DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum CREATION

INTRODUCTION

I first began thinking about creation as a child when my sister did a science project for a science fair. In her project, she tried to reconcile the two books of creation with our present knowledge of science. Her topic was about the length of a day in the seven days of creation according to the first two books of creation in the Bible. I began to think about creation since that time.

Initially, I thought that the idea was a good idea. Something, however, just didn’t seem right about it. The more I looked at it, the more confused I became. The thoughts of creation lingered in my mind since then. There were and are still many notions about our creation.

It seems there are three groups of thought about the story of creation. One group believes that the story of creation is literal. They are the creationists. They believe the books of creation to be absolutely true, a factual account of creation. The real problem with interpreting the Bible literally is that the Word becomes everything. The words themselves become God. That is something Jesus pointed out to the Pharisees regularly. The Pharisees were keepers of the laws. They kept the laws to the point that they became lost in the laws. For example, the Pharisees questioned Jesus when he healed someone on the Sabbath. Jesus pointed out that the laws are very important, but not at the expense of the love of God.

I cannot believe that the accounts of creation in the Bible are literal accounts because our knowledge of our planet and universe showed otherwise. In fact, the more I read the Bible, I come to understand that the Bible should not be interpreted literally. Parts of the Bible are a historical account of the Hebrews, however, much of it is parable. Because much of the Bible is parable the Bible plays a very important role for us as humans. Parables are important because they are theological lessons that can mean many different things to many different people.

The second group seems to think that the books of creation can’t be true because the scientific knowledge of this world completely contradicts it. These people read the Bible. They hear that the Bible is a literal account of the creation of our universe. They try to reconcile the creation accounts with our knowledge of the sciences and mathematics. They find that it really cannot be reconciled. It seems that many of these people just gave up on God. The accounts appeared flawed to them. God can’t be flawed so there can’t be a God. I can’t believe this either because life is too precious to have just been accidental. Life is too perfectly made to have been created by chance.

Finally, there seems to be a third group that just believes without questioning. They have faith that God created them, but they either feel they can never understand God’s gracious plan or they should not question the plan. While this is closer to being the correct option than the first two categories of people, it’s still not correct. I believe God wants us to know about creation. I believe that the more we understand our creation, the closer we will become to the wonderful God that gives us life.

So, I have been struggling with this concept of creation since I was a child. Finally, I have come to the realization that the two accounts of creation in the Bible are not about how the universe was created. The parts of the accounts of creation that describe how the universe was created are incidental. The two accounts of creation in the Bible are most importantly about why the universe was created.

God uses divine inspiration to teach us. God could just tell us directly what we are to do, but how much stronger would we be if we learn by divine inspiration instead. How much better a people would we be if we buy a homeless person a meal because it is the right thing to do instead doing it because the great voice of God commands us to. I believe God’s use of divine inspiration is his tool to make us better and stronger in his love.

That having been said, use of divine inspiration is limited by the person receiving the inspiration. God could have just told the original writers of the two books of creation how the world was created, but how would they understand it? How could a person who has no clue what a single celled organism is understand creation? If God forces the understanding in the person, then God has taken away the free will of the person to accept it. Free will is one of God’s greatest gifts. The choice to do what is right or wrong is one of God’s most clever tools. One who chooses to do what is good because of the sake of its goodness is stronger than one who has no option. One who chooses to do what is just because of the sake of its justice is stronger than one who has no option. One who chooses to do what is right because of the sake of its righteousness is stronger than one who has no option.

So God, in his infinite wisdom, inspired the writers of the two books of creation to write two accounts that are more about why the universe was created than how the universe was created. It seems to me that very few people seem to understand this. They are caught up in the argument of creationism versus evolution. I say they are both correct. Evolution was part of God’s grand plan. Our study of the sciences and the mathematics are not contrary to God. They are in fact the study of God’s methodology of creation of our universe. It is not wrong to know this information. It’s just wrong to study God’s methodology of creation without understanding the moral theology behind it. It is wrong to do something scientific without either understanding the implications of its use or even if we should do it.

Everyday, I see people acting contrary to God’s plan for us. It distresses me greatly because I feel that if people would truly understand the “why” of creation, then maybe people would begin to understand what it is that God needs them to be. For many years now I have been thinking about writing an explanation of creation to that end. Finally, I decided that this notion was so strong in my heart that I had better take action. I did not want to go to heaven someday and have God ask me, “So Michael, why did you not write what I put in your heart? Why did you not help my people?” So I began studying about God through my church.

One day, the notion of writing the explanation as an account of creation was placed in my heart. As you can understand, I was very concerned about this notion. I dismissed the notion right away. I did not want to rewrite the two books of creation. The notion, however, would not go away. So I prayed about it. For several years I prayed about this notion. Finally, an answer was revealed to me. Writing an explanation of creation by writing an account of creation was not rewriting the two books of creation. It does nothing to alter or impair the two books of creation. It is simply another explanation of creation in the form of a parable. It is just another supplement to our knowledge of creation. It is simply meant to help us become closer to God. If God wants this writing to help people understand creation better then people will accept it as an appropriate and good explanation. If it is not an appropriate and good explanation of creation, then it will not be accepted as such.

That is the nature of divine inspiration. First someone is inspired to do something, say something or write something. Then something else must happen. People who see, hear or read it must be inspired to believe that God is the reason for the event, saying or writing happening. God inspires us to act in very simple ways everyday. When someone who is hungry asks us as we enter a fast food restaurant to buy a meal, we must understand that it is God inspiring us to help one of his children.

My only hope is that this writing will help people come closer to God. I hope that this writing will help people understand their role in God’s creation. I have prayed very much about this writing. Toward that goal, I have come up with the following prayer. I will share it with you below in hopes that it will help put God’s inspiration in clearer perspective in your hearts. God Bless.


“God let my will be what you need it to be, not what I want it to be.
God let my words be what you need them to be, not what I want them to be.
God let my strength come from your love, not from my selfish desires.
God help me accept your love freely and completely.
God help me be your love for all your creation.
God help me be part of the body of God.”



CREATION


GOD IS LOVE. WE ARE CREATED IN HIS IMAGE.

This is the story of creation. It is not the story of how the earth was created. It is the story of why the earth was created. In the beginning of humanity, God created the earth. God created the earth for humanity. God created the earth because of humanity. God created the earth for the redemption of humanity.

God created the earth because God is love. We are to accept God into our souls. We are to be vessels of love. We are not to be vessels to store God’s love. We are to be pouring vessels. We are to accept love into our souls and allow it to flow though us to all of creation. We are to be conduits of God to our neighbors. We are to become part of the body of God. We are to be the hands of God. This was why we were created.

We, however, did not accept God freely and completely. We did not see in God what we wanted. We did not strive to find what we need in God. We strove to find what we wanted in ourselves. We believed in ourselves over God. We loved God, but we loved ourselves all the greater. We chose to do what we wanted to do instead of doing what God needs us to do. We chose to be our own God instead of allowing God to be our God.

Before God created humanity, God created all the heavenly beings, all the angels and all the seraphim and cherubim. Because of God’s love, they were created. With God’s love they were created. For the purpose of sharing God’s love, they were created. They are part of the body of God. God is part of them. They are the legs of God. They are the messengers of God.

When they were created, God spoke to each and every angel. God said, “I am Love. All that is Love is me. All that I am is Love. I have created you in my image, and so, you too are to be Love. I offer myself to you. I offer myself unconditionally. I give you all that I am. You need do nothing to earn my Love, for I am here for you. I give you the gift of free will, for one who chooses to do my will is greater than one with no choice. Will you accept me? Will you take me freely and wholly into your hearts? Will you fill your souls with me? Will you open your souls to all of creation? Will you offer yourselves to all of creation as I have offered myself to you? Will you be a conduit between all of creation and myself? Will you be part of the body of God? ”

The angels accepted God into their hearts. Immediately, the angels were filled with the Holy Spirit. The Angels responded, “Blessed be God. God is Love. All that is Love is God. All that is God is Love. We have done nothing to earn this Love, yet God freely and unconditionally gives of himself to us. Oh God, we love you. Please always fill our hearts with your Love. So as you give of yourself unto us, so too do we give of ourselves unto all of creation. We long to be part of your body. We will do as we are told.”

So it happened that the angels became part of the body of God. They became the heavenly hosts of God. The heavenly hosts do the will of God. The will of God is Love. The heavenly hosts became the messengers of God. The heavenly hosts became the messengers of Love.
God then created humanity. With God’s love they were created. For the purpose of sharing God’s love, they were created. They were to be part of the body of God, for God is part of them. They are to be the hands of God. They are to do the will of God.

When they were created, God spoke to each and every person. God said, “I am Love. All that is Love is me. All that I am is Love. I have created you in my image, and so, you to are to be Love. I offer myself to you. I offer myself unconditionally. I give you all that I am. You need do nothing to earn my Love, for I am here for you. I give you the gift of free will, for one who chooses to do my will is greater than one with no choice. Will you accept me? Will you take me freely and wholly into your hearts? Will you fill your souls with me? Will you open your souls to all of creation? Will you offer yourselves to all of creation as I have offered myself to you? Will you be a conduit between all of creation and myself? Will you be part of the body of God? ”

All of humanity responded to God. Each and every person said, “Lord, we love you, but what you ask of us is too difficult. You are our light, but the way is too hard. Lord, you are the great teacher, but we do not understand why we must act in this way. Lord, you are love, and we want to keep that love, not give it away. Lord, you give us your love unconditionally, but can I trust my neighbor when I give of myself unconditionally? Lord, you gave us your love without needing to earn it, but what has my neighbor done to earn my love? Lord, we accept you into our hearts, and that is a sign of my prominence and status to my neighbor. Lord, we will fill our souls with as much of your love as we feel we need. We want to be part of the body of God, but surely, we can think of a better way.” And so, all of humanity responded to God. All of humanity denied God in their hearts. All but one denied God in their hearts.

With those words, God was full of sorrow. The body of God was incomplete. While his people did love him, they did not trust that the reward in doing God’s will is greater than anything that could be achieved by themselves. While his people did love God, they were dismayed because they saw the wonder of spreading God’s love as a chore. While his people did love God, they did not understand the incredible joy in the simple act of giving God’s love unconditionally throughout all of creation.

God is Love. All that is Love is God. God loves his children. God loves his children unconditionally, but humanity is not ready for the kingdom of God. Humanity denied God’s love into their soul freely and completely. Because of humanity’s selfish act, their original sin, God denied humanity access to the Kingdom of God. Because of humanity’s original sin, they were denied access to Eden.

God is Love. All that is Love is God. God loves his children. God loves his children unconditionally, so God wants his children to be able to redeem themselves. God said, “Your denial of my love freely and completely fills me with sorrow, yet my love for you grows even stronger. I give you the gift of free will, for one who chooses to do my will is greater than one with no choice. I will pour forth my love upon you. By divine inspiration I will teach you. My inspiration will guide you. Listen to my inspiration in the humblest among you. Listen to my inspiration in the requests of the poor. Listen to my inspiration when help is needed. Listen to my inspiration in your hearts. If you will listen to the simplest and poorest among you, then you will be listening to me.”

“You cannot stay in Eden, because you have not accepted your role in the body of God,” said the Lord. “I love you now, more than ever. My love for you is so great, I give you the opportunity for redemption. I will create for you a place to redeem yourselves. I will give you the opportunity to learn to accept my love freely and completely. I will give you a place where you can learn how to trust that my word is the word of life and truth. I give you one rule. Love your God with all you heart, all your strength and all your soul. You do that by loving your neighbor. Love your neighbor with the same love that I give to you, with unconditional love.”

“I will create a place wholly and completely different from the Kingdom of God. I will create a universe for you. Because you choose your will over my will, I will create a universe for you. Because you believe your will can make a greater difference than my love, I will create a universe for you. This universe will not be like the Kingdom of God. It will have its own separate boundaries, rules, and parameters.”

“In this universe I will create a world for you. Over this world you will have dominion. I will give you the gift of control over your world. I will give you the gift of knowledge of this world. You will call this knowledge the sciences and mathematics. You will study this knowledge for it is the study of my creation of this universe. I will give you this gift to allow you the opportunity to exercise the gift using the love of God as a guide. I give you the free will to choose how you use this gift. You will have dominion over this world, therefore, your decisions on how to use this gift of knowledge will be for either the good of your world, or for the benefit of yourselves. I give you this gift of knowledge so you will learn that use of it for the benefit of yourselves will only result in detriment to your world. I give you this gift of knowledge so that you will learn that using it with my love will result in benefit to your world. I give you this gift of knowledge so that you will learn to accept my love freely and completely.”

“As infants you will be placed on this world. Limited in knowledge and form will you begin life in your world. To help you understand, I will give you a form unlike your soul. Limited in duration and ability will your mortal body be. From the dust of the world I will create your mortal body because this form exists only for this world. Your mortal body will be created from the dust of this world so you will understand that this mortal life is but for the redemption of your soul. The redemption of your soul will make you one with the body of God. Limited in duration and frail will be your mortal bodies compared to your soul. Limited in duration and frail will your mortal bodies be so that you may learn that through the spread of my love and compassion you will make your world better. If you strive to find what you want in yourselves instead of freely and completely accepting my love in your hearts, the limited duration and frailty of your mortal bodies will make you search in vain for peace in your soul, the peace that I have offered you since your creation.”

“To help you understand that my love is the truth and the life, I will place in you differences of form. To help you learn to freely and completely accept my love, I will make your appearances different in colors, sizes and shapes. If you believe you can create a better way instead of trusting in the love of God, then you will only be able to see the differences between you. If you accept your way over Gods Love, then your hatred of these differences of appearance will forever prohibit your soul from becoming part of the body of God. If you accept my love, you will see past these differences. If you fill your souls with my love, you will understand you are all similarly rooted in the body of God. My love for you is so great, I give you the opportunity for redemption. Redemption only requires you accept my love freely and completely and spread my love to all despite the differences between you. When you freely and completely accept my love, then you will no longer be different because you will be part of the body of God.”

“I will spread you across your world so that you will grow separately from each other. This separation will cause you to have differences in customs and beliefs of me. Because of this separation, you will grow in your knowledge of me independently. This separation will cause differences in your knowledge of me. Your customs and beliefs of me will be unlike that of each other. Because you strive to find what you want in yourselves, these differences will be an obstacle for you. Because of your belief in your abilities over the love of God, you will only see the difference between you and your fellow person’s customs and beliefs of me. If you accept your way over Gods Love, then your hatred of these differences will forever prohibit your soul from becoming part of the body of God. If you accept my love, you will see past these differences. If you fill your souls with my love, you will understand you are all similarly rooted in the body of God. My love for you is so great that I give you the opportunity for redemption. Redemption only requires you accept my love freely and completely and spread my love to all despite the differences between you. When you freely and completely accept my love, then you will no longer be different because you will be part of the body of God. ”

“You will freely and completely accept God into your hearts when you do what is good, just and righteous. You will freely and completely accept God into your hearts when you do what is good, just and righteous, but not for a reward. You will freely and completely accept God into your hearts when you do what is good, just and righteous, but not because you fear the consequences. You will freely and completely accept God into your hearts when you do what is good because of the sake of its goodness. You will freely and completely accept God into your hearts when you do what is just because of justice’s sake. You will freely and completely accept God into your hearts when you do what is righteous because of the righteous acts you do instead of doing self righteous acts.”

“When you do this, then I will be freely and completely in your hearts. You will then be freely and completely part of the body of God. Then my love will be complete in you.”

THE SHELL

After God had finished instructing humanity, God created the mortal universe. From nothing God created the mortal universe, for God needs nothing to create it. God spoke the word, and the word became life. With all the majesty that is God, the mortal universe was created. With love, God created the mortal universe.
God created a vast void. From nothing he created it. Limited is this void, though it appear limitless. In this void God would create the mortal universe. Thus evening came, and morning followed - the first day.

Then God said, “Let there be the stars and galaxies.” God spoke the word, and the word became life. Through millions upon millions of years, the galaxies formed from the void which had God created from nothing. Through the millions upon millions of years the galaxies were formed so that God’s majesty, patience and strength of love may be demonstrated. Slowly from the void came the life of the galaxies. In each galaxy, God created the solar systems. Evening came and morning followed - the second day.

Then God created a solar system with a planet fit for life. God spoke the word, and the word became life. Over the millions of years God formed the planet so that God’s majesty, patience and strength of love may be demonstrated. With love God created the planet. From the void, which God created from nothing, God created the planet. “Water will cover the planet,” said God. Thus the whole of the planet was covered in water. Then God said, “I will draw up the land so that life may exist for my beloved humanity.” Thus land formed from under the oceans. Through Gods majesty, patience and strength of love the land was pushed up from under the oceans. Evening came and morning followed - the third day.

When the land had separated the oceans, God then created life on the planet. He but touched the water and life was created. With a simple breath of life, God created life on the planet. God spoke the word, and the word became life. With that, God created a single cell. In that single cell God placed all of mortal life. From that single cell will come all plants and creatures of this mortal world. Over the millions of years God formed the life of this planet so that God’s majesty, patience and strength of love may be demonstrated. God saw how good it was. Evening came and morning followed - the fourth day.

God created all the plants of the oceans and the land from the simple beginnings of life on the planet. These plants would fill the planet and provide an atmosphere suitable for humanity. All the creatures of the seas would come from the simple beginnings of life on the planet. All the living creatures of the land, the amphibians, the dinosaurs, the modern reptiles, the birds and the mammals, would come from the simple beginnings of life on the planet. Over the millions of years the plants and animals would evolve so that God’s majesty, patience and strength of love may be demonstrated. God saw how good it was, and God blessed them by saying, “Be fertile, multiply and fill the earth.” Evening came and morning followed - the fifth day.

God allowed the animals to evolve until a creature was formed that was suitable for the human soul. God looked at the creature and said, “This is a suitable shell for the human soul. I have created humanity in my image. In the image of love I have created humanity. Humanity has not freely and completely accepted my love into their souls, so I shall place their souls in the mortal body that is unlike my image. On this planet shall be the home for humanity’s mortal bodies. Humanity cannot reside here in their immortal form for they have not accepted my love freely and completely. They shall be placed here in a form that is limited in duration and ability so that they can understand that through my love all can be accomplished.” With those words, God touched the creature and it was transformed. Thus God created humanity’s mortal bodies. God created humanity in his image. In the divine image he created them. Male and female he created them. God blessed them, saying, “Be fertile and multiply; fill the earth and through my love transform it into my kingdom of heaven on earth.” And so it happened. God looked at everything he had made, and he found it very good. Evening came and morning followed - the sixth day.

Thus the heavens and the earth and all there array were completed. Since on the seventh day God was finished with the work he had been doing, he rested on the seventh day from all the work he had undertaken. So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work he had done in creation.

Such is the story of the heavens and the earth at their creation.

Any feedback? I'm interested to see what people feel about this.

Did you author this, Tenn?

I did write this. It's been burning in my heart for some time now, and I felt I must write it. I have given it to the U. S. Conference of Catholic Bishops for their review.

I feel it is very important because it is meant to help us understand WHY we were created, not HOW we were created.

Nice job, good luck, and stay humble.

Thanks. I've always understood the two stories of creation in the Bible to be parables about creation. They are about why the world was created not how the world was created. I've never understood the conflict between the maths/sciences and God. Really, all that the maths and sciences are is a study of God's methodology of creation of the universe.

I have often said that I do not consider Genesis to be literal.

Why?

Well, for starters, how does one measure a "day" before anything is created? How does one measure a day before there is an earth?

The 2nd is that there is no way that anyone would comprehend "40 billion years ago" in early and pre-Biblical times. We, as a much more sophisticated society, can barely comprehend it today. People living in huts and barely farming would have no comprehension whatsoever. The creation was put into understandable terms.

I guess my belief fall more in line with unitarian philosphy.

No, I don't accept the words written in the bible as literal truth.

But somewhere, someplace, a long time ago, a force created the universe, and that force had to the force of a God. So is the force that gives mankind his conscience.

I'm Catholic. I go to church every Sunday and have a strong faith. Yet, I know very few people who literally interpret the story of creation. I definitely don't, and take the majority of the old testament with a grain of salt. I think that the old testament is similar to Jesus' parables: They are stories told to teach you something. Unfortunately, we are way too dumb to understand the meanings behind them.

I interpret the Bible literally, unless the type of literature is obviously symbolic. The historical books, the epistles, and the Gospels ( except parables) I take literally. Apocalypses, parables, and some poetry are largely symbolic, but are are using symbols to demonstrate literal realities, so while the language is symbolic, the things they represent are real.

That said, I interpret the Genesis account of creation as literal. In the post I am replying to, the question was asked, " how could you measure a day before anything was created?" , which is a good question. I would answer that on day 1, God created light, and separated it from darkness. That composed the first day. Darkness first, then light. When the night came again, it was the beginning of the second day. If you notice, the people in the Bible did not view a day as dawn to dawn, but evening to evening.

The light that God created on day 1 was not sunlight, it was light from some other source. ( probably God the Son Himself, as He is said to be the light of Heaven anyway). It is possible that the light filled the entire earth, not limited by the rotation of the earth, though that's not to say the earth wasnt rotating. When God created the sun on the fourth day, nights and days as we know them began, ie day and night caused by the earth in relation to the sun.

"and God said, " Let there be light, and it was so. And God divided the Light from the darkness, and He called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night... the evening and the morning were the first day.

I also believe the days in Genesis are literal days. Nothing is impossible with God.

QUOTE I cannot believe that the accounts of creation in the Bible are literal accounts because our knowledge of our planet and universe showed otherwise...QUOTE

Interesting post. I enjoyed your writing. I especially liked how you focussed on Why and not How we were created. That's a good starting point. While I think that the Why is much more important than the How, I still think the how is important for reasons I will state below.

First, I just wanted to ask, what knowledge of our planet and universe show that the Creation account is not literal. There are a growing number of Creationist and Intelligent Design scientists out there.

The biggest argument I have seen are the apparent age of the earth, and the fossil record. I believe the appearance of age can be answered very simple. According to the Bible, God created everything with the appearance of age. He did not create man as an embroyo or an infant, but it seems as a full grown adult. He did not create an egg but a chicken. The earth brought forth vegetation in one day, so the normal process of growing was sped up to take one day, instead of hundreds of years for trees for example. That means that trees were created with rings showing they were hundreds of years old, although they were only 1 day old. In the same way, the entire universe was created with the appearance of age, full grown so to speak.

I am not writing this to focus on the creation vs evolution debate, but to focus on the veracity of the Bible. If we don't believe that the creation account is real, what about the atoning death of Jesus, His Ressurrection from the dead, Life after Death, etc. Are these to be taken literally or symbollically? The lines of what is literal and what is typical need to be clear to avoid confusion.

Why were we created? To walk with and love God, and by extension, to love one another. Sin has not only marred but destroyed our capability to truly love God rightly, and we do not love fellow man as we should. Jesus came to restore our walk with God and restore our love by His Death, Burial, Ressurection, Ascension, and sending of the Holy Spirit to those who believe.

This is the central message of the Bible.

God Bless

nice post tenn...

i'm not a big fan of religion...because religion was created by man...

but i do believe in a higher power....something did all this....its too organized, and structured to have come from nothing....

i break it down real simple...there is a God...i don't understand him....he gave me free will....

I can do with it what i choose.....i can do good....or evil....

when i do good....it feels good....when i act poorly...the consequences make me feel bad

when i feel good....i'm in heaven

when i do wrong....i'm in hell...

Each of these propositions are both possible and logical. For example, the sun is not the only source of light in the universe, and if you believe in a literal 6 day creation, like I do, the plants would only have to live 1 day without sunlight. Also, the Bible says that Adam was created a fully devoloped man, not an embroyo or an infant, so Adam was created with the appearance of age. Adam had hair, teeth, fingernails, etc, so if Adam was created with the appearance of age, why couldnt plants, trees, animals, rock strata, stars, etc. be likewise.

Maybe God in His infinite power did something in six days that would have taken random chance hundreds of zillions of years to do, if ever. The statistical improbability of even a human eye being formed by random chance without intelligent design is staggering, mind blowing to say the least. How about DNA, or even an egg. The more we study these things, the more marvelous and wonderful we find them to be. The universe declares the existence of God.

DraftDay, The THEORY of evolution does not offer conclusive proof either.

I'm not going to debate the specifics here (we can rehash the other thread if you want)...but everything draftdayz is arguing is contained in your own sentence:

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and if you believe in a literal 6 day creation, like I do, the plants would only have to live 1 day without sunlight.

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That's going to be my only post on this thread....

Good post Tenndawg

~Lyuokdea

I know what you are inferring, but I was not trying to offer proof for creation, I was merely showing that argument for creation is a valid, logical argument, when you take the Bible account as a whole. As I said before, Creation is accepted by Faith, but that faith is rational and logically sound. There is no evidence to disprove creation. Creation and evolution are both belief systems. These are my only points.

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if your thread turns into a literalist debate, it's my fault and I apologize

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I don't think there is any need to apologize. The well written thoughts of Tenn could expand into a diverse and hopefully rich discussion. I am interested in others thoughts.

I think I'm probably repeating Tenn (and others), but Genesis is a prime example of many chapters of the Bible since the author is only giving his interpretation of the accounts. Indeed women would apparently be subordinate to men by virtue of various scripture, but I have always felt that one needs to consider the culture that the scripture was written in.

My belief is that God is an entity of infinite wisdom and love that we simply cannot fully comprehend. We are not whole enough. That probably sounds like it came from a pulpit somewhere, but it's the best way that I can describe it. Indeed how does one describe what they do not completely know, but have Faith in?

Thanks for the imput. I've decided I dont want to turn this into a debate either. I just wanted to share what I believe, and I certainly don't argue beliefs, so let's just agree to disagree. It was not my desire to debate, but to share what I believe, and my view on the subject. If we want to debate this issue, we should do it on another thread

God is good all the time.

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God is good all the time.

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No he isn't. In the old testament he demands and/or condones ritual human sacrifice, rape, murder, and slavery...on many occasions.

Either god is not good all the time, those evils are called good when god commands them, those evils were good at the time, or the Old Testament was written by Israelites as an attempt at social ethics.


Edit: I'm sorry TENN I completely forgot the first part

I thought your post was very well written. Will you let us know how the submission goes?

God is.

That's all.

He's beyond mere "good" and "evil". These are concepts for the human consciousness and experience. God has no such rules or limitations upon Him. God is. He is everything, and everyone, and everywhere at every time.

I appreciate this response

I am getting a lot of responses to what I said, but I am unable to answer them right now because I have to get to work, so I'll get back later.

Shalom

WOW, there are alot more responses than I expected. The responses are wonderful because talking about and even debating God means that God is now closer to our hearts. I just want everyone to remember that God is love and anything that is not love is not God. Therefore anger is not God, so lets just keep that in mind as we are discussing our great Lord.


La Brown Fan,

Thanks for the insight.


You said: "I am not writing this to focus on the creation vs evolution debate, but to focus on the veracity of the Bible. If we don't believe that the creation account is real, what about the atoning death of Jesus, His Ressurrection from the dead, Life after Death, etc. Are these to be taken literally or symbollically? The lines of what is literal and what is typical need to be clear to avoid confusion. "

I don't see that viewing the story of creation as a parable questions the veracity of the Bible. The Bible is not a factual historical account of the world. It is a book full of very important stories that have very important moral theological meanings and cultural values to guide us in our life. The Bible is inspired word of God, but the perceived "factual content" of the Bible is not what is inspired. What is the inspired word of God is what it means to us as a people of God. What is important is the morals, values and ideals the Bible inspires IN US.