Canada or Tijuana Mexico, and going to Mexico City Mexico? It's still another country, so either, you don't require passports to go to either country, or you do.
They don't let you enter Cedar Point, as long as you don't go past the midway for free. You either pay or you don't go.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Like I said, I won't be getting 4 passports just to go to Canada for the weekend.
#gmstrong
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And we thank you for the tax savings on the rest of us, because people that decide that means we can focus more attention to the real threat, and not to the average person crossing for pleasure. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:
and i am not being a jerk here
Just cause you say it don't make it so
Just kidding around.. 
I'm not all that familiar with our border problems other than they aren't tight enough and still allow all sorts of bad guys in.. Holes so big you can drive a truck through them..
But I can't help thinking this is one part of a greater overall plan.. you have to start somewhere and perhaps this is the start.
As someone said, if the bad guys know where the holes are, it's pretty certain, the good guys also know. But given how thin we are stretched at both borders, it's probably impossible to cover every possible entry point.
So what do you do about it? Well, you do what you can I guess. This is one thing that's being done.. But we all have heard about the border patrols on the Mexican border and we've also heard about the hundreds of folks they stop from crossing over into the US..
So, it comes down to,,, you do what you can.
Keep in mind, there are at least two types of folks we want to keep out.. those that just want a job and to make a buck, and those that want to blow something up.
I don't want any illegals in country, but given a choice, I'll take the ones that will work over the ones that will blow something up.
Basically, I don't think this ID thing is a big deal... if I want to go to Canada, I'll get the freaking thing and go.. That simple. It's just not a big deal.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Your the one getting all in a huff over having to use a passport to LEAVE THE COUNTRY.
Actually I'm not .. go read my first couple posts and my point is VERY VERY OBVIOUS ... and it has very little to do with me having to get a passport ... (u may wanna do it with someone that actually has some reading comprehension skills and/or can follow the bouncing ball .. cause your obviously having trouble with it .. ) ...... I even said this in my answer to your first question ..
I could care less about having to show a passport .. that wasn't my point ..
THIS IS NOT STRENGHTENING OUR BORDERS ... not one little bit ..
U guys can spin it anyway U want .. TO ME .. this is 100% about a DUMB ASS POLICY that will SOLVE NOTHING ..
and i know exactly what your going to do .. and it will be BUSH of U when u do it .. but when U do ..... i will just INCLUDE THE ENTIRE POST and u will be back behind the 8 ball ..
this is likely STEP 1 ... *LOL* ... funny stuff ... DUDE ...
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I'm not all that familiar with our border problems
Yet instead of going and educating yourslef even a wee little bit on the subject .. U come in and give your opinion like u have a clue of what the problem actually is ... what a shock ...
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But I can't help thinking this is one part of a greater overall plan.. you have to start somewhere and perhaps this is the start.
Ya .. this brainstorm was hatched in 2003 or so and part of a terrorist and reform act in 2004 .. and so far thats all of the plan they've made public .. hopefully for folks like U and Florida .... they'll unvail the rest of it to us REAL REAL SOON .. 
I feel so so sorry for U dude ... I really do ..
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If your being sarcastic in your response .. I apologize .. if not .. i need some help .. and i am not being a jerk here .. i would really like to know what it is I am missing .. and seeing as how your from Fort Worth witch is alot closer to the situation than I am ... maybe u know sumptin I don't .. anyone from right on the borders would be even better ..
Quote:
First of all, all the illegals from the south know exactly the penalty if a terrorist comes from their border.
and what would that penalty be ... and could u give me an example or two of when it has been enforced .. cause i have no clue ..
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Our best defense is probably the Mexicans themselves...they are going to be the first ones to speak up if someone is posing as one of them who are not.
huh??? .. how does this work .. when exactly do they "blow" them in?? .. in mexico .. as there crossing .... when there here??? .. how exactly again does this work ...
I'm going on a few things....
1. Some of the 9/11 guys made it into our country from Canada, not Mexico.
2. Mexicans, although they have their faults, respect what our country is to them - a way to provide for their families. They know how tough things will be for them to cross if there is a attack that originates from a terrorist crossing the border...just like Mencia said - they are our best border patrol in the perspective that they know if something bad happens then all of a sudden we are going to get a lot more cautious and difficult in regards to watching that border.
3. Canada, for over a decade now, has overlooked several borderline terrorist organizations and have a different position on many things than we do.
Yes, I live in Texas and I am close to this issue. My wife's family is in Mexico.
Mexicans are about as passive of a people (as a whole) as you will find and are just as much against terrorism as we are...I don't know if I can wholeheartedly say that about the French, I mean Canadians.
Over 80% of Mexico's imports go to the US - they have a lot riding on our security as well.
People if you are complaining because you have get a passport...get over it. I agree it can get costly but a passport is necessary if you want to do any travel outside the US. And if we aren't strict on checking them, it just makes it that much easier for a terrorist to sneak in with a Hawaii or another distant state's license.
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OK .. I see your points .. I just don't agree with U ... Quote:
1. Some of the 9/11 guys made it into our country from Canada, not Mexico.
this is true .. and that is why they enacted this DUMB ASS USELESS thing .. but the folks that entered .. will still be able to do the same thing today .. they just need to take one more step and show there passports instead of just there drivers licencses ... WIPPIE DOO ..
it does not even come close to solving the problem ..
Canada is a much better entry point than Mexico for a bunch of reasons ..
They have a big poplulation of folks from those regions .. there gov't is very friendly to letting them in ... its alot more accesible than Mexico and they don't stand out like a sore thumb when there in Canada ...
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2. Mexicans, although they have their faults, respect what our country is to them - a way to provide for their families. They know how tough things will be for them to cross if there is a attack that originates from a terrorist crossing the border...just like Mencia said - they are our best border patrol in the perspective that they know if something bad happens then all of a sudden we are going to get a lot more cautious and difficult in regards to watching that border.
I am sure the Mexicans are as nice and are fine people that care about us .. problem with your above theory is the ones that aren't .. the ones that are coming into the US and kidnapping kids .. the ones that are dealing drugs and generally putting the problems were having at the border on the front pages everyday .. the ones that are having shootouts and killing each other in American border towns .. or just on the Mexican side of the borders ...
well it should be .. but most of our media buries it .. cause Obama wants to give all the illegals amnesty and having whats going on at the border now would not make for good press ..
right now .. Mexico is front and center .. well it should be ..
French Canadians are a different breed .. I'll give u that .. the rest of Canada even hates them .. *L* ..
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 880
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 880 |
You don't think making Passports a SOP for everyone won't make it harder for terrorists to come in when all of those are scanned and barcoded information to analyze? Even after most states don't even communicate or uplink info to one another?
You are comparing your opinion and also VERY isolated incidents to the entire group. There are kidnappings in every major city of the world and nearly every day. Not just in Mexico but yes, more commonly there but also high rates of abduction in other countries as well.
I am using fact - number of attacks that came from someone entering from Mexico - 0
Number of attacks that came from people entering from Canada - at least one.
And I'm attaching it to the support that if making everyone to have passports as a deterent or one smudge harder for a terrorist to get in...I'm all for it.
Every one of the 9/11 terrorists would have stood out in Mexico - first in language and second in that they weren't drinking Corona!
Now, should the passport system be $100 per person? No, that is a service. I think that is what I pay taxes for. Maybe we reduce the cost on passports when we require them in any travels outside the US? There are other solutions but I think you are letting your pocketbook distort the fact that this is a step in the right direction.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
Like I said .. we'll just have to agree to disagree ..
and i never said it was about my pocket book .. or having to get a passport for that matter .. my point has always been what a waste this is ... cause it will NOT HELP SOLVE THE PROBLEM EVEN ONE LITTLE BIT ....
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Quote:
OK .. I see your points .. I just don't agree with U ...
Quote:
and that is why they enacted this DUMB ASS USELESS thing ..
WIPPIE DOO ..
Now these are some classic Diam quotes.
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